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Topic: K1300S crushes Busa in Sport Rider comparo  (Read 12594 times)

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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2009, 12:52:42 PM »

high speed showdown != top speed showdown

The entire irony about this article is that SR actually did an evaluation of how a bike functions on the road and threw out how it performs on the strip/track when making the comparo.  Sport Rider?  Wow.  WTF?
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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2009, 06:50:07 PM »

LOL I didn't read that article as "crushing" anything.  Overall score was 5.3 points more.  That doesn't say "crushing" to me.  That's marginally better.  I test rode a K1300S.  It's a very nice machine.  Feels beefier than the K1200S, faster, closer to that "hand of god" acceleration I feel on my ZX-14.  Not enough to make me want to buy one though, and my ZX-14 still feels faster to my butt dyno.    BMW is gunning for the Japanese rival bikes, and appears to be doing it very successfully.  Congrats to them. However, regardless as to what anyone says about comparing the price point, you pay for all the BMW geegaws and factory farkles.  Dearly.  $17,500 as tested?  OTD?  You can walk out of MANY dealers show rooms with a new 2009 Hayabusa for $11 easy. I only paid $11K for my 2008 ZX-14 OTD.  That's $6,500 in price difference, based on the as-tested price and ONLY if you can really get it OTD for $17,500.  DAMN.  I've NEVER been able to get the BMW dealer to negotiate on price with me on a brand new BMW, even a little, otherwise I'd have had a 2006 K1200S.  NO I don't want the K1300S at $11K, but DAMN cut SOME slack on the price.
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« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2009, 06:57:38 PM »




I didn't buy my K12S with the notion of drag strip racing.....I highly doubt anyone who WOULD purchase a K13S would care how it compared to the busa in a 1/4 mile time....other than shear interest AFTER purchasing one.


You don't have to be interested in going drag racing to use the results to evaluate engine performance.  8 mph in trap speed is consistent with the dyno results in showing the HP difference between the bikes, and where one engine is so significantly superior to the other, acceleration differences in rollons must certainly be via gearing.  That's all I said.

And for the person who says the K12/K13 is not in the same category of bike as the ZX-14/Hayabusa, I entirely disagree.  Those three bikes *make* the "hyperbike" class.

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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2009, 08:08:59 PM »

Although the average BMW buyer may not be interested in 1/4 mile times and top-speed runs, the BMW factory engineers most certainly are and by the production of the K13S and S1000R they're aiming at  non-traditional customers and the bikes they would normally purchase.
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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2009, 08:57:40 PM »


  I've NEVER been able to get the BMW dealer to negotiate on price with me on a brand new BMW, even a little, otherwise I'd have had a 2006 K1200S.  NO I don't want the K1300S at $11K, but DAMN cut SOME slack on the price.

Did you try any of the downstate dealers?  Both my shop in Champaign and the guys down in Cape Girardeau we willing to deal on 06's.  Twin City did better, but I think they were trying harder because I'm local for them.

You could have had your own Busa stomping machine. Wink Bigsmile
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2009, 08:58:42 PM »




And for the person who says the K12/K13 is not in the same category of bike as the ZX-14/Hayabusa, I entirely disagree.  Those three bikes *make* the "hyperbike" class.



I guess you are referring to me.  Smile  If those 3 bikes make up the "hyperbike" class, then what class would you put the ZX-11, Blackbird, first GEN Busa, ZX-12R, and ZZR1200 in?  They all had more impressive performance numbers than the K12/K13S.  In fact, the C14's numbers are very close to the K12/K13S and like the K12/K13S, it also has a shaft drive and a humane riding position.

Is the K13S a hyperbike?  I don't think so when it has a shaft drive and slower 1/4 mile times than a 1990 ZX-11 ( I think the ZX-11 will also beat the K13S in top speed but that is yet to be proven).  

The K13S looks like it is going to be a very fast and comfortable sport-touring bike and I would guess it is going to be making sales in that market since it seems to be a better sport-tourer than the K1300GT, at least for solo riders...and if I had one, that is how I would use it.  I doubt that it will have any impact on Busa or ZX-14 sales since that market is about HP.
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2009, 10:10:27 PM »




I guess you are referring to me.  Smile  If those 3 bikes make up the "hyperbike" class, then what class would you put the ZX-11, Blackbird, first GEN Busa, ZX-12R, and ZZR1200 in?  They all had more impressive performance numbers than the K12/K13S.  In fact, the C14's numbers are very close to the K12/K13S and like the K12/K13S, it also has a shaft drive and a humane riding position.

Is the K13S a hyperbike?  I don't think so when it has a shaft drive and slower 1/4 mile times than a 1990 ZX-11 ( I think the ZX-11 will also beat the K13S in top speed but that is yet to be proven).  

The K13S looks like it is going to be a very fast and comfortable sport-touring bike and I would guess it is going to be making sales in that market since it seems to be a better sport-tourer than the K1300GT, at least for solo riders...and if I had one, that is how I would use it.  I doubt that it will have any impact on Busa or ZX-14 sales since that market is about HP.


The bikes you mention *were* in that class.  They are no longer in production, as you know.  The class *today* of maximum speed/power/not-pure-sportbikes is the three I cited.  Possibly the new Honda V4 will join that class, hard to tell what it's aimed at at this juncture.

I'm not interested in another "what's a sport-tourer" thread, but nobody who has ridden a ZX-14, a C-14, and a K12s/K13s would align the BMWs with the C-14 rather than the ZX.  The K13GT is the obvious counterpart to the C-14.

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« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 10:13:04 PM by kevin_stevens » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2009, 10:14:41 PM »


LOL I didn't read that article as "crushing" anything.  Overall score was 5.3 points more.  That doesn't say "crushing" to me.  That's marginally better.  I test rode a K1300S.  It's a very nice machine.  Feels beefier than the K1200S, faster, closer to that "hand of god" acceleration I feel on my ZX-14.  Not enough to make me want to buy one though, and my ZX-14 still feels faster to my butt dyno.    BMW is gunning for the Japanese rival bikes, and appears to be doing it very successfully.  Congrats to them. However, regardless as to what anyone says about comparing the price point, you pay for all the BMW geegaws and factory farkles.  Dearly.  $17,500 as tested?  OTD?  You can walk out of MANY dealers show rooms with a new 2009 Hayabusa for $11 easy. I only paid $11K for my 2008 ZX-14 OTD.  That's $6,500 in price difference, based on the as-tested price and ONLY if you can really get it OTD for $17,500.  DAMN.  I've NEVER been able to get the BMW dealer to negotiate on price with me on a brand new BMW, even a little, otherwise I'd have had a 2006 K1200S.  NO I don't want the K1300S at $11K, but DAMN cut SOME slack on the price.



You're not allowed to mention price when discussing BMW's. Rolleyes Bigsmile
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2009, 10:17:51 PM »


high speed showdown != top speed showdown

The entire irony about this article is that SR actually did an evaluation of how a bike functions on the road and threw out how it performs on the strip/track when making the comparo.  Sport Rider?  Wow.  WTF?


So it's a coincidence both bikes were tested against each other?  How can you put anything up against a Busa and not have performance comparisons come up? Shrug
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« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2009, 12:01:06 AM »

Yes, you can make the comparison, but for the point they were trying to make 1/4 mile and top speed wasn't high on the list of things to care about.

If this was a strip, pure performance or track comparo (not sure the Busa would win that one)...I'm sure the Busa would trounce the K13S.

1/4 mile and top speed don't mean dick to the vast majority of riders.  If it did everyone would be riding literbikes, Busa, and ZX14s.  They don't, because it's not important to them.
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« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2009, 08:16:35 AM »


Yes, you can make the comparison, but for the point they were trying to make 1/4 mile and top speed wasn't high on the list of things to care about.

If this was a strip, pure performance or track comparo (not sure the Busa would win that one)...I'm sure the Busa would trounce the K13S.

1/4 mile and top speed don't mean dick to the vast majority of riders.  If it did everyone would be riding literbikes, Busa, and ZX14s.  They don't, because it's not important to them.


I understand that but why did BMW build the K1300S then?  They are going after Japanese bike customers and are starting to produce bikes that can compete from a performance perspective.  Are they doing this because BMW customers don't care about performance? Headscratch
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« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2009, 08:47:52 AM »

maybe they are adding all that performance so those riders can pull their 10' trailer and consumables for their really long trips..... Bigsmile

personally, until my wife gets back into riding all the time (like she used to), i'm goin back to smaller bikes sporty-er(?) bikes. those BMWs are just plain huge (and fugly) ...obviously not as big as a Wing, but still. i was wasting time at the Sturgis BMW shop the other weekend and saw what i think was the 1300gt? ( i wasn't really paying too much attention) $22k       EEK! EEK! EEK! EEK! EEK!  are you flipping kidding me?  sh$&, i'll go buy a Busa, put it on a diet, add all the farkles i want, and be probably still ahead and happy too. anyways, it's nice that are other companies are trying to compete in certain markets. it's good for consumers to have a some choices and causes the other companies to raise their game to compete.
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« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2009, 12:37:34 PM »




I understand that but why did BMW build the K1300S then?  They are going after Japanese bike customers and are starting to produce bikes that can compete from a performance perspective.  Are they doing this because BMW customers don't care about performance? Headscratch


IMHO, that's how you gain marketshare.  The current demographics for BMW are far older than demographics for Japanese bikes.  "Conquest" sales (getting someone to move from another brand) are a much larger market than replacements for existing customers.
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« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2009, 01:10:49 PM »




I understand that but why did BMW build the K1300S then?  They are going after Japanese bike customers and are starting to produce bikes that can compete from a performance perspective.  Are they doing this because BMW customers don't care about performance? Headscratch


Everything that I've ever seen from BMW on the K/S bikes has been about performance - "fastest, highest powered BMW ever", "Best stock bike lap time at Nurburgring" (at the time) - they had a K1200S commercial that showed two riders racing through Paris? streets.  They were always advertised and positioned based on their performance.

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« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2009, 01:14:32 PM »




Everything that I've ever seen from BMW on the K/S bikes has been about performance - "fastest, highest powered BMW ever", "Best stock bike lap time at Nurburgring" (at the time) - they had a K1200S commercial that showed two riders racing through Paris? streets.  They were always advertised and positioned based on their performance.

KeS



Well, their new bike gets spanked by the Busa but Shhhh!  It's not about performance! Lol
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« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2009, 01:26:27 PM »

It only matters to bench racers or those who think they're going to be riding all day at 186 mph, or doing 1200 1/4 mile runs in a day to get in 300 miles.   Lol  Like I said, the rest don't care.  They wan't performance, but a few tenths of a second here and a handful of mph there really doesn't matter compared to the entire package.  The K13S is a fast bike, the Busa is marginally faster.  But both will get you jail or dead in the same amount of time.

I'm not defending or promoting either bike, as I've owned a Busa and would consider owning K13S.  But I think I agree with the article, the K13S seems to be a much more complete package for street riding compared to the Busa.  And I think that's all they were trying to say in the article.

It never denies that the Busa is faster (top speed) or quicker (in the quarter mile) since they publish the numbers.  Only bench racers (or real racers) care about that.
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« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2009, 01:44:56 PM »

Why wasn't a Guzzi in this comparo?  Are they scared of the truth?

(filling in for Orson until he shows up)
 
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« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2009, 01:51:41 PM »

I'm with UFO on this , I suspect actual buyers might note the specs , but base purchase on other things - dealer , 2 up capability , whatever.

by the way - VFR   VFR    VFR -- the 1200  mirage.  hey , maybe Honda should rename  it ' mirage'
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« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2009, 02:24:23 PM »

[quote ]
The K13S looks like it is going to be a very fast and comfortable sport-touring bike and I would guess it is going to be making sales in that market since it seems to be a better sport-tourer than the K1300GT, at least for solo riders...and if I had one, that is how I would use it.  
[/quote]

That's where it has my interest, I've ridden all 4 bikes (hayabusa, ZX, GT, K1300s) and there's something about the k1300's sophistication that has me interested when I let the FJR go next year. The hayabusa has the best aftermarket hands down of nearly every bike made, but it is feeling a little long in the tooth to me, and I doubt there's a Gen 3 forthcoming this year. And for once, I am actually not completely offended by the price tag like I am on the k1300GT. It's steeper no doubt, but compared to a new FJR for example, it's not that much more for what you get.

I've owned one BMW, an RT, that was a complete lemon, so I remain leery there. There's definitely some issues with stalling being discussed on the BMW forums.
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« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2009, 05:53:39 PM »


I'm with UFO on this , I suspect actual buyers might note the specs , but base purchase on other things - dealer , 2 up capability , whatever.

by the way - VFR   VFR    VFR -- the 1200  mirage.  hey , maybe Honda should rename  it ' mirage'


Mirages are prettier.
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