new to dual sporting - WR250R, XR650L, DRZ400S/E, DR650... KLR650???

[bahwolf]

I disagree; everything that makes the Husky great offroad makes it even better on-road.  Also, you can get a clean Husky for right around the $4K range.

Johnny, I think you misread something, cause you're obviously not disagreeing with anything in that statement of mine you quoted. I never said anything about the Husky's on-road capabilities, good or bad. I made the statement that, for a beginner with little dirt experience, the TE610 was overkill, and I went on to say that he could buy a used DR-Z for considerably less money, get some experience, then later get back what he'd invested in the DR-Z and apply it towards something like the Husky if he was interested.  

[bahwolf]

I would just shop for a deal on a pre-farkled DRZ400S, DR650 or XR650L for $3000 or so. They'll all get the job done for what you want to do. Let the deal dictate which one you end up buying.

That's exactly what I was trying to say.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

Um, Johnny - go re-read post 1.  XRR - tried it, didn't like it - overall.  With a few year's experience?  Might love it to death for all aspects of dual sporting!  Just not now.

At this point, I don't want the "ultimate bad-ass race-bike with blinkers".  I want mellow, I just want to learn, I want easy (without getting TOO pedestrian, hence no KLR)  

I guess in a street analogy, I'm the guy who is (gulp) happy with a faster cruiser vs a much more sophisticated ST bike - just to get a feel for things for a while...  Yeah, the ST is better in all ways, and actually safer if ridden HARD.  I ain't gonna be moto-crossing anytime soon, LOL!

Plus, you need to ride that XRR East Coast-style before you pass judgement on what an "easy" trail is for that bike, LOL!  Big difference threading 120 degree bends uphill around trees all day, vs using big power to loft a front wheel across some rough terrain in TX..

For a dumbass newb like me, huge power + tight trails = no fun.  Ain't skeered to admit it.

Again, umm, you're kind of killin' yourself with your ideas about what makes a bike easy to ride.

You can chug along all day in 1st on a powerful bike, but on a lower powered bike you'll be tap-dancing like crazy & burnin your clutch.  On a more 'factory' ds bike, you'll suffer lousy gearing to accomplish better highway manners; this also means difficulty on tighter trails (especially for the bikes you mentioned).

If you didn't like the XRR on tight trails in the east (grew up in VA; used to ride through the woods all the time in the tidal area) then you're going to absolutely HATE/LOATHE/DESPISE the bigger bikes with less power.  Going more mellow is not the way to go.  It'll only make things worse for you.  It is a lot harder to control greater weight/mass with less power available.  It's way more difficult to get out of sticky/mucky situations with a heavy, underpowered bike too.  AND, the lack of suspension on those bikes make you work where the bike would otherwise be giving you a pass.  Good suspension makes up for a TON of rider error.  My XRR makes me MUCH better than I actually am.

If you want a light bike, with moderate power, get a KLX250S.  It seems to be the only bike that'll meet all your needs; and you can re-jug it to a 300cc powerplant.  I also did a review of this bike early in this dirt section.  Read it!

[Mach VIII]

Johnny, I'm not sure why you can't get this through your head (helmet still on???), but he doesn't like the damned XR650R.    We're all glad that you've "found Jesus" on yours, but give it a rest already.  The bike simply doesn't meet his particular wants/needs.  It's way tall for him, lacks electric start, has no gauges or instrumentation, no charging system for accessories, no subframe to support luggage, has a miserable motocross-like seat, lacks necessary lighting, plus he'd have to screw with trying to get it titled & registered for street use.  I'm sure when he's ready to compete in the Baja 1000 it'll be on his short list though.  

[Johnny Monsoon]

Johnny, I'm not sure why you can't get this through your head (helmet still on???), but he doesn't like the damned XR650R.    We're all glad that you've "found Jesus" on yours, but give it a rest already.  The bike simply doesn't meet his particular wants/needs.  It's way tall for him, lacks electric start, has no gauges or instrumentation, no charging system for accessories, no subframe to support luggage, has a miserable motocross-like seat, lacks necessary lighting, plus he'd have to screw with trying to get it titled & registered for street use.  I'm sure when he's ready to compete in the Baja 1000 it'll be on his short list though.  

I never was trying to sell him the XRR.  Never.  I was pretty sure I'd made that abundantly clear by supporting other bikes for him to buy that WEREN'T the XRR.  He doesn't get the kicker thing, I get that.  Power scares him.  I get that too.  The problem is that he's equating power and 'full bore' suspension performance with things that make a bike MORE difficult to ride.  The exact opposite is true.  I also recommended the KLX250S which meets every one of his requirements.  I also suggested the TE-610, which meets all of his requirements just a little better.  I was using the bike he's been riding as a comparison though; that way he has a direct reference for what I'm telling him.  If the OP is complaining about muscling the XRR around on a tight trail, he's gonna hate any of the other bikes in short order.  I wouldn't try comparing and contrasting a KTM LC4 because he has no experience on one.  He has, however, ridden an XRR, so he's got a good frame of reference when I'm making comparisons when I mention that.  Groovy how that works, huh?

However, since we're walking down this little avenue of yours:  The XRRs can easily be found with full lighting kits (and are very likely street legal where he lives, due to the fact that he was riding one) for $2.5-5K.  I've got a lowering link on mine that puts it right about the same height as a DR650 in low mode (he can have it if he decides to go for the XRR for some reason).  There are a couple of companies that make electric starters for the machine, and the subframe can handle modest luggage; there are many aftermarket subframe and rack companies that make systems for the XRR for very little money.  It is fully reasonable that A PERSON THAT LIKES THE XRR could easily get one fully street-legal and adventure-tour ready for around $5k or less.  But that's me informing you, not trying to sell the OP on it.  

[mtrider16]

We're all glad that you've "found Jesus" on yours, but give it a rest already.

 

Mach VIII, I'm guessing you haven't listen to Johnny talk about bikes he likes before!  He is always verbose and very passionate about his bikes.  I have to say that I like reading what he says, even if I disagree.

BPG, after listening to this conversation, the DRZ400 will probably be the best bike, although if you want to get some experience on a lighter bike, I saw a nice right-up on a 250 Kaw awhile back.  

I have riden my friends DRZ when we went on a ride exploring some gravel roads around here.  I like the extra torque my BRP has, but the DRZ did just fine by my estimation.  I would prefer the DRZ in the tighter trails.

David.

[R.Markus]

Mach VIII, I'm guessing you haven't listen to Johnny talk about bikes he likes before!

Yeah, he tends to find jesus a lot.

[Johnny Monsoon]

 

Mach VIII, I'm guessing you haven't listen to Johnny talk about bikes he likes before!  He is always verbose and very passionate about his bikes.  I have to say that I like reading what he says, even if I disagree.

BPG, after listening to this conversation, the DRZ400 will probably be the best bike, although if you want to get some experience on a lighter bike, I saw a nice right-up on a 250 Kaw awhile back.  

I have riden my friends DRZ when we went on a ride exploring some gravel roads around here.  I like the extra torque my BRP has, but the DRZ did just fine by my estimation.  I would prefer the DRZ in the tighter trails.

David.

David, this isn't really directed at you specifically, so please don't be offended.  The thought that anyone would think I'm always 'finding Jesus' is beyond odd to me; especially since so many folks thought I bashed the XX relentlessly and are under the impression that I hated it.  I got pretty beat up here for it!

The only reason I didn't recommend the DRz is that it is either good on the highway with re-gearing or good in singletrack with re-gearing, but never good for both.  The KLX250S does better in both situations despite it's lower output (now the third time I've recommended THIS bike, and the first bike I recommended after suggesting that the DS'd XRR could be an option for various reasons).  The TE-610 (which I've now recommended 3 solid times in this thread) is very close to the two lower displacement bikes, has a good soft power delivery, but also has greater power for highway duty.  The increase in power makes it more tractable off road, while being able to maintain a taller gearset for highway cruising.  Ditto for the KTM (again, now the third time recommended).  The XRR?  I have suggested that the bike might work for him with some modification ONE TIME, but only after recommending two others.

It seems to me that folks read the first paragraph of my first response, then as soon as I mentioned the XRR they simply stopped reading and started inferring.

Don't paint me a 'buy MY bike' kind of guy.  You can't do it with this post, and I have always gone out of my way to avoid that.  The KLX, Versys, TE, KTM, Sprint ST, Ninja650R, and DR650 are all bikes I'm frequently recommending though I have never owned any of them.  I don't have a problem pointing out what features on my bikes work better than other bikes, nor do I have a problem pointing out how my bikes fall short of other bikes.

A lot of this guy's problem is that he's too new to know what bike does what.  A lightweight bike that'll all the other bikes will run circles around (his words) isn't going to get him down the highway at anything but modest legal speeds (if that).  Heck, the first part of his requirements would equal something like a TW200, but then he follows up with a requirement that can really only be filled by a much bigger and more sophisticated bike.  If he wants a bike that is EASY TO TRAILRIDE then he needs to look at a bike that has more advanced suspension with a greater suspension travel.  It's kind of black and white.  If he also wants that bike to be a good highway bike, he's going to need some displacement.  If he wants that highway-able bike to be good offroad, it'll need good suspension and light weight... when you do that you substantially cut down on appropriate and available bikes to just a handful of units (which have been mentioned).  The TE-610 tops that list (4 times now).

So, let's do a quick recommendation count:

XRR=1
KLX250S=3
TE-610=4
LC4=3

Zealot, I'm not.

[XLR8]

It doesn't matter to me what people buy just have fun.  

However, I got my Husky new last year for $6000. For what you get I think that's pretty cheap. I was going to get a DR-Z but I figured if I was going to spend $5000+ I might as well spend $1000 more and get the 610.

Now about it being for a beginner. Although I've been Mt. Biking for 20+ years the 610 is my first offroad bike. What I like about it on the trail is not the power but the torque and manageability of the engine. First gear on the 610 is like a tractor. You don't have to wind it out; Just a little clutch maintenance and up you go. This allows me to concentrate on technique and a build pace with experience. Combine that with the fact that I like to ride out to the trails or whatever and it's the perfect DS bike...for me.

I added a 5 gallon tank last year and I can leave my doorstep on a summer morning and be in bliss all day. I just wish some of you guys were closer so we could all ride together.  

[bpg]

FWIW I'd like a TE-610 to be on the consideration list...  But like I said earlier it's WAY out of my budget

[Johnny Monsoon]

FWIW I'd like a TE-610 to be on the consideration list...  But like I said earlier it's WAY out of my budget

Are you really wanting a new bike?  If not, there are some great advantages to a used Husky vs. a new one.  The first, of course, is price.  You can get a used Husky for around $4K.  Good news for you is that they don't hold their value well.

Another great bit of news is that the pre '08 models are carb'd.  While I like EFI it does pose one particular problem; there is an internal-tank fuel pump which isn't something aftermarket tank manufacturers are ready to start production on.  So, the older ones can be easily (and relatively cheaply) fitted with a larger tank for extended riding.

The Husky is a very unique animal in the DS world.  It offers extraordinarily good offroad manners while still being a practical and comfortable commuter.  They're quite reliable and offer very good specifications everywhere.  It's like getting a Mercedes Benz for Toyota pricing.  Even if you're just riding it to and from work 90% of the time, why wouldn't you get a much nicer vehicle for similar money?  The very slight increase in price (even used vs. new) you'll spend on the Husky will be much more valuable in the long run.

One final thing about getting a used Husky is that you'll probably be able to unload it if you want to decide it isn't for you, and you won't take a bath on the price.  The first owner is really the only one who'll pay that hefty buy-in depreciation.  After that, you'll be able to turn it over to folks who understand what the bike is, and will be willing (and happy) to pay that second-owner exit fee.

Take a hard look at that bike; it really does fit your needs better than the others, and you should note that I'm not the only person to suggest that particular bike.

[Mach VIII]

I never was trying to sell him the XRR.  Never.  I was pretty sure I'd made that abundantly clear by supporting other bikes for him to buy that WEREN'T the XRR.  He doesn't get the kicker thing, I get that.  Power scares him.  I get that too.  The problem is that he's equating power and 'full bore' suspension performance with things that make a bike MORE difficult to ride.  The exact opposite is true.  I also recommended the KLX250S which meets every one of his requirements.  I also suggested the TE-610, which meets all of his requirements just a little better.  I was using the bike he's been riding as a comparison though; that way he has a direct reference for what I'm telling him.  If the OP is complaining about muscling the XRR around on a tight trail, he's gonna hate any of the other bikes in short order.  I wouldn't try comparing and contrasting a KTM LC4 because he has no experience on one.  He has, however, ridden an XRR, so he's got a good frame of reference when I'm making comparisons when I mention that.  Groovy how that works, huh?

However, since we're walking down this little avenue of yours:  The XRRs can easily be found with full lighting kits (and are very likely street legal where he lives, due to the fact that he was riding one) for $2.5-5K.  I've got a lowering link on mine that puts it right about the same height as a DR650 in low mode (he can have it if he decides to go for the XRR for some reason).  There are a couple of companies that make electric starters for the machine, and the subframe can handle modest luggage; there are many aftermarket subframe and rack companies that make systems for the XRR for very little money.  It is fully reasonable that A PERSON THAT LIKES THE XRR could easily get one fully street-legal and adventure-tour ready for around $5k or less.  But that's me informing you, not trying to sell the OP on it.  

God, and I thought I was verbose.  You seem to have a staggering ability to type so very much, yet say so very little that is of utility.

Try sticking to the topic - recommendations based upon the bikes listed at the beginning of the thread.  He's looking for a used DS that he can dink around with on and offroad on a budget.  The TE-610, while no doubt a great bike, ain't cheap.  Nor have I seen cheap used ones.  The 250 Kawi is just too small for road-going duty as he's described.  And yes, if you spend enough money you can eventually make an XR650R into something it isn't (and certainly you weren't telling me anything I didn't know already).  I'm pretty sure he's not looking to spend the $5000 you specified to do so though.  A used version of one of the bikes specified can be had for around $3000 and often less and will already have all the things you'd have to add onto a 650R - even if they don't have the added power and better suspension.

And another thing, I think it's rather obnoxious of you to say that he's "afraid" of the power the 650R has (unlike a big manly man such as yourself) - he simply doesn't want or need it for his intended usage.

Now I've no doubt you'll launch into another long diatribe here in response, but if you could, at least try to include a useful "compare & contrast" of the bikes listed in the thread topic based upon your ACTUAL experience.  Maybe put that part in a different color font so we can easily fast forward to it too.  [smootches]

[bpg]

Just to clarify (and maybe this is why Johnny is so confused??), I'm looking to get something CHEAP & USED - that's why it's down to the bikes in question.  REAL cheap, but hopefully not TOO used

Oh, and yeah, the power on the XRR was a riot (I ride an XX, remember??), but the "lowly" DR650 had more than enough grunt (torque, baby!), delivered a little more smoothly on steep woods trails, to scoot me along.  At least, that was my very own experience, having rode both bikes back-to-back - but what do I know?!?

That said, if I can score a TE-610 for like $2500, I'd be on that deal like a bear on a beehive.  Not gonna happen though.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Just to clarify (and maybe this is why Johnny is so confused??), I'm looking to get something CHEAP & USED - that's why it's down to the bikes in question.  REAL cheap, but hopefully not TOO used

Oh, and yeah, the power on the XRR was a riot (I ride an XX, remember??), but the "lowly" DR650 had more than enough grunt (torque, baby!), delivered a little more smoothly on steep woods trails, to scoot me along.  At least, that was my very own experience, having rode both bikes back-to-back - but what do I know?!?

That said, if I can score a TE-610 for like $2500, I'd be on that deal like a bear on a beehive.  Not gonna happen though.

I agree with the XRR being a riot (and look at my avatar; I too rode an XX).  Still, please consider the following:

You can get a KLX250S for 3K.  I know of an '05 (maybe '06) DR650 for $2500 out here.  The title is salvage because they replaced the forks, but it runs perfectly and goes down the road straight at the ton.   Of the 600cc classed DS bikes from the big 4, the DR has my solid vote.  The particular one I mention is a really sweet deal; everything is new for a very used price.

Just make sure you don't get one too cheap.  When you were saying 'inexpensive' you didn't quantify.  To me, inexpensive means $4kish.  To you, that's about $1500 less.  Look at the seals.  Look at the pivots, the swingarm condition, the triple trees and note the working of the shocks (and work them good; fork legs get wiped off so they look solid, but DS bikes punish the seals).

Here's something I want YOU to know, bpg; I've been where you are.  Ultimately, this can be extremely frustrating.  On one hand you want a cheap bike because you know you're going to be tossing it around and dropping/abusing it.  On the other hand, you want it to be reliable enough to not be a money pit.  I'll just say that I went your route up front, and it really delayed me finding a good bike much earlier than I could have.  Further, having to muscle around bikes that were over-heavy and underpowered really took away from my overall experience.  In retrospect, I really wish I'd just spent a little more right up front and it would have saved me a whole lot down the road.  I would have enjoyed the situation a whole lot more.  I'm only trying to save you that experience if at all possible.  

But, hey, that's just me.  I'm not trying to rile you or anyone else up here.  And I'm certainly not trying to sell you on the XRR; just trying to show you that the XRR's capabilities are what will make a good experience, and that there are other bikes that'll perform similarly that also have more creature comforts (though they do cost more).

My advice is this:  Spend more time on the XRR (since you seem to have one readily available) if you can.  Try to pay a lot of attention to what the suspension is capable of soaking up and how much effort it takes you to pop over roots/ruts, etc.  Then get out on one of the other more 'mainstream' bikes and compare how they perform.

Compare as much as possible.  The differences should start to show themselves pretty quickly.  You'll be much better equipped to decide where you want to go, and what might suit you down the road.

[r2t2]

bpg... Just get a nicely used KLR... After all, if it's good enough for me and the Marines...   Yeah, it's not the greatest at everything... But I'm not so hot in the dirt yet either.

Seriously, find something that the you think you'll like and if the price is right, then buy it. If it doesn't work out, then sell it. By then you'll have a better idea of what you "really" want.

[XLR8]

FWIW I'd like a TE-610 to be on the consideration list...  But like I said earlier it's WAY out of my budget

Yea I know. But I put it out there in case someone else read this thread with a similar dilemma.  

[mtrider16]

Well bpg - you can certianly get lots of opinions here when you ask questions.  

Its all good Johnny, I've been around you long enough on this board to now how you write.  

David

[XLR8]

Its all good Johnny, I've been around you long enough on this board to now how you write.  

David

+1 Didn't sound verbose to me.

Yea, wasn't sure what the deal was with all that.  

[mtrider16]

+1 Didn't sound verbose to me.

Yea, wasn't sure what the deal was with all that.  

I started the verbose thing, having seen Johnny spend time writing out his thoughts in detail.  Usually the poor Vffr has been the butt of those master level dissertations.    

Of course, I usually have some one-lined smart aleck comment at the end of a number of threads.  Its how we express ourselves, we all do it differently.  

David

[XLR8]

I started the verbose thing, having seen Johnny spend time writing out his thoughts in detail.  Usually the poor Vffr has been the butt of those master level dissertations.    

Of course, I usually have some one-lined smart aleck comment at the end of a number of threads.  Its how we express ourselves, we all do it differently.  

David

I like to post lots of silly pictures. But it's been cold and snowy and I've been very busy.

Soon...