FJR 1300 vs ST 1300 annual sales numbers

[FlowBee]

My local Honda dealer, about six miles from the (former) Honda US motorcycle factory, still has a new 07 ST-A on the floor.   It sure it pretty, but it IS a two year old bike (which is really a six year old bike).  They've marked it down a grand already.  Maybe I'll go in there and give them $13.5 K for it next month ... or buy a BMW.

Honda's Achilles heel is their hubris.  There are known, well-documented annoying issues with the current 03-09 ST which could have easily been fixed mid-term for a very nominal cost.  No -- once Honda casts the mold, it is done.  No changes allowed during the product life cycle.  Yamaha, a much smaller manufacturer, listens to buyers.  But admitting error doesn't fit into Honda's global powersports business plan.  

They'd better wake up.  My ST1100 only has another 200K miles left on it.  

[atadaskew]

 There are known, well-documented annoying issues with the current 03-09 ST which could have easily been fixed mid-term for a very nominal cost.

Such as?

[CLMixon]

My local Honda dealer, about six miles from the (former) Honda US motorcycle factory, still has a new 07 ST-A on the floor.   It sure it pretty, but it IS a two year old bike (which is really a six year old bike). They've marked it down a grand already. Maybe I'll go in there and give them $13.5 K for it next month ... or buy a BMW.

Honda's Achilles heel is their hubris. There are known, well-documented annoying issues with the current 03-09 ST which could have easily been fixed mid-term for a very nominal cost.  No -- once Honda casts the mold, it is done.  No changes allowed during the product life cycle.  Yamaha, a much smaller manufacturer, listens to buyers.  But admitting error doesn't fit into Honda's global powersports business plan.  

They'd better wake up.  My ST1100 only has another 200K miles left on it.  

If they dropped a grand off the price and it's 13.5K, that may be why they still have an ABS on the floor.  Most of us paid around 13.5K or less for ABS 1300's new.  I wanted an FJR in 04 but was not going to buy a bike without even seeing it.  Bought the ST and liked it so much that when I totaled it in 06, I replaced it with an 06 ABS.  

While I agree that the current FJR has been well adjusted to meet user complaints, let's not forget that while Honda did a recall, Yamaha caught a lot of grief over how they handled the "ticking" issue.

In terms of numbers, about 5000 St-1300 a year to the US is what I have always heard, (accuracy totally unknown) with about 1500 of them ABS.

ST-Owners is at about 8800 members and while not all of them are 1300's or even ST riders.  That is still a pretty good number of Internet using/ ST riding folks.  
Whats the population for Warchild and company's FJR site?  might reflect numbers a little.

Chris

[Giaka]

 Which one is the more popular bike?

Each bike is more popular with its own following. Simple answer really.

[DataDan]

I posted info on US registrations of the two (and a couple of other models) in a recent thread on ABS effectiveness.

[Baz]

Data in the ABS/fatality study was very thin--15 ABS deaths vs. 107 non-ABS. The "confidence level" in their conclusion was 90%, which basically means there's a 10% chance the result was a fluke. The gold standard for studies like this is 95% confidence.

A better indicator of ABS effectiveness is an earlier study of insurance claims on ABS vs non-ABS motorcycles. ABS-equipped bikes had 19% fewer claims (weighted for registrations), and confidence level was high at 99%.

No BMWs were included in either of the studies. For a bike to be included, they had to be able to determine presence of ABS from VIN, and that isn't possible with BMWs. On a VFR, for example, ABS is indicated with a VIN of JH2RC464... and non-ABS by JH2RC461...

One interesting tidbit to come out of the IIHS ABS studies is the numbers of registered motorcycles of various models. The following includes both ABS and non-ABS models registered in 2005-2006. Units are registration-years:

Honda Gold Wing	113,155
Honda Interceptor 800	12,744
Honda Reflex	17,502
Honda ST1300	10,583
Honda Silver Wing	13,551
Suzuki Burgman 650	9,927
Triumph Sprint ST	4,611
Yamaha FJR1300	15,220

So the FJR seems to be more popular than both the ST and VFR. And the 'Wing is in a whole 'nother league.

FYI, I'm attaching charts on ABS braking performance from a USDOT/Tranport Canada experiment (PDF). I created the charts from data in the report. Units are braking deceleration in g, so a larger number means better braking.

Thanks Dan.

[spd2918]

Who cares?  Ride what you want.  All this "vs" stuff is a little silly.

[Orson]

Who cares?  Ride what you want.  All this "vs" stuff is a little silly.

You show up at an Ossa rally wearin' a Bultaco t shirt...there's gonna be words  

It's the nature of motorcyclists the world over.

nuthin like sittin across the camp fire from a compadre an tellin' him how much his bike sucks  

[naustin]

My local Honda dealer, about six miles from the (former) Honda US motorcycle factory, still has a new 07 ST-A on the floor.   It sure it pretty, but it IS a two year old bike (which is really a six year old bike).  They've marked it down a grand already.  Maybe I'll go in there and give them $13.5 K for it next month ... or buy a BMW.

Honda's Achilles heel is their hubris.  There are known, well-documented annoying issues with the current 03-09 ST which could have easily been fixed mid-term for a very nominal cost.  No -- once Honda casts the mold, it is done.  No changes allowed during the product life cycle.  Yamaha, a much smaller manufacturer, listens to buyers.  But admitting error doesn't fit into Honda's global powersports business plan.  

They'd better wake up.  My ST1100 only has another 200K miles left on it.  

$13,500?!  You're nuts.  I paid 11,900 (+tax) for my 07 non-abs.  ABS is worth maybe $500.  So, you should pay no more than $12,500 (+tax)...

[Ben_Dover]

Yep, it's an aging demographic.

Take me to your leader.

[cworley5150]

$13,500?!  You're nuts.  I paid 11,900 (+tax) for my 07 non-abs.  ABS is worth maybe $500.  So, you should pay no more than $12,500 (+tax)...

I also bought a 2007 non-ABS in September this year for $11.5k.  He should be able to get them down to 12.5 easy enough.  I think the sticker price of the ST keeps many riders from even looking at it.  They just move on to the FJR sometimes based on price alone.  From what I have seen, the actual prices people pay for the bikes are not that different.  It was pretty much a toss up for me.

[Blrfl]

Such as?

Thermostat failures (replaced with an aftermarket unit).  Hose clamps that can't keep their joints sealed (replaced with Breeze constant-torque clamps).  Regular destruction of left headlight bulbs (haven't fixed that yet).  Insufficient front fender (augmented with Fenda Extenda).

Despite those annoyances, I'm happy with mine.

--Mark

[atadaskew]

 Insufficient front fender (augmented with Fenda Extenda).

I glued one of those onto my Duc.  Great product, looks stock.  I have no idea why fenders on most bikes are too short.

[radman]

I glued one of those onto my Duc.  Great product, looks stock.  I have no idea why fenders on most bikes are too short.

So people can buy 'em for under thirteen five.

[jahoobob]

but can they catch an FJR?

Don't have to.  Just wait 'til the Yamaha breaks down.

[Baz]

I also bought a 2007 non-ABS in September this year for $11.5k.  He should be able to get them down to 12.5 easy enough.  I think the sticker price of the ST keeps many riders from even looking at it.  They just move on to the FJR sometimes based on price alone.  From what I have seen, the actual prices people pay for the bikes are not that different.  It was pretty much a toss up for me.

The FJR costs about a Grand more here. They still sell more FJR's.

[FJR1300]

Whats the population for Warchild and company's FJR site?  might reflect numbers a little.

Maybe not, a lot of us FJR owners have been banned from the site or have just left.

[Bounce]

 
 

[JGreb]

Maybe not, a lot of us FJR owners have been banned from the site or have just left.

I have noticed FJR owner's eat their own, but you meet the nicest people on a Honda.  

[FJR1300]

 
 

I ain't crying... just stating a fact!

By the way... go fuck yourself!