Camping experiments: a n00b learns not to freeze

[bluepoof]

Since I want to do some camping on my cross-country trip this summer (mom, are you reading this? If you are, I'm just kidding! ), I've got some "pre-flight" camping trips scheduled to test out my newer gear.  I love camping but have really only done it in the summer.

Friday night was Camping Experiment #1, at Big Basin Redwoods State Park here in the Bay Area.  Somehow I managed to talk my friends Steph and Kim into camping with me, and I reserved a place for us via Reserve America.

I arrived first and set up my tent and gear.





I got hungry while waiting for Steph and Kim, so I cooked myself some Mountain House lasagna with my JetBoil. It came out pretty well -- it smelled and tasted like Hamburger Helper -- but the cheese really caked onto my JetBoil fork. I added "small sponge" to my packing list.

Steph came bearing a full Coleman camping stove, so she made some turkey dogs.



The only downside to the event was that the forecasted "low of 40" wasn't -- I don't think it got below freezing, but it was definitely lower than 40. Anyway, I didn't think I'd have a problem as my sleeping bag is rated 10F, but I was still freezing all night.  

After a great advice thread here , I'm going to try the following for my next cold(ish) camping trip:

* Bring both the Thermarest and cot (put TR on cot; if I'm still freezing in the night, ditch cot)
* Put clothes under cot instead of next to cot
* Put on PJs (hat, wicking long sleeve shirt, wool socks, and WindStopper fiber pants) just before bed
* Food and jumping jacks before getting into bag (but not so many as to sweat)
* Don't lie in bed having to pee -- get up and do it  

The bike claims it was 35F at 7:30am, after the sun was up:



A Steph-breakfast of sausage and pancakes helped us warm up....so did moving into the Jeep with the heater cranking for a few minutes.  



The ride home was wonderful; it was a beautiful sunny day once I got out from underneath the redwoods.  I stopped for this photo at a vista point on Hwy 9, looking back towards where we were camping:



All in all, a fun night and a great learning experience. Stay tuned for Camping Experiment #2 this Friday!  

[stefrrr]

That's sounds like fun (except for the freezing part). Ray & I have been looking at different equipment for trying moto-camping. Please keep updating us on your experiences!  

[Guzzipat]

If you like fresh coffee, get yourself one of these;




I think they are available in  America, they are very common in Italy. It is a pressure cooker, works on any heat source, stove, fire, comes n a lot of different sizes, mine is a one mug size. Steam is forced through the coffee and perfect espresso comes out. Better than all the expensive domestic machines, only the big commercial catering machines come close.
I set it up before I go to bed, then I can put it on the stove without getting out of the bag. Heaven on a cold morning, a cup of espresso, in bed.

[spinalator]

I want to convert America to metric. Celsius is so much nicer for temps, and dancing too.

Nice writeup

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

I am going to have to try this on a bike. Sounds like fun. I will wait for temps in the 60's though.

[CMac]

Moto camping is awesome but it takes some practice to get just the right gear and remember the little things that make the campsite run smoothly.

Like a sponge.

[Lawn Dart]

Motocamping rocks...unfortunately I'm still tied to a CPAP and am still working on trying to find a smaller version that doesn't take up 50% of my V46!  

Poof,  Great job!  Obviously you've got the other thread going on how to stay warm - that's going to make a big difference in general.  Still, there's something to be said for "Yankee Ingenuity".  Don't be afraid to experiment to stay warm.  I've used newspaper from a friendly camper as an insulator (superb!).  Pine needles work well too.  On some trips I've used a small tee candle in a "customized" beer can to help keep the tent warm (WARNING!  You BEST be careful here!).  Heated waterbottles work awesome too.

I'd also suggest keeping a water bottle at the foot of the sleeping bag regardless (can be cold) - you don't want to wake up and realize that all your precious water is frozen in bottles in the morning!

[Max Wedge]

Good post! But next time, can you include more info/pics on the Jetboil? I just got one myself for when I attempt moto-camping this year, so I will be paying attention so that I might learn a thing or two.

[VIVID1]

I get cold very easily. On summer motorcycle trips I use a 40 degree bag and sleep with many layers on. What works best as a warm layer for sleeping is the quilted liner out of my textile riding jacket and pants. I also wear a hat since so much heat escapes through your head. For me this set up is only good to about 42 degrees.

Another trick is to wrap my feet up in something before getting in to the sleeping bag, like a fleece shirt or jacket, since even with two pairs of wool socks my feet are still cold. If you get camp site with electricity and bring an extension cord, you can plug in a heating pad and stick it inside your sleeping bag.  A heating pad is small enough to pack on the bike and is also great for those after the ride sore spots.

When I’m sport-touring and camping in Spring/Fall I bring a 0 degree sleeping bag, but that’s only good to about 36 degrees for me.

[bluepoof]

Good post! But next time, can you include more info/pics on the Jetboil? I just got one myself for when I attempt moto-camping this year, so I will be paying attention so that I might learn a thing or two.

Sure thing!  I'm going out again on Friday and will take more pics of the JetBoil then.  

[Yankee Dog]

dont wear anything tight or constricting when you climb in the bag. It will restrict the flow of blood and cause your extremities to be cold.  If you read up on them you will discover the degreee rating on sleeping bags are based on how cold it can be before it is too cold for you to sleep.  Note it does not mean it will keep you "warm" all the way down to that temperture.  So take them with a grain of salt.  

DAMHIK but I would reccomend against the candle inside the tent technique.  It is an easy way to put a hole in your tent.  Or worse if you are not lucky.

I would normally pull my boots inside the bag with me (damn the lumpiness) because I cant stand putting on cold stiff boots.  My outer cloths go under or over me and my undercloths get stuff in a ball to use as a pillow.  

Let me also add that all this advice comes from the old days.  Currently I fall into the motel catagory.  

Yankee Dog

[OregonDavid]

Looks like a fun trip.
Here are a couple of tricks I use to fight off the cold when sleeping while camping.
It is important to put some sort of insulating mat between you and the ground, even if you are on a cot. I where a beanie and thin gloves. I always sleep in clothes that I use just for sleeping like sweats, long sleeve moisture wicking shirt and a fleece vest. I put the clothes on each night and change out of them in the morning. I all ways put on a fresh dry pair of socks every night. If all my other things don't work I put  a chemical hand warmer in the foot of my bag and one in the pocket of my fleece vest. One last thing it is important to keep well hydrated.

[F14Scott]

A couple of these make ALL the difference.  Made a 20 degree night in a crappy sleeping bag warm and comfy.  Put one in your shirt pocket and one in your waistband at your navel.  Toasty.


http://www.littlehottieswarmers.com/Hand_Warmers_p/lhw1-40.htm

[Mrs. DantesDame]

A Steph-breakfast of sausage and pancakes helped us warm up....so did moving into the Jeep with the heater cranking for a few minutes.  

 

[OregonDavid]

A couple of these make ALL the difference.  Made a 20 degree night in a crappy sleeping bag warm and comfy.  Put one in your shirt pocket and one in your waistband at your navel.  Toasty.


http://www.littlehottieswarmers.com/Hand_Warmers_p/lhw1-40.htm

Yep, thats the ticket. I wouldn't leave home with out them.

[atadaskew]

Friday night was Camping Experiment #1, at Big Basin Redwoods State Park here in the Bay Area.

Man I love riding through that area in the Santa Cruz mountains.  All those little towns are sooo cute!  Bummer is I have never really taken the time to stop and smell the roses, I'm always on my way to visit friends in San Fran.
It's the kinda roads where you want a small, sit up and take in the view kinda bike.  Which I see you have.

[DJStevieB]

Carolyn, what kind of cot is that with the hoops?

To add my $0.02 ... I also sleep with the "wicking" type of shirt. A blend with Merino wool is fabulous.

Soundrider.com has oodles of neat info about moto-camping.

The little heat paks are SUPER!

[bluepoof]

Carolyn, what kind of cot is that with the hoops?]

It's an Aerostich High-Tech Cot.

http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/High-Tech-Cot-p-18894.html

[DJStevieB]

Thank you. I gotta git me one o'dose tings!

I'm basically only going to carry tent, cot, sleeping bag, etc. On my long trips, I plan to motel it every other night or so. I don't plan to cook. For my own safety and health, I'll eat at diners.  

[Lon]

If you like fresh coffee, get yourself one of these;

AeroPress.

http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm

It's small, light, easy to use, practically self cleaning, nearly indestructible, quick (once you have hot water), and inexpensive.  You can make regular coffee or espresso with one.  Tons of reviews are out there.

[Thundergod]

did you wear a knitcap to bed? Most of your heatloss is through your head. A mummy bag is the best, soft, very compact and it has the hood installed, so on really cold camping nights you can close the opening up to just your mouth and nose.

as mentioned, pocket warmers are great for the sleeping bag down by your feet.

look into Thermasilk pants/shirts. They are very thin undergarments used for skiing. Very light/thin -- very see through,  and very warm.
Remember to wear very thin layers when camping, if you sweat at all...you will never warm back up.

Agree: Keep your boots in the tent. Keep your feet warm during the night.

Most importantly: Suck it up

[Mr. Whippy]

Nice.  Mid 30's with that bag and a thermarest should be sufficient.  You might pick up a bag liner.  (Is this the write up version of your other thread?).

As for JetBoil food:  Try the Backpacker's Pantry Hawaiian Chicken.  Very good.  I also like their Santa Fe Chicken.  Pad Thai is pretty good too.  I haven't really liked their red sauce meals too much.

Have fun!

[bluepoof]

 (Is this the write up version of your other thread?).

Yep!

I leave in an hour for Camping Experiment #2.  Looks like this one will also feature rain.  

[Mr. Whippy]

Rain:

DON'T LET YOUR DOWN BAG GET WET!!!!1111!  Instant cold night and will be cold until it completely dries.

I hate camping in rain.  One must become one with the wetness, but sheesh.  Not fun.  Good to know if your tent has any leaks though.  Seam seal is a good friend.  

For me, it works best to get anything that has to be done in the rain finished, then retreat to the tent.  Change into dry clothes, shun the wet clothes away from anything you want to be dry.  If necessary, put it outside the tent (like if it is super saturated).  Nicest part of mountaineering? Nearly no rainy nights.

[bluepoof]

Yeah, I don't much like camping in the rain either (even in summer, which is the only time I've done it)....though I do like it when it's warm out and dry when I set up camp and then I wake up in the night to a light rain pitter-pattering on the tent.    

Tonight's forecast is definitely "on and off drizzle," not pouring rain.  Should be fine.  

[skihor]

I use a 40 F. Slumberjack bag. For the ground I use an Air mattress. It is 72"X20" and the tubes are 2 1/2" DIA. I can't recall the brand tho. I got the air mattress @ Sportsman's Warehouse. There is 2 types, One is normal, and, the other is insulated. It's supposed to lower bag temp rating by 15 degrees. Spendy @ $75 + each but well worth every penny. Drawback is blow up by mouth only. It has a strange valve. Pack size is 4" X 8" approx. For a pillow I use a 20" X 20" pack/stuff pillow. Folded in half it works nicely. I can pack my tent, sleeping bag, air mattress, pillow, coffee pot, pack towel, small bag (w/ burner, coffee, light, 2 fuel cans) all in ONE saddlebag on my Concours.

Don

[ol Rocket]

AeroPress.

http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm

It's small, light, easy to use, practically self cleaning, nearly indestructible, quick (once you have hot water), and inexpensive.  You can make regular coffee or espresso with one.  Tons of reviews are out there.

[Mr. Whippy]

Hey!  We need the followup on this experiment.  Howditgo?

[Max Wedge]

Be patient! This one is going to have oodles of Jetboil cooking tips, so it might take a little longer to post up. I anticipate that it will be well worth the wait!

[bluepoof]

  I have all the photos (including the JetBoil ones!) -- I was just swamped this weekend.  I'll do the write up at work tomorrow, unless my boss is reading this, in which case, I'll do the write up after work.  

[bluepoof]

Here's the update!

This past Friday night was Camping Experiment #2 at Butano State Park near Pescadero.  I wanted to try out the tips that I'd gotten after Camping Experiment #1, plus just have a fun night out with my friend/coworker Jean.

I left work early on Friday and took the longish route to Butano State Park.  I stopped for lunch at Alice's, where I parked next to three motorcycle cops from Salinas who were out for a joy ride.  I took Hwy 84 over to the coast and rode south alongside the Pacific. Good times.



Jean was already setting up camp when I arrived.  



Since she was car camping, she brought me her husband's 3" Thermarest.  Talk about comfy! I felt like I was floating at the top of the tent.  Too bad it packs up to the approximate size of all the rest of my gear put together.



Jean also brought her Taj Mahal 4-person family tent, giving me a bit of size anxiety.



One thing that really helped with the cold aspect was starting a campfire.  Yay campfire!  We drove into nearby Pescadero for cinnamon english muffins from Arcangeli's and picked up two boxes of wood while we were there.





Dinner was a mixed salad of spinach greens, fresh tomatoes, and a poppy seed salad dressing (provided by Jean and hauled in her Prius) plus JetBoil-cooked Jambalaya and ChiliMac (provided by me and hauled on my Beemer).  I'm beginning to see why people like car camping.





By the way, both the Jambalaya and ChiliMac were from Mary Jane's Outpost and were very good.  Two hippie thumbs up!

During dinner, it started raining.  Thanks to the canopy of redwoods, though, the picnic table stayed completely dry.  It was really relaxing and wonderful to sit by the fire, drinking beer and chatting, and listening to the rain pitterpatter down all around us.

Nighttime was the real test of my camping experiments and this week, it went very well!

I'd put all of my bike gear and the stuff sack bags underneath the cot when I set it up, and placed Jean's monstrous Thermarest between the cot and my sleeping bag (which I'd also exchanged for a Marmot Women's Teton 0F since last week, after talking to many campers).

Just before crawling into the sleeping bag, I undressed and pushed my clothes into the foot of the sleeping bag.  I put on silk long johns and my hat, and got into bed.

Lo, I was even warm!! It was a miracle.  Hooray!

I woke up a few times in the night, but it was more due to "What's that noise? Oh, rain on the tent." than discomfort.  I actually slept quite well.

In the morning, I found that the outside of the foot of my sleeping bag was damp where it had brushed up against the tent wall.  There was a bit of condensation on the inside of the tent, but nothing else was damp.  Next time I'll make sure to keep the sleeping bag away from the tent wall, though after hanging the bag up at home, it dried in less than an hour.

Other than the condensation, the tent was completely waterproof.  That was a good and unexpected experiment!

Jean and the car camping pulled through once again with a full breakfast spread of eggs, toast, and smoked salmon.  Yessir, we were roughing it.



There was no denying where we'd set up our tents!  



All in all, it was a great night.  We had a lot of fun, and I stayed warm!  I brought a small digital thermometer with, just for fun, and it recorded a minimum temperature of 47F in the tent overnight.  So that's not bad at all.  I think that keeping the tent zipped up and the fly down (instead of staking it out to create vestibules...that part of the fly is also over the large mesh areas of the tent) really helped keep the temperature up.

For what it's worth, I also really liked Butano State Park.  The campsites were clean and not one right on top of each other.  It may be crowded in peak season, but it was perfect when we were there.  The rangers we met were also very friendly and waved with a big smile whenever they drove by.  I'll be going back!

[bluepoof]

Here's the JetBoil scoop.

Packed up, it all looks like this:



Mine has the utensil cozy accessory.

Here's everything unpacked:



To use, set it up like this:



And fill to the fill line with water (2 cups for the "solo" model like I have).

To start, turn the flame adjust knob on slightly so that you can hear the gas hiss:



And then push the ignitor button (my left finger in the photo):



That's it!  Water will boil in just a couple of minutes.

For the backpacker food we ate, you just pour the boiling water right into the bags of food and fold over:



When you're done eating, the bags do double duty:



That's it!  The JetBoil washes out easily with a sponge and water (you can remove the cozy for washing) and packs back together.  

[vulcanbill]

Glad it went well.  

I don't know what those yellow and grey monstrosities are but you need to get one of these.  There are many kinds.  This is but a sample.  Behold, the titanium spork...

http://www.rei.com/product/660002?vcat=REI_SEARCH

I watch with interest as we will soon be using out backpacking gear as motocamping gear.  I hope it translates.

BillO

[Mr. Whippy]

+1 on titanium spork!  It's greater than the sum of it's spoon and fork components.  Perhaps the greatest eating utensil ever devised.

[Max Wedge]

Great work! I KNEW it would be worth the wait. So how did you like the backpackers food? Would you buy it again? Thanks for the Jetboil 'inside scoop', I haven't seen one with a silverware cozy.   Glad you stayed warm.

[Black Ice]

Jean also brought her Taj Mahal 4-person family tent, giving me a bit of size anxiety.

Now you know how us guys feel!!  

I have absolutely fuck-all to add here, but the wife and I are planning to do some camping so I decided to keep track of this thread.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

 
I don't know what those yellow and grey monstrosities are but you need to get one of these.  There are many kinds.  This is but a sample.  Behold, the titanium spork...

Those 'Monstrosities" that you point rock! They are jetboil utentils that retract back into the handle for storage. And if you have a non-stick surface (which the jetboil doesn't) then they're safe to use there, too!

[homebrew]

Sucess!  
May you never camp cold again.  

[Shhted]

Smoked salmon and Motorcycle camping.  Sure beats my tins of Sardines in Mustard washed down with cans of PBR.  

Glad you found an effective camping combo.  

[kendenton]

FWIW, when folks ask me about camping for their first time, I always advise them to do 2 nights.  The first night camping is always filled with waking up to unfamiliar sounds, but the second night is much better.

[st2sam]

Nice up-date, at the rate your going you won't wanna sleep indoors by summers end...
You did kinda cheat a little (car) but maybe in the future you can get a motorcycle trailer.. (like birdrunners?)  

[vulcanbill]

Those 'Monstrosities" that you point rock! They are jetboil utentils that retract back into the handle for storage. And if you have a non-stick surface (which the jetboil doesn't) then they're safe to use there, too!

Be that as it may, once you've lived with an entire kitchen the size of a large cup, the stuff that weighs a lot (being totally relative when backpacking) seems superfluous.  That Jetboil thing seems neat but when I have to carry all my stuff into and back out of the Grand Canyon on my back, I'm going for light and easy to use.  We use an MSR Pocket Rocket http://www.rei.com/product/660163?cm_mmc=ps_google-_-Category%20-%20Camp%2fHike-_-Camping%2fHiking_Stoves_Brand_MSR-_-MSR%20Pocket%20Rocket&gclid=COa58dLiv5ICFQ5zHgod6whgXg and a Snowpeak titanium cookset http://www.rei.com/product/668926?vcat=REI_SEARCH and the whole kitchen fits inside the big cup.  

Jetboil = made in USA
MSR = imported  

[bluepoof]

You did kinda cheat a little (car)

Hey, all of my stuff came on the bike!  I borrowed a Thermarest because I'd forgotten mine at home and Jean was going back to her place anyway.  

[Jeremiah]

Closing the tent up tight like you did causes the condensation you experienced.
Try playing around with staking part of the fly or leaving a "window" or door
partially open to get a little air movement.  Every tent has a "setting" that
will keep a good deal of heat in and let the moisture out - it just takes some
playing around to find it.

Being a big guy I can't stand condensation cause I will brush up against it.

Most important - Enjoy!!

[stefrrr]

Yay warm camping!  

That Jetboil looks cool!

[TriplePete]

I've camped while riding, I love it. The worst was in Alturas, CA. It was warm when I went to sleep, but I awoke at 3am with my bag covered in ice. Condensation from my breath frosted in the tent and I was freaking cold.  Luckily I was at an RV park so I crawled into the laundry building and slept by a small heater.

The next day I made it to a WalMart in Bend, OR and bought a $7 heater.  That night I set up tent at another RV site with a hook ups. Plugged the heater in and slept very comfortably in a tee shirt.


Alturas, CA.




On the Columbia in WA.

[bluepoof]

Nice!    Honestly, I've never been warm in Alturas.  I think that city just makes cold.  

[bluepoof]

Here are a couple of pics from last weekend's camping.    I was warm and happy.

[goodhawk]

Good info / pics etc.  just to confirm 3 ideas previously posted
the thermarest under bag ( top of cot) was probably a big key to additional warmth.  Note - the therm. type are relativly bulky , rolled for transport ( on a bike.  or backpack) at least the larger /comfy size.   BIG AGNES has 2 types, roll to about 6 x 10" for packing - just simple air tubes , or tubes insulated with fiber. the ' lightly insulated' type rolls to close to same size. Ya have to huff and puff a little  to use , but pack way smaller than full size therm. or similar.  OR - I used for 3 years a 3 /4 size thermarest , about 2 " thick x 54 " long.

As an emergency , I'd have a small Chem. heat pack in pack.  thou if it looks to be noticably colder than I want , I'm headin for hotel.

Third , the idea of a tent ' sweet spot' where the venting and adjusting of the tents rainfly is good. this will vary depending on the nights weather, experience /study key.