Harley Leading the Way!

[Geoff]

You might already know this but...

Harley is once again leading the pack in sales, salesmanship, and customer satisfaction.

According to the Motorcycle Industry Council, Harley-Davidson lead the way by capturing more then 30% of the 1.1 million new units sold for all brands in 2007 (2008 figures are not yet available).

In addition, stats collected by groups like Pied Piper Management Company based out of Pacific Grove, California determined Harley-Davidson made their customers more happy than any other brand of motorcycle dealer. The top five in order were Harley, Victory, Ducati, Buell, and BMW. Honda was a distant twelfth.

A spokesperson from the Nielson Media Research group was asked about those findings. “Well..." he said, "based on those figures, more people would rather own a Harley then any other single brand…”

[Geoff]

If Harley is on top the others must be real bad.  

[Playinthestreet]

They know their customers and how to satisfy them.  

[st ryder]

...In addition, stats collected by groups like Pied Piper Management Company based out of Pacific Grove, California determined Harley-Davidson made their customers more happy than any other brand of motorcycle dealer. The top five in order were Harley, Victory, Ducati, Buell, and BMW. Honda was a distant twelfth...

I refer to this as the "ownership experience", that intangible thing that people who don't own any of the bikes named above can't understand, yet continuously bash with the myths of "reliability" and "bang for buck"; apparently features that have less value in the satisfaction quotient than their proponents would contend , well, according to the above survey anyways.    

[surfsup]

harley dealer support is top notch - and that being vitually anywhere you go. no it's not free - but it really is worth the price.

when i decided to get back into sport toruing last year, one of my primary requirements was to select a proven and dependable bike (the FJR) - because i knew - regardless of brand - any bike but harley would be a PITA to support.

as much as i like HD - the trade off is - harleys will never feed the need for "responsiveness" that is core to the ST rider's soul.

 

[Bounce]

The telling part is where BMW placed in spite of their recent years of product failures and unit pricing.

[Geoff]

The telling part is where BMW placed in spite of their recent years of product failures and unit pricing.

BMW has many good dealers.

[atadaskew]

The telling part is where BMW placed in spite of their recent years of product failures and unit pricing.

No, the telling part was:

Honda was a distant twelfth

[st ryder]

...as much as i like HD - the trade off is - harleys will never feed the need for "responsiveness" that is core to the ST rider's soul.

The 1125R has a lot of potential in that area, once they sort out the looks of the side "pod" fairings, and with the purchase of MVAgusta, I look forward to HD badged Italian exotica at a mass produced price, given the number of dealerships in the world where they can place higher end products.

The new touring "family" of HD bikes has really stepped up the handling features with new frames, and certainly the TC96 has a lot of great sounding grunt. The Dyna line handles pretty sweet too, and one can slap on some screens and bags very easily. FJR's? No, certainly not, but, having owned both, a FJR and a Dyna, seriously, give me the Dyna. Not saying the FJR's not a great bike, it is.   Too great in fact.   I just about lost my license with my 2003 beast, because one needs to really wick it up to get any excitement from the ride. With the Dyna, it felt like I was doing the ton at 50.   No tickets in 2.5 years of ownership. With my ST3, only 1 ticket in four years of ownership. With the FJR, 5 pull overs and 3 tickets in 7 months.   Can't tour without a license, or money.  

[st ryder]

No, the telling part was:

Doh, I didn't want to say that directly...

[surfsup]

The 1125R has a lot of potential in that area, once they sort out the looks of the side "pod" fairings, and with the purchase of MVAgusta, I look forward to HD badged Italian exotica at a mass produced price, given the number of dealerships in the world where they can place higher end products.

The new touring "family" of HD bikes has really stepped up the handling features with new frames, and certainly the TC96 has a lot of great sounding grunt. The Dyna line handles pretty sweet too, and one can slap on some screens and bags very easily. FJR's? No, certainly not, but, having owned both, a FJR and a Dyna, seriously, give me the Dyna. Not saying the FJR's not a great bike, it is.   Too great in fact.   I just about lost my license with my 2003 beast, because one needs to really wick it up to get any excitement from the ride. With the Dyna, it felt like I was doing the ton at 50.   No tickets in 2.5 years of ownership. With my ST3, only 1 ticket in four years of ownership. With the FJR, 5 pull overs and 3 tickets in 7 months.   Can't tour without a license, or money.  

i've been full circle in my life - twice - within your discussion and will probably go full circle again. it's tit for tat. the responsiveness of the FJR (as was my concours) was/is more like an extension of my thought process (think stop/ accel/ lean/ etc - and it happens) - whereas on all of my HDs - i was a willing recipient of their slow comfortable torquey design. all good and fulfilling stuff. however since i knew my next and final HD will most likely be a dressed out road glide - i figured i'd go ahead and sell the FLHR at 30k, get an ST now, then see about a new FLTRI somewhere around 2010???

life is so good here in the USA.

 

[Baz]

Was this survey a worldwide survey or a USA survey?

[rauchman]

The survey doesn't surprise me in the least.  Any HD dealer that I've been to is more of a motorcycle boutique.  Every one is friendly, the place looks nice and people more or less know their product (not talking Buell here, but at least every HD dealership that sells Buell that I've been to, will have at least one knowledgeable Buell person).  And................................. they give test rides.

There is no dealer of the big 4 Japanese brands that I know of in my neck of the woods that offers test rides.  It's also rare that dealers of the Big 4 have salespeople that really know the bikes.  I usually wind up educating the salespeople.  They also have a dingy feel.  At least the ones near me.  I always have to mentally prepare myself when walking into a Big 4 dealer.  It is usually an experience that is just short of sleazy.  Whereas with an HD dealership, you would expect it to be a skanky experience, but IMHO, it's way more of a pleasant experience.

Sleazy - Skanky...... I guess give me Skanky!!!

[atadaskew]

I can't even sit on the bikes at my local Japanese dealers.  Not that they don't let me per se, but they pack them in so tight there's no room between them.  Really does not make the experience welcoming.
At all the Harley shops they display them like they care with no 'do not sit' signs on any bikes.

[st ryder]

The survey doesn't surprise me in the least.  Any HD dealer that I've been to is more of a motorcycle boutique.  Every one is friendly, the place looks nice and people more or less know their product (not talking Buell here, but at least every HD dealership that sells Buell that I've been to, will have at least one knowledgeable Buell person).  And................................. they give test rides.

There is no dealer of the big 4 Japanese brands that I know of in my neck of the woods that offers test rides.  It's also rare that dealers of the Big 4 have salespeople that really know the bikes.  I usually wind up educating the salespeople.  They also have a dingy feel.  At least the ones near me.  I always have to mentally prepare myself when walking into a Big 4 dealer.  It is usually an experience that is just short of sleazy.  Whereas with an HD dealership, you would expect it to be a skanky experience, but IMHO, it's way more of a pleasant experience.

Sleazy - Skanky...... I guess give me Skanky!!!

Gotta agree with much of what you said, and add it's nice to see only beautiful motorcycles on the showroom floor, not lawn mowers, rototillers, ATV's along side gawdy "surfer dude"  painted sport bikes in a tight line as well as water craft and snowmobiles etc. And dingy? Yup, many are, but some do have a "real motorcycle shop" feel to them depending on the personnel. I find there's not too many "senior industry" people behind the parts/service counter in comparison to HD parts/service counters, and sadly the resultant service reflects the lack of life experience, though I appreciate the exuberance of some younger workers.

In my case, when I bought my Harley, they asked their top wrench to come off a job and show me the basic controls, and how to start the bike, add and check the oil etc. When I bought my new FJR, the owner literally tossed me the keys and said, "We expect you know how to ride." It's not like the FJR was cheap either. I also had a much better experience when I took delivery of my Ducati. The salesperson and I did a multiple point walk around to make sure the bike was in order, and he also went over the manual with me, and some basic controls, starting procedure etc. plus I got some free T's.

I can fully understand the outcome of that particular survey, since it only validates my experience.  


 

[evilted]

Was this survey a worldwide survey or a USA survey?

Was wondering that very same thing.  If you go here:

http://www.mic.org/news072006.cfm

You'll see that they have sales data for the US a ways down into that 2006 press release:

Sales Background
In 2005, motorcycle and scooter sales topped the one-million level for the third straight year, high marks last seen during the 1970s. The MIC lists 1973 as the zenith for annual motorcycle sales, when Americans bought more than 1.5 million bikes. Sales for 1979 topped the one-million mark, then cooled in the 1980s and early 1990s. Motorcycling began its 13 years of increasing success back in 1993, with sales growing every year since.
1992 - 278,000   1999 - 546,000 1993 - 293,000   2000 - 710,000 1994 - 306,000   2001 - 850,000 1995 - 309,000   2002 - 936,000 1996 - 330,000   2003 - 1,001,000 1997 - 356,000   2004 - 1,063,000 1998 - 432,000   2005 - 1,116,000
U.S. New Unit Motorcycle Sales. Source: Motorcycle Industry Council

Given a sales volume of 1.1 million units, I'd say it must be US only sales data.  And on the home page they say the MIC was, "created to promote and preserve motorcycling and the U.S. motorcycle industry."

[surfsup]

Gotta agree with much of what you said, and add it's nice to see only beautiful motorcycles on the showroom floor, not lawn mowers, rototillers, ATV's along side gawdy "surfer dude"  painted sport bikes in a tight line as well as water craft and snowmobiles etc. And dingy? Yup, many are, but some do have a "real motorcycle shop" feel to them depending on the personnel. I find there's not too many "senior industry" people behind the parts/service counter in comparison to HD parts/service counters, and sadly the resultant service reflects the lack of life experience, though I appreciate the exuberance of some younger workers.

In my case, when I bought my Harley, they asked their top wrench to come off a job and show me the basic controls, and how to start the bike, add and check the oil etc. When I bought my new FJR, the owner literally tossed me the keys and said, "We expect you know how to ride." It's not like the FJR was cheap either. I also had a much better experience when I took delivery of my Ducati. The salesperson and I did a multiple point walk around to make sure the bike was in order, and he also went over the manual with me, and some basic controls, starting procedure etc. plus I got some free T's.

I can fully understand the outcome of that particular survey, since it only validates my experience.  


 

dittos - i initiated the purchase discussion (re: my FJR) from a very young but nice kid (among several) hanging around the sales floor who knew nothing about the bike - he was just a go-between for the 40 something year old sales manager - who also knew nothing about the bike - who after the (cash) sale turned me over to the parts and service managers who also knew very little about the bike - i really didn't expect much different - so i'm cool with it.


 

[Kat-Rider]

I have had good luck at most of the 'Big 4' shops where Ilive.
I think one reason that HD rates high in satisfaction is that it is a brand that lots of the cruiser riders want.  I know several Honda cruiser riders that are only on the Shadow until they can save up for a HD.  So they will never be satisfied with the Honda, simply because it is not the HD they want.  When they get the Hd they will be satisfied.

[SilverHound]

According to the Motorcycle Industry Council, Harley-Davidson lead the way by capturing more then 30% of the 1.1 million new units sold for all brands in 2007 (2008 figures are not yet available).

A spokesperson from the Nielson Media Research group was asked about those findings. “Well..." he said, "based on those figures, more people would rather own a Harley then any other single brand…”

You can read into these stats however you like but to me it says that 70% of U.S. riders chose not to own a Harley.

[Baz]

You can read into these stats however you like but to me it says that 70% of U.S. riders chose not to own a Harley.

And one should point out these are not world figures. 1.1 million units? Honda sells that many Honda Dreams in Thailand alone each year. (that is just Honda)

I would say that their twisted for marketing numbers really do not mean squat in the world stage.  

[chornbe]

dittos - i initiated the purchase discussion (re: my FJR) from a very young but nice kid (among several) hanging around the sales floor who knew nothing about the bike - he was just a go-between for the 40 something year old sales manager - who also knew nothing about the bike - who after the (cash) sale turned me over to the parts and service managers who also knew very little about the bike - i really didn't expect much different - so i'm cool with it.


 

I gave my salesman the instruction on the FJR when I bought it.  

[FJRski!]

   With the Dyna, it felt like I was doing the ton at 50.  No tickets in 2.5 years of ownership. Can't tour without a license, or money.  

There's a lot to like about that.

Maybe one more reason why HD owners love their ride.

[st ryder]

You can read into these stats however you like but to me it says that 70% of U.S. riders chose not to own a Harley.

 
LOL!! And an even a higher percentage choose not to own other brands.  

[st ryder]

There's a lot to like about that.

Maybe one more reason why HD owners love their ride.

An old adage says it's a lot more fun trying to go fast on a slow bike than having to go slow on a fast bike.  

[evilted]

The WR-X is the slowest accelerating street bike I've ever owned, but it's great fun to pin the throttle in every gear.  

An old adage says it's a lot more fun trying to go fast on a slow bike than having to go slow on a fast bike.  

[CosmicGS]

There's a lot to like about that.

Maybe one more reason why HD owners love their ride.

Absolutely. It is a good point.

I switch between my HD XL1200 and BMW GS all the time. When I get on my HD I remember all the reasons I love my HD. When I get back on my BMW I remember why I love the BMW.

The GS handles and brakes way better. It turns in easy and is very comfortable on any road.

The HD on the other hand does not do this. But in many ways, the HD is a more "exciting" ride. Twisting the throttle and feeling the low-end torque is a rush. Letting it glide through the turns vs. cutting through the turns is fun.

I think of it this way: the HD is like an old '69 muscle car. Can a modern sports car out turn it, brake it, etc? Of course. But that in no way takes away from the engine shaking grunt and seat of the pants excitement of the '69 muscle car. That is what an HD is. It is pure fun.

So when I see the haters and ignorant naysayers rag on HD until they are blue in the face, I laugh. Because the last time I checked, no one had the market cornered on "fun" and there is no "fun-meter" invented to measure who's smile is bigger than the other rider on two-wheels.

[surfsup]

anyone who can't have fun on a harley has a cob up their butt - so glad to not be among such ilk.

[Baz]

anyone who can't have fun on a harley has a cob up their butt - so glad to not be among such ilk.

I see you sold yours..

[surfsup]

and loved all 3 of them - but then i also love STs, adventurers, supers, standards, dirts, classic, etc - i'm simply a lover of motorcycles - unlike many who ride.

(and yes - if the good lord sees fit - i will probably own another HD in the future)