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Topic: 990 Adventure v. 1200 GS  (Read 34369 times)

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R Doug
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« on: January 08, 2009, 10:36:55 PM »

Ok, say you're looking for a good touring bike to add to the garage.  Let's say you'll mostly ride country back roads and like the flexibility of a few dirt roads thrown in (300 - 400 miles per day on a long trip).

I like the ergos of both bikes.  I like the aftermarket for both too.  I'm also considering a Uly, but I really don't think I can put up with the motor over a long period of time, it does nothing for me except make me dislike it more.  And no, I'm not considering a V-Strom.  Don't even start.  Other bikes on my list are as follows:  Tiger, Multi, and Versys.  But, it's pretty much down to the Adv. and the GS becuase of the better off road ability.  

I've test ridden a 990 Adv. but not a 1200 GS.  I plan to test ride both this year.  But I'm beginning my homework and information gathering process.

So... I start sorting my pros and cons...

Ride Quality:

BMW - appears to be a bit more comfortable and may be better on road than the KTM

KTM - I've not read bad things about it on the asphalt, but I remember the seat is a little narrow from my test ride

Motor:

BMW - never ridden a BMW twin.  

KTM - can you get any better than the LC8 for a twin?  Great motor.

Maintenance:

BMW - owner manual says value adj every 6k, but it seems like I could learn to do this on my own.  Shaft drive so little maintenance on the road.  Closest dealer is 80 miles away from home and it's pretty inconvenient to get to/from.  This would be the very reason I would shy away from the Tiger and the Multi too.

KTM - If it's like my Super Duke, major service is done around every 10,500 miles.  Chain drive; so what, I'm used to it.  Closest dealer is 4 miles away from home.

Price:

With full luggage, Katoom is about $1K less than the BMW based on MSRP.  I know my local BMW dealer is difficult to move from MSRP.  My local KTM dealer will work with me.  Price advantage = KTM.


Right now, I'm really leaning towards the Adventure.  Any comments or words of wisdom?  Am I missing something?

« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 05:08:51 PM by R Doug » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2009, 10:50:25 PM »

Since it sounds like you're going more for comfort than dirt, I'd recommend the BMW. It can't be beat for comfort and I find that the twin is incredibly smooth on both dirt and pavement. Sure, the KTM might be better offroad, but I'd gauge the choice by just how much "dirt" you intend to ride.

Oh, and the BMW is dead easy to work on. Super easy. And if I say that, this it must really be easy  Bigsmile
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2009, 10:58:03 PM »

Very good information indeed.  Thanks.

I can't wait to test ride a GS.  And, I like the fact I can order a lowered version from the factory.  
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2009, 11:26:37 PM »


 

KTM - can you get any better than the LC8 for a twin?  Great motor.





Did the 990 you rode have a surging FI?  I really wanted to love the 990 but the Adventure that I demoed at the bike show had maybe the worst surging FI that I have ever experienced on a constant throttle.  When I mentioned it to the ride leader, he said they all do that.
Ruined the bike for me.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/Desmolicious/KTM990.jpg
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2009, 11:37:15 PM »

Ride a GSADV and 990ADV.  You have noted the diffs well... 12GS vs. 990.  Rode a 12GS until the ADV came along.  Love it... the appearance, massive range, protection (including from the tank), confident and comfy ride, etc.... and it is still fine on forest roads.  But that LC8 engine.  If only the GS had that powerplant.

For rides over 200+ miles, and at speed on highways, prefer the GSADV.  

For shorter rides, backroads, off roads, prefer the 990ADV.

Would lean towards the GS as well.  Would be a a diverse and sweet complement to your Duke.  
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 11:45:06 PM »



Did the 990 you rode have a surging FI?  I really wanted to love the 990 but the Adventure that I demoed at the bike show had maybe the worst surging FI that I have ever experienced on a constant throttle.  When I mentioned it to the ride leader, he said they all do that.
Ruined the bike for me.
...


The 990ADV rented in Chile had a sensitive throttle and perhaps some minor surging, but it wasn't serious enough to discourage me from this outstanding bike.  The 990ADV in the barn here has a less sensitive throttle and no surging, so no, they don't all do that.
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2009, 12:05:17 AM »

Instead of the 990, test ride the last production year of the 950. I suggest that for two reasons:

-The last year of the 950 had many of the problems sorted out that earlier MYs had.
-The 950 is carbureted so there's none of that throttle snatchiness the fuel-injected 990 has.

I test rode a 950 Super Enduro and a 990 Adv at the Phoenix IMS in October. Three of us that rode the fuel injected KTMs (two Adventures and a Super Duke) all found the throttles to be snatchy when coming off idle.

The best description I've heard of the difference between the 9X0 Adv and the 12GS is
THe 9X0 is a dirt bike pretending ot be a touring bike.
The 12GS is touring bike pretending to be a dirt bike.

The engine on the 950 is intoxicating.
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2009, 09:32:31 AM »


I test rode a 950 Super Enduro and a 990 Adv at the Phoenix IMS in October. Three of us that rode the fuel injected KTMs (two Adventures and a Super Duke) all found the throttles to be snatchy when coming off idle.


Snatchy off idle was a minor issue compared to the constant hunting at steady throttle.  But the description of it being a huge dirt bike is so true, it was the easiest big bike I've ever ridden to do u-turns/balance on.
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2009, 10:02:06 AM »

It's easy and relatively cheep to make the 990 more comfortable,  is it easy to make the BMW more off road capable?  Besides you already know how to work on the motor.

Go KTM
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2009, 10:18:50 AM »

So just what kind of dirt do you think R. Doug is looking for? He specifically said "ride country back roads and like the flexibility of a few dirt roads thrown in (300 - 400 miles per day on a long trip)" So how "dirt" is "dirt? Something like this?





Or even this?



Any of those roads are easy on a GS. But if he's thinking of something more like this then I might suggest the KTM (although it's do-able on an Adventure for sure):




So tell us, R. Doug - just what is "dirt" to you??
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2009, 11:13:30 AM »

The former, not the latter.  I have the DR for the latter.   Bigsmile  But, when touring, who knows what I may come across.  I certainly would not intentionally plan on the more gnarly stuff, but crap happens sometimes (case in point)...

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2008/Ride%207-26-2008%20mud/DSCN0749.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2008/Ride%207-26-2008%20mud/DSCN0757.jpg

I really look forward to test riding a GS this year.  I've never heard a bad thing about them.  On paper, it seems the perfect touring bike for me.  But, local dealer support is very important to me.  The KTM seems to be pretty close in comfort to the GS.  Besides, I currently tour in a Super Duke for God's sake, anything with more room is a plus.  And, I don't find the Super Duke to be all that uncomfortable at all.  I would like something with a softer suspension, improved wind protection for those sprints on long straight roads (or slab, if needed), and hard luggage.  

I would like something to tour more roads up north where there are frost heaves, straighter roads, and improved dirt roads (similar to DD's first two images).  So, New England, Canada, UP of Michigan, etc... That's where this bike would live in addition to various rides around home on the off-weather days or exploring new roads which I have no idea what to expect.  
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2009, 11:24:20 AM »


So just what kind of dirt do you think R. Doug is looking for? He specifically said "ride country back roads and like the flexibility of a few dirt roads thrown in (300 - 400 miles per day on a long trip)" So how "dirt" is "dirt? Something like this?
.
.
.
Any of those roads are easy on a GS. But if he's thinking of something more like this then I might suggest the KTM (although it's do-able on an Adventure for sure):






I think he may have answered his own question without realizing it. To cover 300-400 miles a day, you're going to spend a lot of time on pavement and a lot of time in the saddle. Rdoug: You should also read the ADVrider thread about windscreen-induced turbulence on the 9X0 Adventure and rider's attempts to cure it. Eight hours of turbulence will tire you out.

I've ridden my 12GS through dry desert washes filled with baby head-size rocks. It was do-able but the bike was a handful.


For something like this though the bike was fine on knobbies.Yours Truly:

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r291/billzbucket/misc/P3200020.jpg

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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2009, 12:17:31 PM »

I'm not sure I can add much to this discussion.  IMO, this really comes down to how much dirt you intend to do on it...and what kind of dirt.  As you've already noted, you have a DRZ for the gnarly stuff.

My quick thought:  

80% road, 20% dirt?  GS.    
50% road, 50% dirt:  KTM 9xx.  
20% road, 80% dirt:  DRZ, etc.

For me and my money, the KTM just doesn't do it.  I just don't do enough dirt to remotely do justice to it's dirt capacity.  And, to be frank, I just plain LOVE the BMW Telelever suspension.  The worse the road, the better it works.

BTW, I've read a lot on ADV about KTM maintenance.  In short, the KTM really does sound like a maintenance hog.  The GS may need a check/adjustment every 6k, but it's a 45 minute check and there's no plastic to come off the bike (which is seriously cool).

Personally, if I had a DRZ, I wouldn't bother with the KTM.  
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2009, 01:46:00 PM »

Have you considered a KLR?  (ducks and runs, chortling.)

I had an '04 1150GS and really liked it for pavment and easy dirt roads (USFS roads) and did do a little two track on it, but not much.  I wasn't a good enough rider to deal with the bike's weight.

They are amazing bikes and the boxer engine just churns along with not much vibes.  The GS has tubeless tires, don't know about the KTM.  The KTM sounds much, much better and the newer Katooms have better seats.  Riding buddy rode his 950 from Orygun to Florida and back and never complained about buffeting.  Did get blown over in a Santa Ana crosswind doing 55 mph, but that's another story (He and the bike came out fine and he motored onward.)

The other thing is the width of the Katoom with bags is much wider than GS, basically on the GS if the bars can squeeze through, so can the rest of the bike.

I'd still like a 990 Adv before I hang up my riding boots.  Also might want to PM XLR8, resident Idaho bike whore, who has a 990.
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2009, 02:42:37 PM »

If you're keeping the Duke, I'd go for the KTM. All you filters and other odds and end will be the same.


I was working on my 300EXC over the weekend and needed a bunch of stuff...it was nice when I already had it for the 640. Having two bikes that share maintenance items in nice.
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2009, 03:11:15 PM »


Have you considered a KLR?  (ducks and runs, chortling.)




 rofl
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2009, 04:50:35 PM »

The Sept. '08 "Motorcycle Consumer News" has a comparo between the GS, the KTM, and the Uly; the order listed is the order the finished although to give a better sense of the article's conclusion it was  GS.....KTM............................. ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... ....................................... .................................Uly

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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2009, 05:05:28 PM »

KTM rules.



Like wow,  I know women who ride a GS,   get a man's bike. Rolleyes
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2009, 05:07:36 PM »

I need to read that review.  I would be interested in their views.

I'm assuming they looked at the 12X Uly and not the 12XT.  
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2009, 05:37:55 PM »


Like wow,  I know women who ride a GS,   get a man's bike. Rolleyes



 Angry3 Angry3 Angry3

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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2009, 05:49:45 PM »





 Angry3 Angry3 Angry3




Go get 'em Hon!
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2009, 05:51:10 PM »




Go get 'em Hon!


You kidding? He's in the middle of fookin' nowhere!  Crazy  I'm not going to waste my time riding there just to kick his butt. Besides, he'd probably enjoy it (and that's what he has a wife for now...)
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2009, 12:52:51 AM »

The KTM 950/990 a maintenance hog because the owners ride them offroad and dirt wears things out.  Smile Other than that, it's not too bad. Changing the oil is a bit of a hassle and the valve adjustments are supposed to be a little more complex.

Comfort? I find my 990 just as comfortable as my FJR1300 was except that there is more wind buffeting and that's the compromise with a bike like the 990. The bike is designed to be ridden standing up on the pegs, not sitting down but the seat is comfortable. It's just that when doing above 85Mph it can get uncomfortable because of the wind.

My 990 had a snatchy throttle but most of it was solved with a remap of the FI as a result of a TSB from KTM. All good shops are doing this but the clueless shops are...well they are clueless. I still have some spots in the FI but it doesn't bother me too much. However the cure is this:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240706

What else...? Frak I don't know I'll think of some more stuff. I like my 990 a lot. I always own one.
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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2009, 08:20:26 AM »

I demo'd a GS Adventure and wasn't impressed. Didn't really like anything about it. Boring engine. No feedback from the suspension. Felt like riding a giant, cushy Teutonic couch. Too bland for my tastes. Felt very large and heavy but solidly built.

I need to ride a 9x0 Adventure some time. I know a few people that would be glad to swap bikes on a ride.

Personally, I would just get a used Wee Strom, throw a few bucks at upgrades and be happy for many thousands less than a BMW or KTM. Put TKC80s on one and I'd even take it on that WV dual-sport route you organized.
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« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2009, 09:52:18 AM »


Personally, I would just get a used Wee Strom, throw a few bucks at upgrades and be happy for many thousands less than a BMW or KTM. Put TKC80s on one and I'd even take it on that WV dual-sport route you organized.


You could very easily ride a Wee on the trip we did.  But, I tend to flog the DR by often "attacking" those roads and like the fact I can more comfortably back it into corners (as I'm slowly learning to do).  It's my niche off-road bike for around these parts.

Regarding BMW v. KTM, it looks like I just need to get out and test ride this year.

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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2009, 09:55:29 AM »

If you want another street bike then get the GS. If you want a big dirt bike that tours fairly well then big KTM. But you know these things.

Strom? No not even on the same planet. Uly?  Lol Sorry, the truth hurts.

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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2009, 11:18:15 AM »

     I have owned both of the above,  it seems you may be asking the wrong question,  The KTM is definately pointed more toward the dirt and the type of riding you mention is not really riding dirt,  just cruising some back dirt roads would make me ask the question should I buy a 1200 GS or a V Strom DL1000 for your type of riding I would go with the Strom,  one can buy 2 for the price of the BMW.  MTCW.  Aw now the pot is stirred........... Lol
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2009, 11:20:43 AM »

I don't care what type of bike anyone owns, heck I love the GS and think it's a sexy beast.  Inlove

However, why not pay less and get more of a dirt going vessel, especially if you already have a street bike? That was my logic when I purchased my 990.
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2009, 11:30:41 AM »


I demo'd a GS Adventure and wasn't impressed. Didn't really like anything about it. Boring engine. No feedback from the suspension. Felt like riding a giant, cushy Teutonic couch. Too bland for my tastes. Felt very large and heavy but solidly built.

I need to ride a 9x0 Adventure some time. I know a few people that would be glad to swap bikes on a ride.

Personally, I would just get a used Wee Strom, throw a few bucks at upgrades and be happy for many thousands less than a BMW or KTM. Put TKC80s on one and I'd even take it on that WV dual-sport route you organized.


How many miles did you ride it? I demo'd the GS before I bought the Aventure and the GS for 20 miles did not do it justice. Did you play with the ESA settings. Sounds like the aventure you rode did not have it. It's great riding on Colorado roads.
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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2009, 12:32:11 PM »


How many miles did you ride it? I demo'd the GS before I bought the Aventure and the GS for 20 miles did not do it justice. Did you play with the ESA settings. Sounds like the aventure you rode did not have it. It's great riding on Colorado roads.


About a 45 minute spirited ride on a mix of paved roads (some pretty beat up cowpaths). There was nothing wrong with it per se, but no aspect of it pushed my buttons. I don't recall it having ESA. I know I didn't play with it if it did. This was in 2006 I think. Just not the bike for me.
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« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2009, 01:50:17 PM »

I cannot bring myself to purchasing a V-Strom.  I'm sorry, but I find its looks offensive.   Lol  The appearance isn't everything to me, but it does play a role.

I know the GS and 990 Adv have like-it-or-leave-it looks too.  But I'm quite fond of the GS's industrial look and I love how the 990 Adv. looks just like a Dakar bike!  

Plus, I know I'm getting top shelf suspension with the BMW and KTM.  Heck, the Tiger is most likely off my list because of it's rear suspension and the Versys will most likely get kicked off too due to its suspension.  Yes, I'm that picky (or should I say discerning?    Lol )


EDIT TO ADD:  Regarding suspension, I'm talking about a bike's tendency to wallow under load of full luggage.  I've been on bikes that do that like my FZ1 and an older model Sprint.  Yes yes, I know you can adjust the suspension, but you can only adjust a crappy suspension so far to compensate.  
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« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2009, 01:53:44 PM »




I know the GS and 990 Adv have like-it-or-leave-it looks too.  But I'm quite fond of the GS's industrial look and I love how the 990 Adv. looks just like a Dakar bike!  




So you know the KTM Adventure bike was a Dakar bike correct? It was designed for that purpose, then became the Adventure for mass consumption. And that is why it was designed to be ridden standing up.
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« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2009, 01:55:30 PM »




So you know the KTM Adventure bike was a Dakar bike correct? It was designed for that purpose, then became the Adventure for mass consumption. And that is why it was designed to be ridden standing up.


Yes and no.  I did know it's modeled after a Dakar bike.  But, I didn't think they raced the liter sized version of the motor, just the 600s.  
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« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2009, 01:58:39 PM »




Yes and no.  I did know it's modeled after a Dakar bike.  But, I didn't think they raced the liter sized version of the motor, just the 600s.  


They raced the Liter bikes until they changed the rules. They then went back to the 660.
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« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2009, 02:00:22 PM »




Yes and no.  I did know it's modeled after a Dakar bike.  But, I didn't think they raced the liter sized version of the motor, just the 600s.  


Now days they race thumpers because of restrictions. Most of the KTM guys if not all are on the 690 this year. When KTM first raced the 950 platform, it could hardly finish a race.  Lol
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« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2009, 05:23:43 PM »

Making my list and checking it twice.  Here are the bikes I plan to test ride this year.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Misc/touringbike.jpg
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« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2009, 06:00:52 PM »

If you want to do any semi-serious dirt roads, I would remove everything with a 17" front wheel from your list. The 19" feels better than a 17" on everything unpaved short of smooth, hard-packed dirt. Not saying you can't do dirt roads with a 17", just that it's nicer with a 19". Rolls over bumps better and rolls through loose stuff (gravel, sand, etc) better.

I really notice the difference on SMR versus the Wee Strom. The SMR has better/longer suspension, but the wide tires and 17" front are more of a handful on a gravel road.
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« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2009, 08:35:02 PM »

I'm really just looking for a comfortable touring bike with hard luggage.  The big dual sports appeal to me the most for several reasons, one of which is the fact I could more easily tackle off-road conditions.  

Who knows, watch me end up w/ a Uly.  Or, I could always go the other way and get a 690 Enduro to replace the DR and pimp it out with luggage, touring screen, aftermarket seat, etc...  

« Last Edit: January 10, 2009, 08:37:27 PM by R Doug » Logged
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« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2009, 12:08:50 AM »

And I thought I was the only guy who did spreadsheets about the specs of my various dream bikes.   Lol

For what you are describing a GS does sound like the appropriate bike.  But I have to admit the KTM 990 has a much more visceral appeal to me.  I don't dare test ride one because I know I'll suddenly be in bike ho mode.  The local KTM dealer is supposed to get a 990 Adv in next month.

Have you though about the Moto Guzzi Stelvio?  They even have a TT version this year and if you're just doing dirt roads it would be fine.  I sat on one at MPH Cycles in Houston and the ergos were superb.  I'd consider trading the Breva for one if a Stelvio did well on a test ride.  

Although there are days when I have considered just having a two-bike stable of a new KLR and my Ural.
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« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2009, 08:13:16 AM »


Have you though about the Moto Guzzi Stelvio?  


Good option.  I'll need to search for the closest Guzzi dealer to my area.  


EDIT... I think I'll pass.  That has to be the ugliest Italian bike ever.  

Stelvio must be Italian for V-Strom.   Lol
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 08:48:40 AM by R Doug » Logged
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« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2009, 03:48:20 PM »

C'mon, the ugliest Guzzi is better looking the prettiest Beemer.
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« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2009, 04:17:05 PM »


C'mon, the ugliest Guzzi is better looking the prettiest Beemer.


You better hope beemer owners don't hear you, those are fight'n words.   Lol





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« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2009, 07:24:39 PM »


C'mon, the ugliest Guzzi is better looking the prettiest Beemer.


Says the man who rides a KLR and a Ural. You, sir, are no judge of "beauty"  Lol
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« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2009, 08:19:04 PM »


Heck, the Tiger is most likely off my list because of it's rear suspension


Couldn't you pick up an Ohlins shock for the price difference ?
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« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2009, 08:30:00 PM »



Says the man who rides a KLR and a Ural. You, sir, are no judge of "beauty"  Lol


Au contraire, the Ural is reknowned for its classic lines of elegant curves, full fenders, round headlight, and tasteful farkles.  The Ural gets far more positive comments than my GS ever got.

The KLR, well, um, err, it's more of a functional kind of beauty.   Razz

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« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2009, 10:04:17 PM »




Couldn't you pick up an Ohlins shock for the price difference ?


I haven't researched what aftermarket suspenders are out there for the Tiger.  That's a good idea because I plan on testing the Tiger and suspect I'll fall in love with it (1050 triple...   Inlove  )  
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« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2009, 10:44:51 PM »

Revised price of Tiger = $15,199 w/ one additional upgrade...

http://www.orientexpress.com/product_info.php?products_id=13175&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=gb

I believe this even comes w/ one of those remote dial preload adjusters.
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« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2009, 10:48:07 PM »


Revised price of Tiger = $15,199 w/ one additional upgrade...

http://www.orientexpress.com/product_info.php?products_id=13175&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=gb

I believe this even comes w/ one of those remote dial preload adjusters.


I believe this makes it a winner  Wink  Thumbsup
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« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2009, 11:20:15 PM »

Can you tell it's cold outside!?  Now it's time for the all-important test rides to work out all the intangibles!  

Updated sheet:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Misc/nerdtime.jpg
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 12:47:00 AM by R Doug » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2009, 11:26:12 AM »


Ok, say you're looking for a good touring bike to add to the garage.  Let's say you'll mostly ride country back roads and like the flexibility of a few dirt roads thrown in (300 - 400 miles per day on a long trip).



I've owned both and am currently running my second 950 Adventure into the ground, and here's my two cents;

a. I don't like to tour cross country with knobbies-if you're going to do some off-road mixed in with touring, the KTM is the bike for this as it's much easier/lighter to pick up when you drop it, and it's just plain lighter handling too.

b. BMW's have gone down into the deep-end of answering questions noone is asking, particularly for us DS guys. I can work on the carbs of my 950, and that is the most mechanically bizarre things on the bike, for me anyway. When going off-road in an unknown land keep it simple.

c. Put some pipes on a 950 and adjust the carbs to your liking. The motor is the most amazing and forgiving engine that you can grow into and get some serious fun out of.

d. A couple of years ago the answer might have been the GS, but now the aftermarket playing field for comfort bolt-ons has blown it wide open in favor of KTM. Get your self a Renazco seat, some bar risers, however you wanna farkle it.... Thumbsup

e. Chain, chain, chain. Period. No blown out final drives, wanky funked out ABS inter-linked with a hydraulic assist failures, just plain power and super-bad fun.   Thumbsup    
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« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2009, 01:42:24 PM »

I've ridden both and prefer the KTM - as long as I already have a designated street bike that is. If I could only have one I'd go with the GS. But the KTM fun-factor was much higher for me. It will be my next bike.  Bigsmile
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« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2009, 01:50:51 PM »

Quote
Au contraire, the Ural is reknowned for its classic lines of elegant curves, full fenders, round headlight, and tasteful farkles.  The Ural gets far more positive comments than my GS ever got.




Good heavens, what sort of places (Or backwater countries) are you hanging out in Mr?  Lol
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« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2009, 03:45:21 PM »

In areas filled to the brim with aesthetes and connoiseurs.   Bigsmile
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« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2009, 03:47:12 PM »


In areas filled to the brim with aesthetes and connoiseurs.   Bigsmile


rofl - Bend, OR??? Yeah, keep on kidding yourself, mister  Bigok
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« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2009, 07:43:32 PM »

Hey, we ain't West Prineville, anymore.   Lol

Dang uppity Bay Area types.   Razz
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« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2009, 02:50:07 PM »

R Doug,

Something for you to ponder :

Sell the Super Duke, buy a 990 Adventure, install 19"/17" wheel combo and a good seat. Two bikes in one !

Thumbsup
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« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2009, 04:57:50 PM »


R Doug,

Something for you to ponder :

Sell the Super Duke

Thumbsup


 To quote my grandson, "That's just crazy talk!!"  Crazy
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« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2009, 07:27:54 PM »


R Doug,

Something for you to ponder :

Sell the Super Duke, buy a 990 Adventure, install 19"/17" wheel combo and a good seat. Two bikes in one !

Thumbsup


This coming from an appearant bike whore*.    Lol  




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« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2009, 11:58:54 AM »




This coming from an appearant bike whore*.    Lol  




*  Motorcycles: 06 KTM 950 Adventure S, 1971 BMW R75/5 cafe', 1974 R90/6 cafe', 1969 Honda 450DOHC cafe', 1972 Suzuki GT750, 1965 Sears Gilera


I prefer "bike slut".      Lol

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« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2009, 10:34:58 PM »

Doug you have a dilemma..........

The decision could be made easy if KTM just brought this in to the US



Just add hard bags.

DK
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« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2009, 10:51:22 PM »


Doug you have a dilemma..........

The decision could be made easy if KTM just brought this in to the US

Just add hard bags.

DK


I'm keeping a lookout for this to be released in the US.   Bigok
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« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2009, 06:51:33 AM »

Yeah - me too.
It would fit the bill perfectly - upright position, 5 gal tank, Hard bag-ability (hopefully), lighter weight than some current Adv type bikes.
Right now I am looking at Tiger, Multistrada or V-strom - for pretty much street use with maybe the occasional fire road exploring.
Looking at buying new sometime later this year, so hopefully KTM will bring tis bike in.
Good luck with your purchasing decision.

DK
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« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2009, 08:30:54 PM »


Can you tell it's cold outside!?  Now it's time for the all-important test rides to work out all the intangibles!  

Updated sheet:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Misc/nerdtime.jpg


The Uly/Tiger/Multistrada should really score better on bad pavement and maintained dirt roads.  C'mon, you have them rated the same as a VFR and F800ST.  The Uly/Tiger/Multi all have extra suspension length that rougher roads are noticeably better than with a sport-touring bike.  Not only the suspension, but you can stand on the pegs for extra control.  Don't pan those bikes just because they have 17" wheels.  Fire roads aren't a problem.

Also, the Tiger rear Showa may be adequate for you, especially if you are lighter weight yourself.  I don't think it's fair to jack the Tiger's price - might as well figure Ohlins on some of the others, too.  Also you can get more than 203 miles to a tank if you take it easy.  SW-Motech racks and TraX on Tiger would be much better than OEM.  SW-Motech also makes a nice Tiger skid plate if you want extra protection, FYI.
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« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2009, 09:20:50 PM »

Rincewind, the Tiger is really at the top of the list in my head right now.  And, I do have it rated better than the VFR on maintained dirt roads.  The F800ST is mis-rated by mistake. Regardless of the bike I get, if it has street-only tires on it, I do not plan on taking it off-road intentionally no matter the front wheel size.

Regarding the Ohlins on the Tiger, I put it in there for pricing because I've read I may need it.  I've not read anything about potential suspension upgrades needed for any of the other bikes.  It's more for contingency if I choose to get the upgraded rear suspension.  

Finally, I agree with you on the SW Motec Trax bags.  I like the looks of them. Whether I get them or the factory is yet to be determined.  Of all the luggage options for all the bikes, I pretty much priced the most likely choice for me.  

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Misc/trax.jpg
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« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2009, 09:31:11 PM »

Love that Tiger !  Inlove
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« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2009, 10:32:12 AM »


Rincewind, the Tiger is really at the top of the list in my head right now.  And, I do have it rated better than the VFR on maintained dirt roads.  The F800ST is mis-rated by mistake.


Sorry, I guess I didn't read your chart quite right.  Well you can tell I'm always happy to talk about my Tiger.  I'm still on the stock rear Showa stock, though it will need to be rebuilt/replaced before too much longer from typical wear.  For me, I don't mind at all taking my Tiger off of a paved surface, but too rough and it is a challenge.  I have also dinged my front rim on a nasty pothole, but that could happen with most any bike.

Just last night I was out doing some courier service on the Tiger.  I stopped at a Buell dealer along the way to see the new Buell CR, which I quite liked, and I ended up chatting away with a Uly owner.  He was quite adamant that his Uly with replaced ECU and exhaust could take on a stock Tiger like mine.  He said he's got it pretty smoothed out with a higher redline, too.  Those Uly's have a lot going for them.  

And just to say, I disagree about the Stelvio being an ugly bike, I think it has a lot of utilitarian-charm.  If I was in the market, it would be near the top of my list to check out.
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« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2009, 06:13:34 PM »


And just to say, I disagree about the Stelvio being an ugly bike, I think it has a lot of utilitarian-charm.  If I was in the market, it would be near the top of my list to check out.


Based on that remark, may you live long and prosper!  

I test rode a Tiger at the Eugene dealer last summer and had to quickly run away when we finished our 15-mile loop that had a nice combo of tight twisties, sweeper, and generic highway.  That triple is addicting; nice blend of torque, power, and yowza! that had me grinning so hard it hurt.  With the stock hardbags it looked like an excellent sport tourer.  Really comfy ergos for my 6'1" self.   Thumbsup
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« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2009, 10:56:18 PM »

I'm thinking the Stelvio may win me over in person after seeing it.  I know the sound will instantly win me over.  Hands down, Guzzi motors rock!

But, I don't see how I can go wrong w/ a 1050 triple.  Drool  
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« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2009, 12:34:08 AM »

Yep, the Stelvio is fairly hideous in most pics I've seen, but when I saw one in person I was amazed.  The front is still ugly in a V-Strom like way, but the rest of the bike is gorgeous.  And even the front grows on you.

But then so does fungus.   Crazy
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« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2009, 11:43:05 AM »

I was really surprised how good the Stelvio looked in person.  Killer in black.
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« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2009, 05:14:39 PM »

Haven't seen a Stelvio in person yet.
When I was in Atlanta - none of the dealers had gotten one in yet and now that I am home in MD, the one local Guzzi dealer said that he isn't getting one in for the floor - only for those who order one.
No Guzzi at the IMS in DC, so I guess that I will have to wait to see one.
I am going to look at the Tiger again at the show in Balt and hopefully test ride one this spring.
Looking at the Multi and also the V-Strom (I like the way it looks), but the 19" front wheel kinda throws me off.
Hopefully KTM gets the hint and doesn't wait too long to bring in the SMT.

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« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2009, 10:09:36 PM »

I hope to see the new Guzzi this weekend in Cleveland at the bike show.   Bigok
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« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2009, 12:27:42 AM »

Take pics for us; and BTW if there are any Cali Vintages on the floor snap a pic of that one, too.  Love the lines of that Guzzi cruiser.  With any luck they'll have the Stelvio TT as well as the regular Stelvio.

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« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2009, 11:34:59 AM »


I cannot bring myself to purchasing a V-Strom.   I'm sorry,...    Lol  

...I love how the 990 Adv. looks just like a Dakar bike!  

Plus, I know I'm getting top shelf suspension with the BMW and KTM.  


Doug - don't be sorry - get the Adventure.

You are so lucky to have a good KTM dealer near you.  Take advantage of it.

I would have bought the Adventure myself, instead of my WEE.  I used your spreadsheet to weight the Wee, and the Wee rates highly.  But numbers don't measure SOUL.  The Wee's fugly, and no one ever gets excited over it when I pull up to a stop.  The Wee is very capable, although it wallows a little when you're carrying a load, specially up near a full pound.  My local dealer wouldn't even consider ordering an Adventure for me on a potential buy without a substantial non-refundable deposit.  That was a deal-breaker in my book.  The Adventure series is very popular in Europe - not that it matters, but it says something to me - and it has a LOOK about it.
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« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2009, 08:02:27 PM »

I want you to know that I have nothing but R-E-S-P-E-C-T for the Strom.  It's just not for me.  
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« Reply #75 on: January 28, 2009, 10:57:45 PM »

Love my Wee - it's good for me - Different Strokes For Different Folks.
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« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2009, 09:55:57 AM »




Did the 990 you rode have a surging FI?  I really wanted to love the 990 but the Adventure that I demoed at the bike show had maybe the worst surging FI that I have ever experienced on a constant throttle.  When I mentioned it to the ride leader, he said they all do that.
Ruined the bike for me.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/Desmolicious/KTM990.jpg


You and I ride the same bike at the Long Beach show and when I got off I was very disappointed due to the surging. I am sure there are ways to fix it but it left me wodering if we had a bad bike or not or if this is just the way they ship them?  Crazy
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« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2009, 04:37:31 PM »

Well, I was able to place my rump on most of the bikes on my list.  

Some thoughts after spending some QT w/ these bikes...


Versys:  Great bike, just a little small for what I want to use it for

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1213.jpg


KTM:  Still on the list and I'm happy to report I feel very comfortable on it with standard (non-lowered) seat.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1203.jpg


1200GS:  Very impressed with this after playing around with it.  Even with the stardared chassis (with seat in lower position), I feel very comfortable on this bike.  Further I never thought I would like BMW's plastic hard bags.  But, after playing around with them, they're SLICK!  They are easy to get on and off and I LOVE the expandable slide feature.  I had no idea you could adjust the size.  Gotta love them Germans.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1193.jpg

800GS:  I must test ride this.  I was very impressed with it in person.  It's more simplistic than the 1200GS.  I'm also surpised on how comfortable it feels.  The one thing that stands out as a miss on this is the center stand.  The extended "arms" on the bottom looks like hell with the stand up showing everyone the scratches as it points in the air beside each side of the swingarm.  

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1194.jpg


Moto Guzzi:  So, here it is.  I have to admit, it's better looking in person.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1196.jpg

Those front lights could have been designed to look more ascetically pleasing, IMHO.  But, I'm sure they'll light the way!  

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1197.jpg

How do I look on it!?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1198.jpg



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« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2009, 11:42:33 PM »




You and I ride the same bike at the Long Beach show and when I got off I was very disappointed due to the surging. I am sure there are ways to fix it but it left me wodering if we had a bad bike or not or if this is just the way they ship them?  Crazy


The ride leader said they all do that and if I thought it was bad to not try the SuperDuke!  Killed the desire I had for the bike.  Sooo disappointed.  But really really glad I got the opportunity to ride it before having put down my own cash.
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« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2009, 10:44:45 PM »

Nice to see you made in to a show Doug.  That Stelvio looks huge compared to the other bikes.  Tough group of bikes to decide on just one!
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« Reply #80 on: February 01, 2009, 10:47:53 PM »

Once again, Triumph wasn't at the show (not that I was expecting them).  I'll test ride a Tiger over this season even if it means trading bikes w/ you for a while.   Bigok


Now, do you want the DR or the Super Duke?   Lol
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« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2009, 10:57:24 PM »

Doug,

Just an FYI on the OEM GS Vario Cases:  Don't drop the bike.  The mechanism to expand the cases is really slick, yes.  But if you drop the bike it often jams the case mechanism and it won't expand.  That's the single biggest reason why many owners sell off the factory luggage and get something more substantial (Caribou's, Touratechs, Jesse's, Micatechs, etc.).

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« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2009, 11:00:27 PM »

Good to know.  I priced out the Touratechs in my spreadsheet.  

When you say people sell their factory luggage, does the bike come w/ luggage?  
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« Reply #83 on: February 02, 2009, 12:50:18 AM »




The ride leader said they all do that and if I thought it was bad to not try the SuperDuke!  Killed the desire I had for the bike.  Sooo disappointed.  But really really glad I got the opportunity to ride it before having put down my own cash.


I can't remember if I posted about this. There was a technical service bulletin issued by KTM for the FI over a year ago. They do not all surge however the FI could be smoother.
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« Reply #84 on: February 02, 2009, 07:17:29 AM »


Once again, Triumph wasn't at the show (not that I was expecting them).  I'll test ride a Tiger over this season even if it means trading bikes w/ you for a while.   Bigok


Now, do you want the DR or the Super Duke?   Lol


Super Duke!  If you can't get a Tiger ride before the 09 Meet and East, I will try to hook you up.   Bigsmile
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« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2009, 10:52:47 AM »


How do I look on it!?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c132/doog71/Motorcycle%20Rides/2009/2009%20Bike%20Show/DSCN1198.jpg


Like a natural.  Purchase one immediately.   Thumbsup

Thanks for the pics.
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« Reply #86 on: February 02, 2009, 07:38:57 PM »




Like a natural.  Purchase one immediately.   Thumbsup

Thanks for the pics.


I think I'm going to save it for you.  You deserve it more than me.   Bigok


Here are some additional images from the show...

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,35643.msg815604.html#msg815604

« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 07:46:23 PM by R Doug » Logged
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« Reply #87 on: February 02, 2009, 09:14:07 PM »


Good to know.  I priced out the Touratechs in my spreadsheet.  

When you say people sell their factory luggage, does the bike come w/ luggage?  


No.  I've got a set of BMW side cases and mounts in excellent condition that I no longer need. I went with Jesse's since I ride off-road.
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« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2009, 09:48:09 PM »




No.  I've got a set of BMW side cases and mounts in excellent condition that I no longer need. I went with Jesse's since I ride off-road.


Thanks for answering my question.  Are your side bags for sale?
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« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2009, 10:29:20 PM »




Thanks for answering my question.  Are your side bags for sale?

Yes.
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« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2009, 10:32:43 PM »



Yes.


You're a man of few words, aren't you?   Lol
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« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2009, 03:32:57 PM »



You're a man of few words, aren't you?   Lol


Washington hostess turns to President Coolidge, known as "Silent Cal," at a dinner party and pipes up with "Oh, Mr. Coolidge, I have bet my friends I can make you say three words tonight."

"You lose," was his reply.
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« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2009, 08:07:55 PM »

I finally test rode both bikes today back-to-back.  I was able to do a 20 mile loop on each with a combination of urban traffic, country roads, and a few miles of interstate to check wind comfort.  

YMMV, but here are my conclusions...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


First up was the BMW 1200GS.  The dealer had a used 2007 in stock with 5,500 miles on it.  

1)  The motor was much better than I thought it would be for me.  I had myself convinced it would feel a little too lethargic for me like a long stroke HD mill.  It did not and I was able to blip the throttle between quick downshifts w/ no delay from the motor.  And, being a boxster, it had great pull from the bottom and it didn't run out of breath like I thought it would on the top end.  It's a motor that I could see myself with all day long and for a long time.  It matches the bike perfectly.

2)  The ergos were VERY COMFORTABLE on the big GS.  It's the most comfortable bike I’ve ridden.  The wind protection was good too while on the interstate (which the bike will rarely see).  The only thing I didn't like about the ergos were the bars are a bit wider than I care to reach and the seating position is nearly vertical.

3)   After reading reports about numb steering input, I could see where people think that.  Yes, compared to a proper sportbike, the steering is more vague.  But, the bike feels planted and handles well when tossed into a corner.  Unlike my VFR, the front wheel does continue to understeer when pushed through a corner.  I could see how this fairly large bike could make a rider feel confident in twisties or sweepers.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After returning back to the dealer, I jumped on the KTM 990 Adventure and repeated the same 20 mile loop.  The 990 Adventure is a left over 2008 model with (now) 30 miles on it.  Basically, it’s a new bike w/o the spider web paint scheme and a slightly smaller displacement compared to a 2009.

1)   I quickly decided that there is no better motor for me than an LC8.  Accelerating on the main road from the dealer lot, the LC8 put the same quirky smile on my face as is does for me while I ride the Super Duke.  Yes, without a smooth throttle hand, the FI can be a bit on/off feeling on this bike versus the carburetor-like FI of the Beemer.  But, the power, it's delivery, and sound are way too intoxicating.  I can quickly overlook the KTM’s FI.  Plus, I personally don't have an issue with the KTM's FI.

2)   The ergos on the KayToM are much better than I expected.  The seat is a little less comfortable than the BMW, but it’s equally as comfortable as the one on my Super Duke.  And I can go all day on the Super Duke without a complaint.  The foot to peg felt very similar to the Beemer as well as the wind protection.  The most noticeable difference to me between the two is the reach to the bars.  The KTM felt more compact and it had more of a sporty seating position which I prefer.  But, I don’t have a material issue with the seating position of the BMW.  I could see myself on either bike all day for multiple days.  

3)   Unlike the plush feel of the BMW while cornering, the KTM has a quicker steering input and it gives you very positive feedback in the bars.  This, however, does not come without a compromise.  I did find the front end of the KTM to be quite twitchy at times.  A steering stabilizer would be nice for on-road use.  Handling wise, there is no comparison.  The KTM feels great when pushed into and all the way through a corner.  For me, the more feedback, the better.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From a pure rideability standpoint, the KTM was better for me than the BMW.  Quite honestly, I was surprised.  Immediately after my 20 miles on the BMW, I told my wife and a friend James (RideWV), “It’s going to take a lot from the KTM to impress me after riding this GS.”  

The KTM did not disappoint.  The bottom line for me is the GS's motor and handling was better than I thought and the KTM's comfort was better than expected.  

The next consideration for me is price.  If I can find a deal on a leftover KTM, that would put the icing on the cake.  The nice thing about the BMW is there are plenty of “barley” used GSs out there at really good prices.  Once the Honda VFR sells, I’ll start looking seriously and will hope the wife is still be on board w/ all it.   Lol  
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« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2009, 10:38:31 PM »

Well that VFR didn't last long.  Bigsmile
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« Reply #94 on: July 26, 2009, 05:40:21 AM »


Well that VFR didn't last long.  Bigsmile


I got such a sweetheart deal on the VFR, it's easy to let it go.  It's not the touring bike for me.  
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« Reply #95 on: July 26, 2009, 02:23:33 PM »




I got such a sweetheart deal on the VFR, it's easy to let it go.  It's not the touring bike for me.  

holy kwap  EEK!

I'm penciling you in to be the first VFX-1200 owner on ST.N  Bigsmile

just kidding. I'm jealous of guys that get a new bike every year  Smile
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« Reply #96 on: July 26, 2009, 03:00:41 PM »



holy kwap  EEK!

I'm penciling you in to be the first VFX-1200 owner on ST.N  Bigsmile

just kidding. I'm jealous of guys that get a new bike every year  Smile


Every year?  I've owned the Honda since March of 2009!  It's been 4 months.   Lol
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« Reply #97 on: July 26, 2009, 06:12:37 PM »


 
Quote
[Every year?  I've owned the Honda since March of 2009!  It's been 4 months.   /quote]

 Wow, I envy you even more  Bigok
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« Reply #98 on: July 26, 2009, 06:21:07 PM »




I got such a sweetheart deal on the VFR, it's easy to let it go.  It's not the touring bike for me.  


Can you comment why? I'm just curious, not because I'm a Honda fanboy but because I have both a 990 and VFR and I think the VFR is great for touring. Of course, the 990 is fun too...
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« Reply #99 on: July 26, 2009, 07:27:01 PM »

I purchased the VFR knowing I wouldn't have it long (1 year or less).  For the price I'm selling the luggage and the bike, I'll lose $300 + the cost I paid for a tire.  For me, it's like I rented the bike.  I've been very lucky to acquire bikes at the right price, take very good care of them, then sell them for a fair price and not lose a lot.  

Regarding why the VFR isn't a keeper for me, the bottom line is I really prefer the seating position of bikes like the Multi, Uly, 990 Adventure, etc...  I cannot find "all day" comfort on sport-touring and some liter bikes.  I was more comfortable on my Daytona 675 than the VFR because the seat to bars was much better for me.  The VFR, like my older ST3, has too far of a reach for me  Yes, I know I can get Helibars, but I know what I want.   For example, I knew the Super Duke was for me and after two years, it still is.  After riding the 990 Adventure and GS yesterday, I know they are the perfect touring bike for me.  

My goal for the last 18 months has been to sort out which touring bike I want, get it, and keep it for a long time.  I'll always have a Super Duke (or something similar) in the garage to go with a touring bike.  And with a 990 Adv or GS,  I can still explore unpaved roads as I mile much up the tarmac across the US and Canada.   Bigok

If I could have 5 bikes, I would.  But the truth of it is, I can handle 2-3 and that's it.  I'd rather have two really good bikes than a bunch of specialty bikes that are mediocre.  
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« Reply #100 on: July 26, 2009, 08:53:11 PM »


I purchased the VFR knowing I wouldn't have it long (1 year or less).  For the price I'm selling the luggage and the bike, I'll lose $300 + the cost I paid for a tire.  For me, it's like I rented the bike.  I've been very lucky to acquire bikes at the right price, take very good care of them, then sell them for a fair price and not lose a lot.  

Regarding why the VFR isn't a keeper for me, the bottom line is I really prefer the seating position of bikes like the Multi, Uly, 990 Adventure, etc...  I cannot find "all day" comfort on sport-touring and some liter bikes.  I was more comfortable on my Daytona 675 than the VFR because the seat to bars was much better for me.  The VFR, like my older ST3, has too far of a reach for me  Yes, I know I can get Helibars, but I know what I want.   For example, I knew the Super Duke was for me and after two years, it still is.  After riding the 990 Adventure and GS yesterday, I know they are the perfect touring bike for me.  

My goal for the last 18 months has been to sort out which touring bike I want, get it, and keep it for a long time.  I'll always have a Super Duke (or something similar) in the garage to go with a touring bike.  And with a 990 Adv or GS,  I can still explore unpaved roads as I mile much up the tarmac across the US and Canada.   Bigok

If I could have 5 bikes, I would.  But the truth of it is, I can handle 2-3 and that's it.  I'd rather have two really good bikes than a bunch of specialty bikes that are mediocre.  


Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know what you mean. I'll always have an Adventure or something like it. I also like the riding position and the bike handles very well.

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« Reply #101 on: July 26, 2009, 09:00:12 PM »

I should clarify that the VFR is far from mediocre.  It's a great bike.  The V4, luggage capacity, and build quality are great.  I can see why it's a well sought out bike.  
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« Reply #102 on: July 27, 2009, 10:58:26 AM »

It's intresting that many of us have discovered once you have had an adventure bike, big trailie, whatever you want to call 'em, the stable will always include one.  

And now, RDoug, it's time for you to dip a toe into the sidecar world...   Bigsmile
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« Reply #103 on: July 27, 2009, 11:06:08 AM »

Nice reviews there, Doug.  I look forward to seeing which way you decide to go.   Bigok

Too bad the Tiger is out of the running, I still think you should test one anyway.  couch
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« Reply #104 on: July 27, 2009, 11:06:31 AM »

Having ridden both, I agree very much with your review Doug. I would have to say that  I wouldn't really want either as an "only" bike, but I think I would take the BMW for that if I had to. The KTM is hands down my choice for a second bike. I found it much more exhilarating to ride, and it had much better off-road prowess, yet it's surprisingly comfortable.
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« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2009, 12:13:38 PM »


And now, RDoug, it's time for you to dip a toe into the sidecar world...   Bigsmile


Once you go hack, you never go back?   Lol


Too bad the Tiger is out of the running, I still think you should test one anyway.  couch


I like the Tiger, but a long distance relationship to my dealer kills me.  The BMW GS would be serviced at the same dealer, but I would feel comfortable doing my valve adjustments on the GS.   Thumbsup




Having ridden both, I agree very much with your review Doug. I would have to say that  I wouldn't really want either as an "only" bike, but I think I would take the BMW for that if I had to. The KTM is hands down my choice for a second bike. I found it much more exhilarating to ride, and it had much better off-road prowess, yet it's surprisingly comfortable.


If I had to pick one of the two as my only bike, I too would lean towards the BMW.  And describing the KTM as more exhilarating to ride pretty much nails it.  That's what makes it a win for me.  Though the comfort on the KTM isn't quite as good as the BMW, it still provides more comfort than I need.  
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« Reply #106 on: July 27, 2009, 03:36:54 PM »

I had an '04 GS and did a demo on a KTM 990 Adv.  

In terms of the classic "if only one" dilemma, I sorted it out this way:  if truly 85-95% of my touring is going to be on pavement, I'd take the GS.  The thing is an absolute mileage eater.  If I was going to take the bike off road to any degree, then it's KTM as the chosen mount.



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« Reply #107 on: July 27, 2009, 03:52:23 PM »


I had an '04 GS and did a demo on a KTM 990 Adv.  

In terms of the classic "if only one" dilemma, I sorted it out this way:  if truly 85-95% of my touring is going to be on pavement, I'd take the GS.  The thing is an absolute mileage eater.  If I was going to take the bike off road to any degree, then it's KTM as the chosen mount.






But you ride a Guzzi, so that instantly disqualifies your opinion as counting for something.  Shrug
















 Razz Lol
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« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2009, 10:44:39 AM »

No, I get double points for impeccable motorcycle connoisseurship.   Razz






























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« Reply #109 on: July 28, 2009, 11:18:34 AM »


No, I get double points for impeccable motorcycle connoisseurship.   Razz


 Lol

If I ever make it out to Orygun, first one's on me. Beerchug

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« Reply #110 on: November 02, 2010, 11:10:27 AM »

Brining this one back from the dead.  I find myself in the same dilemma:  The 1200GSA vs a 990 Adventure (or, perhaps the 950 SE if i could do something about the on-road prowess of the bike).  Any fresh opinions??  Thanks.
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« Reply #111 on: November 02, 2010, 11:50:57 AM »

Well, the 950 SE (a badass bike IMO) is basically my 950 SMR with 18/21 wheels and a high exhaust. I'm pretty sure that a number of people have added 17" wheels or 17/19 wheels for the street days and use the 18/21 for dirtier adventures. I bet an SE with 17/19 wheels and Tourances would make a fine street bike that is happy enough on dirt roads. Keep TKC80s on the stock wheels for dirt. Biggest issue with my SMR on the street is tank range. I'm good from about 120 miles until the light comes on, then another 25-30 until dry. It hasn't been a problem, but I do have to keep in mind where the gas stops are.
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« Reply #112 on: November 02, 2010, 12:03:50 PM »

After about 10,000 miles on my KTM the word I would use to describe the bike is versatile. I have ridden a fair bit of offroad and tons of twisty's this summer since I got it.  It came with TKC rear and a Karoo front and they worked great offroad. I replaced those with a Mefo Super Explorer rear and a Heindenau front.  These tires make the bike much smoother on the pavement and work very well offroad. The suspension - White Power - is great and dialed for touring glides over rough roads and potholes. Clicked in for offroad it handles the roughest road with no complaints and zero bottoming.

I really enjoyed my touring this summer. The Gobi bakes hold tons of gear and the relaxed riding position puts you up high with great visibility and comfort. I get about 180  miles to reserve during spirited riding. The bike is easy to ride fast and the engine is a dream with gobs of torque and shifts smoothly. Twisty roads you just roll on and roll off the throttle. The bike has seen 120 mph via GPS and it is stable.

I had a Triumph Sprint for touring and a KLR for dual sport and this bike is more fun than either of those to ride and much more capable than a KLR offroad.  Yes it is bigger but carries the weight low thanks to the fuel tanks.

Then there is the sound  ... omg ... if I am shifting quickly on a winding road I swear it sounds a bit like the Mustang in Bullitt ...  Lol  I have Wings exhaust and the engine sounds just put a grin on your face.

Can you tell I really, really love this bike?  

I have not riden a GS but I imagine it is even more comfortable on road.  For where I live though, this is the perfect bike.  Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup

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« Reply #113 on: November 02, 2010, 10:32:02 PM »

It's not so much a question of how to make the 990 more road worthy but how to make the 1200 more of a dirt going machine.

 couch
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« Reply #114 on: November 03, 2010, 07:11:57 AM »

I find the Adventure to be a very capable bike.  With my Renazco seat, touring comfort is WAY up.  The stock GS seat is much better and the GS is an overall smoother on-road touring bike.  The Adventure is a bit "edgier."  But, right now, I like edgier.  

The Adventure's bars are closer together.  I find that more comfortable for my shorter span (5' 8").

Here are some shots stolen from another website showing the versatility of this bike.



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« Reply #115 on: November 06, 2010, 09:56:14 AM »


I find the Adventure to be a very capable bike.  






Great pic.  I dragged my Gobi bag this summer as well.  That is not an easy thing to do but gives some idea of the cornering ability of the Adventure.  What tires are those in the dirt pic?  They look like the new Conti Trail Attacks??
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« Reply #116 on: November 06, 2010, 10:11:15 AM »




Great pic.  I dragged my Gobi bag this summer as well.  That is not an easy thing to do but gives some idea of the cornering ability of the Adventure.  What tires are those in the dirt pic?  They look like the new Conti Trail Attacks??


Both images are from the same guy who was writing about the versatility of the stock Scorps.  It's just difficult to pick up on the Scrop's tread pattern in the hill climb because the tire is spinning.  

Like you, I too have dragged my Gobis in a corner and I really felt like the bike was well over at that point.  I had the Conti Trail Attacks on at the time and WOW do those tires work well for this bike on the paved bits!   Inlove
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« Reply #117 on: November 30, 2010, 05:01:02 PM »

Thanks guys.  Sent the $ off for a 950 Super Enduro.  Let the modifications begin.
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« Reply #118 on: November 30, 2010, 07:31:00 PM »


Thanks guys.  Sent the $ off for a 950 Super Enduro.  Let the modifications begin.


What made you decide on the Super Enduro over the Adventure?
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« Reply #119 on: November 30, 2010, 07:56:27 PM »




What made you decide on the Super Enduro over the Adventure?


Cost and off-road prowess.  The cost difference is substantial between a SE and a 990R.  To make the 990R more SE-like would have been pricey and difficult.  To make the SE more ADV-like will be easier and cheaper in the end.  I also didn't want to constantly worry about damaging expensive plastic bits found on the ADV when off-road (let's face it, I crash..alot (if you're not crashing, you're not trying hard enough)).  I'm sacrificing the ADV's/GS's on-road comforts, but a GS really can't do what I'll likely ask of it (an ADV could, in large part, however).  So in the end, I'm going to have a Super Enduro and I'll make it more GS/ADV-like with some upgrades like tank, a 690 windscreen, seat mod, and subframe mod so I can carry some gear.  I was dead set on going with alumn panniers because of the carry capacity and the aesthetic, but now I've decided to go with the Giant Loop system (at 50L it can't carry as much as a pair of 33L panniers, but it can take off-road mishaps much better).  The bike I bought has Akras on it, so not having to shell out for that mod at least.  When all said and done, I ought to have a bike I can ride to San Diego from Oregon, swap tires, and tour the back country of Baja (of course, having a spare tire strapped to the bike as these things have a healthy appetite for rear tires).

As far as not getting a GS, besides the obvious, after my last BMW (my 3rd), I said never again.  I freak'n love orange!
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« Reply #120 on: November 30, 2010, 08:23:23 PM »

Congrats on the SE  Bigok  Sounds like you have an excellent plan to tailor that bike to your needs. Be great to see some pics when you finally have it set up.  Welcome to the KTM 9xx engine addiction !!

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« Reply #121 on: December 05, 2010, 11:20:02 AM »




Cost and off-road prowess.  

To make the SE more ADV-like will be easier and cheaper in the end.  I also didn't want to constantly worry about damaging expensive plastic bits found on the ADV when off-road (let's face it, I crash..alot (if you're not crashing, you're not trying hard enough)).


I've upgraded my SE for the same reasons.  Since the picture was taken I've added a Renazco seat. The bike is all-day comfortable now and still retains great off-road capability.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r291/billzbucket/misc/IMG_0774.jpg
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« Reply #122 on: December 05, 2010, 02:27:24 PM »

Nice setup.

The Renazco product is amazing.  How do you like yours?
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« Reply #123 on: December 07, 2010, 09:00:38 PM »


Nice setup.

The Renazco product is amazing.  How do you like yours?


I rarely say this about any product: It's even better than I expected.

Now I know why people rave about them.
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« Reply #124 on: December 08, 2010, 11:13:07 AM »




I rarely say this about any product: It's even better than I expected.

Now I know why people rave about them.


I have one on the 950 SM. Absolutely bloody fantastic. I'm a bit spoiled in that I could also add a couple of inches of height, but /wow/.

Worth the investment.
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