Roll charts---huh?

[SWriverstone]

Can someone explain the reason for roll charts? I'm only asking because in this age of GPS's, well, a paper thingie with little wheels seems a bit archaic. I don't have anything against them, just curious.

It seems like it would be as much trouble (if not more) to design and print out lots of little skinny paper strips to load into the little thingies...as it would to just say "GPX file here---everybody download it!"

At first I thought maybe the roll charts are used on dirt 'cause they're more reliable? But my little Garmin eTrex Vista is pretty bombproof---I've dropped it a bunch of times, dunked it water, etc. and it keeps on ticking fine.

Or is it because roll charts are more resistant to full-on, 40mph crashes?

Or is it just an old tradition from pre-GPS days that doesn't want to go away?

Scott

[highside]

The only people I know that use rollcharts are running enduros or dualsport events. You use a roll chart because an even organizer can print one up and simply hand it to you, they cannot exactly hand you a GPS reciever and giving out a list of waypoints and waiting for people to program their GPS is going to take too long, plus a lot of people dont have GPS. For enduros the charts are used more for timing than for navigation, which isnt really a function that a GPS reciever is well suited for.

[kurtw]

Yep, and who said it's supposed to be easy...  
And where do you put the really useful info in a GPS, E.g.:



Seriously, trying to follow a simple route programmed into my GPS has never worked out the way it's supposed to. And I'm usually pretty good with that kind of gadgety stuff... The two go very well together in dualsport event navigation though.

[black hills]

I've never had any problems with a roll chart, although I have broken the holder in a crash before. it still worked, not sure what a GPS unit would have done? I find them very easy to use, you can roll forward or back on the fly and they are easy to read at a glance.

[R.Markus]

I used a roll chart while riding the TAT. It took about half a day to give up and just start following the guy in front of me with the GPS.

The roll charts for that particular ride are not that easy to follow, but I've seen some from DS rides that are very useful.

[black hills]

The only ones I have used are in Enduros. The course is usually marked fairly well, so they are mostly for time keeping purposes. Of course by about mile 70 I'm far enough behind that I can just ride as hard as I can and not worry about burning a check?

[cosmoose]

Little of "all of the above" going on here.  Rollcharts are cheap and easy for organizeras to make, require little investment on the part of the rider and are all perfectly compatible.  There are no wires, no plugs, and no batteries.

That said, one of the fellows who works with the Wabeno, WI rides that I frequent (Bryan "Cannonshot" from ADVRider) is working to supply GPS tracks for those rides.  He does it separately from the official organizers, but made himself available with a laptop and patch cords at the last ride.  

I imagine the technology will move, but slowly.  Asking why rollcharts exist is kind of like asking why books and newspapers still exist in an era of wireless internet and palm-held devices.  Sometimes paper is just easier.  

Dave

[black hills]

For Enduros anyway, there is no way I would want to waste the money on a GPS. I would surely smash it to bits, probably at every event?? The roll chart holder is $10 and the roll chart is $5. so it's cheap and works well enough for what I need. I would even be leary about mounting a GPS on my woods bike. It crashes about once a ride, I just don't think it would hold up?? A dual sport would be a different matter though.

[bluepoof]

A stupid question that I've always wondered about:

In kurtw's photo above as an example, does that mean "go straight for 6.68 miles on the main road, then turn left at mile 7.24 then right at 7.63 back onto the main road"?

I've never figured out whether the numbers mean how far you go or if it's what your tripmeter says or whether you turn at the symbol or just after the symbol or....

I'm rollchart stupid.  

[SWriverstone]

As Kurt said, I guess rollcharts are good for that "extra info." But regarding GPS's, a Garmin eTrex Vista series GPS is damn near indestructible. Now I'm only talking about the Vista series---not those little TV sets that most people use for GPS's!  

At hang gliding competitions (another sport I do), everyone has a GPS, and the event organizers have a laptop and a USB cable, and everyone lines up and gets the waypoints---it works fine. Event organizers could also easily post GPX files online before the event for people to download and futz with ahead of time. (And there are some excellent conversion utilities out there that will go between GPS makes, different mapping software, etc.)

I think the rollcharts are kinda cool, but using both just seems a bit overkill. Besides, how can I reset my odometer to zero if I only have one on the KLR??? I need it for a gas gauge!  

Scott

[SWriverstone]

A stupid question that I've always wondered about:

In kurtw's photo above as an example, does that mean "go straight for 6.68 miles on the main road, then turn left at mile 7.24 then right at 7.63 back onto the main road"?

I've never figured out whether the numbers mean how far you go or if it's what your tripmeter says or whether you turn at the symbol or just after the symbol or....

I'm rollchart stupid.  

LOL, I'm pretty sure the mileage is cumulative...though a standard format for bicycling cue sheets is to have 2 columns on the left---the first with total cumulative distance...and the second showing how far to the next turn point.

What I'd like to see is the official Paris-to-Dakar rollcharts!

Scott

EDIT: As a web usability geek, I can see HUGE potential for error in the way some rollcharts are designed. For example, you roll the paper UP...but the mileages increase as you look DOWN...and what the heck does an up or down arrow mean? Forward? Or backward?  

[black hills]

There are many different types of roll charts, there will be 4 or 5 to choose from at any given Enduro (the only time I have used them). Simply pick the one that makes the most sense to you. I always just get the one that has the time on the right and the mileage on the left. A quick glance tells me if I'm on time/slo/fast. AS for Bluepoofs Question, I'm not sure?? On the ones I've used the 6.68 and 7.24 would be odometer readings, but then the warning of a washout 1.1 miles ahead wouldn't make sense between 7.24 and 7.63???? So maybe that one is mileage?? I don't know. The best thing to do is look at the ones they have available at whatedver event yo attend and choose the one that makes the most sense to you. Good Luck

[highside]

A stupid question that I've always wondered about:

In kurtw's photo above as an example, does that mean "go straight for 6.68 miles on the main road, then turn left at mile 7.24 then right at 7.63 back onto the main road"?

I've never figured out whether the numbers mean how far you go or if it's what your tripmeter says or whether you turn at the symbol or just after the symbol or....

I'm rollchart stupid.  

Generally the numbers on the left refer to your odometer readings. When your odometer displays that number the desecribed event takes place. At least thats how i learned to do it, there are probably a few dozen other methods.