"Lower Maintenance" on Ducatis?

[Rogue]

Lately, Ducati has been spreading word that their bikes requires "less maintenance" than before.  I have even read somewhere that it is up to 50% less.  Heck!  So has anyone read the long term review of the Ducati 1098 in the latest Cycle World mag?

They just did the 7,500 mile service on the bike at a dealership in Socal:   $729 parts and labor!   

That service includes:
Valve inspection
Oil/filter change
Replace Spark plugs ($34 ea.)
Timing Belt Check
Re-set throttle Position Sensor

Labor rate is $90/hour.  Fairly standard in SoCal.  I had my car serviced at an independent shop and they charged the same rate.

I know Ducati's are sweet bikes but that ladies and gents is pretty fooking steep every 7,500 miles!  It would probably be easier to swallow every 15k miles but about twice a year?  It's a V-twin so shouldn't it be less?  Ouch!

I'm sure that my VFR would cost the same at 15k miles if I had the dealer do all the work.  Even then, I still think that is fooking ridiculous for a Honda!  And I can just hear some of you:  if you can't afford to pay, don't play.  I CAN afford to pay but that doesn't mean I'm that stupid!  In a day when we can get high performance automobiles that put out mega-horsepower yet don't pay that much every year in maintenance, they can make bikes that are similar!  For example, how about 50k miles spark plugs and coolant?  hydraulic roller-type valvetrains that don't go out of spec?  Self-resetting TPS sensors?  Why does Ducati insist on belt-driven cam drives that require constant checks and replacements?

[xbud]

  Maintenance on Ducati's is no more difficult than replacing brake pads on a Honda Civic.....Or A Chevy Truck. With the proper manual and some tools it is pretty easy to replace the Spark Plugs and Change the Oil. The valve clearance inspection takes a little more, but to check and see if they are within spec is not too bad, and if they are out of spec then take it to the dealer. But to take it to the dealer for every little thing will definately break the bank.

[Rogue]

Yes but why every 7,500 miles?  

Most japanese makes have moved on to every 15k or 26k miles (Yamaha).

[IvanJ]

I'm sure that my VFR would cost the same at 15k miles if I had the dealer do all the work.  Even then, I still think that is fooking ridiculous for a Honda!  And I can just hear some of you:  if you can't afford to pay, don't play.  I CAN afford to pay but that doesn't mean I'm that stupid!

I don't think owning a Ducati is stupid.  I do all the maintenance on my 2V Duc, with the exception of resetting the TPS, which takes all of about 10 minutes at the dealer.  I actually enjoy working on my Duc.  The 4V engine is more difficult, but its not impossible to DIY.  I'll find out for sure when I pick up a 4V track bike soon.

In a day when we can get high performance automobiles that put out mega-horsepower yet don't pay that much every year in maintenance, they can make bikes that are similar! 

BS... If the dealer did all the work, my modest BMW 330 coupe would cost way more in maintenance than my Duc.  Ever get a quote for an oil change from a BMW dealer?

For example, how about 50k miles spark plugs and coolant?  hydraulic roller-type valvetrains that don't go out of spec?  Self-resetting TPS sensors?  Why does Ducati insist on belt-driven cam drives that require constant checks and replacements?

I'll take the desmo valve system over anything else, with or without belt driven cams.  Constant checking and replacement???  Checking/setting belt tension takes about 10 minutes.  You only need to check the tension every 7500mi, and replace the belts every 15kmi or 2 years (replacement takes about 20 minutes).   Checking the valve clearances and changing shims is a bit more involved, but no more difficult than shim under bucket type valves.  You don't even need to pull the cams on the 2V engines.

Pick any bike... if you have the dealer do all of the servicing you better get ready to bend over.  This even applies to the dead simple Harleys.  The HD dealers get an obscene amount of money to perform routine maintenance.  Does this mean that all Harley owners are stupid???

[IvanJ]

Yes but why every 7,500 miles?  

To account for wear.  That is the price of entry for the highly efficient desmo valve train.

Most japanese makes have moved on to every 15k or 26k miles (Yamaha).

Most bikes don't use the desmo valve system.

[st ryder]

Lately, Ducati has been spreading word that their bikes requires "less maintenance" than before.  I have even read somewhere that it is up to 50% less.  Heck!  So has anyone read the long term review of the Ducati 1098 in the latest Cycle World mag?

They just did the 7,500 mile service on the bike at a dealership in Socal:   $729 parts and labor!   

That service includes:
Valve inspection
Oil/filter change
Replace Spark plugs ($34 ea.)
Timing Belt Check
Re-set throttle Position Sensor

Labor rate is $90/hour.  Fairly standard in SoCal.  I had my car serviced at an independent shop and they charged the same rate.

I know Ducati's are sweet bikes but that ladies and gents is pretty fooking steep every 7,500 miles!  It would probably be easier to swallow every 15k miles but about twice a year?  It's a V-twin so shouldn't it be less?  Ouch!

I'm sure that my VFR would cost the same at 15k miles if I had the dealer do all the work.  Even then, I still think that is fooking ridiculous for a Honda!  And I can just hear some of you:  if you can't afford to pay, don't play.  I CAN afford to pay but that doesn't mean I'm that stupid!  In a day when we can get high performance automobiles that put out mega-horsepower yet don't pay that much every year in maintenance, they can make bikes that are similar!  For example, how about 50k miles spark plugs and coolant?  hydraulic roller-type valvetrains that don't go out of spec?  Self-resetting TPS sensors?  Why does Ducati insist on belt-driven cam drives that require constant checks and replacements?

  Oh, here's something new.  

Enjoy your VFR, they are nice bikes.  

Only if you ever reach a point when you need something more from a motorcycle than your VFR can deliver will the answers to your questions become self-evident. Until then, nobody or no thing will convince you otherwise.  

  OWNING AND RIDING A DUCATI ROCKS!!!!

[Orson]

The magazines keep using the bland label when describing Hondas.

That's just so mean.  

[Rogue]

I don't think owning a Ducati is stupid.  BS... If the dealer did all the work, my modest BMW 330 coupe would cost way more in maintenance than my Duc.  Ever get a quote for an oil change from a BMW dealer?
Pick any bike... if you have the dealer do all of the servicing you better get ready to bend over.  This even applies to the dead simple Harleys.  The HD dealers get an obscene amount of money to perform routine maintenance.  Does this mean that all Harley owners are stupid???

I never said owning a Ducati is stupid.  Where the hell did you get that?  I said paying that much for maintenance every 7,500  miles is stupid!

BTW, BMW's are known to have exhorbitant maintance costs.  This is why they usually include all maintenance as part of the price at least for the first 36 or 48 months.  I thought the engines on those things come with Mobil 1 Synthetic and don't need frequent oil changes?  In any case, making service part of the price makes the maintenance costs transparent to the car's primary owners.  Later owners usually have the burden of the expensive maintenance.  You bought a 330i then I guess you prepared yourself to pay for all that maintenance.  You could have bought some other car that required less maintenance with similar performance but you didn't.  I'm not blaming you for that, nor do you have to justify that decision.    

Now if you want to compare Ducati maintenance to a H-D, you will loose all the time.  Today's modern H-D with the exception of the VR-engines require no more than an oil/filter change, spark plugs and air filters.  They don't even need primary chain inspections nor TPS sensor resets.  Also, H-D charges the standard $90/hour labor rate just like the Ducati.  I can assure you that the maintenance on a modern H-D do not come near $700 every 7,500 miles, not even at 15k miles.  Now on a Japanese bike, it may indeed approach $700 for the 15k/24k mile service if you have the dealer do everything.  Just not every 7,500 miles.  Japanese manufacturers have moved away from that number many years ago.  And that was my original point.  Why do Ducs require major maintenance every 7,500 miles?  And $34/spark plug?  You're kidding me!  Good thing there's only two!

[Rogue]

Only if you ever reach a point when you need something more from a motorcycle than your VFR can deliver will the answers to your questions become self-evident. Until then, nobody or no thing will convince you otherwise.  

  OWNING AND RIDING A DUCATI ROCKS!!!!

You're kidding right?  You sound like a very elitist Ducatisti by implying the Ducatis will deliver where the VFR cannot.  Shea right! 

Want to know the REAL truth?  Ducatis are nice bikes.  But the Japanese can make better bikes at half the price. 

C'mon, you know that's true.  Pick a market niche, any market niche and tell me which one does Ducati offer a superior product?  The only area where Ducati shines is in sportbikes.  They have the 1098 and the 798.  Both are excellent bikes in their own rights.  But Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki all make equivalent models that are just as good at half their prices and less maintenance.  So please don't tell me there's anything more than meets the eye when it comes to Ducati bikes.  I only drink two brands of Kool Aids:  Honda and Buell.   

[Orson]

A lot of Ducati owners pay more because of that intangible, ethereal feeling Italian bikes are capable of providing.

They appreciate that feeling.

Just like some people appreciate French impressionist paintings, while others only see squiggly lines. For those who don't appreciate impressionists, Honda provides a model range.

The 300 Ducati world championships compared to Honda's 2 is only icing on the cake  

[atadaskew]

 Pick a market niche, any market niche and tell me which one does Ducati offer a superior product? 

Ok, I'll play.  When I was shopping for an St type bike I first test rode a Vtec VFR.  I found it heavy, bland, boring and slow with low end suspension with minimum adjustability.  There was absolutely no excitement in that bike for me.
I then test rode a St4s. Holy crap was that something.  Lighter, a dynamite motor that had power everywhere, much better suspension, better handling.  And forget about the sound and feel of the v-twin.  Guess which one I bought?
Yah Ducati dropped the sport tourers due to the fact that they are a small niche company and St bikes are an even smaller niche! So, focus where the money is.  Too bad.
Enjoy the Honda.

But, to your point of service costs. I'm not going to defend what the dealers charge.  It's nuts. But you can either do it yourself or go to an indie shop - there are some fantastic ones out there better than the dealers (I go to motoservizio in Signal Hill) that will do the service, better, for literally half the price.
Before I knew about this I was willing to eat the service costs because I was, and still am, absolutely obsessed by the bike.  5 years on and it still does it for me.  Every Honda that I have owned I have kept maybe 2 years tops before I became bored with it and sold it.  Now lets talk about costs, seeing the money I lost on those transactions!
$750 for a 7500 job is expensive.  But even if you were willing to pay for that just work it into your budget.  How much is a Starbucks run? $4?  Do that 5 times a week (as lots of peeps do) and you're looking at $80/month.  $400 in 5 months.  Stop doing that and your service cost works out to be $350 if you ride 7500 miles every 5 months.
It all comes down to what things are worth to you.  To me Ducatis are completely worth it.  You pays your money, you makes your choice.

[JoBu]

A lot of Ducati owners pay more because of that intangible, ethereal feeling Italian bikes are capable of providing.

They appreciate that feeling.

Just like some people appreciate French impressionist paintings, while others only see squiggly lines. For those who don't appreciate impressionists, Honda provides a model range.

+1 Well put, Orson.  I also had much the same experience as Atadaskew as well.  Lots of folks will dismiss those intangibles and claim that there is no true difference in "feeling" that a bike can give a ride, but then again, there are folks who buy The Lion King soundtrack.      Why do people sink thousands upon thousands of dollars into hi-end audio equipment while other folks are content so listen to music through a basic 5.1 surrounds system?  Because it makes them happy perhaps, on both counts?  Most likely so.  I really enjoy my R1 and it simply crushed my old '99 Duc 900SS on paper.  Yet, I would find myself grabbing the key for the Duc 4 out of 5 times (and no, I'm not a dentist).    And for the record, I feel my R1 makes all the VFRs I've ridden feel quite bland, so if I owned both, I'd be chaulking up a lot more miles on the R1 than the VFR.  But that's just me.  

Simply stated, it comes down to whether or not it really speaks to you or not.  If it does, you'll be willing to pay extra for the maintenance or try to find more affordable routes to get it done.  If not, well, buy something that makes you happy and let it be.  I guess I don't understand why the topic was even brought up.  Ducati owners as well as many non-Ducati owners are aware of the maintenance costs associated with the bikes.  And while you didn't come out and call Ducati Owners stupid, by association with the maintenance costs you posted, you implied as much.  And if not stupid...at least a little nuts...LOL  So don't be shocked if a few feathers get ruffled.    Hey, after all it is the internet, right?  

And for the record, I paid $1500 for 3 years free maintenance (unlimited mileage) for my ST4s (the dreaded 4-valve, liquid-cooled brick).    Hopefully I won't appear stupid in your eyes.  If I were to appear so, I don't know how I could go on...  (Hope you know I'm just kidding around).    

Cheers,

Joe

[Ghost Dog]

It's like owning a Ferrari over a Corvette or a Stealth. Respective owners can argue stats and featues ad-nauseum, but the biggest difference is intangible. Anyone who cannot understand, can (and probaboy does):

Drink wine out of a box.

Buy their clothes at Walmart.

Play a Squier guitar.

Celebrate something by having a Steakhouse Burger.

Wear a Sears suit to an important job interview.

[marc11]

Can someone tell me what the point of his post is?  His point seems to be that motorcycles, all except HD are maintenance intensive, some more than others, DUH, WELCOME TO NOW.  What is the difference between a bike requiring 7500 mile valve checks and 15k valve checks, when, if in your comparison, cars and HD bikes do not require them?  All bikes that require ANY maintenance over a car, using your logic is inefficient and stupid, no?  Why not pick on tires that only last 4k miles?

And since when is having a v-twin cheaper than any other number of cylinders, do you think dealers charge by the cylinder?  Just ask Buell 1125 owners who need to drop the engine to change the front plug.  It is only one plug, shouldn't it be cheaper than changing the two in my Versys?

Listen, the only mystery about Ducati maintenance is the fact that A) There is no mystery! If you buy a Duc and then are surprised by the maintenance schedule and costs, you are indeed an idiot, B) most maintenance can be done at home, if you can change the oil in a VFR you can change it just the same in a Ducati, D) Paying $90 an hour when there are more than qualified ind shops out there that charge actual work hours at a reasonable rate instead of the "book" rate, is just silly and finally E) It is a known fact, if set up correctly valves do not have to be checked nearly as often and belts changed nearly as often as Ducati recommends.

Finally, had they changed the oil and filter and ignored the TPS (doesn't usually need checking) and take out TAX (this is a big factor and should always be removed when comparing apples to apples costs since tax rates and tax able items vary) I am willing to bet the cost for the valve check and belt check was less than $600, which isn't that bad considering the labor rate.  Take it to an independent shop and I bet that cost drops below $500.

[Brad1445]

I don't pay much more for maintenance on my Duc than my Busa, and I love my Duc.

PS:  I purchased unlimited 3 year maintenance on both bikes,

[scratch]

...Pick a market niche, any market niche and tell me (in) which one does Ducati offer a superior product? 

Answer: the Ducati niche.  

[atadaskew]

Answer: the Ducati niche.  

Hmm, the RC51 and SuperHawk used to try to reside in that too....

[IvanJ]

I never said owning a Ducati is stupid.  Where the hell did you get that?  I said paying that much for maintenance every 7,500  miles is stupid!

So by implication, anyone that owns a Duc and pays the going rate to have it serviced must be stupid....  that is very narrow minded.  Given how slowly I work, it would be more cost effective to have the dealer do my valve adjustments.  I only choose to do it myself because I want the clearances set to my satisfaction, and I enjoy doing it.

BTW, BMW's are known to have exhorbitant maintance costs.  This is why they usually include all maintenance as part of the price at least for the first 36 or 48 months.  I thought the engines on those things come with Mobil 1 Synthetic and don't need frequent oil changes?  In any case, making service part of the price makes the maintenance costs transparent to the car's primary owners.  Later owners usually have the burden of the expensive maintenance.  You bought a 330i then I guess you prepared yourself to pay for all that maintenance.  You could have bought some other car that required less maintenance with similar performance but you didn't.  I'm not blaming you for that, nor do you have to justify that decision.    

As a long time owner, you're not telling me something I don't already know.  Besides, its all irrelevant.  The point I was making is that if you take ANYTHING to a dealership (BMW, HD, even a boring Honda), you are going to get raped.  Why should a Duc be any different?

Now if you want to compare Ducati maintenance to a H-D, you will loose all the time.  Today's modern H-D with the exception of the VR-engines require no more than an oil/filter change, spark plugs and air filters.  They don't even need primary chain inspections nor TPS sensor resets.  Also, H-D charges the standard $90/hour labor rate just like the Ducati.  I can assure you that the maintenance on a modern H-D do not come near $700 every 7,500 miles, not even at 15k miles.

Nowhere did I say that the cost of maintaining an HD was comparable to a Duc.  I said that the dealers get an obscene amount of money for performing simple maintenance like an oil change.  Same point as above, just a different example.  BTW, I used to own an HD, and you do need to adjust the primary chain something like every 7500mi, not that its difficult or anything.

 Now on a Japanese bike, it may indeed approach $700 for the 15k/24k mile service if you have the dealer do everything.

OK, so now you're getting it, you seem to realize how pointless your original post is.


Enjoy your VFR; having ridden one once, I know that I would not be satisfied even if it came with free maintenance for life.

[Baz]

 

[st ryder]

...You're kidding right?  You sound like a very elitist Ducatisti by implying the Ducatis will deliver where the VFR cannot.  Shea right! 

  ROTFLMAO!!  

Okay, let me see if I get your double standard right: I'm a Ducati elitist for loving owning and riding my Ducati because I both desire and appreciate those things that your VFR can never deliver, but you, who drinks Buell and Honda Kool Aid before he goes trolling for no good reason is *not* an elitist?  

Like I said above, until you are tired of owning Japanese bikes because they leave you wanting more after a ride, you *cannot* "get it." Ducati owners don't begrudge the expenses of owning a Ducati because they exchange their money for the joy that their Ducatis give them.

If I'm a Ducati elitist, then you are a Honda conformist for owning just another motorised recreational product made by a company that seems to have lost its passion for motorcycles years ago. Oh, but I forgot, you also own a Buell, so that makes you a person who according to you appreciates bikes that are different, not main stream, but somehow you fail to see this exact similar quality in Ducati motorcycles. It seems that Kool Aid you're drinking makes you as big a hypocrite as you are a troll.