Underwhelmed by the ST3

[SWriverstone]

So I took Holly's new ('06) ST3 for a longer test ride last night. It's a beautiful bike. Super-comfy seat, and awesome-sounding engine. The thing is a rocketship on the interstate, and tears up the twisties with vigor and style!

But I have to say I was generally underwhelmed with the bike. After all the VFR-bashing that goes on...and all the ST3-worshipping that goes on, I think anyone who thinks the ST3 is a better bike than the VFR is smokin' crack! I'm not saying the ST3 is a bad bike, quite the contrary...I'm saying that to me, it performed almost identically to the VFR in most aspects. I definitely think the ST3's engine felt more powerful, with a much wider power band...but read on...

My biggest complaint with my VFR has been the snatchy, twitchy throttle response. Well, imagine my shock and amazement when I found that the ST3 was WAY worse than the VFR!!! The throttle on this bike was INSANELY twitchy and hyper-sensitive. If I so much as blinked an eye or rode over a tiny bump in the road, the throttle would twitch and the engine would surge. On a straight, level stretch of road, I found it almost impossible to maintain speed at a steady throttle position without the engine twitching and surging---it was maddening! (BTW, I was putting ZERO weight on my hands and wrists, supporting my weight entirely with my legs and lower back---I made it a point to do this to see if that reduced the twitchy throttle---it didn't.)

Now remember---I'm accustomed to a fuel-injected bike with a twitchy throttle. It's especially bad when I'm coming from a VFR...and the ST3's throttle feels like a nightmare by comparison!

What made this even more disappointing is that I'm also comparing the ST3 to the 748. I (perhaps foolishly) thought that because it's still a Duc, there might be some resemblance between the ST3's engine/throttle response and the 748---no way! Not even close! They're like bikes from two different manufacturers!

Again, I have to emphasize that this issue is not "me." It's very real, and very annoying. So my question to all other ST3 owners out there is...is this normal for an ST3? Or is there something going on with this particular bike? (If all ST3's are like this, then I'm astonished you guys all tolerate such twitchy throttle response!)

As another point of comparison, I rode a Suzuki V-Strom 650 earlier the same day...and the DL650's throttle and engine were FAR smoother than the ST3. (And this is a "cheap Japanese bike!") Again...I'd take the DL650 over the ST3 any day!

If it weren't for the throttle issue, I'd rate the ST3 above my VFR...but the throttle is so bad, I'll take my VFR any day over this bike! Please don't think I'm trying to bash Ducati here---I'm not! I LOVE Ducati's! So it's with great sadness that I post this about the ST3, which in every other respect is a beautiful bike...but this issue totally spoiled it for me.

Scott

[marc11]

There is something wrong with that ST3, perhaps the TB's are out of synch or the bike is a bit lean (well if it is stock it is lean), but it shouldn't be as bad as you are describing.  While I cannot comment directly on the St3, with my ST4 I can feather and roll on or off the throttle with zero jerking or twitching.

Oh and the DL650 is so damn ugly to look at and or be seen on, near or even thinking about that I would take the ST3/4 with twitch throttle and all over it!

[keystonejenks]

Does Holly share your feelings on this matter? Just curious what he take on the ST3 is.

 

[SWriverstone]

Does Holly share your feelings on this matter? Just curious what he take on the ST3 is.

 

Honestly JJ, I don't know! I haven't mentioned my thoughts to her yet, 'cause I'm almost afraid to (don't want to "rain on her parade!") But it's so bad I feel like I have to say something and see what she thinks. I can tell you that though she hasn't expressed anything negative...she hasn't exactly been jumping up and down with joy---I seriously believe she's wishing she had another 748! And so far, I agree---the 748 just puts this particular ST3 to shame! (In terms of the overall riding experience.)

I dunno Marc11---you sound like you haven't ridden a DL650...'cause that engine is a precision instrument!  

I sincerely hope there is something wrong wth this ST3...because if not, then I'm gonna cry!

Scott

[bizarro]

 

I expect much huffing and puffing to ensue in this thread.

[SWriverstone]

I expect much huffing and puffing to ensue in this thread.

LOL, maybe so...but again: IT'S NOT ME!!!   I did NOT exaggerate even a tiny bit in my comments above. This ST3 has an INSANELY twitchy throttle! (I mean, it was so twitchy that sometimes, just cruising along at speed, the chain would literally jerk as the engine surged!)

Scott

[marc11]

Honestly JJ, I don't know! I haven't mentioned my thoughts to her yet, 'cause I'm almost afraid to (don't want to "rain on her parade!") But it's so bad I feel like I have to say something and see what she thinks. I can tell you that though she hasn't expressed anything negative...she hasn't exactly been jumping up and down with joy---I seriously believe she's wishing she had another 748! And so far, I agree---the 748 just puts this particular ST3 to shame! (In terms of the overall riding experience.)

I dunno Marc11---you sound like you haven't ridden a DL650...'cause that engine is a precision instrument!  

I sincerely hope there is something wrong wth this ST3...because if not, then I'm gonna cry!

Scott

Just busting the DL crowd, I am sure it is a fine running machine, but damn, that face  

I do think the bike may need some service, it just doesn't sound right to be that bad.  Is it still under warranty? (not sure if you purchased new or used), if new, I can say with My ST4 it had some slight surging, some off/on throttle jerkiness and would occasionally stall when coming to a stop, all cured at the 600 mile service and none ever returned.

Wasn't there a recall on the ST3, not sure if it was 2006 or 2007, but it had to do with the ECU and exhaust valve return spring?  Seemed to cause surging and tough riding conditions...

[SWriverstone]

Just busting the DL crowd, I am sure it is a fine running machine, but damn, that face  

I do think the bike may need some service, it just doesn't sound right to be that bad.  Is it still under warranty? (not sure if you purchased new or used), if new, I can say with My ST4 it had some slight surging, some off/on throttle jerkiness and would occasionally stall when coming to a stop, all cured at the 600 mile service and none ever returned.

Wasn't there a recall on the ST3, not sure if it was 2006 or 2007, but it had to do with the ECU and exhaust valve return spring?  Seemed to cause surging and tough riding conditions...

Thanks Marc---this is exactly the kind of information I'm hoping to gather for when we take the bike back to the dealer. I'm praying that there are some adjustments that need to be made that will smooth this out.

If I were comparing to any other bike than a 6th-gen VFR (which are infamous for twitchy throttles), I'd suspect maybe I'm just not accustomed to the ST3's throttle...but when it felt worse than the VFR, I know there's got to be something wrong!

Scott

[st ryder]

The throttle (non) issue can be worked out either mechanically or by practice. I found my throttle was "twitchy" until *I* got use to it. Squeeze it before you roll in on when exiting a corner, and learn which gear to use when, as the v-twin is NOT the same as your v-4 re grunt/revs, you don't need to shift down as much nor keep the revs as high. As far as I'm concerned, the issue is as much which a rider who needs to get to know the bike as with a bike that may need some adjustment. Give it time.  

[SWriverstone]

The throttle (non) issue can be worked out either mechanically or by practice. I found my throttle was "twitchy" until *I* got use to it. Squeeze it before you roll in on when exiting a corner, and learn which gear to use when, as the v-twin is NOT the same as your v-4 re grunt/revs, you don't need to shift down as much nor keep the revs as high. As far as I'm concerned, the issue is as much which a rider who needs to get to know the bike as with a bike that may need some adjustment. Give it time.  

You may be right...but again, I'm already accustomed to a twitchy throttle and have a VERY steady/smooth throttle touch. And I simply couldn't make the ST3 run smoothly at any times other than under constant acceleration. When maintaining 60mph in 3rd gear (around 5500-6K I think)...and holding the throttle rock-steady (I mean, making it a point not to move the throttle at all)...the engine was surging. It was very disconcerting!

It's as if moving the throttle .00000000001" causes the engine to LEAP or BRAKE! Crazy...

Scott

[VIVID1]

Wasn't there a recall on the ST3, not sure if it was 2006 or 2007, but it had to do with the ECU and exhaust valve return spring?  Seemed to cause surging and tough riding conditions...

That was on 2004's models maybe earlier ones as well, although my 2005 had the problem too because it was built early in the year.

Compared to a 996, both my ST3 and 900SS have an on/off throttle. My 954RR is very smooth in comparison. But nothing unpleasant, just something to get used to, so maybe there is something wrong with Holly’s bike.  

[VIVID1]

I found my throttle was "twitchy" until *I* got use to it.

Same here, the in-line-4's are very different form the twins, I almost think that the in-line-4’s are much easier to ride, they don’t require specific RPMs, such precise shifting like the L-twins. It took me a month to get used to the ST3 coming off the 954RR and to ride it the way it likes to be ridden.

If I test rode the ST3, I would have not bought it, I didn't like it at first and now I love it  

[photomd]

I agree that it could be as simple as how the bike is set up. I've worked on several bikes that were horrible when I got them: my airhead and a Vmax are two that come to mind. Anyway, go through them methodically and making sure they were tuned to spec made both nice bikes to ride.

That being said, the more I mess with FI bikes the more I realize they are incredibly lean to get through the EPA cert. A term UFO used that struck me is that they are "binary": on/off. Unfortunately as you lean any engine out, it gets snatchy. It doesn't matter if it's FI or carbs.

IMHO, I'd make sure everything is to spec: syched, valves, clean air filter. If that's OK, richening the mixture with a box that "fools" the computer into a more rich mixture is where I'd go next. I know this can be tedious, but if you assume everything is fine, then you don't "know" f'er sure...know what I mean?  

You've hit on one of the reason I enjoy doing my own work. While it takes me longer than a shop, I enjoy making a bike run correctly and learning how to do it.  

[VIVID1]

Maybe try test riding another ST3 to see if it's the same

Or meet Rick or me in Ohio/Ketucky or somewhere half way to swap bikes

[SWriverstone]

The dealer where we bought the bike is great---the owner is a great guy...although admittedly, I'd bet most of his experience is with Duc race bikes (since he was a racer).

I'd normally assume he would have taken this bike out and ridden it (and discovered the severe snatchiness himself)...but come to think of it, I think every mile on the bike was ridden by Holly (test ride + riding it home after buying it)...so I don't think the dealer could have ever known about it with this particular bike.

Scott

PS - I'd love to try another bike Anna! Maybe I can convince Holly to meet you guys somewhere...(An excuse for a trip!  )

[Mr. Squidward]

In ’06 Ducati went to a closed loop fuelling system on the ST3 with the addition of an O2 sensor.  Many owners have reported drivability problems (surging, stumbling ect.) on these bikes.  Some of these problems were reportedly cured by tuning, some by replacing the ECU with the D.P. version, and a few seemingly couldn’t be cured.
I suspect all could be fixed by a competent technician with the skill and patience to see the job through.  If you have a good dealer I’d bring the bike in and work with him until it’s right.

[Bodhi]

Nothing wrong with the throttle on my ST3. It's got power when I need it and no twitchiness. Nothing but ear-to-ear grins since I've had it. The couple of times I've switched bikes with a friend's VFR, the thing I noticed most was the VTEC jolting at unexpected times. I gotta think anyone complaining about the ST3's throttle response in comparison with the VFR must be the one smoking the crack.

[SWriverstone]

Nothing wrong with the throttle on my ST3. It's got power when I need it and no twitchiness. Nothing but ear-to-ear grins since I've had it. The couple of times I've switched bikes with a friend's VFR, the thing I noticed most was the VTEC jolting at unexpected times. I gotta think anyone complaining about the ST3's throttle response in comparison with the VFR must be the one smoking the crack.

Aaah but Bodhi...I know exactly where VTEC engages on my VFR...and I never engage it!   And if you consistently ride the VFR below VTEC, it is an absolutely SWEET bike!  

Scott

[Bodhi]

Aaah but Bodhi...I know exactly where VTEC engages on my VFR...and I never engage it!   And if you consistently ride the VFR below VTEC, it is an absolutely SWEET bike!  

Scott

So you never crank it over 6800 RPM?  

Hmmm, maybe if you regularly rode the ST3 you'd love it too.

Or as someone else suggested, maybe there's something that needs adjusting on her's.

[atypical1]

Aaah but Bodhi...I know exactly where VTEC engages on my VFR...and I never engage it!   And if you consistently ride the VFR below VTEC, it is an absolutely SWEET bike!  

Scott

But isn't that when the power kicks in? Why would you ride your bike out of the powerband?