The future of motorcycling is dead.

[R.Markus]

I hadn't seen a thread on this yet, suprisingly...

I've been watching this new law come to pass. I didn't think it would actually happen, but it has. The impact is not big for sport touring because we are all adults (some may question that   ), but for adults wanting to watch their children learn to ride a small motorcycle it has a great impact.


The US Consumer Products Safety Comission has single handedly banned any motorcycle or ATV that is intended for use by someone under 12 years f age from legally being sold in the US. Further more, it is retroactive and also bans anyone from selling parts for the vehicles. This inlcudes motorcycles from approximately 125cc down (Depending on the manufacturer. Honda is still selling the CRF100, but Kawaski is no longer offering the KLX110).

The ban went into effect last Tuesday.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09115nord.pdf

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09115moore.pdf

Look at the Honda website, which no longer lists the sub 100cc dirt bikes or ATVs...

http://powersports.honda.com/offroad.aspx

The Yamaha site states their 50cc bikes are temporarily unavailable...

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modeloverview/cat/2009/59/model_overview.aspx

Kawasaki can't sell you the KLX110 or anything smaller...

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?scid=11&id=339

...and the list goes on to include all manufacturers.


I went to our Honda dealership today to pick up some parts i had ordered and found that they were given a list of parts that they were no longer allowed to sell. They had also been told to pull all the smaller cc vehicles off the floor and are no longer able to sell them. They were rebuilding my SL70 engine, but now they don't think that parts for it will be legal to purchase anymore.

This may no end up being permanent, but it's bad enough as it is.

[ironmike]

This will only create a "black market".... i.e.; Prohibition, the "War on Drugs", teenage abstinence...    

[Tar Snake]

This is about phthalates, the stuff the makes plastic soft.

I would think the pulling of products is temporary until:

A: Testing is in place
B: Phthalates free plastic bodywork starts being produced.

It's not time to panic yet!

[CBR_Rod]

Certainly is sad, and seems so stupid.  Went to the local dealer yesterday knowing about this.  They didn't remove the offending items from the floor, they did place 'not for sale' signs on them.

[R.Markus]

This is about phthalates, the stuff the makes plastic soft.

I would think the pulling of products is temporary until:

A: Testing is in place
B: Phthalates free plastic bodywork starts being produced.

It's not time to panic yet!

It's more than the plastics. It's the frames, engine cases, wheels, and various other items.

[Flyer]

The "Nanny State" is alive and thriving.
Won't someone please think of the children?  

[squeezer]

This is about phthalates, the stuff the makes plastic soft.

I would think the pulling of products is temporary until:

A: Testing is in place
B: Phthalates free plastic bodywork starts being produced.

It's not time to panic yet!

Yeah, let's get clear about this.  The OP has given misinformation.  The Consumer Product Safety Commission has NOT, has NOT banned motorcycles and ATV's for kids.  

What actually happened is that the U.S. Congress passed a law in August called the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act.  That act banned products for kids that contain more than 0.1% of certain phthalates, which are chemicals that make vinyl and other plastics soft and flexible.  Motorcycles and ATV's got caught up in that ban because those compounds are used in many places on bikes.

The law is the typical kind of moral panic/overreaction we get out of Congress, this time in response to lead contaminated Chinese made toys.  

Now, go ahead and wax poetically about the end of the world if you want to, but at least do it over the correct thing.

[CBR_Rod]

I don't know why parents can't keep their kids from chewing on their motocycles!  Mine don't.....

 

[DogBoy]

I've already sent letters to my congressional reps.

AMA Direct Link

[USMCUSAFbiker]

Sounds temporary, or at least I hope so. My kids are going to be totally bummed about this one. Now I wish I would have bought one sooner. Not like I would be able to get the parts to fix them now though. I guess it is just a wait and see what happens with this one.

[CBR_Rod]

So what will this do for the private used market I wonder?

[BuckeyeInNC]

Unless I am missing something, the documents posted by the OP do not appear to back up the statements.

As pointed out above, it is not about banning motorcycles that may be used by youngsters, rather it is about banning anything containing a specific amount of lead that may in contact with them . . .

FURTHER, the document published by the Consumer Product Safety Commission states that they are NOT ENFORCING the law until February 10, 2010.

Am I missing something, or are some folks around here wearing tinfoil hats?

[ZREXER1]

I have seen a few articles on this on various sites. I had to double check it was not April 1st, because it seemed so outlandish it had to be an April Fool's joke.

How did any of us born in the 60's survive until adult hood? Probably had lead paint on the crib I was in, no car seats, no helmets when riding a bicycle and on and on.

Usually laws this stupid and misguided are from Canadian governments, although I think the US will see more of this kind of stupid legislation with it's new government.

Hopefully common sense will prevail. Markus is right though if you make it tougher to introduce young new riders, the ultimate number of adult riders will decrease. Certainly the case in hunting. So many gun laws, many of the people I know have sold off all of their guns in frustration.

[atadaskew]

pshh.  Everyone knows the perfect beginner bike is a Japanese 600 supersport. Getting rid of those weedy little bikes will not make an ounce of difference.

[lizard]

Guess that means the kiddies all are supposed to start on Gixxer 1000's and be squidly!

No kids and none planned, so it doesn't impact me directly. If it stands as a permanent situation I think you are correct as eventually the number of bikes sold in the US will drop below the threshold for most manufacturers to fuss with. Honda is already ignoring the US market by letting models die off, not updating many US models, and not bringing newer models from other markets. If sales drop by 50% in the future they will probably walk away from the US market as a business decision.

[DrD]

The "Nanny State" is alive and thriving.
Won't someone please think of the children?  

That reminds me......

FOCUS ON YOUR OWN DAMN FAMILY.

[jay547]

the local honda/ktm shop has removed their minibikes from the floor.

[automag928]

Man that is ridiculous.  My brother in law bought a little suzuki 70cc dirt bike for his son who is 4, and it has training wheels and a governor on the throttle.  He loves riding it and has to "gear up" before hand, great way to get the kids outside and active instead of sitting inside watching TV.  I was planning on getting my son one since he'll be 4 at the end of this year, but looks like I'll be waiting to see what happens with this ban.

[phoenix]

I've already sent letters to my congressional reps.

AMA Direct Link

thanks for the link, that made it easier on me.  

I sent a letter to my state reps and then forwarded it on to a few friends that have kids and are probably interested.

[Zerosum]

What actually happened is that the U.S. Congress passed a law in August called the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act.  That act banned products for kids that contain more than 0.1% of certain phthalates, which are chemicals that make vinyl and other plastics soft and flexible.  Motorcycles and ATV's got caught up in that ban because those compounds are used in many places on bikes.

Um... okay.  So I shouldn't let my kid chew on the plastic fender?    I guess he shouldn't drink the contents of the crankcase, too.  Where's the warning label for that?!

Seriously, WTF?  When will the world be "safe" enough?  Reminds me of that George Carlin rant:



Today's kids are way too soft, for one thing there's too much emphasis on safety. Child proof medicine bottles and fire proof pajamas, child restraints and car seats, and helmets bicycles, skateboard, the baseball helmets, kids have to wear helmets now for everything but jerkin off. Grownups have taken all the fun out of being a kid . . . . It's pathetic. It's pathetic. What's happening is these baby boomers, these soft, fruity baby boomers are raising an entire generation of soft, fruity kids who aren't even allowed to have hazardous toys for chrissakes. Hazardous toys, shit, what ever happened to natural selection, survival of the fittest, the kid who swallows too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own. Simple as that. . . . .

[Kool shades]

But I can still go to Home Depot and buy my son his own mallet & wood Chisels. Right??

Or are they going to legislate that wood chisels be made out of PACKING FOAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lon]

Am I missing something, or are some folks around here wearing tinfoil hats?

Apparently you are.

Many motorcycles exceed the lead limit imposed by the act because lead is alloyed in the frame and other parts.

"Honda is still in process of completing tests on all of the materials used in our small ATV’s and motorcycles; however, some alloy materials commonly used to manufacture motor vehicles may inherently contain levels of lead that are (or ultimately will be) above the current, or future more aggressive, limits set forth in the Act. "

[scottzilla]

I thinks it's funny as hell Markus starts a bogus thread and people are still commenting like it really happened.

[Krismark]

This thread is not bogus. I know R.Markus likes to stir the pot excessively, but unfortunately it's not the case this time.  

[Lon]

Or are they going to legislate that wood chisels be made out of PACKING FOAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only if said chisels are made for children.

Think of the children.

[jfurf]

This law is a classic case of SHITTY legislative work. They reacted to a genuine fuckup in the product safety inspection process (remember all the tainted products from China we've been seeing lately...) and wrote a really, really vague law that affects like a billion different industries.

It's not just Honda mini-bikes that are affected. Friggin BOOK publishers use lead in their bindings! You know a law is screwed up when it threatens to take books away from kids. There's also a huge question with who the lead testing requirement applies to. The wording is vague: Do re-sellers on eBay and Amazon have to verify that every product for children that they sell has been tested for lead content? Lots of different business and trade groups have been calling for the law to be overhauled.

What a piss-poor job at regulation (and for the record, this was a thoroughly bipartisan affair mostly driven by all the alarmist reports on cable news about Chinese products). Congress would have been a thousand times better off just increasing the number of inspectors and testers at the CPSC.

[scottzilla]

Let me make sure I understand this...
In the wake of Chinese made toys containing dangerous levels of lead (Remember a few months ago?), our government passes a law designed to make these toys safer and we have a problem with this because it affects our hobby?  Wow, what an amazing lack of objectivitey we have here.  
Feel free to feel singled out and attacked.  I don't.  I have an expectation when I purchase a product that it is safe to use within the confines of it's intended use.  I kinda think you do to.  
If the motorcycling industry feels the kid-sized bikes are worth investing in, they will have to bear the burden of producing products that abide by the law.

If memory serves, the motorcycle industry fought the 3 wheel ATV (Trike) legislation that passed in the early 80's despite the fact that these things were very dangerous compared to the 4 wheelers that gained favor as a result of the 3 wheel ban.
You can hate the government all you want but many of these laws make sense and prevent MFG's from killing it's customers.  Asbestos, lead, DDT, freon and a long list of other substances were banned-and met with oposition-because of smart legislation.  The NHSB foced car makers to put airbags in cars for chrissakes.  

[Flyer]

Let me make sure I understand this...yadda, yadda...for chrissakes.  

S'cuse me.
Zero children have become nauseous from munching alloy bike frames.
"Shotgun" legislation is lazy, knee-jerk legislation that makes business more expensive than needs be, at a time when it shouldn't be.

[Joey Stalin]

Thank god for this, I can't tell you how many children I've known that have died due to licking the plastic on their dirtbikes.

[scottzilla]

S'cuse me.
Zero children have become nauseous from munching alloy bike frames.
"Shotgun" legislation is lazy, knee-jerk legislation that makes business more expensive than needs be, at a time when it shouldn't be.

Yup, they said this about every banned substance.  Taking asbestos brake pads away was supposed to end the car industry too.
Business either adapts or dies.

[scottzilla]

Thank god for this, I can't tell you how many children I've known that have died due to licking the plastic on their dirtbikes.

Yes, it would have been better to simply ignore the problem with lead in childrens toys.  Better yet, we'll pick and choose what products should have to abide by the law.  

[BuckeyeInNC]

Apparently you are.

Many motorcycles exceed the lead limit imposed by the act because lead is alloyed in the frame and other parts.

"Honda is still in process of completing tests on all of the materials used in our small ATV’s and motorcycles; however, some alloy materials commonly used to manufacture motor vehicles may inherently contain levels of lead that are (or ultimately will be) above the current, or future more aggressive, limits set forth in the Act. "

The question remains whether the manufacturers are capable of producing products that comply with the new requirements.

If not, then the original poster is correct.

If they can, then you folks are chicken little to my ears.

[gradus]

Will the 'wave' make a come back with fewer riders?

[jfurf]

Yes, it would have been better to simply ignore the problem with lead in childrens toys.  Better yet, we'll pick and choose what products should have to abide by the law.  

As a pink commie , I'm with you on the need for laws that ensure our products are safe. I don't have time to becoming a friggin expert in lead content! But I think there really is a problem with this law's reach and vagueness. Obviously kids aren't licking many brake pads.

[scottzilla]

As a pink commie , I'm with you on the need for laws that ensure our products are safe. I don't have time to becoming a friggin expert in lead content! But I think there really is a problem with this law's reach and vagueness. Obviously kids aren't licking many brake pads.

It's typical for our gov't to pass laws that reach far beyond their intented reach.  I agree with you on this.

[county]

Well, I am unsure if the legislation is directed at the mini bikes, mini fourwheelers, mini scooters etc that I see being sold at convenience stores and in front of a lot of small businesses but as far as I'm concerned they can ban those little pieces of Chinese crap.

[Lon]

Let me make sure I understand this...
In the wake of Chinese made toys containing dangerous levels of lead (Remember a few months ago?), our government passes a law designed to make these toys safer and we have a problem with this because it affects our hobby?  Wow, what an amazing lack of objectivitey we have here.  

Children should not suck on, gnaw on, or otherwise ingest motorcycles.  If they do, it's WELL outside intended use.

But, anyway...  R/C cars could probably also banned because of solder in the circuit boards, despite the fact that taking them apart is not intended use.

LCDs?  Dangerous stuff.  Contain lead and mercury.  Don't let your kids near them.  8 year olds don't need cell phones anyway.

Think of the children.

[Baz]

Soon it will be illegal to go outside.

[Head]

Soon it will be illegal to go outside.

SSSSHHHHHHH!   Don't give them any ideas.  Do you know how many dangers are out there.  Bees, trees, curbs, cars, bikes, playgrounds- oh god don't start me on the "playgrounds", school buses, school lunches, school marms, marshmellows, measles, mice, dice, lice, grass, and thats just what you can see.

[scottzilla]

Children should not suck on, gnaw on, or otherwise ingest motorcycles.  If they do, it's WELL outside intended use.

But, anyway...  R/C cars could probably also banned because of solder in the circuit boards, despite the fact that taking them apart is not intended use.

LCDs?  Dangerous stuff.  Contain lead and mercury.  Don't let your kids near them.  8 year olds don't need cell phones anyway.

Think of the children.

So you are saying toys should be painted with lead paint?

[Scoop]

Oh the phools.  Lawmaking based on the phalacy of phthalates.  

Sheesh.  

[Dan K]

But what if I am just a childish kind of guy and want a little mini-bike for myself?  I'm not 12 - who's to say those bikes are made for children under 12?

Since when do 12 year olds buy their own bikes, anyway?

Jeez.

Maybe a poor example of legislation, but let's remember, most laws have another reason they were passed in addition to their stated
reason - anyone think there is simply an intent by anti-chinese/japanese import politicians to lessen imports as opposed to make sure our kids don't eat their bikes?

- Dan

[Thunderbox]

The discussion is fine but I do have to say the title "The Future Of Motorcycling Is Dead" is in very poor taste and totally missleading considering it's really going to have a very minor effect on MOTORCYCLING.

[Scoop]

I would propose a new title:
"The Future of Motorcycling May be in Jeapordy Somehow and Someday Due to the Impacts of Many Variables"

But it may not have the same visceral impact.

[R.Markus]

...But it may not have the same visceral impact.

That's why I worded it like I did.

I've also run across not being able to buy parts for other bikes that are not intended for juveniles 12 and under because the bikes use the same parts.  

[county]

I would propose a new title:
"The Future of Motorcycling May be in Jeapordy Somehow and Someday Due to the Impacts of Many Variables"

But it may not have the same visceral impact.

Well, like the man said, it will last long enough for me.

[Lon]

So you are saying toys should be painted with lead paint?

Honda said:

The lead embedded in the alloys used in these products is not transferred through typical use of these products.

If a person has a reason to believe Honda is lying and that typical use can be toxic for children due to lead content, then that person should also believe children shouldn't have cell phones or many other types of electronics due to their lead content.

[Jes_VFR]

The NHSB foced car makers to put airbags in cars for chrissakes.  

And you are stupid enough to think that was a good thing????

That just means that the people who are too stupid to wear their seatbelts and drive responsibly get an extra opportunity to pollute the gene pool.

This law is also a terrible knee jerk reaction to a real problem.

What if I wanted a little dirt bike to putz around on at the track or something like that. I can't buy it because it might contain too much lead in the frames alloy.

WTF, Its as bad as some of these new exhaust laws. The idea is spawned by an idiot trying to do the right thing, but as usual with our government more and more, its gets snowballed into an impossible draconian monolith that can not work.

[artyboy]

This is why I don't want to have kids.  It just keeps getting worse and worse.  I'm loathe to see what America will look like in 50 years.

[R.Markus]

This is why I don't want to have kids.  It just keeps getting worse and worse.  I'm loathe to see what America will look like in 50 years.

+1000

[Scoop]

It will be populated by the offspring of those who were not appalled at their own stupidity.  

[jsanford]

The "Nanny State" is alive and thriving.
Won't someone please think of the children?  

Hey, I did, by not having any.

[jsanford]

But I can still go to Home Depot and buy my son his own mallet & wood Chisels. Right??

Or are they going to legislate that wood chisels be made out of PACKING FOAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, but in WA your ten-year-old can go hunting with a deer rifle without a legal adult.  

[R.Markus]

No, but in WA your ten-year-old can go hunting with a deer rifle without a legal adult.  

I don't see a problem with that. I would have a problem with a law that stated a 10 year old couldn't fire a gun, even with adult supervision.

[Scoop]

I actually don't see a problem with that either!  Less deer = good
And, I learned to shoot at a tender age.  Even as a Canadian!!

[stk0308]

Yup, they said this about every banned substance.  Taking asbestos brake pads away was supposed to end the car industry too.
Business either adapts or dies.

But this legislation, taken to it's full extent, would be like outlawing the car as a whole, not just the brake pads.  THAT would kill the industry.

[scottzilla]

Hardly.  It would merely force the mtgs to look at alternate materials.  You know, one day plastic may no longer be used in anything.  You need to think outside the box.

[Scoop]

On the other hand, we are really becoming a nanny state.  I am associated with public health and believe me, I know!  It is extremist behaviour, no doubt.

[Liquidsilver]

I really can't understand how people can be so stupid!   And I really can't understand who would be prosecuting a company for selling mini-bikes to kids.  
 
What about Americans with disabilities, like 'little people' that would benefit from the handicapped access afforded by a CR50F?
 
 
Dang, the world is F'd up!!!!  I think I'm going to dress like a pirate and start riding a motorcycle fit for a rebel... and to a free country like New Zealand... or....

[Scoop]

Well, this should protect the children.  After all, they might chew on a 50 or 100 cc bike, but never on anything longer.

[ChikkenNoodul]

Or, we could always train children to not lick motorcycles, or anything else not made for that purpose.

I guess that would just seem odd.

[Scoop]

Or, we could always train children to not lick motorcycles, or anything else not made for that purpose.

I guess that would just seem odd.

I dunno.  That was one of the first lessons that my children got.  "Don't lick the unlickable".

[falconati]

Ah, Amerikka.  Socialism is a slow process, I think we probably have another 30-50 years on our bikes before they're deemed 'unsafe.'

[Gun Slinger]

So... if I shoot some stupid bastard in the head with a large caliber lead bullet, will I face some stupid @$$ lawsuit from uncle same for lead poisoning???
We all have an appointment with our maker... why do we need a government to try and help change that date? Do they know the date that we have been given? $#!t happens and people die. Get over it!
I'm with the guy that said keeping everyone alive is just polluting the gene pool!

[bpg]

No, but in WA your ten-year-old can go hunting with a deer rifle without a legal adult.  

nuttin' wrong w/ that...  Give kids RESPONSIBILITY, instead of legislating away every possible little harm that may come their way...

[Scoop]

Naw, best to wrap them in bubble wrap and put a helmet on em.  Heaven forbid they get a scrape or break a leg!!

[yellowbird]

Does this apply to bicycles. They are made with chromealloy frames. I don't see any bicycles being affected.
How about powered toys that use a lead acid battery (Barbie power wheels).

[hig4s]

Does this apply to bicycles. They are made with chromealloy frames. I don't see any bicycles being affected.
How about powered toys that use a lead acid battery (Barbie power wheels).

From what I've read, they do not pass either, yet they have not being pulled off the market. Not sure why?

[marc11]

I dunno.  That was one of the first lessons that my children got.  "Don't lick the unlickable".

That was laugh out loud at your desk at work funny....in fact, I am still giggling.

[R.Markus]

From what I've read, they do not pass either, yet they have not being pulled off the market. Not sure why?

I read (and now I can't find the link) that bicycles were not affected as the definition used by the lawmakers to define "toy" excluded bicycles and some other odd items.

[Windblown]

So... I guess this means kids under 12 won't be able to go fishing. Those lead splitshot weights and all... Or can we expect some brainiac to ban lead fishing weights entirely since a kid *might* eat one.

A misguided myopic kneejerk reaction from the government. Who'd a thunk it?

[yellowbird]

I read (and now I can't find the link) that bicycles were not affected as the definition used by the lawmakers to define "toy" excluded bicycles and some other odd items.

Apparently bicycle are caught up in this stupidity.
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia09/petition/pp33.pdf

[R.Markus]

Apparently bicycle are caught up in this stupidity.
http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia09/petition/pp33.pdf

My bad. Maybe that's why I couldn't find the link again.  

[1moreroad]

So... I guess this means kids under 12 won't be able to go fishing. Those lead splitshot weights and all... Or can we expect some brainiac to ban lead fishing weights entirely since a kid *might* eat one.

A misguided myopic kneejerk reaction from the government. Who'd a thunk it?

Actually lead weights are being replaced because of heavy metal contamination of water sources when fishermen lose the weights.

[Scoop]

And ducks eat 'em.

[steve.m]

I don't know why parents can't keep their kids from chewing on their motocycles!  Mine don't.....

 

amazing response  

[phoenix]

One of my senators emailed me back yesterday! And somehow I am now a doctor!

February 24, 2009

Dr. Rory Kilcoin

Dear Rory:

   Thank you for contacting me.  I am always glad to hear from you.

   I appreciate hearing your comments regarding the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (CPSIA).  I was a proud co-sponsor of this legislation.
This past year, Iowa's families were frightened by story after story of dangerous products that had to be recalled.  There were 472 product recalls last year alone. From pet food to kitchen appliances, consumers were often left wondering whether the products they were using everyday were safe.  One of the most upsetting occurrences was the news of toxic toys that contained hazardous lead paint.  More than 20 million toys were recalled last year due to lead paint.

   As you know, in order to better protect consumers, Congress passed the CPSIA to provide new safety and accountability standards for manufactured goods.  It also authorized a much needed infusion of resources to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), the federal agency responsible for protecting American consumers.  Recent recalls have made it painfully clear that the CPSC is grossly underfunded and understaffed.  The bill we passed will ensure the CPSC can beef up its staff and provide the oversight Americans expect.

   One important safety provision included in the bill is the requirement of third-party testing and certification for children's products.  I believe this is a crucial provision. It is vital that Americans know the products they are purchasing, especially for their children, are safe.

   I also recognize that this testing process may create a burden for small manufacturers.  For that reason, I am pleased the law provides an exemption for crafters who only make one copy of each item.  Furthermore, while businesses must still be sure their products conform to all safety standards, a recent decision by the CPSC grants a one year stay on testing and certification requirements for certain products.  This stay will give the Commission more time to finalize rules relieving certain materials and products from testing and certification - such as untreated wood and natural fibers - and to issue more guidance on when testing is required and how it is to be conducted.

   I do not, however, favor a blanket exemption for all small businesses.
Many recalls in the past have come from small manufacturers, and it is imperative that parents know that a product does not contain lead, no matter who manufactured it. While I am extremely sympathetic that this requirement may be a significant burden for many small businesses, I believe our children's health and safety must come first and testing is a necessary safeguard.

   For further guidance on the testing and certification postponement, as well as requirements for sellers of used children products, such as thrift stores and consignment stores, I encourage you to visit the CPSC's website at www.cpsc.gov.

   Again, thanks for sharing your views with me.  Please don't hesitate to let me know how you feel on any issue that concerns you.

               Sincerely,



               Tom Harkin
               United States Senator

TH/amb

sounds like he ain't gonna help though. Thanks a lot, senator.

[ChikkenNoodul]

Actually lead weights are being replaced because of heavy metal contamination of water sources when fishermen lose the weights.

Yes, same with shot from shotgun shells used for bird hunting.

[BuckeyeInNC]

sounds like he ain't gonna help though. Thanks a lot, senator.

Thank god for that.

This ignorance in this thread is amazing.  People worrying about banning fishing becuase of lead sinkers being unsafe!?!    Some serious idiocy there.

Lead has been banned from many different products because of its toxicity and alternatives were found.  For example, the automobile industry did not shut down because of the banning of leaded gasoline, paint manufacturers found alternatives to lead based paints . . . etc. etc.

Manufacturers will innovate and design around the use of lead in products.

Lots of Chicken Littles in this thread.

[WarER4X]

My wife and I went to a local Honda dealer to do some window shopping for a motorcycle for her.  We saw two 50cc Jr. dirtbikes sitting in the warehouse.  The guy informed us that they were not allowed to sell them anymore because of this new law due to the presence of small amounts of lead in the frame.  The law had gone into effect two days before we got there.  Too bad, 'cause I could've probably gotten a heck of a deal on one of them before then.

On a side note, I just heard on the news last week that the same law also affects libraries.  Apparently, all libraries now have to verify that their books do not contain any of the materials restricted by the new law.  Any books that aren't screened have to be off limits to anyone under the age of 12.  If the library doesn't screen any of their books, then the entire library is off limits to anyone under the age of 12.

This is flipping ridiculuous and embarrassing.

-SR-

[R.Markus]

On a side note, I just heard on the news last week that the same law also affects libraries.  Apparently, all libraries now have to verify that their books do not contain any of the materials restricted by the new law.  Any books that aren't screened have to be off limits to anyone under the age of 12.  If the library doesn't screen any of their books, then the entire library is off limits to anyone under the age of 12.

Yeah, the law affects a lot more than motorcyclists. I just posted what was relevent to this board.

I have friends that work at our Honda shop and they lost quite a few sales due to this. Out local KTM dealer is pretty stressed as a majority of their sales center around youth MX and now they can't sell the bikes or parts for them right now.

[BuckeyeInNC]

It also affects textile manufacturers . . .  The law is quite sweeping.

The biggest issue with this legislation isnt the purpose of it, but rather the execution.

It seems as if our businesses are not being given enough time to adjust and provide alternatives.  We have lived with these hazardous substances for quite awhile and allowing business to sell off existing inventory and/or being given enough time to provide viable non-toxic alternatives is not being permitted here.

[Capirex]

I don't understand why they can't just slap a big ass 'this product may be harmful / you can't sue us if your kid grows a giant face tumor' warning sticker on the things and be done with it.  

[R.Markus]

The biggest issue with this legislation isnt the purpose of it, but rather the execution.

It seems as if our businesses are not being given enough time to adjust and provide alternatives.  We have lived with these hazardous substances for quite awhile and allowing business to sell off existing inventory and/or being given enough time to provide viable non-toxic alternatives is not being permitted here.

That is actually my only problem with it. The intent of the law isn't bad, just the execution of it.

[Windblown]

It also affects textile manufacturers . . .  The law is quite sweeping.

The biggest issue with this legislation isnt the purpose of it, but rather the execution.

It seems as if our businesses are not being given enough time to adjust and provide alternatives.  We have lived with these hazardous substances for quite awhile and allowing business to sell off existing inventory and/or being given enough time to provide viable non-toxic alternatives is not being permitted here.

What's the matter? I thought you were in love with this legislation based on your earlier post.

The legislation is ridiculously flawed no matter how you twist it. If it's a GREAT idea then the legislation is seriously flawed because (in the case of motorcycles and ATV's) it only targets those that would be supposedly ridden by young people.  Can't adults get lead poisoning?  Are children magically repelled from coming in contact with a fullsize motorcycle or ATV?  

I stand by my original position: The legislation was an ill thought out myopic kneejerk reaction.  Noble intent doesn't mean much when the end result is stupid.

[phoenix]

What's the matter? I thought you were in love with this legislation based on your earlier post.

+1 and   WTF buckeye?

not to mention this remark:

Manufacturers will innovate and design around the use of lead in products.

I don't really know the material composition of the alloys used for motorcycle frames and other parts, but if they contain "X" amount of lead, the whole "innovate and design around" route is going to take at least a few years of prototype testing. And then what, maybe all these bikes that are sitting in warehouses across the country will be retrofitted with the new parts? Shit, it would be easier to scrap them out and replace them as a whole. Meantime, they are illegal to sell.

[BuckeyeInNC]

What's the matter? I thought you were in love with this legislation based on your earlier post.

My earlier post was a reaction to those folks who appear to be discounting the danger lead poses to the development of our children.  Those who don't understand that appear to be misinformed.

Case in point:

The legislation is ridiculously flawed no matter how you twist it. If it's a GREAT idea then the legislation is seriously flawed because (in the case of motorcycles and ATV's) it only targets those that would be supposedly ridden by young people.  Can't adults get lead poisoning?  Are children magically repelled from coming in contact with a fullsize motorcycle or ATV?  

With respect to lead poisoning in adults, the answer is that adults are in no way near as much at risk as our children.  Thus, the laws being directed to products which are intended for children.

Of course children are not "magically repelled" from coming into contact with fullsize motorcycles, ATV, or other products which are not covered by lead safety legislation, for good reason, children are not as exposed to such products as they are to those products which are intended for the children.  The law is carefully crafted to cover the risk and no broader.

I stand by my original position: The legislation was an ill thought out myopic kneejerk reaction.  Noble intent doesn't mean much when the end result is stupid.

I agree that the law did not appear to give the manufacturers adequate time to develop alternatives, and appear to be leaving them and others with inventory that they cannot sell and customers who cannot get product that they need.  In that sense, I agree that it appears to be ill thought out and a kneejerk reaction.

[Scoop]

Yup, lead definitely = bad, especially around kids.
But, if they are sucking on their motorcycles, perhaps it is too late......

[DosEquis00]

My earlier post was a reaction to those folks who appear to be discounting the danger lead poses to the development of our children.  Those who don't understand that appear to be misinformed.

The ingesting of lead is a danger from old lead pipes or eating paint chips. It should be an issue in toys but eating or licking motorcycles is wasting everyone's time.

[BuckeyeInNC]

The ingesting of lead is a danger from old lead pipes or eating paint chips. It should be an issue in toys but eating or licking motorcycles is wasting everyone's time.

No one is concerned with anyone licking a motorcycle.  You do not have to be treating your motorcycle as a "food" or put your mouth directly on anything to be at risk.

The problem is based upon very common "hand-to-mouth" behavior that we all have.  Touching it then eating food that you touch with your hands, or hand to face contact, and even breathing in the lead particles off of hands has been proven to be a problem at lower levels than previously understood.

This research behind all of this is really only a google search or two away . . . .

[dnlwthrn]

Does this mean I'm not going to be able to get engine parts for the mini-trail that's in pieces in my office right now?  That would sincerely suck, as I need rings and a gasket kit in order to even put it back together.

[DosEquis00]

The problem is based upon very common "hand-to-mouth" behavior that we all have.  Touching it then eating food that you touch with your hands, or hand to face contact, and even breathing in the lead particles off of hands has been proven to be a problem at lower levels than previously understood.

I understand hand to mouth but most of this regulation is still nonsense.

[R.Markus]

Does this mean I'm not going to be able to get engine parts for the mini-trail that's in pieces in my office right now?  That would sincerely suck, as I need rings and a gasket kit in order to even put it back together.

Technically yes, but I'm sure you'll be able to get parts somewhere. I'm having the same problem with my SL70.

[dnlwthrn]

I'm going to try and order what I need from Northeast Vintage Cycle  They might have what you need, so I'll try to update when I actually place the order...

[tjhess74]

still in disbelief that this is happening, i stopped by a couple dealers this weekend here in the charleston area and they confirmed...no bikes/atvs, parts, sales, mentioning....nothing!   they have all thier 'banned' stock in warehouses awaiting the ban being lifted.

what i thought was cool though, a guy and his 5 year old pulled up in the front parking lot and he had his kids dirtbike in the back of his truck needing some carb work.  they just happened to meet again somehow in the rear of the building and 'secretly' went to working to do what they could to fix it without using stocked parts.  in case the govt is reading this, i wont say where it was, who did the work, and what size the bike was

[hig4s]

The manufacturers just need to put stickers on all the little bikes that say "not intended for use by children under 12" and market them as little people's trail motorcycles. That or one federal discrimination law suit by someone of small stature that rides a 50 or 70 and can't get parts, should do it.

[Mydlyfkryzis]

I imagine an electric wheelchair designed for children is out too. Lead acid batteries. Lead in the controller circuitry.

If fact, think of all the electronics that are specifically designed for children, there is lead solder in all of them, never mind the plastic.

This is legislation made by lawyers who have no idea how things are made, or what the risk's really are. They see "lead is Bad" and ban lead.

Lead based paint omn childrens goods - Makes sense to ban.
Lead in vinyl, kids suck on vinyl, O.K.,

But the environmentalist, IMHO, want to ban all lead, it's a heavy metal, "dangerous", and this is the start of the "slippery slope" that gets anything with even a trace of lead off the market.

Why stop at protecting children? Let's protect adults too. Let's protect the world.

[1moreroad]

 in case the govt is reading this, i wont say where it was, who did the work, and what size the bike was

   I thought you WERE the government?

[Scoop]

The manufacturers just need to put stickers on all the little bikes that say "not intended for use by children under 12" and market them as little people's trail motorcycles. That or one federal discrimination law suit by someone of small stature that rides a 50 or 70 and can't get parts, should do it.

It's like the warnings on those pudding cans, "Do not lick lid", after everyone cut their tongues trying to get the pudding off.  We need big stickers that say "Do not lick vehicle".  And then some sort of graphic for those who don't speak English.  

[phoenix]

Got an email from an Iowa congressman that noted how H.R. 1587 has been introduced to ammend the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act of 2008 to provide an exemption for certain off highway vehicles. So maybe Congress got the message?

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1587

[dnlwthrn]

Could be.  On the same note, I had NO problems getting the parts I needed for a 1972 Honda Mini-trail 50.  Its back together now, just have to find the time to put oil in and run it.