new to dual sporting - WR250R, XR650L, DRZ400S/E, DR650... KLR650???

[bpg]

Well, a friend was VERY kind and lent me his tagged XR650R for about a month - thus completely hooking me on riding dirt & street on the same bike.

Prior to this, my only dirt experience was riding around our back field a few times on a cousin's old XR350 - maybe 10 years ago!

Anyway, as we know the XRR is a beast of a dirt bike, and could probably climb trees if the rider had the skills to do so!  But I gotta face it - I'm not anywhere close to being able to match that bike's potential - and might not ever be.  So during a ride, I swapped with another friend to try his DR650.  Although the suspension was noticeably squishier, I actually felt a lot more confident on the DR on tight trails - lower height, softer power delivery (which I appreciated in that situation!), and E-start really made the dirt a lot less frantic and a lot more "fun", for me when on the DR.  On the street the DR was awesome - reminded me of several streetbikes I'd ridden and not really lacking in overall power.  Full gauges/factory legal is a bonus as well...

(don't get me wrong - lofting the front wheel at will or roosting up a power line over ANY terrain on the XRR was also fun - but man that thing was a PITA in the woods - for a newb like me!)

So based on this admittedly small pocket of experience, I'm wondering which D/S would best suit my needs:

- something that can do some fairly gnarly terrain (I don't care a whit about how FAST I ride through it - just that the bike CAN get through it).  I'm doing this recreationally/for fun - and I have a Blackbird for getting my adrenaline fixes!  

Does this exclude the KLR?  Are they really THAT piggish/poor on the dirt (remember - my point of reference is mostly street!)

- something that is street capable.  this is way more than just HP for me (heck, like I said I actually preferred the DR to the faster, yet more brutal XRR).  I wouldn't even mind thinking of this purchase as somewhat of an "adventure bike" that can go several hundreds of road miles a day.

Does this knock out the DRZ400??

- E-start.  Gotta have it.

- Cheap to buy & ridiculously cheap to maintain & service].  I want something simple as a rock and more reliable.  Always been a Honda guy, don't even know what a service bay looks like.  Sorry, but the Huskies and KTMs that are superior to Japanese bikes - on paper - just don't cut it for me in these two categories, from what I've read.  Especially not the "cheap to buy" part!  If not, I'd be wanting a Husky TE-610!

So of the bikes: XR650L, DRZ400S/E, DR650... KLR650 - which might best fit?

[garry]

DRZ400S, XR650L, DR650, KLR650 listed from most dirt-worthy to most road worthy. They're all a compromise of some sort. They can all be had for cheap if you shop around. An aftermarket gas tank from Clarke, Acerbis, etc will get you 200+ mile range. The seats all pretty much suck for really long days on the street. Not so bad on the dirt because you're standing up. Aftermarket seats are available. I've done 300+ miles of twisty two lane on my DRZ400S with the stock seat. The last hour or so wasn't much fun, but I wasn't a cripple at the end of the day either.

[RickC1957]

I didn't like Jammin's DR650....just not comfy....the KLR650 was a comfy couch compared to that...I have a friend with DRZ400.....but Suzuki and Honda ergos seem.....weird to me. The KLR650 with a 6.1 gallon tank rules...the DR650 with it's tiny 3.2 or 3.4 tank And the KLR had this awesome Pearl Green colour.

[Mac]

I have a drz 400s with around 7000 mostly offroad miles on it. I have yet to find any terrain that my friends crf250 could handle that the drz couldn't. I have run it in a 90 mile enduro, on 400 mile 2 day adventure tours, in tight woods, loose sand, california mountains and commuting 80 miles round trip at 75+ on the highway with no problems.
Yes there are other bikes more comfortable, others more off roadable, many much lighter, but none that could do all of what I can on the drz, especially for the money.

[bpg]

see, that's what I mean - I want a great ALL-ROUNDER - not the best/fastest dirtbike, or to replace the great sport-touring bike I already own..  Just something that does "pretty good" at lot of stuff, instead of great on dirt and miserable on road...

I really like the Z - seems reliable too!

[ViffrKlr]

The KLR is a tank when it comes to single track...been there, done that. It is great for everything else
as long as you're not fully loaded.
Since I don't do single track, I sold the KLR and IMHO upgraded to a KTM 640 Adventure. Less weight,
less cc's, more power, nice cushy seat/suspension, but just as tall if not a tad taller with the D606's.

[bahwolf]

The DR-Z400 is a very capable and reliable dualsport. It's about as dirt-worthy as you can get in a dualsport without getting into the type of maintenance schedule you'll find on the true dirtbikes/enduros which have had turn signals slapped on them. As for comfort, I've seen my buds ride 'em all day. Four of us did the Copper Canyon thing last year -- 2 were on DR-Z400's. RR is here: http://www.dm.net/~bahwolf/mex2007/mex2007.htm

[Mac]

The drz 400s with a corbin is nearly a iron butt contender.




Not quite, but way better than stock!!

[SLK50]

DRZ400S, XR650L, DR650, KLR650.......no real winners here. Street bikes dressed up in dirt bike clothing.
And some real technological dinosaurs to boot.
 It's a shame your so negatory on the Husky TE-610, in could conceivably run circles around the other four.
 To expect a Japanese designed bike ( after all, they aren't actually all made in Japan ) to be superior in terms of maintenance and serviceability is so archaic. The "always a Honda guy" song is getting old.
Compared to the other bikes I've owned my last Honda was a maintenance nightmare. Don't confuse repairability with reliability.
 As far as purchase price is concerned, all four of the Japanese bikes mentioned typically receive considerable upgrades to engine, suspension and frame to enhance their on- and off-road performance.
Their lower initial purchase price doesn't necessarily make them cheaper.
 Lastly, to truly ride off-road, where light weight and good suspension are your friends, places you at the opposite end the the spectrum from adventure-touring, where on-road comfort, range and the ability to carry larger loads suggest a larger, stouter bike. I don't think any of the four bikes mentioned split the difference as well as the TE-610.
 I not trying to be a smart-ass, but take a few moments to read some of XLR8's ride reports from Idaho and then ask yourself if you could talk him into trading for a Japanese bike. I doubt it.
Hey, it's late and I'm tired, so I'm posting this without proof reading it, I hope it makes sense.

[Frantik1]

Brendan, head over to  ADV rider and spend some time in the thumper section. There are threads for each bike you listed, and tons of info.
'07 DR650 owner myself.

[bahwolf]

No doubt, the Husky's a great bike. I wouldn't mind having one myself. But as an introductory bike for someone with little dirt experience ... I'd say overkill. He can pick up a used low-mileage DR-Z400 for just a little over 3 grand. After a couple years on that, if he's really pushing its envelope in the dirt, he can get most of his money back out of it and upgrade to something like the TE.

Just my 2 cents. I don't own a DR-Z. Never plan to. But it's a reliable machine, as are all of the others mentioned in this thread. Not sure what your beef is with the Jap bikes, but thousands will tell you otherwise if you're saying they're unreliable.

[kurtw]

It's all about the tradeoffs. From the OP, it honestly sounds like you haven't narrowed down your requirements enough to make a decision on any basis besides price. And that's fine. You could choose any of these bikes from the used market and spend some more time figuring out what you like to do. And once you have any bike, how you set it up (gearing, tires, etc) will allow you to optimize it to one thing or another.

My own very personal take is that I'd rather ride a DRZ on the road than a KLR in the woods.  

Even the Husqvarnas seem to have a growing used market (I've been looking....   ) and it's a good time to be shopping

[bpg]

DRZ400S, XR650L, DR650, KLR650.......no real winners here. Street bikes dressed up in dirt bike clothing.
And some real technological dinosaurs to boot.
 It's a shame your so negatory on the Husky TE-610, in could conceivably run circles around the other four.
 To expect a Japanese designed bike ( after all, they aren't actually all made in Japan ) to be superior in terms of maintenance and serviceability is so archaic. The "always a Honda guy" song is getting old.
Compared to the other bikes I've owned my last Honda was a maintenance nightmare. Don't confuse repairability with reliability.
 As far as purchase price is concerned, all four of the Japanese bikes mentioned typically receive considerable upgrades to engine, suspension and frame to enhance their on- and off-road performance.
Their lower initial purchase price doesn't necessarily make them cheaper.
 Lastly, to truly ride off-road, where light weight and good suspension are your friends, places you at the opposite end the the spectrum from adventure-touring, where on-road comfort, range and the ability to carry larger loads suggest a larger, stouter bike. I don't think any of the four bikes mentioned split the difference as well as the TE-610.
 I not trying to be a smart-ass, but take a few moments to read some of XLR8's ride reports from Idaho and then ask yourself if you could talk him into trading for a Japanese bike. I doubt it.
Hey, it's late and I'm tired, so I'm posting this without proof reading it, I hope it makes sense.

I understand what you're saying, but:

- Frankly, the 610 is out of my budget.  I have no shame in admitting that, but even if it were (and trust me, I was eyeing them on ebay), it's really too much like the XRR - way more than what I want or need, with my limited skills.  

- Also, I'm looking at used XRL/DR/DRZ - most the upgrades you mentioned are "nearly free" when buying these bikes used, since accessories add little value to a used bike price.

- If the 610 is anything as rip-snortin' as the XRR on trails, I feel it'd be a lot to handle for a newb (though that magic button would save me a lot of grief!).  

Really, I'm just looking for a 2-wheeled jeep.  A tractor.  Something fun and simple (I have another bike that's technology-laden and fast - kinda looking for a contrast!).  I want something that other bikes "run circles" around, while I chug along with a dumb grin on my face...

Something I can disappear to the mountains with for a few weeks in the summer (I teach!) and just mosey around all over trails and backroads, with the occasional gnarly singletrack.  Hell, something to tug a deer out of the woods in the fall, LOL!

Remember, I'm new at this.  I might love it and love the speed eventually, at which a KTM 525 or Husky 610 would be great!!  Just not yet...

Anyway, not poo-pooing your thoughts, they are excellent!  I just want to explain why I boiled it down to the 4 (well, 3!) bikes in the title, for MY current desires...

[bpg]

My own very personal take is that I'd rather ride a DRZ on the road than a KLR in the woods.  

That's the kind of stuff that's good to know, LOL!  thx.

[mtrider16]

From what I've seen I don't think you can go wrong with any of the three bikes.  Unless you want long range touring/adventure riding, I think the KLR is out of the picture.

my $.02,

David

[Yamadog]

The only one of the lot I have experience with is the KLR. For off-road meaning off pavement, it is okay for fire roads, acceptable for jeep roads, but your requirement

something that can do some fairly gnarly terrain

I'd not really recommend it for that. I did some single track--it's a lot of work on a KLR.

[RickC1957]

Interesting info guys I need to ride all 4 bikes back to back before I pick a bike for the ride to Alaska with Jammin. All I know is I immediately fell in   with the KLR. It spoke to me

[phoenix]

Interesting info guys I need to ride all 4 bikes back to back before I pick a bike for the ride to Alaska with Jammin. All I know is I immediately fell in   with the KLR. It spoke to me

your requirements are significantly different from bpg, unless you intend to ride trails all the way to Alaska. I'm just sayin'.

[ViffrKlr]

Interesting info guys I need to ride all 4 bikes back to back before I pick a bike for the ride to Alaska with Jammin. All I know is I immediately fell in   with the KLR. It spoke to me

Nothing wrong with the KLR and going to Alaska. It's perfectly capable and fun on the gravel roads
like the Denali highway, Top Of The World Highway and Dempster highway. Just don't expect to
go really fast when fully loaded, and forget about passing when going uphill.

[jeffohray]

BPG,

IMO, the only real advantages to the KLR is the that it is better suited for longer highway rides and a lot of after market support.  
I have a 04 KLR and I'm coming to the realization that I really don't need the range that it offers. Most of my rides consist of, at most, 50 miles of pavement, followed by dirt riding so I really don't need what it offers. The DR, DRZ or maybe the 09KLX is a better match for what I do.
If I were doing a fair amount of highway miles or weekend trips I think the KLR would be the best.

jeff

[SLK50]

bpg, you response to my earlier post has somewhat tempered the statements made in your original post: specifically leaving out the adventure-touring requirements.
 If your reply honestly describes your DS needs then I heartily suggest taking a long hard look at the Kaw KLX250S. New or used it would be in the same price range as the others but much more dirt friendly.
 Relatively light weight and decent suspenion for the dirt and the wide ratio 6 speed trans helps on the street. You won't feel so much like your wrestling a bear when it's lying on top of you.
 Don't let others or your ego tell you that 250cc isn't enough; a dig bore DS can become a real handful off road and get in your way of having a good time.
 My recommendation of the Husky was taking into consideration long highway stints, for which it is better suited than the KLX. If that isn't of paramount importance to you then I again defer to the KLX.
 I am very interested in the info in this thread as I am asking myself the same questions and toiling with the same answers.

[SLK50]

Just my 2 cents. I don't own a DR-Z. Never plan to. But it's a reliable machine, as are all of the others mentioned in this thread. Not sure what your beef is with the Jap bikes, but thousands will tell you otherwise if you're saying they're unreliable.

No no no. You misunderstood. I wasn't saying Jap bikes aren't reliable, they certainly are, the industry benchmark. What I meant was that non-Japanese bikes are often perceived as unreliable, difficult to service, or that parts are expensive or hard to obtain. As a broad generalization that simply is no longer true. KTM's market share, for example, is growing exponetially. That certainly isn't because they're "unreliable".
And the fact that there isn't a dealer nearby shouldn't be a deterrent either.
My parts dept is only as far as the nearest keyboard. ( If not available locally )

[RickC1957]

Nothing wrong with the KLR and going to Alaska. It's perfectly capable and fun on the gravel roads
like the Denali highway, Top Of The World Highway and Dempster highway. Just don't expect to
go really fast when fully loaded, and forget about passing when going uphill.

I'll keep that in my mind....my intention is riding 70% street and 30% gravel/logging roads...etc.

[Albie]

I agree with SLK50 The KLX is the bike that meets your requirements the best. Not sure why it's not on your list, assuming since you're new to all this you just don't know about the bike.

[bahwolf]

No no no. You misunderstood. I wasn't saying Jap bikes aren't reliable, they certainly are, the industry benchmark.

You're right, I misunderstood. Sorry 'bout that.

Regarding the KLX250S, it's an excellent choice, but I think a lot of riders outgrow them rather quickly. They decide they want more power for offroad work or they decide they need more top end for the pavement half of their dualsport riding. I've watched friends do all day pavement rides on KLR250's and Super Sherpas. While my Dakar and everyone else's KLR650's (cause EVERYBODY has one of those ugly beasts   ) are lugging along comfortably at 60 and 70 mph, the l'il 250's are really wound up. When we get to the dirt, it's generally more about who is and is not an experienced rider, more so than it is about who has the more dirt-worthy bike (speaking in terms of dualsporting, not hardcore single-track dirtbiking). And the last guy I rode with who had a KLX250S broke his sub-frame. Probably just a fluke ... but adding it as a data point anyway.

[SLK50]

While my Dakar and everyone else's KLR650's (cause EVERYBODY has one of those ugly beasts   ) are lugging along comfortably at 60 and 70 mph, the l'il 250's are really wound up.

 It's a shame that in this market we have to choose one or the other. What we really need is a bike that splits the difference: a 400 -450cc bike that's capable both on and off road.
 And no, the DR-Z400S isn't it. It's handicapped by it's close ratio 5 speed tranny. If you gear it for the street it bogs in the dirt, if you gear it for dirt it screams on the street. And it's frame doesn't really support side and top cases or bags that an Adventure-Tourer requires.
 The Big Four all currently make modern 450cc 4-stroke enduro bikes, I wish just one of them would take the plunge and offer it as a DS.
 About 8 yrs ago we got a look at the future with the intro of the DR-Z. That future is now and we need more choices. Enough already with the same old same old!

[bpg]

I agree with SLK50 The KLX is the bike that meets your requirements the best. Not sure why it's not on your list, assuming since you're new to all this you just don't know about the bike.

Yip, I definitely checked the KLX250...  To be honest, even the 650's are a REAL stark contrast to my bagged XX for touring - especially on 100+, 200+ miles of highway, even on occasion.  Not sure that even the 6th gear on a 250 would cut it for the street aspect - I suppose I should try one though.

[garry]

The TE610 is the new DRZ. But it's not cheap.

For those on a budget, the DRZ gets the job done if you're OK with only doing low 70s (indicated). My DRZ will run that all day long on the street and is pretty smooth there. Any faster and it feels like I'm wringing its neck. Dirt Bagz (soft luggage) and a rear rack to bolt a tailbag on gets it done for luggage ($350 plus tailbag). A Clarke 4 gallon tank gives it 200+ mile range ($175).

Works for me. YMMV... Wish I had a TE610 though...

[kurtw]

Question: What does it mean on the Husqvarna website when it says "DOT legal" for the TE450 and  TE510. I don't see mirrors, blinkers, etc.
Not Big Four and not cheap. But I could have sworn one of the guys I rode dualsport with a couple weekends ago said his TE450 was factory street legal.

[SLK50]

 Hushy's TE-250, 450 & 510 ( along with KTM's EXC 450 & 525 ) are competition ready, serious dirt bikes that are just legal enough to keep you out of trouble ( jail!   ) on those occasions when you find yourself on paved roads. Think of running into town to get gas while on the Trans-Smerica Trail.
 These "race bikes with lights" really lean waaaayyy over on the dirt bike side of DS equation and are suitable for experienced dirt riders who see little road riding, saving that for their other ( street ) bike.
 Better for Last Man Standing than Adventure-Touring.

[kurtw]

 Hushy's TE-250, 450 & 510 ( along with KTM's EXC 450 & 525 ) are competition ready, serious dirt bikes that are just legal enough to keep you out of trouble ( jail!   ) on those occasions when you find yourself on paved roads. Think of running into town to get gas while on the Trans-Smerica Trail.
 These "race bikes with lights" really lean waaaayyy over on the dirt bike side of DS equation and are suitable for experienced dirt riders who see little road riding, saving that for their other ( street ) bike.
 Better for Last Man Standing than Adventure-Touring.

Right, so i guess the Husky site is just not showing the legal dodads on the bikes for marketing purposes...  I was just trying to figure out what Husqvarna specifically sold in the TE line.

Anyway, all same is true of the non-DOT Big-Four 450s. If they were submitted for DOT, they would also be race bikes with lights, for good or bad.

[bahwolf]

 Hushy's TE-250, 450 & 510 ( along with KTM's EXC 450 & 525 ) are competition ready, serious dirt bikes that are just legal enough to keep you out of trouble ( jail!   ) on those occasions when you find yourself on paved roads. Think of running into town to get gas while on the Trans-Smerica Trail.
 These "race bikes with lights" really lean waaaayyy over on the dirt bike side of DS equation and are suitable for experienced dirt riders who see little road riding, saving that for their other ( street ) bike.
 Better for Last Man Standing than Adventure-Touring.

True. And you can add that maintenance on the true enduros like these is such that you won't want to be racking up mega-miles droning along on the pavement. I've taken my 450X and made it "street safe" (not street LEGAL) by adding a brake light, mirror, speedometer, etc, but I've only done that so I can scoot about a bit on back country roads getting from one trailhead to another or in and out of small towns for gas and munchies. With 30 hour/600 mile oil changes (half that if you follow the maintenance schedule recommended for a 450X that's being raced/ridden as it's intended (I actually split the difference on mine)), frequent valve adjustments and top end jobs, it's just not practical to treat these bikes like more dualsport-oriented machines.

For what it is -- a machine you can go 3-4,000 miles between oil changes or 7,500 miles between valve adjustments (I honestly don't know what Suzuki prescribes here, but experience tells me that guess is probably in the ballpark) or 35,000 miles without a top end job -- the DR-Z does very well as a dualsport that falls on the hypothetical "Scale of Compromise" nearer the dirt end than, say, the F650, KLR, and others.

[Albie]

The Big Four all currently make modern 450cc 4-stroke enduro bikes, I wish just one of them would take the plunge and offer it as a DS.
 

If I had to guess,  I'd say Yamaha might be coming out with a tamer street legal WR 450 with FI next year.

[Albie]

 Better for Last Man Standing than Adventure-Touring.

LOL, I wouldn't go that far. It's very doubtful given todays technology that a 4T is gonna finish a Last Man Standing enduro.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

You have two choices if you're comparing the DS bikes available to the XRR.  That's it.  The TE-610 and the LC4.  You will be disappointed by anything else.  The KLR, DR, DRz, XRL all suffer by leaps and bounds by comparison both ON and OFF road.

Honestly, get the XRR and do the DS thing.  You'll be happier if you can live with a kickstart (which I happen to really enjoy).  You can go further offroad with your DS machine, but you begin to pay a price in maintenance and/or higher speed streetabilty.  The XRR is FAR easier to get around offroad; especially when you start dropping things.  Also, while I know that magic button is a wonderful thing most often, when you get out in the woods, dropping, etc. it is really easy to kill that battery.  Where are you then?  Only the LC4 and XRR have the kicker to get you home.  You're not going to bump/pull start a bike that only has e-start out in the wild on gnarly terrain.

One more thing; my XRR has lowering links on it, which put it just a touch taller than the DR650.  You should strongly look into this.  In fact, if I like my XRR with the stock links put back in, I'll let you know and you can get the lowering links from me.

However, from what you've said, the two I mentioned earlier would be best.  Just keep in mind that the XRR is also a better ROAD bike (as are the Husky and KTM) as well as being a better offroad bike.  The Husky will be a little more 'honda-ish' reliable for maintenance though.

I think you have one major misconception to overcome too:  more power offroad makes a bike EASIER to ride.  You can loft the front wheel with a lot less clutchwork and body english.  You can power your way through muck and deep sandy stuff.  The only downside to more power in the offroad arena is that it comes with a weight penalty in most cases.  However, in the cases of the XRR, TE, and LC4, you not only gain power but lose weight compared to the other bikes you're looking at.  Your inexperience is really your undoing.  It isn't like buying a Hayabusa as a first bike, it's more like being handed a brand new Honda S2000 instead of a rat-trap VW Bug convertible.  Sure, they both get you to the corner store, and are both topless, but they're entirely different animals otherwise, and one is far superior to the other without being a 'killer'.

Read my posting on 'how I learned to love a kicker' http://:http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,22107.0.html

[Johnny Monsoon]

No doubt, the Husky's a great bike. I wouldn't mind having one myself. But as an introductory bike for someone with little dirt experience ... I'd say overkill. He can pick up a used low-mileage DR-Z400 for just a little over 3 grand. After a couple years on that, if he's really pushing its envelope in the dirt, he can get most of his money back out of it and upgrade to something like the TE.

Just my 2 cents. I don't own a DR-Z. Never plan to. But it's a reliable machine, as are all of the others mentioned in this thread. Not sure what your beef is with the Jap bikes, but thousands will tell you otherwise if you're saying they're unreliable.

I disagree; everything that makes the Husky great offroad makes it even better on-road.  Also, you can get a clean Husky for right around the $4K range.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Question: What does it mean on the Husqvarna website when it says "DOT legal" for the TE450 and  TE510. I don't see mirrors, blinkers, etc.
Not Big Four and not cheap. But I could have sworn one of the guys I rode dualsport with a couple weekends ago said his TE450 was factory street legal.

Like KTM bikes, they come with the street kits available.  Up to you to decide if you want them put on.

[bpg]

Um, Johnny - go re-read post 1.  XRR - tried it, didn't like it - overall.  With a few year's experience?  Might love it to death for all aspects of dual sporting!  Just not now.

At this point, I don't want the "ultimate bad-ass race-bike with blinkers".  I want mellow, I just want to learn, I want easy (without getting TOO pedestrian, hence no KLR)  

I guess in a street analogy, I'm the guy who is (gulp) happy with a faster cruiser vs a much more sophisticated ST bike - just to get a feel for things for a while...  Yeah, the ST is better in all ways, and actually safer if ridden HARD.  I ain't gonna be moto-crossing anytime soon, LOL!

Plus, you need to ride that XRR East Coast-style before you pass judgement on what an "easy" trail is for that bike, LOL!  Big difference threading 120 degree bends uphill around trees all day, vs using big power to loft a front wheel across some rough terrain in TX..

For a dumbass newb like me, huge power + tight trails = no fun.  Ain't skeered to admit it.

[garry]

I would just shop for a deal on a pre-farkled DRZ400S, DR650 or XR650L for $3000 or so. They'll all get the job done for what you want to do. Let the deal dictate which one you end up buying.

[bpg]

I would just shop for a deal on a pre-farkled DRZ400S, DR650 or XR650L for $3000 or so. They'll all get the job done for what you want to do. Let the deal dictate which one you end up buying.

ah, that thought has crossed my mind!

C'moooon tax refund!!!!

[bahwolf]

I disagree; everything that makes the Husky great offroad makes it even better on-road.  Also, you can get a clean Husky for right around the $4K range.

Johnny, I think you misread something, cause you're obviously not disagreeing with anything in that statement of mine you quoted. I never said anything about the Husky's on-road capabilities, good or bad. I made the statement that, for a beginner with little dirt experience, the TE610 was overkill, and I went on to say that he could buy a used DR-Z for considerably less money, get some experience, then later get back what he'd invested in the DR-Z and apply it towards something like the Husky if he was interested.  

[bahwolf]

I would just shop for a deal on a pre-farkled DRZ400S, DR650 or XR650L for $3000 or so. They'll all get the job done for what you want to do. Let the deal dictate which one you end up buying.

That's exactly what I was trying to say.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

Um, Johnny - go re-read post 1.  XRR - tried it, didn't like it - overall.  With a few year's experience?  Might love it to death for all aspects of dual sporting!  Just not now.

At this point, I don't want the "ultimate bad-ass race-bike with blinkers".  I want mellow, I just want to learn, I want easy (without getting TOO pedestrian, hence no KLR)  

I guess in a street analogy, I'm the guy who is (gulp) happy with a faster cruiser vs a much more sophisticated ST bike - just to get a feel for things for a while...  Yeah, the ST is better in all ways, and actually safer if ridden HARD.  I ain't gonna be moto-crossing anytime soon, LOL!

Plus, you need to ride that XRR East Coast-style before you pass judgement on what an "easy" trail is for that bike, LOL!  Big difference threading 120 degree bends uphill around trees all day, vs using big power to loft a front wheel across some rough terrain in TX..

For a dumbass newb like me, huge power + tight trails = no fun.  Ain't skeered to admit it.

Again, umm, you're kind of killin' yourself with your ideas about what makes a bike easy to ride.

You can chug along all day in 1st on a powerful bike, but on a lower powered bike you'll be tap-dancing like crazy & burnin your clutch.  On a more 'factory' ds bike, you'll suffer lousy gearing to accomplish better highway manners; this also means difficulty on tighter trails (especially for the bikes you mentioned).

If you didn't like the XRR on tight trails in the east (grew up in VA; used to ride through the woods all the time in the tidal area) then you're going to absolutely HATE/LOATHE/DESPISE the bigger bikes with less power.  Going more mellow is not the way to go.  It'll only make things worse for you.  It is a lot harder to control greater weight/mass with less power available.  It's way more difficult to get out of sticky/mucky situations with a heavy, underpowered bike too.  AND, the lack of suspension on those bikes make you work where the bike would otherwise be giving you a pass.  Good suspension makes up for a TON of rider error.  My XRR makes me MUCH better than I actually am.

If you want a light bike, with moderate power, get a KLX250S.  It seems to be the only bike that'll meet all your needs; and you can re-jug it to a 300cc powerplant.  I also did a review of this bike early in this dirt section.  Read it!

[Mach VIII]

Johnny, I'm not sure why you can't get this through your head (helmet still on???), but he doesn't like the damned XR650R.    We're all glad that you've "found Jesus" on yours, but give it a rest already.  The bike simply doesn't meet his particular wants/needs.  It's way tall for him, lacks electric start, has no gauges or instrumentation, no charging system for accessories, no subframe to support luggage, has a miserable motocross-like seat, lacks necessary lighting, plus he'd have to screw with trying to get it titled & registered for street use.  I'm sure when he's ready to compete in the Baja 1000 it'll be on his short list though.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

Johnny, I'm not sure why you can't get this through your head (helmet still on???), but he doesn't like the damned XR650R.    We're all glad that you've "found Jesus" on yours, but give it a rest already.  The bike simply doesn't meet his particular wants/needs.  It's way tall for him, lacks electric start, has no gauges or instrumentation, no charging system for accessories, no subframe to support luggage, has a miserable motocross-like seat, lacks necessary lighting, plus he'd have to screw with trying to get it titled & registered for street use.  I'm sure when he's ready to compete in the Baja 1000 it'll be on his short list though.  

I never was trying to sell him the XRR.  Never.  I was pretty sure I'd made that abundantly clear by supporting other bikes for him to buy that WEREN'T the XRR.  He doesn't get the kicker thing, I get that.  Power scares him.  I get that too.  The problem is that he's equating power and 'full bore' suspension performance with things that make a bike MORE difficult to ride.  The exact opposite is true.  I also recommended the KLX250S which meets every one of his requirements.  I also suggested the TE-610, which meets all of his requirements just a little better.  I was using the bike he's been riding as a comparison though; that way he has a direct reference for what I'm telling him.  If the OP is complaining about muscling the XRR around on a tight trail, he's gonna hate any of the other bikes in short order.  I wouldn't try comparing and contrasting a KTM LC4 because he has no experience on one.  He has, however, ridden an XRR, so he's got a good frame of reference when I'm making comparisons when I mention that.  Groovy how that works, huh?

However, since we're walking down this little avenue of yours:  The XRRs can easily be found with full lighting kits (and are very likely street legal where he lives, due to the fact that he was riding one) for $2.5-5K.  I've got a lowering link on mine that puts it right about the same height as a DR650 in low mode (he can have it if he decides to go for the XRR for some reason).  There are a couple of companies that make electric starters for the machine, and the subframe can handle modest luggage; there are many aftermarket subframe and rack companies that make systems for the XRR for very little money.  It is fully reasonable that A PERSON THAT LIKES THE XRR could easily get one fully street-legal and adventure-tour ready for around $5k or less.  But that's me informing you, not trying to sell the OP on it.  

[mtrider16]

We're all glad that you've "found Jesus" on yours, but give it a rest already.

 

Mach VIII, I'm guessing you haven't listen to Johnny talk about bikes he likes before!  He is always verbose and very passionate about his bikes.  I have to say that I like reading what he says, even if I disagree.

BPG, after listening to this conversation, the DRZ400 will probably be the best bike, although if you want to get some experience on a lighter bike, I saw a nice right-up on a 250 Kaw awhile back.  

I have riden my friends DRZ when we went on a ride exploring some gravel roads around here.  I like the extra torque my BRP has, but the DRZ did just fine by my estimation.  I would prefer the DRZ in the tighter trails.

David.

[R.Markus]

Mach VIII, I'm guessing you haven't listen to Johnny talk about bikes he likes before!

Yeah, he tends to find jesus a lot.

[Johnny Monsoon]

 

Mach VIII, I'm guessing you haven't listen to Johnny talk about bikes he likes before!  He is always verbose and very passionate about his bikes.  I have to say that I like reading what he says, even if I disagree.

BPG, after listening to this conversation, the DRZ400 will probably be the best bike, although if you want to get some experience on a lighter bike, I saw a nice right-up on a 250 Kaw awhile back.  

I have riden my friends DRZ when we went on a ride exploring some gravel roads around here.  I like the extra torque my BRP has, but the DRZ did just fine by my estimation.  I would prefer the DRZ in the tighter trails.

David.

David, this isn't really directed at you specifically, so please don't be offended.  The thought that anyone would think I'm always 'finding Jesus' is beyond odd to me; especially since so many folks thought I bashed the XX relentlessly and are under the impression that I hated it.  I got pretty beat up here for it!

The only reason I didn't recommend the DRz is that it is either good on the highway with re-gearing or good in singletrack with re-gearing, but never good for both.  The KLX250S does better in both situations despite it's lower output (now the third time I've recommended THIS bike, and the first bike I recommended after suggesting that the DS'd XRR could be an option for various reasons).  The TE-610 (which I've now recommended 3 solid times in this thread) is very close to the two lower displacement bikes, has a good soft power delivery, but also has greater power for highway duty.  The increase in power makes it more tractable off road, while being able to maintain a taller gearset for highway cruising.  Ditto for the KTM (again, now the third time recommended).  The XRR?  I have suggested that the bike might work for him with some modification ONE TIME, but only after recommending two others.

It seems to me that folks read the first paragraph of my first response, then as soon as I mentioned the XRR they simply stopped reading and started inferring.

Don't paint me a 'buy MY bike' kind of guy.  You can't do it with this post, and I have always gone out of my way to avoid that.  The KLX, Versys, TE, KTM, Sprint ST, Ninja650R, and DR650 are all bikes I'm frequently recommending though I have never owned any of them.  I don't have a problem pointing out what features on my bikes work better than other bikes, nor do I have a problem pointing out how my bikes fall short of other bikes.

A lot of this guy's problem is that he's too new to know what bike does what.  A lightweight bike that'll all the other bikes will run circles around (his words) isn't going to get him down the highway at anything but modest legal speeds (if that).  Heck, the first part of his requirements would equal something like a TW200, but then he follows up with a requirement that can really only be filled by a much bigger and more sophisticated bike.  If he wants a bike that is EASY TO TRAILRIDE then he needs to look at a bike that has more advanced suspension with a greater suspension travel.  It's kind of black and white.  If he also wants that bike to be a good highway bike, he's going to need some displacement.  If he wants that highway-able bike to be good offroad, it'll need good suspension and light weight... when you do that you substantially cut down on appropriate and available bikes to just a handful of units (which have been mentioned).  The TE-610 tops that list (4 times now).

So, let's do a quick recommendation count:

XRR=1
KLX250S=3
TE-610=4
LC4=3

Zealot, I'm not.

[XLR8]

It doesn't matter to me what people buy just have fun.  

However, I got my Husky new last year for $6000. For what you get I think that's pretty cheap. I was going to get a DR-Z but I figured if I was going to spend $5000+ I might as well spend $1000 more and get the 610.

Now about it being for a beginner. Although I've been Mt. Biking for 20+ years the 610 is my first offroad bike. What I like about it on the trail is not the power but the torque and manageability of the engine. First gear on the 610 is like a tractor. You don't have to wind it out; Just a little clutch maintenance and up you go. This allows me to concentrate on technique and a build pace with experience. Combine that with the fact that I like to ride out to the trails or whatever and it's the perfect DS bike...for me.

I added a 5 gallon tank last year and I can leave my doorstep on a summer morning and be in bliss all day. I just wish some of you guys were closer so we could all ride together.  

[bpg]

FWIW I'd like a TE-610 to be on the consideration list...  But like I said earlier it's WAY out of my budget

[Johnny Monsoon]

FWIW I'd like a TE-610 to be on the consideration list...  But like I said earlier it's WAY out of my budget

Are you really wanting a new bike?  If not, there are some great advantages to a used Husky vs. a new one.  The first, of course, is price.  You can get a used Husky for around $4K.  Good news for you is that they don't hold their value well.

Another great bit of news is that the pre '08 models are carb'd.  While I like EFI it does pose one particular problem; there is an internal-tank fuel pump which isn't something aftermarket tank manufacturers are ready to start production on.  So, the older ones can be easily (and relatively cheaply) fitted with a larger tank for extended riding.

The Husky is a very unique animal in the DS world.  It offers extraordinarily good offroad manners while still being a practical and comfortable commuter.  They're quite reliable and offer very good specifications everywhere.  It's like getting a Mercedes Benz for Toyota pricing.  Even if you're just riding it to and from work 90% of the time, why wouldn't you get a much nicer vehicle for similar money?  The very slight increase in price (even used vs. new) you'll spend on the Husky will be much more valuable in the long run.

One final thing about getting a used Husky is that you'll probably be able to unload it if you want to decide it isn't for you, and you won't take a bath on the price.  The first owner is really the only one who'll pay that hefty buy-in depreciation.  After that, you'll be able to turn it over to folks who understand what the bike is, and will be willing (and happy) to pay that second-owner exit fee.

Take a hard look at that bike; it really does fit your needs better than the others, and you should note that I'm not the only person to suggest that particular bike.

[Mach VIII]

I never was trying to sell him the XRR.  Never.  I was pretty sure I'd made that abundantly clear by supporting other bikes for him to buy that WEREN'T the XRR.  He doesn't get the kicker thing, I get that.  Power scares him.  I get that too.  The problem is that he's equating power and 'full bore' suspension performance with things that make a bike MORE difficult to ride.  The exact opposite is true.  I also recommended the KLX250S which meets every one of his requirements.  I also suggested the TE-610, which meets all of his requirements just a little better.  I was using the bike he's been riding as a comparison though; that way he has a direct reference for what I'm telling him.  If the OP is complaining about muscling the XRR around on a tight trail, he's gonna hate any of the other bikes in short order.  I wouldn't try comparing and contrasting a KTM LC4 because he has no experience on one.  He has, however, ridden an XRR, so he's got a good frame of reference when I'm making comparisons when I mention that.  Groovy how that works, huh?

However, since we're walking down this little avenue of yours:  The XRRs can easily be found with full lighting kits (and are very likely street legal where he lives, due to the fact that he was riding one) for $2.5-5K.  I've got a lowering link on mine that puts it right about the same height as a DR650 in low mode (he can have it if he decides to go for the XRR for some reason).  There are a couple of companies that make electric starters for the machine, and the subframe can handle modest luggage; there are many aftermarket subframe and rack companies that make systems for the XRR for very little money.  It is fully reasonable that A PERSON THAT LIKES THE XRR could easily get one fully street-legal and adventure-tour ready for around $5k or less.  But that's me informing you, not trying to sell the OP on it.  

God, and I thought I was verbose.  You seem to have a staggering ability to type so very much, yet say so very little that is of utility.

Try sticking to the topic - recommendations based upon the bikes listed at the beginning of the thread.  He's looking for a used DS that he can dink around with on and offroad on a budget.  The TE-610, while no doubt a great bike, ain't cheap.  Nor have I seen cheap used ones.  The 250 Kawi is just too small for road-going duty as he's described.  And yes, if you spend enough money you can eventually make an XR650R into something it isn't (and certainly you weren't telling me anything I didn't know already).  I'm pretty sure he's not looking to spend the $5000 you specified to do so though.  A used version of one of the bikes specified can be had for around $3000 and often less and will already have all the things you'd have to add onto a 650R - even if they don't have the added power and better suspension.

And another thing, I think it's rather obnoxious of you to say that he's "afraid" of the power the 650R has (unlike a big manly man such as yourself) - he simply doesn't want or need it for his intended usage.

Now I've no doubt you'll launch into another long diatribe here in response, but if you could, at least try to include a useful "compare & contrast" of the bikes listed in the thread topic based upon your ACTUAL experience.  Maybe put that part in a different color font so we can easily fast forward to it too.  [smootches]

[bpg]

Just to clarify (and maybe this is why Johnny is so confused??), I'm looking to get something CHEAP & USED - that's why it's down to the bikes in question.  REAL cheap, but hopefully not TOO used

Oh, and yeah, the power on the XRR was a riot (I ride an XX, remember??), but the "lowly" DR650 had more than enough grunt (torque, baby!), delivered a little more smoothly on steep woods trails, to scoot me along.  At least, that was my very own experience, having rode both bikes back-to-back - but what do I know?!?

That said, if I can score a TE-610 for like $2500, I'd be on that deal like a bear on a beehive.  Not gonna happen though.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Just to clarify (and maybe this is why Johnny is so confused??), I'm looking to get something CHEAP & USED - that's why it's down to the bikes in question.  REAL cheap, but hopefully not TOO used

Oh, and yeah, the power on the XRR was a riot (I ride an XX, remember??), but the "lowly" DR650 had more than enough grunt (torque, baby!), delivered a little more smoothly on steep woods trails, to scoot me along.  At least, that was my very own experience, having rode both bikes back-to-back - but what do I know?!?

That said, if I can score a TE-610 for like $2500, I'd be on that deal like a bear on a beehive.  Not gonna happen though.

I agree with the XRR being a riot (and look at my avatar; I too rode an XX).  Still, please consider the following:

You can get a KLX250S for 3K.  I know of an '05 (maybe '06) DR650 for $2500 out here.  The title is salvage because they replaced the forks, but it runs perfectly and goes down the road straight at the ton.   Of the 600cc classed DS bikes from the big 4, the DR has my solid vote.  The particular one I mention is a really sweet deal; everything is new for a very used price.

Just make sure you don't get one too cheap.  When you were saying 'inexpensive' you didn't quantify.  To me, inexpensive means $4kish.  To you, that's about $1500 less.  Look at the seals.  Look at the pivots, the swingarm condition, the triple trees and note the working of the shocks (and work them good; fork legs get wiped off so they look solid, but DS bikes punish the seals).

Here's something I want YOU to know, bpg; I've been where you are.  Ultimately, this can be extremely frustrating.  On one hand you want a cheap bike because you know you're going to be tossing it around and dropping/abusing it.  On the other hand, you want it to be reliable enough to not be a money pit.  I'll just say that I went your route up front, and it really delayed me finding a good bike much earlier than I could have.  Further, having to muscle around bikes that were over-heavy and underpowered really took away from my overall experience.  In retrospect, I really wish I'd just spent a little more right up front and it would have saved me a whole lot down the road.  I would have enjoyed the situation a whole lot more.  I'm only trying to save you that experience if at all possible.  

But, hey, that's just me.  I'm not trying to rile you or anyone else up here.  And I'm certainly not trying to sell you on the XRR; just trying to show you that the XRR's capabilities are what will make a good experience, and that there are other bikes that'll perform similarly that also have more creature comforts (though they do cost more).

My advice is this:  Spend more time on the XRR (since you seem to have one readily available) if you can.  Try to pay a lot of attention to what the suspension is capable of soaking up and how much effort it takes you to pop over roots/ruts, etc.  Then get out on one of the other more 'mainstream' bikes and compare how they perform.

Compare as much as possible.  The differences should start to show themselves pretty quickly.  You'll be much better equipped to decide where you want to go, and what might suit you down the road.

[r2t2]

bpg... Just get a nicely used KLR... After all, if it's good enough for me and the Marines...   Yeah, it's not the greatest at everything... But I'm not so hot in the dirt yet either.

Seriously, find something that the you think you'll like and if the price is right, then buy it. If it doesn't work out, then sell it. By then you'll have a better idea of what you "really" want.

[XLR8]

FWIW I'd like a TE-610 to be on the consideration list...  But like I said earlier it's WAY out of my budget

Yea I know. But I put it out there in case someone else read this thread with a similar dilemma.  

[mtrider16]

Well bpg - you can certianly get lots of opinions here when you ask questions.  

Its all good Johnny, I've been around you long enough on this board to now how you write.  

David

[XLR8]

Its all good Johnny, I've been around you long enough on this board to now how you write.  

David

+1 Didn't sound verbose to me.

Yea, wasn't sure what the deal was with all that.  

[mtrider16]

+1 Didn't sound verbose to me.

Yea, wasn't sure what the deal was with all that.  

I started the verbose thing, having seen Johnny spend time writing out his thoughts in detail.  Usually the poor Vffr has been the butt of those master level dissertations.    

Of course, I usually have some one-lined smart aleck comment at the end of a number of threads.  Its how we express ourselves, we all do it differently.  

David

[XLR8]

I started the verbose thing, having seen Johnny spend time writing out his thoughts in detail.  Usually the poor Vffr has been the butt of those master level dissertations.    

Of course, I usually have some one-lined smart aleck comment at the end of a number of threads.  Its how we express ourselves, we all do it differently.  

David

I like to post lots of silly pictures. But it's been cold and snowy and I've been very busy.

Soon...

[Mach VIII]

+1 Didn't sound verbose to me.

Yea, wasn't sure what the deal was with all that.  

Well, let's see, exceptionally long, unnecessarily wordy, and not even responsive to the question asked.  I'd say that pretty well fits the definition of verbose.   [shrugs]

Anyhow, back on topic....

[arkansawyer]

I own an XR650L and I used to own a KLR650.  I've never ridden the V2.0 KLR.  Mine was the V1.0 produced from 1153 until 2007.  The XRL and KLR are opposite ends of the spectrum.  The KLR is much better on the street.  The XRL is much better in the dirt.

I think you would be happy on the XRL.  Mine will go nearly anywhere.  The stock gas tank is way too small.  Throw away the smog pump and do "Dave's carb mods".  The seat height might scare you.  I'm 5'11" and can't put both heels down.  Except for that it is a really friendly street legal dirt bike.  It is twitchy at highway speeds on pavement, the engine vibrates some, and it hates gusty winds.  Pretty decent around town, though.  Eye level is right at the roof line on a Ford Explorer.
I've put a cheap luggage rack and JCWhitney givi copy on mine.  The 4.7 gallon Clarke tank is waiting for me to install it.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Well, let's see, exceptionally long, unnecessarily wordy, and not even responsive to the question asked.  I'd say that pretty well fits the definition of verbose.   [shrugs]

Anyhow, back on topic....

You know, I had something very... verbose written here.  However, I'll get right to the point.  Those are pretty stiff words from someone who hasn't contributed anything about bikes at all to this thread.  I doubt the OP is getting much motorcycle information out of you attacking my postings.

I've addressed his issues, and explained some things that may not have occurred to him otherwise.  I'm confident he can sort it all out.

[bpg]

I own an XR650L and I used to own a KLR650.  I've never ridden the V2.0 KLR.  Mine was the V1.0 produced from 1153 until 2007.  The XRL and KLR are opposite ends of the spectrum.  The KLR is much better on the street.  The XRL is much better in the dirt.

I think you would be happy on the XRL.  Mine will go nearly anywhere.  The stock gas tank is way too small.  Throw away the smog pump and do "Dave's carb mods".  The seat height might scare you.  I'm 5'11" and can't put both heels down.  Except for that it is a really friendly street legal dirt bike.  It is twitchy at highway speeds on pavement, the engine vibrates some, and it hates gusty winds.  Pretty decent around town, though.  Eye level is right at the roof line on a Ford Explorer.
I've put a cheap luggage rack and JCWhitney givi copy on mine.  The 4.7 gallon Clarke tank is waiting for me to install it.

I'm thinking along those lines - the DRZ and the 650L seem to be the most dirt-able of the bikes listed; and the 650, from what I hear, is a little easier to live with on longer occasional highway trips than the Z..  We'll see what pops up when I have the cashola, thanks for the input!

[arkansawyer]

I don't think the 650L has changed since '93 when it was introduced.  Find an older one that fits your budget if you can handle the seat height and highway manners.

[ToadRide]

I've just been perusing the Beemer F650 and F800s and I do like what I see. A test drive will convince me ( along with more time to see how the 800 holds up) one way or the other but I am starting to harbour thoughts of dumping both my present bikes for one of those. Maybe next winter. Maybe not.

[Johnny Monsoon]

I've just been perusing the Beemer F650 and F800s and I do like what I see. A test drive will convince me ( along with more time to see how the 800 holds up) one way or the other but I am starting to harbour thoughts of dumping both my present bikes for one of those. Maybe next winter. Maybe not.

Just make sure you aren't expecting either of those to be a dirtbike in the pure sense of motocrossing.  They're on the other side of the KLR, being more street-oriented yet.  That isn't a bad thing at all.  For some longer distance riding in unpaved, but graded roadways and mild trails, these bikes really excel.

I love the F800GS; I'd happily put one in my stable if I had the funds to do so.  It'd be difficult for me to find a bike that checked all my boxes for my current needs for a commuter bike.  Excellent concept; I hope it proves as well in the real world as it does on paper.

[ToadRide]

At this late stage in my life I think I'll be sticking to the dirt roads as opposed to the single tracks. Tried one the other day on the KLR, bumping over (and getting stuck on) 2ft. logs and decided it was just too much work for this fat old fart. Ya, logging roads are fine. And for that, the Beemer might be the Kats' pajamas.

[Johnny Monsoon]

At this late stage in my life I think I'll be sticking to the dirt roads as opposed to the single tracks. Tried one the other day on the KLR, bumping over (and getting stuck on) 2ft. logs and decided it was just too much work for this fat old fart. Ya, logging roads are fine. And for that, the Beemer might be the Kats' pajamas.

You kind of illustrate a great point though:  With a bigger, heavier, lower-powered bike, that stuff IS work.  With a light bike that has the power it really needs, and great suspension, it becomes play.  It really is a matter of using the right tool for the right job.

What I've found is that there are some bikes that have a broader 'job' spectrum; the XRR, the KTMs, Huskies... they all make that 'job' a lot more fun with MUCH less work, and also work pretty darned well on the highway (the former the worst of the three).  If you're just doing gravel roads in-between your road duty though, the WeeStrom, F800GS would do you really well.  That extra cylinder certainly makes long distance mule-packing much better.

[homebrew]

Get an XR650L.
They're cheap, reliable, and will go anywhere.
Continuous production of the exact same bike since the early 90's, so you know it's got to be an awfully good design, not some flash in the pan trendy marketing exercise.

[R.Markus]

Continuous production of the exact same bike since the early 90's, so you know it's got to be an awfully good design, not some flash in the pan trendy marketing exercise.

Same with the KTM LC4.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Same with the KTM LC4.

 

[R.Markus]

 

The LC4 has been around since 1987. It did get an upgrade in 2003 with an extra oil pump and higher flow head...and obviuosly now it's a 690 with FI.

[Johnny Monsoon]

The LC4 has been around since 1987. It did get an upgrade in 2003 with an extra oil pump and higher flow head...and obviuosly now it's a 690 with FI.

Most of the 'popular' DS bikes have designs dating back over a decade.  I suspect that the main reason for that is simply that the market demand for these bikes was so small.  Now it seems to be emerging the same way the auto industry did with trucks in the mid '80s.  Trucks today look nothing like trucks produced before then, and likewise, I'm seeing a lot of advances in this particular niche.  Of course, I am far more aware of the changes in these bikes than I ever was 5 years ago...

[Hickey]

I don't know if the original poster has made a purchase yet, but perhaps I can add some input on a bike mentioned in this thread.  The Kawasaki KLX250.  

I have one and like it for its light weight, suspension, road legal status, and unintimidating nature.  But it really struggles to get to and maintain road speeds.  55 MPH on the level in a bit of a head wind is all mine has to offer -- maybe 65 MPH going downhill with a tail wind.

I plan to fiddle with the carb and airbox at some point to get a bit more out of that motor.  But as it is, I wouldn't spend long on a real road with it.  Which is probably for the best because the brakes really suck.

[Johnny Monsoon]

I don't know if the original poster has made a purchase yet, but perhaps I can add some input on a bike mentioned in this thread.  The Kawasaki KLX250.  

I have one and like it for its light weight, suspension, road legal status, and unintimidating nature.  But it really struggles to get to and maintain road speeds.  55 MPH on the level in a bit of a head wind is all mine has to offer -- maybe 65 MPH going downhill with a tail wind.

I plan to fiddle with the carb and airbox at some point to get a bit more out of that motor.  But as it is, I wouldn't spend long on a real road with it.  Which is probably for the best because the brakes really suck.

You have a lemon.  I could easily get the KLX up to 80; beyond that it takes a good while and a tail wind.  Brakes?  Excellent!  Good sized rotors for any offroad bike, and superior than most for its weight.  A braided line would help though, as with most any bike.

[R.Markus]

The only way my KLX would have gone 80 is if you threw it out of an airplane. I don't think his was a lemon, I think the one you rode was magical.

[mtrider16]

The only way my KLX would have gone 80 is if you threw it out of an airplane. I don't think his was a lemon, I think the one you rode was magical.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Coulda been, I guess.  Bone stock from Power Sports Pro in Omaha, NE.  It took a while to get to 80, but it'd do it all day long (and did).  No doubt the weight of the rider and terrain will greatly impact the little 250.  Clearly lighter guys on flatter land will be better.

Still, you just have to concede at some point that the KLX isn't a highway bike; no DS is really truly at home in that environment.  Some do better than others, but I've found that at legal speeds, the KLX is fine.  Better than most of the other offerings in the dirt; especially at its pricepoint offroad.  Better than several on the road; the low displacement limits top-end speeds, but also greatly reduces vibration.

It's all give and take.

[Hickey]

My KLX250 isn't completely broken in yet, which might be contributing to its power issues.  But I doubt I could ever get it to do 80 on level pavement without making some changes to the fueling.

The front brakes on the other hand are weak.  I can almost pull the lever to the handle bars without generating stoppie inducing deceleration.  I'd describe them as being mushy and weak.  I've bled the front brake line twice with a Mity-Vac and although things improved a little, the brakes remain pretty much as described above.  My next plan is to lightly sand the brake pads and clean the rotor to see if I can't get them to bed in again with more power.

[Johnny Monsoon]

My KLX250 isn't completely broken in yet, which might be contributing to its power issues.  But I doubt I could ever get it to do 80 on level pavement without making some changes to the fueling.

The front brakes on the other hand are weak.  I can almost pull the lever to the handle bars without generating stoppie inducing deceleration.  I'd describe them as being mushy and weak.  I've bled the front brake line twice with a Mity-Vac and although things improved a little, the brakes remain pretty much as described above.  My next plan is to lightly sand the brake pads and clean the rotor to see if I can't get them to bed in again with more power.

The brakes are light years ahead of the KLR...  Still, with any long-hose setup (always present on a DS bike) a braided SS like will be far superior.  The small expense probably yields the greatest return per dollar.  The next step, of course, is swapping the front brake assembly for something beefier; though a larger diameter rotor is also more prone to damage offroad.  Again, it's a give and take.  I find that the stockers are plenty adequate for the kind of street riding you have to do on a bike like this.  

I think it may be important to jump back a bit and think about a couple of things though:

These bikes aren't street bikes, and most folks, I think, only see the 'how fast can it go' issue as the main difference between street bikes and DS machines.  However, when you consider what the DS does; what its mission in life is, you have to realize that the whole of your riding experience is significantly different.  Still motorcycling, certainly, but completely different than street riding.

On a pure street machine, you almost don't use a rear brake; on a DS you have to use it liberally to keep the front from diving to the point of being dangerous in a rapid stop.  You also have to drive very defensively instead of bobbing and weaving like on a powerful streetbike.  Braking requires much more of a defensive position as well; no big meaty twin rotors clapped by 6 to 8 pucks in this neck of the woods; stopping is going to take time; and even with the greatest brakes ever, the ultimate 'braking' end of the spectrum is going to mean you have less rubber on the ground to stop with.

You really have to slow down a bit and smell the roses on a DS bike; but that doesn't make 'em boring.  It's just a different sort of ride.  At some point you have to accept the inherent shortcomings of a multi-tasking bike like a DS and just enjoy the bikes for what they are.  

[Uncle Leo]

Well....now that we've all pee'd on each other's shoes, the answer to the question posed in the first post is answered in the first post. He felt COMFORTABLE and CONFIDENT on the DR650.

They can be found cheap, are reliable as a hammer, add a Clarke tank and double your range....game, set, match. Get yourself a DR and don't look back.

[Windblown]

Still, with any long-hose setup (always present on a DS bike) a braided SS like will be far superior.  

I wouldn't want SS braided brake lines on my DS. Makes the brakes too twitchy for off-road use. A properly bled stock set-up on a modern DS should still be able to do a stoppie.  But the brakes will feel mushy compared to a modern streetbike.
 

You really have to slow down a bit and smell the roses on a DS bike.

LOL. Speak for yourself. Except for top end and acceleration I squirt around much quicker on the DS.  I'm also running MT-90's at the moment and that makes a huge difference in braking and cornering abilities on the street.  Would a 300 lb streetbike handle even better? Yes, but I don't have an FZR400.

Heck I'd be happy with just about any of the DS's or ADV bikes around. They're are all fun.

[bpg]

Well....now that we've all pee'd on each other's shoes, the answer to the question posed in the first post is answered in the first post. He felt COMFORTABLE and CONFIDENT on the DR650.

They can be found cheap, are reliable as a hammer, add a Clarke tank and double your range....game, set, match. Get yourself a DR and don't look back.

Doh!  Very good point!  

[Dano]

Three months into this,,,,  what have you bought?    

Remember whatever  bike you buy, you can always sell it later and try something else.

Riding my DS's on the asphalt makes me sick, cause I know when I get there I want my knobs back....  

[bpg]

Nuthin' yet - waiting for the right opportunity... and the right amount of $$ in my bank account...  Just wanted to get some good info before-hand is all...

 

[Biggs]

Really, I'm just looking for a 2-wheeled jeep.  A tractor.  Something fun and simple (I have another bike that's technology-laden and fast - kinda looking for a contrast!).  I want something that other bikes "run circles" around, while I chug along with a dumb grin on my face...

DR650 is the bomb, jap tractor, runs circles around the sport bikes in the tight stuff.  Easy to work on, and parts have been cheap.  Same bike from 1996 to now.





I picked mine up for 2G's with 2 thousand miles on it a few years back and haven't looked back.

[bpg]

Holy crap, I almost forgot about this thread, been over a year since I started it!  Anyway, dilemma solved:



  and for good measure:  

2008 Yamaha WR250R.  Liquid cooled, fuel injected, electric start, 6 speed, aluminum main frame & steel rear sub-frame (can actually handle some serious luggage and has a great weight capacity!), 350 watt alternator, relatively lightweight, killer suspension for a dual sport.  Me likey!

Thanks to a generous dealer back home who let me do a test ride - in December - at 30 degrees (he probably just wanted to see if I'd really go through with it!) - I was hooked.  90mph and it actually didn't sound or feel like it'd explode!  70mph and it felt fiiiiiiiiiiine!

Then read this thread about 3X: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329337&highlight=ricochet

Then got a nice fat tax refund....

Then this weekend, found a place selling '08s for $4599, less than 40 miles away...  Deal!

Can't wait for the adventures to begin!

[Frantik1]

Niiiiiiice!!!  

[1moreroad]

Holy crap, I almost forgot about this thread, been over a year since I started it!  Anyway, dilemma solved:



  and for good measure:  

2008 Yamaha WR250R.  Liquid cooled, fuel injected, electric start, 6 speed, aluminum main frame & steel rear sub-frame (can actually handle some serious luggage and has a great weight capacity!), 350 watt alternator, relatively lightweight, killer suspension for a dual sport.  Me likey!

Thanks to a generous dealer back home who let me do a test ride - in December - at 30 degrees (he probably just wanted to see if I'd really go through with it!) - I was hooked.  90mph and it actually didn't sound or feel like it'd explode!  70mph and it felt fiiiiiiiiiiine!

Then read this thread about 3X: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329337&highlight=ricochet

Then got a nice fat tax refund....

Then this weekend, found a place selling '08s for $4599, less than 40 miles away...  Deal!

Can't wait for the adventures to begin!

Something is wrong with that picture -- there aren't tire tracks on all that snow!

Congrats.

[bpg]

sorry folks - but that pic WAS taken right off the trailer...  I promise to beat her severely this weekend to make up for it!

[swingset]

You made a great choice....that's a superb bike!

[Fourstring]

Did you end up getting the left-side saddlebag?  Congrats on the bike!

[bpg]

Just an update - several months and many thousands of miles later, I'm extremely pleased w/ the WR250R.  

Stock gearing is way too tall - I first re-geared from stock 13/43 to 12/43. This was a great all-around set-up for highway to gnarly dirt.  70MPH (GPS indicated) is vibe-free and surprisingly comfortable, especially since I added a short fly-screen style windshield.  Next, I installed a 47T rear sprocket and left the 12T front.      PERFECT for hopping a log while scrambling up a steep rocky incline, or climbing boulders in the mountains - although a little strung out on the highway.  Putting the 13T front back on will balance it out again.  I'm still amazed at how it's such a great singletrack AND highway bike!

Maintenance has been simple, the oil sight glass is nice.  I broke mine in using the "motoman" method of numerous oil changes & varying RPMs with fairly rapid acceleration/decelration to seat the rings - swear it gets a little stronger with each ride.  

Put on heated grips, an aluminum bar (stock steel bar is a POS), risers, and lots of small mods like a Wolfman Enduro tank bag, # plate bag, spare tube fender bag, PVC tool tube, etc..  She carries the weight well - and it's fun to pull a tow strap and full tool wrap out of my "little" 250 to help some beastly bike that slid off the trail..

Anyway, just wanted to stop in and share my thoughts..  I'm very glad I didn't discount the WR250R.  It might be off some folks' radar because of the displacement, but it's actually a better streetbike than many would believe!  

[marc11]

Do you get any sort of wobble on the highway from the big front fender?

[bpg]

If I take it to 90+ (GPS, not indicated), it does start to wobble in some situations.  Is the front fender that big?  If so, I just figure it keeps clumps of mud from smacking my visor, LOL!  

[river]

You have two choices if you're comparing the DS bikes available to the XRR.  That's it.  The TE-610 and the LC4.  You will be disappointed by anything else.  The KLR, DR, DRz, XRL all suffer by leaps and bounds by comparison both ON and OFF road.

Honestly, get the XRR and do the DS thing.  You'll be happier if you can live with a kickstart (which I happen to really enjoy).  You can go further offroad with your DS machine, but you begin to pay a price in maintenance and/or higher speed streetabilty.  The XRR is FAR easier to get around offroad; especially when you start dropping things.  Also, while I know that magic button is a wonderful thing most often, when you get out in the woods, dropping, etc. it is really easy to kill that battery.  Where are you then?  Only the LC4 and XRR have the kicker to get you home.  You're not going to bump/pull start a bike that only has e-start out in the wild on gnarly terrain.

One more thing; my XRR has lowering links on it, which put it just a touch taller than the DR650.  You should strongly look into this.  In fact, if I like my XRR with the stock links put back in, I'll let you know and you can get the lowering links from me.

However, from what you've said, the two I mentioned earlier would be best.  Just keep in mind that the XRR is also a better ROAD bike (as are the Husky and KTM) as well as being a better offroad bike.  The Husky will be a little more 'honda-ish' reliable for maintenance though.

I think you have one major misconception to overcome too:  more power offroad makes a bike EASIER to ride.  You can loft the front wheel with a lot less clutchwork and body english.  You can power your way through muck and deep sandy stuff.  The only downside to more power in the offroad arena is that it comes with a weight penalty in most cases.  However, in the cases of the XRR, TE, and LC4, you not only gain power but lose weight compared to the other bikes you're looking at.  Your inexperience is really your undoing.  It isn't like buying a Hayabusa as a first bike, it's more like being handed a brand new Honda S2000 instead of a rat-trap VW Bug convertible.  Sure, they both get you to the corner store, and are both topless, but they're entirely different animals otherwise, and one is far superior to the other without being a 'killer'.

Read my posting on 'how I learned to love a kicker' http://:http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,22107.0.html

This is the info I've been looking for.

Johnny:

I've found a couple 2000, 2001 XR650Rs, in the 1500 - 2000 price range. The problem is, they don't have odometers, so how do I select one in good condition? I'd have to ride quite a few of them to be able to tell the difference between a "low mileage" one and a "high mileage" one.

[marc11]

If I take it to 90+ (GPS, not indicated), it does start to wobble in some situations.  Is the front fender that big?  If so, I just figure it keeps clumps of mud from smacking my visor, LOL!  

I have a standard dirt/MX type fender in my bike and I get a nice weave/wobble above 65 MPH (GPS indicated).  Going to try a supermoto fender to see if it helps, but was wondering if I was alone with this issue.

[R.Markus]

Going to try a supermoto fender to see if it helps, but was wondering if I was alone with this issue.

The problem I had with a supermoto fender is that it is too short and allows a lot of water/mud to flip up past it and into my face. This is especially noticeable when riding down the road in the rain.

[marc11]

The problem I had with a supermoto fender is that it is too short and allows a lot of water/mud to flip up past it and into my face. This is especially noticeable when riding down the road in the rain.

Yep I heard that too.  My thought is for adventure type rides where I need to take some highway to ride dirt roads and such the SM fender should be fine, for real off road and single track, the MX fender.  It is either that, a $400 damper or trailer everywhere.

[1moreroad]

The problem I had with a supermoto fender is that it is too short and allows a lot of water/mud to flip up past it and into my face. This is especially noticeable when riding down the road in the rain.

That's the reason I haven't switched in spite of riding a mini-supermoto.  I can go 85 with no wobble from the fender, no problem.

[bpg]

I should note that I welded up a simple brace/bracket for the front fender, to help support the spare tube bag (which is strapped to the top of the fender).

This might account for the ability to run the stock dirt fender @ higher speeds w/o deflection and aggressive wobbling, so it's a 2-fer-1 mod!  

[kitkite]

my DRz400s has the after shock front forks and i never get a wobble, my brother loves how it handles on the street and the dirt. much improvement to the stock fork.

[marc11]

I put the SM fender on and the wobble is pretty much gone on the street.  But as soon as I took it through a puddle I got a face full of water.    So, if it is going to be a hard pack dry dual sport ride with lots of street I will go SM, otherwise the MX finder goes on.  Still cheaper than a $400 damper.

[skierd]

bpg - I know you've already bought one   but I was lurking around here for other reasons and thought I should add my $.02 on the WR250R...

15,000+ miles to date.  Ran the bike bone stock (save for protection items, luggage racks, and bars) to ~4500 miles, then changed gearing to 13/47 (perfect) with a new chain and D606 tires (mostly happy).  Took a 6300 mile road trip this summer, half dirt at 230-300+ miles per day, half paved at 350-450 miles a day.  Dirt 60-75mpg, pavement 40 - 55mpg.  Runs great without any adjustments or changes from sea level to 14,000+ feet (fuel injection rocks!).  Very few vibes and most comfortable running 60-70mph (6spd transmission with good gearing rocks!).  I've had her as high as 92mph (GPS) but the front end starts to wobble at that speed, and its worse with the real knobs.  Removed the AIS and glued down the airbox flapper door about 1000 miles ago, I think she runs a little bit better this way.  All I've had to do maintenance wise so far is change the oil, grease the suspension, replace tires, and occasionally give her a bath.    

Needless to say, I love this bike.  

[bpg]

Hey man, good to see ya here - and I hope you don't mind but I posted a link to your big trip: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=500618

Loving that WRR more and more every time I ride it!

[Hardware]

What's the maximum recommended weight for a WR250R?

At ~250 lbs (will get down to 240 in a while) I've discounted it as a viable option.

[1moreroad]

What's the maximum recommended weight for a WR250R?

At ~250 lbs (will get down to 240 in a while) I've discounted it as a viable option.

It's rated to carry 400#+.  Can't imagine what the acceleration would(n't) be, but it can carry a LOT of weight.

[Hardware]

It's rated to carry 400#+.  Can't imagine what the acceleration would(n't) be, but it can carry a LOT of weight.

Well, if the frame's good for it that's great.  I'd be less interested in acceleration and more interested in how it would lug the weight in tighter stuff.  I wouldn't think a two-fiddy would be a torquey mill...???

[1000lbs]

I picked my WR up weighing in around 210# without gear.  No problems with handling or power.  I went from a DR650 to the WR and it was a good move.  Much easier to handle in softer and tighter terrain.  I wouldn't discount it as an option, including hwy travel.  I was surprised when it was pulling 70mph without seeming over stressed.  I'm now down to 195# and dropping and it keeps getting better both on the pavement and on the trail.  

[Hardware]

I picked my WR up weighing in around 210# without gear.  No problems with handling or power.  I went from a DR650 to the WR and it was a good move.  Much easier to handle in softer and tighter terrain.  I wouldn't discount it as an option, including hwy travel.  I was surprised when it was pulling 70mph without seeming over stressed.  I'm now down to 195# and dropping and it keeps getting better both on the pavement and on the trail.  

I'm around 260 lbs now...working on getting down to a target weight of 230.