$^@)!! Old People!! Rider down in MN

[doug06z]

So glad to hear your brother is doing so well Blackice. Whats also sad is the fact that it probably has'nt begun to register in the ole hag's head the grief she has caused. Hate to sound mean but I can't stand to hear of an innocent life being altered by a negligant person.

[Jeff N]

What's important is your brother's health, Jen, and it's good to hear that he's getting better.  

Don't worry about the money. That will get taken care of. Consult your local HOG. They know how to run these things.

Thanks for the update and positive waves will continue.

[Tyrroneous]

That is good news about your brother Jen.    

I have no idea about fund raising but wouldn't the old lady's insurance be liable as well?  Can you go after them?

[Scratch33]

Second - I had to say this, but go after the old bag's family, too, if she has any.  She's responsible, but then so are they if they let a senile person drive.

     Any legal precedents you're aware of to base that advice on?  If not, good luck with that idea.

I've been trying - unsuccessfully - to get my brothers on board with approaching my Dad's doctors and having them recommend he no longer be allowed to drive.  I just don't think he's competent anymore.  He's had two accidents (both minor parking lot fender benders) within the last 6 months.  It's a biatch.  I've talked to my Dad about it a number of times, and he gets very upset at even the thought of giving up his keys.

[Twistedpinion]

great news about the recovery.  

[DredheadV2.0]

     Any legal precedents you're aware of to base that advice on?  If not, good luck with that idea.

Nah, just a feeling that a good lawyer could make some headway with it.

[Scratch33]

Nah, just a feeling that a good lawyer could make some headway with it.

I tend to doubt it.  If going after the family of elderly drivers who've caused accidents/deaths is legally feasible, why stop at the elderly?  How about the parents of teenage drivers?  Or the families of drunk drivers?

[DredheadV2.0]

I tend to doubt it.  If going after the family of elderly drivers who've caused accidents/deaths is legally feasible, why stop at the elderly?  How about the parents of teenage drivers?  Or the wives, husbands or children of drunk drivers?

Parents of teenage drivers are already liable, though the liability varies from state to state.  I think there some consonance between the children of senile people and the parents of teenagers - both have a responsibility to keep people with chronically diminished judgment in check.  The families of adult drivers who make a conscious choice to drink and drive shouldn't be held directly responsible, but they will be anyway if the drunk is a breadwinner.

[stefrrr]

Did the woman who hit him have insurance after all?

Regardless, get a lawyer. A lawyer can give a letter of protection for his medical care.

[Scratch33]

Parents of teenage drivers are already liable, though the liability varies from state to state.  I think there some consonance between the children of senile people and the parents of teenagers - both have a responsibility to keep people with chronically diminished judgment in check.  The families of adult drivers who make a conscious choice to drink and drive shouldn't be held directly responsible, but they will be anyway if the drunk is a breadwinner.

I'll concede the teen angle since the parents are legal guardians; I reject however the idea that adults have any legal responsibility for their parents (also adults) actions.  

And without further explanation, your exception for the families of adult drunk drivers doesn't jibe with your position on the families of elderly drivers.  Wazzup with that?

[Elseanno]

Hope your BIL heals up quick & the pain meds & insurance ease everyone's suffering.. at least at his end. As for the old bitty, I hope she has enough insurance & assets to cover this, it's not like you could get anythng for her heart or kidneys on ebay.

I can't agree with senior citizen testing because of the simple fact that there are a lot of younger people that shouldn't be on the road. I'd like to see a required road test every 5 years for EVERYONE. It also needs to be much more difficult than the current test that will give a license to anyone that is breathing.

I hope your BIL heals soon.

+1! After 65, I think it should be annual. I also think ALL driver's tests should be difficult & meaningful, not like the current ones.


Elseanno

[DredheadV2.0]

And without further explanation, your exception for the families of adult drunk drivers doesn't jibe with your position on the families of elderly drivers.  Wazzup with that?

A drunk driver is a competent adult who made a bad decision.

[Scratch33]

A drunk driver is a competent adult who made a bad decision.

And this relates to one's presumed right to sue his/her family... how exactly?

I'm not zeroing in on your angle here.   If family members know they've got an alcoholic for a parent (and most will know that at a very early age), shouldn't they - in your scenario at least - be just as "responsible" for taking measures to prevent them operating a motor vehicle as they would for an elderly parent?

[DredheadV2.0]

 If family members know they've got an alcoholic for a parent (and most will know that at a very early age), shouldn't they - in your scenario at least - be just as "responsible" for taking measures to prevent them operating a motor vehicle as they would for an elderly parent?

Once people can have their parents/family members committed for being alcoholics, sure.

In the case of an elderly person, there are legal steps you can take to have them declared incompetent if they're being uncooperative.  Children are already assumed so.  But an adult with a drinking problem?

Can we take this to PM, or start a new OT thread?  I don't want to detract from Black Ice's and Jen's postings.

[Scratch33]

Once people can have their parents/family members committed for being alcoholics, sure.

Still losing you here.  "committed" to where, exactly?  IME, alcoholics can't just be "committed" (which implies, to me, involuntary action) by family members to a treatment facility.  The intervention process is designed to get them to accept the need for it and to do so voluntarily.  

In the case of an elderly person, there are legal steps you can take to have them declared incompetent if they're being uncooperative.  Children are already assumed so.  But an adult with a drinking problem?

Hmm -- you seem to be making my argument for me.  

In any event, we seem to be drifting from the original premise, which is your suggestion that family members can or should be sued for accidents caused by their elderly parents.   If you believe that draconic measures such as declaring the elderly "incompetent" are needed just because they no longer have the physical and/or mental acuity needed to operate a motor vehicle safely, we'll have to disagree again.  

[strider]

A lot of the posts here seem to be 'wrinkly' bashing just for the hell of it.   Having to sit or resit a licence test only means one thing - you can pass a test.  

I don't know about the USA but there are a lot of young people downunder who should never have been given a licence anyway.  

But what can you expect when the rider/driver training establishments teach to a prescribed test.  The students are never put under stressful circumstances so their reactions cannot be properly gauged.  Very, very few schools take the students on a dirt road - which is amazing considering how many we've got.  Not one I know of teaches 'road craft' to an acceptable degree and the emphasis on attitude is not reinforced.

Ok, so when they've got their licence, they consider themselves to be 'good' drivers because they've passed a test.  Nobody bothers to explain to them that the test covers the minimum basic requirements to operate a vehicle.

I used to teach advanced rider training at club level and the comments by students were disturbing.  They weren't criticising the course, they were wondering why they hadn't been taught the topics in the first place.  

How many of you are 'good' riders/drivers?  When was the last time you did a rider training course?  It's recommended every three years to get rid of bad habits that creep in.  


Sorry, forgot to add hope your BIL makes a fast and full recovery.

[Black Ice]

Strider, it's the same thing here.  I'm not going to pretend that our licensing exams are anything close to perfect.

But I've seen too many people crippled or killed by some 1000yo codger who simply is too damned old to be behind the wheel.  And where I live, it's magnified to an obscene degree.  We have to start somewhere, and the best place to start is with folks whose skills are demonstrably failing.  Either that, or just admit that a driver's license doesn't mean a damn thing, and advise everyone that they're on their own.

I'd almost prefer the latter.  It's closer to reality.  

[VFJKLR]

Last weekend an 80 year old codger rear-ended a woman who was waiting for an oncoming motorcyclist to pass before she turned left.  Her car was thrown into the path of the motorcycle.  Motorcyclist dead, woman hospitalized, old codger uninjured.

Read the story:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/25667894.html

[keystonejenks]

This is Jen, "the ol' lady". I was reading the responses you sent in regards to my brother. I want to thank you all for your well wishes. It darn near brought me to tears to know people care out there. Yesterday I was terrified that he wouldn't make it and I am stranded 2000 miles away. I thought at best he would survive, but without legs. He had lost circulation in both legs and they couldn't find a pulse in either. And as I am sure you all would understand, if Jeremy was without legs and not able to ride again...it would kill him. But, thankfully, it looks like they saved both legs and today they put him through hours of surgery to put pins, screws and whatever else they needed in his legs. It will be months until he walks again, but it looks like he will. Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and prayers. I will let you know what he says about it when they take him out of the coma. It's amazing what modern medicine can do. And I am sure that by fall he will be back on a new Hog. (Hopefully wearing a helmet!)

I wish him the best.

[strider]

For what it's worth, it was extremely difficult for me to write my previous post.  

On Monday I went to a funeral of two friends killed on their bike.   He was 60, she was 57.   My wife and I had ridden many thousands of kilometres with them and he really was one of the safest riders I've ever met.

They were riding home from visiting their grandkids when a woman (late 20s/early 30s), who was driving the other way, was distracted by a spider.   Instead of pulling over, she lost concentration, swerved across the road and hit my friends head on.

The police said there was nothing he could have done.

A single funeral is bad.  A double funeral really hurts.