Looking For FJR Steering Bearings

[mxvet57]

looking to upgrade the steering bearings to taperd roller bearings. what I'm trying to find out is if any of you STN'rs know the bearing & race numbers, or where i can find it at.

[tomek]

All balls bearing kits http://www.allballsracing.com/Product_Lookup_results.asp ,Ive got mine from Dennis Kirk.

As far as their steering kits it is essential to repack bearings with some real high temp grease prior to instalation.

[mxvet57]

All balls bearing kits http://www.allballsracing.com/Product_Lookup_results.asp ,Ive got mine from Dennis Kirk.

As far as their steering kits it is essential to repack bearings with some real high temp grease prior to instalation.

thanks a lot. just looked it up in the Dennis kirk catalog and that's what I'm looking for. will order tomorrow.

as far as the grease, i have been using bel ray waterproof grease since 1975 and have never had a problem.

[kevin_stevens]

All balls bearing kits http://www.allballsracing.com/Product_Lookup_results.asp ,Ive got mine from Dennis Kirk.

As far as their steering kits it is essential to repack bearings with some real high temp grease prior to instalation.

Why on earth would you need high temp grease in the steering head?  

KeS

[roadthing]

There is no reason to switch to tapered roller bearings. Switching to them is not an "upgrade".

If you had a very heavy front end with a stupid amount of rake, it would be the only sensible thing to do. Tapered roller bearings are made for that type of loading, but will still require periodic maintenance.

There is a reason that many high-performance sportbikes use spherical bearings, and it isn't because of cost. If you have a light front end assembly with quick steering geometry, spherical bearings will provide more than enough load bearing capability. They will provide you with a smooth, easy feeling steering action. You could also argue that spherical bearings are capable of providing feedback from the front end to the rider slightly better than a tapered roller bearing, as the tapered roller assembly will dampen feedback to a degree due to their design. The lack of feel is not a flaw in the design of the tapered roller bearing, it is performing as it was designed to do.

Be aware that when you are dealing with tapered roller bearings, they are not very forgiving. Let me explain this: Tapered roller bearings will NOT handle misalignment of a journal very well. If your upper and lower bearing races are out of alignment by a few degrees (approx. 10 degrees), you'll be out of tolerance, and the bearings will wear prematurely. Tapered roller bearings MUST be properly loaded in order to work. If you over torque your steering stem nut, you'll bind the bearings, and they will fail rapidly along with the races (think early to mid 90's H-D FXSTS). Conversely, if you under torque your steering stem nut, your bearings and races will get pounded into oblivion in short order. You must be very careful when installing this type of bearing. You can only apply driving force to the inner races, and if you damage the bearing cage, you can toss out that shiny new bearing, and it's matched outer race. That's right, these bearings are factory matched to outer races.

Spherical bearings when used in the proper application are great. They are easier to work with, require few (if any) special tools to install or remove, are slightly more forgiving, have fewer parts to wear (no cages or bearing brakes), and they are cost effective.

Both spherical and tapered roller bearings do require maintenance. You will need to periodically clean and inspect them (easier on the spherical bearings), and also lubricate them. For steering head bearings, you should consider a premium EP grease, such as a name-brand wheel bearing grease. FWIW, most wheel bearing greases have a very wide optimum operating range, so a specialty high temperature grease isn't necessary. Most greases are lithium based, and some are Molybdenum based, either will work, the Moly being somewhat overkill here. What is necessary, is that the grease you select is resistant to wash out. Some cheaper greases can be washed away, or diluted by water getting past the dust seals on the steering stems. These cheaper greases can actually suspend moisture in them, due to their cheap metallic base matrix. That is not a good thing. If you want to spring for a really good grease, try and get your hands on Klüber wheel bearing grease. That stuff is fantastic, but outside of Europe, it's not so easy to find. An excellent grease for steering neck bearings (spherical, or tapered roller) would be Harley-Davidson Special Purpose Grease. I know that this will be easier to find, and don't think because it's sold at a H-D dealer that it won't work for you. It is a great grease, and won't "sour" like some greases, and is a long-life EP grease. It is NOT formulated for wheel bearings, but rather for low speed high load bearings subjected to high loads like neck bearings. This grease comes in a cartridge tube, not a tub. If you have a standard sized grease gun, life just got easier.

One final note is that when lubricating, LESS IS MORE. If you over pack a bearing, you'll do as much damage as you would under packing a bearing. Over packing will cause a heat build up, and it can cause bearing skate. Should you ultimately choose the tapered roller bearing conversion, invest in a cheap bearing packer. A bearing packer works better than the old tried and true hand method, or even the more inventive zip-lock baggie method.

[kevin_stevens]

Interesting information - could you clarify your distinctions and comments between "tapered roller bearing" (which you started and ended with), and "tapered needle bearing", which you expressed all sorts of concerns with in the middle?  I thought they were different things, but I'm not an expert.

Tx!

KeS

[roadthing]

Interesting information - could you clarify your distinctions and comments between "tapered roller bearing" (which you started and ended with), and "tapered needle bearing", which you expressed all sorts of concerns with in the middle?  I thought they were different things, but I'm not an expert.

Tx!

KeS

Absolutely, thanks for pointing that out! Sorry about the confusion, tapered roller, and tapered needle are two different beasts. I work many types of bearings constantly, and made a very careless mistake by using the two designations indiscriminately. I guess I'm getting lax lately   In my previous post, please bear in mind I am solely referring to tapered roller bearings, not needle. I'll see if I can edit it to reflect this.

Tapered roller bearings are the type of bearings you find in applications such as automotive wheels, some motorcycle neck bearings, and innumerable uses. The rollers in the bearing cages are exactly that, rollers. Tapered needle bearings are a specialty item, and you might find them in some high speed light load small gear assemblies. Needle bearings (not tapered), are used in such places as shaft and journal supports, or in individual gears like in a transmission. The needles in the races and cages are miniature rollers, and spread the load over more individual needles, versus larger rollers. Needle bearing are also available as clutch or "one-way" bearings, where the bearing will only allow rotation of a gear, shaft, or other workpiece in one direction.

I don't have concerns about tapered roller bearings at all. They are designed to do a specific task, and they do it well. I am limiting my opinion to the use of them as a replacement to spherical bearings in the case of an FJR. I strongly feel that sticking with spherical bearings for that application is a better choice than converting to tapered roller bearings.

If the OP was asking about converting an old H-D Sportster (they ate spherical bearings), or a raked out bike, or any bike with a heavy front end and poor steering geometry, I would urge them to use tapered roller bearings. But not in this case. It just isn't necessary.

[2RR2NV]

then why would so many FJR owners swap over....? i was intending to do the same thing cause i'm noticing some slop in that area. sometimes when i stop pretty quick (but not slam on the brakes, just a bit more than usual) i get this helacious vibration that i can feel the handlebars moving front to back (very quickly). and when i finally let off the brakes to "relax" at the stoplight, i feel the handlebars shift a wee bit. it's not the brakes since i should notice something most of the time. but alas, not so. i've had bad brakes (worn out) and this ain't it.

[roadthing]

then why would so many FJR owners swap over....? i was intending to do the same thing cause i'm noticing some slop in that area. sometimes when i stop pretty quick (but not slam on the brakes, just a bit more than usual) i get this helacious vibration that i can feel the handlebars moving front to back (very quickly). and when i finally let off the brakes to "relax" at the stoplight, i feel the handlebars shift a wee bit. it's not the brakes since i should notice something most of the time. but alas, not so. i've had bad brakes (worn out) and this ain't it.

Why do so many FJR owners swap over? I don't know, a combination of marketing and a little of the lemming effect perhaps? It's just like anything else with motorcycles. You know what I mean, "My buddy just switched to brand X spark plugs, and now he gets 100 MPG!" Soon enough, everybody is going to rave about brand X spark plugs.

To see if your neck bearings are to blame, prop up your bike with the front end free-floating. Don't use a front-end stand, headstock stand or string it up by the handlebars. Have someone steady the bike as you grab the fork legs and try to wiggle them. Notice if the sliders move appreciably, because if they do, there's a problem: Worn slider bushings. If the sliders are solid, and the entire fork assembly shakes, you have a steering stem bearing problem. I know you said you feel play in the handlebars, but front end problems can be masters of disguise.

Your problem may be that you need to re-torque your stem nut, or that the bearings and/or races are shot. I'd replace them with the original style bearings. Changing over to tapered roller bearings does NOT mean that you won't ever have to replace them, or that they don't ever need to be cleaned/checked/lubed. They need maintenance as well.

You don't mention your mileage, so I couldn't safely say that it's more likely one problem over the other. If you have never done any steering stem bearing maintenance and you are around 20K miles, it's time to do it.

If you pull your fork and find grooves worn into the races, PLEASE buy new races. Replacing the spherical bearings alone won't do you any good. You can remove the races yourself without buying any ridiculously expensive tools, or relinquishing your bike to a shop.

[Powerman]

I guess I'm a foolish Lemming, I actually like the tapered bearings on my FJR.

[Andrew]

I have 40k on tapered roller bearings (twice the millage as original) and they feel great. Smother than stock

Lemmings unite

[kevin_stevens]

I'd check the torque on the steering stem nut first, just because it's so much easier.  I'm lazy.  

My ZX-14 started clicking under braking when it was about three months old - I was going "oh, no".  Just on the off chance, checked the stem nut - supposed to be at 78 ft-lbs, it was at around 30.    Easy fix.

KeS

[kevin_stevens]

If you pull your fork and find grooves worn into the races, PLEASE buy new races. Replacing the spherical bearings alone won't do you any good. You can remove the races yourself without buying any ridiculously expensive tools, or relinquishing your bike to a shop.

What if they look like this?  

KeS

[roadthing]

What if they look like this?  

KeS

That's what neglect, or a really bad assembly job can look like: Ugly.

Good catch on your steering stem nut. You would be amazed at how many times I have found that to be the root of many complaints.

[roadthing]

I guess I'm a foolish Lemming, I actually like the tapered bearings on my FJR.

You are not a foolish lemming, unless you choose to be one. You made a choice to change out a part. It's your bike, and  your decision.

My whole point is that it's not necessary to switch to a tapered roller bearing, when a spherical set will do the job just as well.

The perceived need to use a tapered roller bearing in this application is based more on hype than fact. In the end, it's all a matter of preference.

[roadthing]

I have 40k on tapered roller bearings (twice the millage as original) and they feel great. Smother than stock

Lemmings unite

40k on tapered roller bearings is nothing. Keep them lubed, and inspect them annually, and they'll last indefinitely. I got 125K out of a pair back in the 90's on a FLH, which requires tapered roller bearings.

If you only got 20K out of your stockers, you had a problem with either the factory assembly, or some other factor contributed to their premature failure. Any new, and correctly adjusted neck bearing set will feel great. Smoother than stock I doubt, unless your stockers were shot.

[thatguy]

63K on the angular contact ball bearings in my Tuono.Lots of wheelies and stoppies.One a year disassemble the forks (fork oil too) and clean the bearings,pack with grease.Reassemble,torque to 29 LB-FT,loosen then retorque to 14.5 LB-FT.They are expensive so I've lightened up on the wheelies/stoppies.Stick with the balls and take care of them.Then again who cares about steering feel on a 600 lb barge?

[2RR2NV]

uh...me..  thenagain, i "feel" bike trying to detect if anything might be going wrong and want it corrected before disaster hits. but that's just me. i'm paranoid for certain things.

[thatguy]

Have you serviced the bearings?That would be a logical place to start.

[2RR2NV]

naw...  i'm lacking in my maintenance. it only has 8k on it. wouldn't figure it would have problems already. but no biggie. not riding much anyways since all the flippin snow is in my way. plus, also, i don't have a surefire way to work on the bearings safely and securely. adn No, i can not use the ceiling to do the job cause it's not my ceiling (base housing). plus i don't trust the beams. we've had people's ceilings cave in after some snow...gotta suck when you use a garage for storing a vehicle...some people.    oh well, i so wish i had my ole house. then i could do what i want, however i want.