Bike dilemma: the upright position is just better, I think...

[SWriverstone]

My first bike was a VFR. I've put 16K miles on it and think it's a fantastic bike.

Six months later, I bought a KLR, and did a 5,000-mile tour on it. I realized on that tour that I liked the upright riding position of the KLR more than the sportbike position (or somewhat moderated sportbike position) of the VFR. For me, it's just more comfortable, period. I like having less weight on my hands, and I like being able to rotate and look around more easily. (I have a strong back from years of kayaking, so sitting upright with more weight on my back/butt has never been an issue for me.)

So that's the situation. I love my VFR...but I'm just feeling more and more like it's just not "the" bike for me. I'm thinking I'd be happier on a big upright bike with the power and comfort for long-distance touring.

I've been fixating on the V-Strom, because it's really the only non-expensive, non-European big upright bike out there. I'd love to have a BMW GS1200 or a Multistrada or a Triumph Tiger...but I'm 100% sold on Japanese reliability and low cost of maintenance.

Just thoughts. Any other thoughts?

Scott

[st2sam]

My thoughts   , OK.......
The BIG "V-STROM", it's you all the way Scott.

[garry]

Comfort is very subjective. On my recent trip to ESTN, I had more butt/back aches on the Wee Strom than I ever do on my sportbike. Could be the weird bend of the bars, which I plan to address shortly. My extreme lower back gets achier on the Wee Strom too. I suspect that's because the Strom doesn't let me put weight on my legs as easily as the sportbike, so my butt takes more of the weight. It's either sit (in exactly one position) or stand up on the Strom. I can move around more on the sportbike which helps a lot I think. FWIW, I have the Suzuki gel seat on the 650 which adds an inch of height (makes it the same height as the 1000) and sometimes use a sheepskin seat pad on it too. I have a sheepskin pad for the sportbike too.

I took the sportbike out for a 350+ mile day with no stops except for gas (skipped lunch, my bad) and felt fine when I got off the bike 8.5 hours later.

All that said, both bikes are good for full days on the road (12 hours). I might be a bit achy when I'm done for the day, but within a half hour of walking around I feel fine and don't hurt the next day, so I guess that counts as reasonably comfy in the big scheme of things.

[servicerifle]

I know you're concerned about durability, but you really owe it to yourself to try the new Tiger.  The Sprints are doing great and a great deal of the meat of the Tiger is Sprint, with an upgraded suspension and upright position.  The engine will seduce you.

[garry]

Good point Steve. The Tiger, Ulysses and Multistrada are all very worthy competitors to the big Strom, especially if you're sticking to mostly paved roads.

[Rincewind]

Don't forget to try the Ulysses before you buy (and get the free bag).  The Buell has a lower redline than the others so makes senses if you don't wind your bike out often.  Maintenance is reportedly pretty reasonable, and the belt drive is neat.

[maddjack]

I agree with garry comfort is an individual thing,what works for me may suck for you. All the above mentioned bikes are definately on my short list(I need money to buy!) I am holding out for 1 More year in hope of the rumored baby Tiger 675,if not ,its looking for me a Tiger for my new LD mount or a 650 Strom. I would buy a Uly but the nearest Buell dealer for me is a tad far,and I have no desire to repeat LD travel for any needed Dealer service.Otherwise it would be the uly,its maintance is very low and its easy to work on yourself

[spd2918]

Why not get the 'Strom?  I loved the riding position of my 1000 but ultimately sold it due to no wind protection and poor passenger space (her words, not mine).

[Bodhi]

As Gary said, comfort is subjective. My first bike was an upright cruiser and I found that it transmitted every bump straight up my spine (I have a slightly bad back - nothing tremendously serious, but it does bother me sometimes). When I got the ST3, the first thing I was going to do was put on helibars, but on some advice in STN, decided to wait at least 1,000 miles to see if liked the bone stock (slightly sporty posture). I don't regret my decision. I find the slight forward lean means the bumps don't go straight up my spine - instead, my torso acts like a lever, ratcheting up and down to absord the bumps (like a skier with his kness flexed instead of locked). It makes sense to me if you have back issues, that a slight forward lean might actually take some of the jolting forces off your back.

[12Runderme]

If you're sticking to pavement, consider Suzuki's new Bandit 1250 or a used Kawi ZRX1200.  You'll probably want something with some mild off-road design, though, based on the Euro bikes you mentioned.

Just found this little video review of the new Bandit
http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=752841791&channel=711881422

[pushrod]

Riverstone, I smiled at the ergo observations, and some of the irony. I have a yen for a 'strom myself, mainly for a comfy platform on which to ensconce the lovely bride, and minor unpaved excursions. I actually fear the upright position of the strom, 'cause upright is much harder on my back like some have mentioned. I DO support your following your ergo assessments. None of the bikes you mention would seem to have any issues, and I'm also sold on Japanese reliability, though I think Triumph and Aprilia (Tuono?) would serve well also. I'm not willing to wade into daffydromic maintenance - I'd choose pushrods (Uly) before that.
 
'Hope the sale of the Viffer is good to you and that the new chosen steed just makes you stupid happy!

[kyzrex]

why not keep the VFR and put a set of helibars on it?   Would bring the bars up and back a bit to give you more of an upright position.

[nanbil]

I agree, I love the more relaxed but still sporty upright position of my TDM—slight foward lean. Coming off the TDM—which is not a small bike by any means—the Strom felt huge.  I didn't care for it at all.  If you are coming off a VFR I think that you will find a smaller more sporty bike, like the Multistrada or the Uly, a better fit.  Just my opinion.

Bill

[Prubert]

I second the advice to give the Uly a try.  I only have 1200 miles on mine and I really think it can do everything my Sprint/VFR did.  I have not ventured off-road with it yet, but I don't think that I will do that much.

You are right, the upright position is great, and with the Buell tall windscreen I have no pressure on my chest, it is a very neutral position.

The '07 seat is a bit lower then the '06 if you are inseamed challenged. and the bags swallow a full face helmet.

I really like the low maintenance aspect of the bike too...

And the messenger bag that Buell is giving away for a test ride is quite nice.  I have been using mine for over 2 months to tote around the macbook and it is showing no signs of wear, its even is a good design to take with you on trips to the airport.

[kendenton]

Scott,

I have no concerns about the current euro-bikes reliability.  If you're only considering current japanese bikes, I don't know what else there is other than the VStrom you mentioned.  The new Bandit would certainly be tempting if you don't mind a naked, and the price is right.

I demo'd the new Tiger, and that is quite the nice bike, with a perfect seating position - even better than the Multi.  ABS too!

[cal_tony]

I find the VFR too upright compared to my CBR. However it is comfortable to me. I have 2 upright bikes and also find them comfortable but not for long distance same speed riding.

The pain that I get in my back from long distance riding is the constant pounding  by my upper body weight to the base of my spine. I get sciatic nerve pain. With the forward riding stance of the sport bike, a lot of my weight is distributed to my leg and  stomach muscles and I experience no pain.

Initially, I did notice that I was putting too much pressure on my shoulders because I was trying to hold my body up. MY arms were fully extended  and it was uncomfortable. Now I find that my riding position is such that I find that my arms are low and not doing anything other than operating the  levers.

Regarding the tilted forward riding style making it difficult to look around while riding, thats a mixed bag.

If I go into town, I automatically use one of my other bikes because not being able to look around in town is a problem. On the road however, it helps me to concentrate on whats ahead and not whats on the side or off the road.

So, is the upright position better? As far as I'm concerned each position has it's advantages and disadvantages. If I want to go fast or log on some miles, it's the CBR. If it's just a leisurely ride or a 2 up ride (which I hardly ever do)  it's never the CBR.

Tony

[SuperHans]

Scott, do you really need a bike with off road capabilities when you have the KLR? Just something to think about.

The Triumphs are very reliable so I would'nt overlook them.

[maddjack]

I think the best way for anyone to judge comfort is to ride whatever machine they are intrested in,the classic sportbike position I Used to favor now destroys my back in a very short time,and more upright seems much better ,which is why the S3 i ride feels so comfy even on long days.maybe things just change enough as a person gets older,what was good is no longer and things that were not  are now good.My 2 coppers

[RunningLate]

My first bike was a VFR. I've put 16K miles on it and think it's a fantastic bike.

Six months later, I bought a KLR, and did a 5,000-mile tour on it. I realized on that tour that I liked the upright riding position of the KLR more than the sportbike position (or somewhat moderated sportbike position) of the VFR. For me, it's just more comfortable, period. I like having less weight on my hands, and I like being able to rotate and look around more easily. (I have a strong back from years of kayaking, so sitting upright with more weight on my back/butt has never been an issue for me.)

So that's the situation. I love my VFR...but I'm just feeling more and more like it's just not "the" bike for me. I'm thinking I'd be happier on a big upright bike with the power and comfort for long-distance touring.

I've been fixating on the V-Strom, because it's really the only non-expensive, non-European big upright bike out there. I'd love to have a BMW GS1200 or a Multistrada or a Triumph Tiger...but I'm 100% sold on Japanese reliability and low cost of maintenance.

Just thoughts. Any other thoughts?

Scott

I rode a WeeStrom for ~12,000 miles (my first bike). My longest day was 600+ miles (mountain hiways). The ergos were perfect for me, the next day I was not stiff or sore anywhere. The bike handled the twisties easily for a beginner rider and yes it was fun for me. Two problems started to bother me; for hiway use the engine (650cc) lacked passing power for my tastes and the original windscreen left me with a slightly scrambled noodle from the wind buffeting after a long ride. There is much discussion on the VStrom forums about windshield cures. I sold it because I want to ride many different bikes in as short a time span as my finances will allow. My opinion - I like VStrom.

[Farked Up]

The Strom is a capable all-purpose road bike. IMO it has plenty of power and the seating position is comfortable. I have a bad back (3 surgeries, fused L-4 & L-5, 2 rods), and I can ride an hour, or so, without much increased pain (using a prescribed back brace). I've got the buffeting under control with a Madstad mount. The stock seat could use more padding, so for longer trips, it would be nice to find a better seat. I've never had any problems passing cars on the highway. I have cruised comfortably at 85+ indicated for 50+ miles. That said, my next bike may be a Tiger or a BMW, which I think are a notch above, at least performance wise.

[cuoco1200gt]

too poor to buy cheap gs all the way!  boxer engine  maintenance  cost are  not bad  and can be done yourself also very easy to work on. test ride one before you buy anything

[Johnny Monsoon]

B1250 (or older B12).  The Ulyssesssss jumped right to mind as well...  FZ1...

If you're into the touring thing, why not look at the ST1300?

[kendenton]

If you're gonna look at the ST13, then the FJR needs to be considered as well.  Which then means you should look at some BMW's as well - the K12GT if you're feeling extra flush, the GS if not-quite-so-flush.

Oh - the Norge, definitely look at the Norge if you're thinking of a bit bigger bike.  Of course if Ducati/Triumph reliability has you concerned....  

[Sport]

For me its not the comfort on a long haul its the available viewpoint.  On my Hayabusa my view is limited to just above the road's horizon.  If I want to see the tops of the trees and mountains I have to crane my neck upwards.  On my standard riding position CBXs, my view is face front and upright so I see everything better, especially while riding up or down (mountain pass) kind of roads.  Still deciding which to take on my first summer tour on June 30.  Did a 530 mile shakedown ride on my Busa yesterday from San Jose over the Sonora Pass and back thru Yosemite over the Tioga.  On the wide open flats or sweepers the Busa's speed is hard not to like but in the corners of high mountain roads when my speed is reduced and I'm as much sight seeing as riding, I think I prefer the standard riding position.

[emillard]

Remember when you make a change in your body position you are affecting things other than comfort.  For me, I wanted a more upright riding position on my ZZR1200.  So I added Heli-Bars and they made a huge difference.  However, I was still not able to ride any longer distances because there was a lot more wind buffeting than before.  I never understood what all the complaining about wind buffeting was until I experienced.  Off came the Heli-bars and on went the stock clip-ons.  It's just something to consider.

[SWriverstone]

Good replies everyone. First of all, I'm NOT looking at the ST1300 or FJR—don't get me wrong, they're both great bikes!   But I want something good for paved *and* dirt roads. So that pretty much narrows down my choices to:

- V-Strom
- Ulysses
- Multistrada
- Tiger

Yeah, I know I didn't list the BMW GS1150/1200...but that's because they're too expensive (new). Sorry, I don't care what anyone says—but BMWs are just a crappy value (note I said "crappy value," not "crappy bike").

EJWorthen, I didn't mention it before (and this is all still speculative) but I'm considering selling BOTH the VFR and KLR. See, right now, I have opposite extremes...and after riding these two for a while, I'm realizing that what I'm aiming for is right in the middle of the two, which is where the bikes listed above fall: good power/performance on the street, but capable of mild offroad riding. That's the "sweet spot" for me!

Many people mentioned back problems exacerbated by the upright position. I can easily understand this given back problems. But (knock on wood) 15 years of whitewater canoe racing has given me an extremely strong lower back, so I've never had an issue with the upright position and my back.

Many people also mentioned increased turbulence/wind buffeting with the more upright bikes. While this may be true, I rode a KLR (with the stock "windscreen") 5,000 miles to Canada and back, and I was never particularly bothered by buffeting. So if the KLR didn't bother me, I know I won't be bothered by any of the bikes above. (My personal take is that if you want a quiet ride, get a Goldwing!)

Scott

[kendenton]

I've recently demo'd the Tiger and the Multi 1100S.  I'd give the Tiger the nod for comfort and power, the Ducati for power delivery (I'm a sucker for that midrange torque).  

I'm still trying to get a ride on a Uly, it's almost impossible to find a H-D/Buell dealer around here that gives a crap about Buells.  Which, by the way, might be something to consider.  There are a zillion H-D dealers out there, but even those with Buell franchises don't seem to care about them.  You'll always be a second-class citizen there.  That would bug me.

The V-strom certainly has a huge following, but it does nothing for me personally.  YMMV.

I kind of agree on the BMW value point.  Not much bang-for-the buck in that marquee.  I looked at the R1200R a while back, and couldn't believe it was nearly $15 large for the basic R model.  On the other hand, if you consider resale values, then the value question does a 180.  They hold their value very well - not as good as Harleys, but certainly better than any of the Japanese brands.

[Playinthestreet]

A fair number of riders at www.tiger1050.com have put lower bars on the new Tigers for a slightly more "sport bike" posture.  I came off an 05 Sprint St and prefer the ergos of the Tiger.  YMMV

[garry]

Scott, the buffeting problem is because of the windscreen. The KLR and other naked bikes just put you in clean air. The half-assed windscreen designs on the ADV type bikes end up causing as many problems as they solve (subjective). So just because the KLR doesn't give you a problem doesn't mean you won't get buffeted to death by a Strom (for example). Some people have cut the windscreens down on their Stroms to reduced the buffeting. The only way to know is to try one and see how it works for you.

[LENSMAN]

I put high bars on my Sv650- I can go anywhere in comfort.

[R Doug]

Scott, I think you have your work cut out for you.  All four of those bike are great!  And, lucky for you, your inseam size won't rule out any for you.  When I did the same search last year, the Ully was way too tall, the DL1000 was a little to tall, and FZ1 was just right for me (I know that's not on your list, but it was on mine).  I really wanted the Ully, it was a blast to ride.

The ONLY reason I didn't strongly consider the Duc or Triumph is my closest deal is over 70 miles away.  And already owning one Triumph, I wanted at least one bike I didn't have to take a day off work to get service done (when / if needed).  

Now that I've been able to sit on a Tiger, it's too tall for me as well.  So again, lucky you, you can't automatically narrow one down due to physical restraints.    I envy you.  Keep us updated in regards to your opinions of the various bikes as you try them out!

[servicerifle]

Now that I've been able to sit on a Tiger, it's too tall for me as well.  So again, lucky you, you can't automatically narrow one down due to physical restraints.    I envy you.

You and me both.  I think the Tiger is most likely excellent (based on my Sprint) but I'm too dadgum short for it.

[chornbe]

My first bike was a VFR. I've put 16K miles on it and think it's a fantastic bike.

Six months later, I bought a KLR, and did a 5,000-mile tour on it. I realized on that tour that I liked the upright riding position of the KLR more than the sportbike position (or somewhat moderated sportbike position) of the VFR. For me, it's just more comfortable, period. I like having less weight on my hands, and I like being able to rotate and look around more easily. (I have a strong back from years of kayaking, so sitting upright with more weight on my back/butt has never been an issue for me.)

So that's the situation. I love my VFR...but I'm just feeling more and more like it's just not "the" bike for me. I'm thinking I'd be happier on a big upright bike with the power and comfort for long-distance touring.

I've been fixating on the V-Strom, because it's really the only non-expensive, non-European big upright bike out there. I'd love to have a BMW GS1200 or a Multistrada or a Triumph Tiger...but I'm 100% sold on Japanese reliability and low cost of maintenance.

Just thoughts. Any other thoughts?

Scott

Scott, I just added GenMar risers to my FJR. I didn't do it for comfort reasons or wrist/elbow reasons. Bottom line; I have a short neck and leaned over, I just can't turn my head that far. And sorry, but riding on the street, visibility = life. So, adding the risers sets me up straighter and my helmet doesn't hit my shoulders any more and I can turn my head more.

I'm also more comfortable. It's a by-product, not the main reason I did it. But on a fun, spirited ride today, I was faster, more confident and had more ability to move around the seat, lay down when I needed to or wanted to, not because I had to, and after a 350 mile, 9 hour jaunt on some fantastic Eastern PA roads, I feel great.

I think bikes like the FJR, the MV, the Monster, the FZ-1, etc., have shown us that we don't need to crawl on the bikes and lay on them to get them to go fast and handle well. As much as riding my friend's VFR makes me feel like some kind of a super star (Jeezuz, does that machine handle!!), I think my weekend toy is going to end up being something like a Ninja 650R or an SV650; something more upright.

[R Doug]

I think my weekend toy is going to end up being something like a Ninja 650R or an SV650; something more upright.

Chris, try out a Super Duke like I did and you'll not want anything else for your weekend play toy.  Now, if there's just something I can do to come up w/ the extra money.  

Even if I traded the Daytona in for it, the $$ gap would be enough to warrant wife's foot up my arse.  

[servicerifle]

"Chris, try out a Super Duke like I did and you'll not want anything else for your weekend play toy."


Yeah, you'll like it 'till you are all leaned over and hit a bump.  Then the front end starts weaving and you'll think "where's my Triumph?!"

Happened to me on a demo, then I asked the KTM talk guys about it and they all agreed that it is there, and it happens.  Uncool.

[chornbe]

Chris, try out a Super Duke like I did and you'll not want anything else for your weekend play toy.  Now, if there's just something I can do to come up w/ the extra money.  

Even if I traded the Daytona in for it, the $$ gap would be enough to warrant wife's foot up my arse.  

You remember how short I am, right? I felt like I needed a step ladder just to be in the same room with the duke  

[atypical1]

Wow, what a great dilemma to have. You have a choice of a lot of great bikes. I tested the GS, Multi, Uly, Sprint, and ST3 before choosing the Multi.

I really like the upright seating position and don't find that it transmits any pressure to my back. FWIW, I have chronic back pain that I have to closely work on via stretching every day). The position is pretty neutral (I am 6'2") and allows you to move around on the bike as you need to (whether it is for comfort of for riding style). I really like the Multi because it is a pretty light bike and is really, really simple. I also like how easy it is to maneuver in any situation (whether it is the slow speed tight stuff, city streets, or the high speed sweepers). I also really like the character that the Multi has in spades. It is definitely an acquired taste with regard to looks but I only see the dash anyway.

I have not had any reliability issues aside from valve guides under warranty. The valves have only required adjustment once (when the valve guides were done) and I have 20k in a year and a half. The bike has not ever left me stranded and it runs like a charm. There is a lot to be said for a simple air-cooled 2-valve motor in that respect.

That being said, all of the bikes you listed are great bikes. I would not rule out a used GS either though. They really are nice bikes and put together really well. The Uly was really nice but it did not fit me that well and did not seem to have as nice of components as the Duc. But it was a blast to ride. The 1050 motor of the Triumphs is really, really sweet and I expect the Tiger to be a really nice ride.

Good luck and let us know what you end up with!

james

[TWI]

Yeah, I know I didn't list the BMW GS1150/1200...but that's because they're too expensive (new). Sorry, I don't care what anyone says—but BMWs are just a crappy value (note I said "crappy value," not "crappy bike").

I can't argue with that.  The feel of the boxer motor and the low maintenance of the shaft drive, together with the other bits and pieces make the R1200R worth it to me.  For flat out 'value' it falls short.

But, it feels so good to ride.  Maybe a R1200GS would suit you. Go down to Morton's and test ride one.  Go ahead: The first ride is free.....

[Rincewind]

Good replies everyone. First of all, I'm NOT looking at the ST1300 or FJR—don't get me wrong, they're both great bikes!   But I want something good for paved *and* dirt roads. So that pretty much narrows down my choices to:

- V-Strom
- Ulysses
- Multistrada
- Tiger

I think it depends on how much and how technical of non-paved roads you are talking about.  If it is more difficult, I would suggest the larger 19" front wheels of the Strom and the Tiger 955i would provide more confidence.  I have taken my 1050 Tiger (17" front) on some non-paved roads and it did just fine.  However, if the road becomes less graded or washed out, the 17" front feels a little more skittish than a larger wheel would.

The flipside of that is that on the road the 17" front transmits more to the rider, where a 19" wheel can feel more vague.  Plus the 17" wheels offer a lot of good ST tire selections.  So there are trade-offs one way or another.  For me I only do light exploring on non-paved roads so the Tiger 1050 is just fine.  If I were doing long stretches of them, with possible wash-outs and poor conditions, I would want the larger front wheels, semi-knobby tires, and a good bash plate - for that the 955i Tiger is a great place to start, though a Strom could be equally outfitted.

I agree that a used R1150GS or R1200GS would also be an excellent workhorse, as would a used KTM Adventure 950.

[Nitro]

To me it depends where you plan to ride and how fast....


I have a 05 inter, a 07 vstrom.and naked bikes .totally diff critters..I like em all..I find in town and short runs i like the vstrom, but longer i am way more comfy on the vfr.I mean the 700 mile days , lots of them.....and i do enough of them....the upright  puts too  much on my spine, my buttoxxxxx  kills me after a while..on the vfr, nothing hurts cept arms if I'm poking.thing  sucks in town..I dont ride in town tho,.and  I dont poke on the vfr..
...So for me its  where i plan to ride that dictates my comfort ..I like the vstrom for in town where i dont have the speed to keep the airflow up to lift me off the bars on the vfr.I can see better in traffic, .I really ike the dl for 2-upping and thats where it really shines for me and of course  for the backroads, mind you i have no trouble with the vfr on the backroads either, but i tend to  not feel as bad bangin the dl around as its so $&%%&^ ugly I dont care if i get it  filthy......But at  higher speeds and  long trips, the vfr wins easily for me..especially the  nice clean airflow I enjoy on it versus the  turbulence of the windstrom(yea I know all the fix's, I  have mine about as good as it can be with the simple major tilt back and its "ok" ) But the small window and the stock bars make the vfr a pleasure  for me on the long trips at good speeds.

But if you are gonna do the high bars, big window on the vfr, you will screw it up trying to turn it into a dl, so just get the dl anyway....

But...One thing that does make me think i could live with just the dl is the price, and the  operating costs..I get 2-3 times the tire life and double the chain life and 15 mpg more outa the dl..mind you I dont get near the thrills outa it I do on the vfr either..but I might last longer on the dl..

If you do want to try a dl, you cant  get close for the price with anything else..so its probly the one to experiment with..plus if you dont like it, they sell quick!

good luck!!

[SWriverstone]

I don't get it—I thought the Tiger 1050 was a dual-sport—but in all the photos (with it's front fender 1/2" from the tire) and it's "urban sport" category name, it appears to be street-only. What's up with that? (Or was the 955 the dual-sport? Has Triumph gotten out of the serious adventure bike market?)

Scott

[Snowdog]

The 955 Tiger wasn't really a dual sport either - despite the bash plate and longer travel suspension. It came with road tyres and also had a low front mudguard. IIRC Triumph put in the "Touring" category.

But then the old (Meriden) Tiger was a road bike too - basically the single carb version of the Bonnie.

[thatguy]

Scott you remind me of a bed hopping woman.Always looking for the greener grass instead of mowing the lawn.I thought you enjoyed the other Viffer you rode a couple weeks ago?Higher bars and lower pegs?Ya know the yellow one.Settle down and mod what you have to suit.remember the first 6 months you own a bike it's more likely to.....................well you know.   Fuking type A nutz..........................

[garry]

Regardless of the front fender, any "all roads" bike (none of them are dual-sports IMO) with a 17" front wheel is going to have a strong street bias. The 19" wheel of the Strom rolls over stuff and handles better in loose conditions, plus you can get blockier tires for it such as the Tourance and Anakee which are not available with 17" fronts. You can even get a semi-knobby tire such as the TKC80 for a 19" front.

It really comes down to how you plan to use the bike. They are all big heavy street bikes, not dual-sports. Even the 650 Strom is a big heavy street bike, but it's probably the most nimble of the lot on dirt/gravel roads. If you're also going to trade the KLR, I would take a very strong look at the Wee Strom (650) to replace both bikes. It will be the best choice for your non-paved adventures and it does fine everywhere else too (highway, twisties, commuting, etc). Plus it has ABS available which is a plus for you.

You might want to pay attention to the Triumph rumor mill. Talk of a 675-based Tiger is out there. No idea on whether it will just be a smaller Tiger or more dirt-worthy. I'm hoping for something much more dirt-worthy to give the Wee Strom some competition.

[SWriverstone]

Scott you remind me of a bed hopping woman.Always looking for the greener grass instead of mowing the lawn.I thought you enjoyed the other Viffer you rode a couple weeks ago?Higher bars and lower pegs?Ya know the yellow one.Settle down and mod what you have to suit.remember the first 6 months you own a bike it's more likely to.....................well you know.   Fuking type A nutz..........................

LOL, well yeah, I guess you're partly right. But ya know, the VFR was *always* my 2nd choice—I originally wanted an ST3, but decided the VFR was the smarter choice (and I found a screamin' deal on one). And I ended up buying the KLR because the VFR was lousy on dirt roads. Now...I can't help but keep thinking I want BOTH in one bike! (And yeah, that's where the grass is greener, etc.) What can I say? Even with bar risers (which would definitely make the VFR more comfortable), it's still not as comfortable as my KLR...so I keep dreaming of something as comfortable as the KLR but with POWER.  

Besides, I remember back before I bought any motorcycle, lots of people said "It'll take a while before you figure out what works best for you."

Garry, I appreciate your points about tires—I wasn't aware of the more limited dual-sport tire selection for 17" tires. And yes, ABS is a BIG plus for me (in light of, err...recent events).

Scott

[chornbe]

You want the 'Strom 650.  

[RideWV]

The BMW GS is only 3k more than the Uly.  Tiger with ABS is same price as Uly.   Compare the insurance price of a GS vs. a Tiger, it's much less from my company.

The sweet spot for value is the last year 1150GS, before the switch to the 1200.  I think a second owner 1150GS would last longer than all the other bikes on your list, be the most comfortable, easiest to work on, and have the most aftermarket support.  I truly loved my BMW.

Come by Morgantown one day and you can ride my buddies 1150 with Remus and huge windshield, you met him at Denny's.

The only problem with a GS is that they are popular to the point of cliche.  Same reason everyone hates the VFR.

James

ps.  Just want to add that you should consider wheels if you are going to do any offroading.  The Beemer has strong, spoked, tubeless wheels, that's where a chunk of the extra money comes into play too.

[SWriverstone]

Though I haven't ridden one (yet) I have to admit I'm slowly but surely being seduced by the uniqueness of Buell and the Ulysses. I've always liked to think of myself as "different" (whether I really am or not)...so the "outsider" status of Buell appeals to me!   Plus I don't think I've ever heard a bad thing about a Buell and the Uly in particular.

Gotta go find one to try!
Scott

[servicerifle]

Scott, I felt exactly the same way 'till I tried one.  I wanted to like it so much, but upon riding one my mind changed completely.  You may feel completely different though.

[RideWV]

Don't forget to get your free bag.  I'm doing the Demo ride next week at Cerini's just for that reason. (of course, who knows, I might fall in love with it).

James

[Rincewind]

I don't get it—I thought the Tiger 1050 was a dual-sport—but in all the photos (with it's front fender 1/2" from the tire) and it's "urban sport" category name, it appears to be street-only. What's up with that? (Or was the 955 the dual-sport? Has Triumph gotten out of the serious adventure bike market?)

Scott

The 1050 Tiger is not a dual-sport.  The earlier models had more concessions toward dirt riding, but they weren't really dual sports either.  The 1050 is best described as an upright sportbike with extra suspension that does pretty well on beat-up roads.  It feels lightweight and has excellent slow-speed balance, but it is a streetbike with Pilot Road S tires.  I think you could get pretty far down an abandoned, camping, forest, or nature road on a Tiger 1050, but I wouldn't take it on a serious dual-sport trail.  The flipside is that it's road handling is superb and it's quite fast (probably the fastest of the bikes being discussed - it howls).

If you think about it, Supermoto uses 17" tires, and it is common for Supermoto races to have dirt-riding portions.  You can ride a bike with 17" wheels plenty of places.  

The low front fender is present on all of these liter+ adventure-type bikes, KTM and BMW included.  

If you want a real dual sport in the liter size, with a high front fender, look at the KTM 950 Enduro.  But that's not exactly tour friendly.  

[Rincewind]

Garry, I appreciate your points about tires—I wasn't aware of the more limited dual-sport tire selection for 17" tires. And yes, ABS is a BIG plus for me (in light of, err...recent events).

Scott

You may want to research the use of ABS on dirt roads.  I believe it is called an "ice effect" and it means that the ABS can prohibit stopping quickly.  

I don't think the V-strom ABS or Tiger ABS systems have a switch to turn them off, though you may be able to fab one, I don't know.

[kendenton]

If you want a real dual sport in the liter size, with a high front fender, look at the KTM 950 Enduro.  But that's not exactly tour friendly.  

How about the KTM Adventure bikes?  Surely they're up to some dirt riding as well as touring?  Definitely fits the "i want to be different" bill as well.  As for dealers....

[SWriverstone]

Thanks for the illumination on Tigers Rincewind. Very interesting, and I had not heard of issues with ABS on dirt roads—definitely something to look into. I'm aware of the KTM950...but it's a little $teep, and I don't know how good it is for long-distance pavement touring.

When I bought my KLR, I honestly thought I'd be riding a lot more offroad. While I've done some long rides on fire roads and a few rougher double-track rides, I'm realizing what I've heard others say—here in the east, it's not easy to just head out the garage and quickly get into some good single- and double-track riding. At least where I live, you have to ride a while to find anything like that. (It might be a different story if I lived out west...)

So I'm realizing that 90% (or more) of my riding (at least 'til I move out west in a few years) is going to be on pavement...but...much of that pavement will definitely be rough (e.g. poorly paved, beat-up, potholed back roads). So that's why I'm really looking for a street bike that has no problem tackling those crappy potholed backroads and the occasional graded dirt/gravel roads.

Scott

PS - Whenever I talk about "streetbikes that can handle dirt roads," invariably someone chimes in with "I take my VFR on dirt roads all the time!" My response to that is, you're a better rider than I am!   The few times I've had my Viffer on dirt/gravel, it scared the hell out of me and I hated it! So...I say "No thank you!" to sportbikes off-pavement.

[ctfz1]

Gen1 (01-05) FZ1  as a trial ride on a sportbike/naked that shouldn't be missed.  Grin machine.  Upgrade springs, and mod to suit. 26,000 valve adj inspection.  Most difficult feature, right windscreen.

[cosmoose]

I fit right in with this thread.  I just sold my 1997 Bandit for a V-Strom, which I find much more comfortable.  But my issue concerns shoulder position, not back pain.  

I just like sitting on dirt bikes, and the 'Strom sits like one.  

But that's my body.  Sit on a bunch of stuff and make a call.

Dave

[Johnny Monsoon]

do you really need a liter?  Honestly, it struck me all over again how good at the mission you are describing the 650R is.  I swear I'd get one of these and put some DS tires on it and take it everywhere.  It deserves a look.  Ditto, of course, with the WeeStrom...

[WitchCityBallabio]

Wait for the Stelvio!  

[Jesse]

Don't forget to get your free bag.  I'm doing the Demo ride next week at Cerini's just for that reason. (of course, who knows, I might fall in love with it).

James

James,

I went to Cerinis in Rostraver one afternoon a few weeks ago to do a test ride. Wasn't able to get one....the salesman I spoke with was polite and helpful but clearly hadn't dealt with anyone wanting to test ride a Buell before -  you'd have thought I'd walked in off the street to take a helicopter for a test flight   He got the manager but they didn't have anyone to go out with me. I'm going  to give them a call again in a few weeks after we're out of school so the next trip down there is more worthwhile.

Sounds like you've already made arrangements....good luck!

[kendenton]

James,

I went to Cerinis in Rostraver one afternoon a few weeks ago to do a test ride. Wasn't able to get one....the salesman I spoke with was polite and helpful but clearly hadn't dealt with anyone wanting to test ride a Buell before -  you'd have thought I'd walked in off the street to take a helicopter for a test flight   He got the manager but they didn't have anyone to go out with me. I'm going  to give them a call again in a few weeks after we're out of school so the next trip down there is more worthwhile.

Sounds like you've already made arrangements....good luck!

You'll need luck - I called 5 area Buell dealers, and none had a Uly for demo.  Only one dealer had any Buell to demo, a TT.  The rest had no Buells in stock at all.  

[garry]

That's odd (re: Cerinis). I went there last year (April) to demo a Uly. It was a painless experience. Sign the usual wavers and got to lead (with directions) a guy from the shop on his (self-proclaimed) "Geezer Glide". Nice folks there. My other Uly demos were at New Castle HD/Buell. Nice folks there too and the owner actually rides a Uly. I got to take his personal bike out one ride since it was already broken in.

I'm still attracted to the Uly, but I found the Multistrada to be the most fun in the twisties, for me anyway. Haven't ridden the new Tiger yet though.

[RideWV]

Jesse, Garry,

Pardon the threadjack...I've called Cerini's a couple times and they are a bit confused about test rides but they said to try to make it on a monday or wednesday and they would try to accomodate.  I can guarantee that if I ride all the way up that boring road to ride one and can't, I'm taking my free bag anyway!  Ironically the bike I wanted to test ride was the TT and that was the only one they didn't have as a demo. (though they did have one in the shop and they said I might be able to ride it even though it wasn't officially a demo).

I sat on a Multistrada and Tiger the other day in pittsburgh and I have to say, I was pretty well smitten with the Duc, more so than the tiger.  But, I need to ride both of those too.  I definitely prefer euro dealers to Buell/HD and big 4 dealers.

I'll still probably end up with a V-strom because that's the one I can afford, lol.

James

[Jesse]

Jesse, Garry,

Pardon the threadjack...I've called Cerini's a couple times and they are a bit confused about test rides but they said to try to make it on a monday or wednesday and they would try to accomodate.  

James

James,

You might want to give them a call before you leave home to make sure they have someone to go out with you. The manager gave me his card so that I could call before my next trip and he did say that some days were better than others in terms of having extra personnel around to accompany people on test rides. I also got the sense that they felt a lot of the Buell test riders were just coming for the free bag.....

[Dichotomous]

why not keep the VFR and put a set of helibars on it?   Would bring the bars up and back a bit to give you more of an upright position.

yeah why bother getting a whole new bike when seating position is your only issue?  convertibars also must make a kit to put the bars anywhere you want, adjustability on the fly too, have you sportbike and tour it too!

[SWriverstone]

yeah why bother getting a whole new bike when seating position is your only issue?  convertibars also must make a kit to put the bars anywhere you want, adjustability on the fly too, have you sportbike and tour it too!

Good point...except seating position isn't the only point—I also want a bike that can go on or off the pavement, and I'll never take the VFR off-pavement. I do think Heli-bars make the VFR more comfortable...but it's still not the same as an upright bike.

Scott

[ctfz1]

FZ1 s have been described as big dirt bikes. I've got the Rizona bar (slightly flatter and wider and prettier) and never hesitate on gravel. Some tires work better than others. At least one cummuter uses DP tires as gravel roads are his quickest way to work and enjoyable.
Fz is lowest cost easy maintaince, lightest, best brakes, easiest to mod or upgrade.
And the perma grin comes stock.

[servicerifle]

Scott, I think you've gotten as much nitty-gritty as you're going to get on things.  Time for you to actually put your butt on some of these bikes and make a gut decision.  

[forester]

With interests like this:

I didn't mention it before (and this is all still speculative) but I'm considering selling BOTH the VFR and KLR. See, right now, I have opposite extremes...and after riding these two for a while, I'm realizing that what I'm aiming for is right in the middle of the two, which is where the bikes listed above fall: good power/performance on the street, but capable of mild offroad riding. That's the "sweet spot" for me!

...and an attitude like that:

Many people also mentioned increased turbulence/wind buffeting with the more upright bikes. While this may be true, I rode a KLR (with the stock "windscreen") 5,000 miles to Canada and back, and I was never particularly bothered by buffeting. So if the KLR didn't bother me, I know I won't be bothered by any of the bikes above. (My personal take is that if you want a quiet ride, get a Goldwing!)

There is currently only one path to follow:   Welcome to the pod.  Resistance is futile!    

P/S Having adjusted the shield angle on the strom, I can ride visor up (pair of shades on) down the freeway at 80, and it's quiet enough to hear yourself talk.  

P/S2  I had to adjust the slack in my chain at 7500 miles.  Now at 14000+ miles, I've got to adjust my clutch now....Damn I hate high maintenance bikes!  

[chornbe]

I think too many people confuse being "in the air" with buffeting. Any cruiser or naked or sport bike will put you in the air. Put a 'shield on a cruiser, for instance, and you will know true buffeting. Anything less is simply not worth complaining about.

[ctfz1]

Had a YZF1000R, no turbulence problem before or after I raised the handlebars. I have an 01 FZ1, fairing is too far ahead of rider, which makes almost everything you do a compromise. Mirror mod reduces turbulence, minimized works best (shortened), Givi fits me, turbulent in triple digits. Right posture on an unfaired bike or nose faired works very well. Some fairings, for whatever reasons make this more difficult instead of easier.

[FlowBee]

I think too many people confuse being "in the air" with buffeting. Any cruiser or naked or sport bike will put you in the air. Put a 'shield on a cruiser, for instance, and you will know true buffeting. Anything less is simply not worth complaining about.

Exactamundo!  

The Guzzi with the bigass barn door NC touring windscreen is excellent at 40-80mph, with little noise and no buffetting.  No wind either, so it gets downright HOT in summer traffic. Earplugs optional, ventilation mandatory.  The classic upright tombstone windscreen beats the hell out of you at anything above 50mph.

The ST1100 with a Laminar System allows wind to strike mid-faceshield, elbows, upper arms and shoulders.  It has little buffetting, but lots of noise.   Its great for most situations, but gets a bit hot in traffic.  Some of the tall narrow screens beat the heck out of you at 80+ mph.  My passenger hates all Rifle screens and the stock screen, as the envelope collapses around her helmet above 70mph.

The KTM is relatively quiet and smooth, with a smooth even flow of air pushing back from above the lower chest. Its best at 50-70mph.   With a Shoei X11 earplugs are almost optional.  Any ventilation feels GREAT in hot weather.  And colder than hell below 40F.   -  oh, and you get great abdominal exercise at 80mph plus.   100mph very serious exercise for the upper body.

[thatguy]

pppppppppppsssssssssssssssstttttttttttt tttttt..............hey you!..............yeah,you Scott!..............I gotta word for you...........................TUONO