WANTED: 100% truthful, accurate TCO for a new ST3

[SWriverstone]

In light of the recent loss of Holly's cherished 748, she's agonizing over whether or not to buy another Duc. She's decided she doesn't need another superbike...and doesn't want a Monster...so she's looking at an ST3.

I keep hearing that Total Cost of Ownership for an ST3 (and perhaps Ducatis in general) is less now than it was 5 or 10 years ago...but is it REALLY? Don't forget---we've already owned a Duc (the 748) and the TCO for that bike was significantly higher than a Jap bike (and it was well-cared for).

As Duc owners, we already know about "soul," "heart," blah-blah, yada-yada. And we agree with that! What we're looking for now is UNEMOTIONAL, unbiased, strictly-dollars-and-cents numbers on how much owners of recent-year-model ST bikes have had to spend on maintenance...as well as general reliability (e.g. what little things have broken or gone bad, etc.)

Thanks!
Scott

PS - I just noticed the other thread about Duc dealers (in essence) refusing to admit that the bikes don't need as much labor time or maintenance and still gouging owners on service and labor. This is exactly the type of thing that's got us wondering if a Duc is a good financial choice now? (Yes, it's a good emotional choice...but alas, we've got to consider the financial side too!)

[st ryder]

In light of the recent loss of Holly's cherished 748, she's agonizing over whether or not to buy another Duc. She's decided she doesn't need another superbike...and doesn't want a Monster...so she's looking at an ST3.

I keep hearing that Total Cost of Ownership for an ST3 (and perhaps Ducatis in general) is less now than it was 5 or 10 years ago...but is it REALLY? Don't forget---we've already owned a Duc (the 748) and the TCO for that bike was significantly higher than a Jap bike (and it was well-cared for).

As Duc owners, we already know about "soul," "heart," blah-blah, yada-yada. And we agree with that! What we're looking for now is UNEMOTIONAL, unbiased, strictly-dollars-and-cents numbers on how much owners of recent-year-model ST bikes have had to spend on maintenance...as well as general reliability (e.g. what little things have broken or gone bad, etc.)

Thanks!
Scott

There is no 1, final answer/figure re total ownership cost. If you are not prepared to spend more for maintenance than on a Japanese bike, then buy Japanese. Ducatis cost more on average to maintain regardless of who does it, IE owner or shop. If this is your priority, buy a Japanese bike, and try to be happy with it, knowing you're spending less on maintenance. Ducati owners would rather spend the extra for the "blah blah blah" of Ducati, than own the "blah blah blah" of Japanese bikes.  

So Far, I've spent 1300.00 cdn at the dealer in two seasons. This year, I expect to spend approx 5-600.00 at the dealer, that would make approx  1850.00 CDN over three seasons and 18K by the end of this season spent at the dealership. Mind you, that includes taxes so reduce by approx 15%, and you have the actual costs, approx 1600.00. IE Thats approx 445.00 plus tax cdn a year, plus my own oil/filter changes, at approx 2500 miles,  (my choice) add, hmm, 400.00 over three years? Add tires, suspesnion upgrades, manuals, tools, yadda, blah blah blah and like I said, there's not 1 answer. But if 600.00 cdn a year at a dealership is too much, buy a Japanese bike, and keep the change. But, what price joy? Oh ya, that's blah blah blah...

Good luck as whatever she buys will be the best bike for *her* and that's all that matters in the end.  

[baldheadeddork]

A 2007 ST3 will cost a lot less to maintain than her old 748, and from everything I've heard the newer ST's are as reliable as an axe. The only problem I've seen on the Ducati.ms boards for the ST3 is surging on some bikes because of the closed loop (O2 sensor) emissions control system on the new bikes. It is very fussy about aftermarket exhausts.

About the dealer response to the new schedule...that's something you'll have to ask your shop about. The first service on all 2007 models is supposed to be an oil change, clutch and brake fluid check, chain adjustment and a quick test ride, which the factory says should take one hour. The "rip off" is that some dealers are adding in belt inspections, EFI inspections and the such, to push the time needed to up to 3.5 hours. The time between valve lash adjustments has also been increased from 6k to 7.5k - no word yet if dealers are trying to oversell that, too.

I think the best way to handle this is to address it with the service manager of the dealer when you're negotiating the deal for the bike. Talk to him with the sales person there and ask about their service policies. If they give you the song and dance that some dealers are apparently doing - walk away. I personally will not buy from a dealer who screws around on this new service schedule. I want a Hyper so bad it makes my teeth hurt, but if none of the three shops in my area are following the new program I'll buy something else.

[atypical1]

My Multi has has had pretty cheap maint costs so far. I am not the best at being timely on my services but I do get in for two a year. $500 for one and $700 for the other (roughly). The 2v motors are simpler though but my valves have only been checked and not adjusted. I had the recall for the valve guides at 6k and it has run perfect since then (I am at 20k now after 1.5 years of ownership).

I do change my own oil every 3k or so and I tend to burn through tires at a pretty good pace  but both of those would happen regardless of brand of bike.

I think that overall cost of ownership could very well be more for a Duc than for a Japanese bike. Some of that is because there are not that many Duc dealers so the competition is not that strong. I am really lucky to have an outstanding dealer near me so I don't feel that cost.

OTOH, maint cost is less important to me than having a unique bike. I have never really enjoyed Japanese bikes which means I tend not to keep them. The Duc I am going to ride for a long, long time. But different factors drive different people. If she is weighing the cost of ownership as a big driver for her decision then she should probably just buy a Honda and be done with it.

good luck whatever the decision and post pics of her new bike!
james

[wvrider]

Scott,
As you know I have an ST2. The cost of ownership of THIS model has been extremely low. Valves have rarely needed any adjustment (I think 4 shims in 35k miles) and the cost of service has been pretty reasonable (about $600 for the 12k services which are the majors, not sure but I think the new interval is 15k). The also give you a two year warranty I think. Recently I did have my tank seam give (which I just had welded) which might have cost me $1700 for new Italian metalwork but that was a fluke (cost me $120 for the welders labor and now a little paint). Otherwise its been rock solid. The ST3....dunno...but it "should" be a very reasonable bike to live with. Having a good dealer nearby is a plus for a Ducati though so investigate that angle.

Phil

[garry]

Just curious, and slightly off-topic, but has Holly ridden the new Multistrada? I demo'd a 2006 MTS "S" and ST3 "S" back to back and thought the MTS was the more nimble (and fun) bike. Also, I think my local Duc dealer (European Motorsport in Wexford, PA) has some deals available on 2006/leftover ST3 (I think) and regular MTS. Call the shop and ask for Lee.

[marc11]

TCO depends a lot on three factors:

1) How many miles per year you plan to ride the bike - Somone can argue this has no bearing on TCO, but I feel it does when it comes to bikes, since, in general when we think TCO we think TCO PER RIDING SEASON.  Someone who ride 20k per year may want to look at a bike with much longer service intervals than someone who rides 4k per year.

2) How much work you want to do yourself - If you can perform the basics, oil, brake/clutch, coolant, air/fuel filter changes you can lower your service costs by as much as $300 a year.

3) Service intervals - Ducati increased the valve check specs on all 2007 Ducs from every 6k to 7.5k and belt changes from 12k to 15k, they made no changes to the parts, which tells me Ducs of just a few years ago could go this distance.  (by a few years I am talking 2003 and up at least).  I have confirmed this with my dealer who basically talked me out of my last 6k service and said to bring it in with 9 ot 10k on the clocks for the valves at 18k fo the belts.

My service intervals are valves at 9k and belts at 18k, and I would go longer if need be without worry.  But that is me on my bike, everyone has to find that comfort zone.

My last 12k service as a reference point ran me just about $850 IIRC which included the following services:

Valve Check
New Belts
Replaced Coolant
New plugs
Oil/Filter Change with Mobil 1
New air filter
New fuel filter
Clutch and brake fluid change
Synch the TB's

Now, had, changed my own fluids and filters I could have cut this by about $300.  So, for me, I am looking at about $300 every 9k and $500 evey 18k for valves and belts.  But this will depend on your dealer and the dealer rates.  I just found out a well known Ducati tech opened his own shop locally, so I plan to use him, which should cut these costs even more.

Are Ducs more to maintain than may other bikes, yes, are they as expensive as you may hear?  Well, that depends on you, your abilities, your chosen service intervals and your dealer.

[keystonejenks]

  What happened to the 748? I'm so out of touch.

[SWriverstone]

  What happened to the 748? I'm so out of touch.

Hi JJ—alas, the 748 is no more.   You can read all about it here...
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,8998.0.html

Scott

[atadaskew]

Don't know if this helps but if you can find an independant Duc garage that is reliable/recommended by other owners.  In Socal (not that that's any use to you but as an eg) I go to Scott Waters of Motoservizio in Signal Hill.  He is by far the best Duc mechanic around and so has no need to advertise.  Peeps hear about him via word of mouth.  For a service that all the local dealers charge $1100 for, he charges about $500 (6K service on a 4v motor).  It really is the dealers that are screwing Ducati.

[RickC1957]

Scott tell Holly that if she buys/brings her ST3 where Vivid bought/brings her ST3 for service....it will be super expensive Sorry Anna...those guys are idiots! The cost of ownership on my ST3 has been very,very low...the 992 motor is bullet proof in my opinion. I did the 600 mile service at 1200 miles....I was riding...sorry. I changed the oil, looked at the the bike and said "yep it's a ST3"   The 6000 mile service...I did at @ 10,000 miles...yep changed the oil...checked the vavles...hmmm close enough, belts got changed at almost 19,000 miles....that cost a little money...about $400. Then at @23,000 miles the total cost of owneship skyrocketed...F__K! Then things got really expensive Teaches me for trying to ride 750 miles on 4 hours of sleep....opphs feel asleep at around @70 MPH....freaking brake leveler...160, right hand mirror 150, right hand plastic @2000, right hard bag 400, replaced the stock exhaust with Remus cans $700, new helmet and leathers $900. So the ST3 is super expensive because it has the best saddle in the world, and you can and will fall asleep. Also the ST3 crashes really well, hard luggage acts like very expensive frame sliders, picked myself up, checked the bike out...rode the 550 miles home.

[marc11]

 

Man, Ducati's suck!  I bet you waited 9 months for those parts and had to fly to Italy to get them too, right?  And when you got there someone told you, that someone said, they knew a guy, who dated a girl, who heard from the supermarket checkout clerk that your parts weren't being made anymore, right?

[keystonejenks]

Hi JJ—alas, the 748 is no more.   You can read all about it here...
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,8998.0.html

Scott

Man, I totally missed that. I'm glad everybody is okay. WOW.

[Mr. Squidward]

 Also the ST3 crashes really well, hard luggage acts like very expensive frame sliders, picked myself up, checked the bike out...rode the 550 miles home.

Sounds like you should of got a bed for the night.  

[RickC1957]

Sounds like you should of got a bed for the night.  

Yep Anna's biggest complaint when I tour with her is I push too hard when the group is tired and fatigued. I have this silly mental block...if the route says we have 750 miles to ride...I ride it no matter how exhausted I am....she has seen me doze off when riding to ESTN in 05.....this time I didn't dodge the bullet Live and learn

[RickC1957]

 

Man, Ducati's suck!  I bet you waited 9 months for those parts and had to fly to Italy to get them too, right?  And when you got there someone told you, that someone said, they knew a guy, who dated a girl, who heard from the supermarket checkout clerk that your parts weren't being made anymore, right?

Actually that has improved greatly... I know a guy who crashed a 1098 tri color....they had parts in 3 days! But most the time....a week to 10 days in the Chicagolalalalaland area