First Bike: Ninja 500r vs. 250r

[Poustman]

Having read many posts/articles on choosing a first motorcycle, and having considered carefully things like the SV650 (a bit too powerful), Wee-Stroms, Versys and the like (more power than I think I probably need, plus not terribly attracted to the styling) and having looked at many others, I feel the combination of specs, price, and looks leave me looking between a Ninja 500r and a Ninja 250r as my first bike.  

I am 5'11", 180lbs, am not mechanically inclined but am interested in learning about the bike I choose (including doing easier mods.)  I obey the speed limit, and am interested in some longer tours including some Iron Butt endeavors. Probably would almost never ride 2-up with another adult (my wife cheers me on but does not herself want to participate),  though on occasion perhaps would do short road rides with one of my two young daughters on the back. Although I have never been an outdoorsman or a camper of any kind I'd like to cautiously dip my toe into some solo tenting at campgrounds on a longer tour (I've been inspired by various ride reports, esp. great photos by Anna at excessivelocity.com) Thus I'd want to be able to carry some small amount of gear.

I do feel that good mileage is a fairly significant factor-- I get a grin from the idea of ridiculously good km/litre (miles/gallon.)  That way doing a SaddleSore costs little more than time.  Living where I do, though, I'd be riding a notoriously hilly connector (the Coquihalla) fairly often, as well as various other mountainous routes, and would definitely want adequate power to fly uphill, having to watch to keep from drawing radar ire even when ascending steep long climbs.

So would the 250r be enough for me for a good while?  Will it happily do SaddleSores even up long hills of several miles at a time at a steep ascent?  With a Givi bag or three?  Or would I be better off with a 500r?  I have read of 250r mods (apparently one fellow I've corresponded with via YouTube used a setup with 2 bros exhaust, re-jet kit, sprocket set for re-gearing, K&N air filter and now claims his 250r is as fast as his stock 650r, at about 75lbs lighter.)  If that is realistic and if the 250r could do all I want I'd be tickled to ride such a small, flickable, gas-eschewing bike.  However, while I have no illusions that my first bike will last forever (or even more than a few years) I dislike the idea of getting into a 250r if I'll probably want to upgrade in less than 2 riding seasons. (I recently met a fellow who bought a 250r for his first bike in April 2009 and by August 2009 had bought a SV650 and was selling his Ninja.  That's too much buying and selling rigamarole for my taste.)

I'm not in a hurry and would like to make a well-informed decision.  Thanks for reading and for generously sharing your experience.

[scottzilla]

The 500R is "Faster".  It's deceptively fast actually.  It would be a better choice for long distances.  The 250 was updated for 2008 whereas the 500R is an old design.
I would take the 250 simply because I used to race a 500R and had my fill.

[Poustman]

Thanks scottzilla.  If I understand, then, you think the 250r would be a perfectly adequate choice, just that the 500r would be even more in its element on the long distances?

I have to admit, while I'm not entirely free from the typical 'bigger is better' urge, most of me feels smarter and 'deeper' going for a smaller displacement bike.  As long as it will have the oomph to pass and climb, the 250r has a certain 'that guy gets it' niche to it, in my opinion.

[chornbe]

500.

The 250s are a hoot but are more frenetic.

[Squijummonkey]

I started out on an ex500 and they are an excellent beginner's bike and I would recommend it to any person looking for starter bike. Not only is it deceptively fast as Scottzilla stated, but they are very forgiving. What is also nice, is that they are easy to work on since you dont' have to tear a bunch of plastic off to get to something.

I rode it for 2 riding seasons (could have gone longer had I not have run across the Blackbird) and it doesn't get old. It gets up there in speed nicely. Unless you're riding with people on Busa's and 14's, you won't want to change bikes soon. It's a perfect bike; does city riding nicely, and I think I got about 70 miles/gallon (4.5 gallon tank) if you don't ride the throttle like a beast. Even when you do ride the throttle, you still get about 50 mpg.

IMO the 250 is too little; you'll grow out of it too fast. The 500 has a longer grow in period; you'll learn speed, throttle control, and everything else without scaring the crap out of yourself, at the same time, it will take a while until you're longing for more.

[Poustman]

These comments are very helpful!  Thanks everyone.

[Billbo]

Definitely go for the 500. I've owned a couple. The 250 is great for around town/commuting, but for touring it's not quite enough. 30-something horsepower verses 52. Check out EX-500.com. Lots of info there. I'm Billbo there also. Look for a GenerationII (1994 and up). Better tranny, better alternator, and 17" wheels. Easy to work on, lots of parts availability, lots of after market stuff. Good choice.

[mugwump58]

500

[jesse0192]

I had an '03 250 and I'd recommend it to anybody.  If I got a second bike today (not a replacement bike, but a second bike), it would definitely be an ex250.  I did tons of interstate miles on it...actually binned it on the interstate, fluke accident... it's good for keeping you out of trouble too, since it tops out around 100.  But I've never heard a bad word said about the 500, either.


edit... also should've noted I put 11k miles on my ex250 in the 12 months I owned it; and I was only able to ride it for 7 of those months it all comes down to what you really want your bike to do.

[bogfro]

I started on a 250, but quickly grew tired of its lack of power going up hills, it's cramped ergos (6'0" 170 lbs), and it's lack of luggage.  If you're wanting to tour though, you're in a tough spot, because even the 500 probably doesn't have room to hook up a bunch of hard bags to it.  But you'd probably grow tired of the 500 less quickly.  I was getting frustrated with my 250 after only having it for a month.

So it's up to you...... my guess is that for long distance riding and luggage-carrying, neither of these will fit the bill.  They're both great to start on.  See what kind of prices you can get.  You'll probably feel safer and less exposed on the 500.

[mugwump58]

Hepco and Becker does have racks for hard bags for the 500. 30 l cases look the best.

[scottzilla]

The SV650 is a better bike in many ways, and can be had cheap in the used market.  It's capable enough that it will continue to be fun to ride even as you become more experienced.
Given the choice between a 500R and SV650, I would take the 650 with no hesitation.

[servicerifle]

The SV650 is a better bike in many ways, and can be had cheap in the used market.  It's capable enough that it will continue to be fun to ride even as you become more experienced.
Given the choice between a 500R and SV650, I would take the 650 with no hesitation.

Agreed.

[Zerosum]

I too would suggest the 500 over the 250, no question.  You'd be wringing the 250s neck non-stop.  

Given the obvious consideration and maturity that you're approaching this with, I'd say that you might be a little over-cautious in the way you're limiting your choices.  Any of the Suzuki or Kawasaki 650 twins would be great too.  BC is pretty mountainous... you'll probably appreciate having the extra torque.  I own a V-Strom 650.  The power that bike makes is very easy to control.  Very linear, no abrupt torque at low RPM, decent mid-range power.  (The SV is a little faster, but it's basically the same, power-wise.)  If you took a ride on one, you probalby wouldn't consider a 650 twin to be "too much power."  It's perfectly adequate for mature, grown-up riding, IMO.

If you can swing it price-wise, I'd look at the Ninja 650R over the 500.  Water-cooled, lighter, more power, modern radial tires, better looking.  I've read from numerous people that that engine gets absurd gas mileage.  If you want to keep the cost down, you could also look for a Yamaha Seca II 600 or a Suzuki Bandit 600.

[scottzilla]

I too would suggest the 500 over the 250, no question.  You'd be wringing the 250s neck non-stop.  

Given the obvious consideration and maturity that you're approaching this with, I'd say that you might be a little over-cautious in the way you're limiting your choices.  Any of the Suzuki or Kawasaki 650 twins would be great too.  BC is pretty mountainous... you'll probably appreciate having the extra torque.  I own a V-Strom 650.  The power that bike makes is very easy to control.  Very linear, no abrupt torque at low RPM, decent mid-range power.  (The SV is a little faster, but it's basically the same, power-wise.)  If you took a ride on one, you probalby wouldn't consider a 650 twin to be "too much power."  It's perfectly adequate for mature, grown-up riding, IMO.

If you can swing it price-wise, I'd look at the Ninja 650R over the 500.  Water-cooled, lighter, more power, modern radial tires, better looking.  I've read from numerous people that that engine gets absurd gas mileage.  If you want to keep the cost down, you could also look for a Yamaha Seca II 600 or a Suzuki Bandit 600.

The 500 is water cooled, light and has radial tires.  It is an old design though.

[M]

Both bikes, the EX250 & the EX500, are good bikes to start out on.

As a new rider, you might want to check out this page which is intended for new riders.

You'll have no problem doing IBA rides on a Ninja 250. Here are a couple of the ones I've done, including a BunBurner Gold:

http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic.php?t=71351

http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic.php?t=68378

Your 'friend' who claims that his modded 250 is as fast as a 650R is full of &^%#!@  

The EX250 puts out 26-28bhp. The EX500 puts out about 53bhp. The 650R puts out about 65bhp. The limit to power increase on an EX250 is about 32-33bhp, without $$$$$ engine modifications.

As for modifications, the best one out there is rider training. It'll help you appreciate the cycle and ride it proficiently.

As for luggage, for persons to think that the EX250 or EX500 can't handle as much luggage as other cycles is off-base. Here's an example of one of my 250s, on an IBA ride (Why, AZ to Whynot, NC - 6 days, 4,5000 miles) with full gear.



FWIW, I've also owned an '07 650R for three years. It is the replacement for when the EX500 is finally retired.

[ScottB]

Are you absolutely sure you want to pass over the 650s for now?  The Kawasakis (650R, Versys and ER-6N) are great bikes, get some great mileage and I know of several people who've purchased one as their first bike and found them to be exceptionally enjoyable and not overwhelming in the slightest.  In a recent Motorcyclist magazine, they tested an ER-6N as a beginner's bike and loved it! (although, yes, I know, magazines can be full of crap).

Otherwise, personally, I have to say I'd go with an SV650, as echoed here.  It's another bike you can learn easily on due to it's size, handling and power, and really, it's one of the greatest bikes of all time.  Or, as you mentioned, the Wee Strom.  I have to agree with you about it's styling, but I have had significant seat time on a DL1000 and that is one of the more comfortable bikes I've had the pleasure to ride.

To offer some perspective, I went straight from my MSF course to a brand spanking new Tiger 1050.  While I don't know that I'd reccomend my approach (you can learn a lot in retrospect), it really doesn't take that long to adjust to power, using your throttle properly, braking technique, etc.  Even if you're into Iron Butt, you might want to rethink your stance on 650's and then consider a track day!  

Otherwise, I'd get the 500.

[scottzilla]

Another thing about the 500R...
I know for a fact that 5-7 HP can be extracted from the motor by rejetting.  I saw this with numerous bikes on a dyno.

The 500R has very narrow bars.  They are almost ackward, so sit on a few and see if you like them.
The 500R has a better seat than the SV650.  IMO, the 500's seat can stay on the bike a while, the SV650 will have you checking the Corbin/Sargent catalogs in a hurry.
Both have really extensive aftermarket accessories and upgrades.
The 500R suspension is kind of weak for sport riding but would probably be just fine for touring.  It's quite plush.

I'd buy an SV650.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've got a 250 in the garage, and it does a great job of hauling my 6'5", 225 ass around. Granted, this is my wife's bike, but I wouldn't hesitate to have a 250 as the only bike. It's a great amount of fun on a twisty road.

[Justin]

I'd say go with the 250.. I'm a firm believer that you will be a better rider if you start on a very small and light bike. You can always sell it and upgrade when you are ready.

[bogfro]

I'll echo some of the comments on here, that some of the physically larger 650's twins would probably work well for you.  They've got good engines, have room for luggage, etc.  I've got both the Strom 650 and the SV650, and for long distance comfort the Strom is the definite winner.  You might want to check out the Versys, ER6-n, Ninja 650, Strom 650, SV650, etc.

I really don't see how the people on here who go cross-country on a 250 can do it.  I had to wring that thing's neck to get it to go.  I'd never try that loaded down with luggage!

[Squijummonkey]

I started on a 250, but quickly grew tired of its lack of power going up hills, it's cramped ergos (6'0" 170 lbs), and it's lack of luggage.  If you're wanting to tour though, you're in a tough spot, because even the 500 probably doesn't have room to hook up a bunch of hard bags to it.  But you'd probably grow tired of the 500 less quickly.  I was getting frustrated with my 250 after only having it for a month.

So it's up to you...... my guess is that for long distance riding and luggage-carrying, neither of these will fit the bill.  They're both great to start on.  See what kind of prices you can get.  You'll probably feel safer and less exposed on the 500.

The 500 has a ton of room to hook up luggage. Currently I'm using the Cortech saddle and tail bag system and there's plenty more room for hook ups: (Because my pictures are on my broken computer, I have them posted in another topic on the 500)

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,36247.0.html

The bags were about $300 for all three, whereas hard bags cost something like $3000; you're paying for over half of the bike in hard bags already...it's not worth it.

[mugwump58]

This is the place to go for 500 info:
http://www.ex-500.com/

I'm biased, I have an 06 that's just getting broke in with 48 +K miles.

Look up FOG's post regarding mods on the EX he is umm revered if you can get passed his occasional gruffness,  I couldn't spell curmudgeonenlyness.

Good hard bags will go on other bikes, only the rack is model specific. Nothing beats nice hard bags. $3,000.00 ?

[UHOH]

I am 5'11", 180lbs, am not mechanically inclined ... and would definitely want adequate power to fly uphill,
having to watch to keep from drawing radar ire even when ascending steep long climbs.

[and you're talking about Iron Buttstuff...]

So would the 250r be enough for me for a good while?  

... being blunt, NO, NO - forget the 250

get the SV650 like several of the posters mentioned,
they are also bullet proof.  

[Squijummonkey]

Good hard bags will go on other bikes, only the rack is model specific. Nothing beats nice hard bags. $3,000.00 ?

  I guess I was thinking of those beetle bags from Corbin. I'm sure there are less expensive ones out there.

[birdrunner]

I'd go for a KLR............ sorry, but I think it'd be just a blast hitting the forestry roads around around Merrit and Hope.

[Rusty the Scoob]

I went straight from a 50cc scooter to the SV650 with few problems.  I even rode about 200 miles on the SV before taking the MSF course.   For learning, I just kept the RPMs low.  I found the power band once early on and said "wow, that's cool.  NOT going to do that again for a while though"   Seriously, it's a very controllable bike.  

Yes, you could get yourself into trouble on it if you tried, but if you take the mature, cautious approach, the bike won't get you into trouble.

[Poustman]

Great responses, everyone!  Thanks very much.

I'm very encouraged by the comments on the SV650, which I find one of the most physically attractive bikes out there.  There's an electric blue one I see on the roads here fairly regularly, and a yellow one in town as well I've noticed, and I find it hard not to gawk-- even more than with other bikes I see.  (There is also an F800ST in our townhouse complex, with full hard bags-- lovely!)

I'm also delighted to hear that many have found the 250r to be quite able to handle the duties-- though others feel it takes some flogging to do so.  

The one comment on the KLR was shrewd:  I do like the dual sport idea very much (I happen to have had a F800GS as wallpaper for a good while-- the dual sport with styling I like best in that category) though the sport styling and desire to do longer paved road rides speaks loudly.

I appreciate the many points of input; it is good to get the sense that just about any bike is going to be a great deal of fun once a rider settles on that particular mount.  The process of choosing is fun, too!  

I like it here .

[njd]

Well I'm slightly biased, but my vote would go for the ex500. Especially over the sv650. I think the sv650 is NOT a good beginner bike. Can a beginner learn on it and do ok? Sure. But there is a lot more potential for trouble on it. The ex500 is a very capable lightweight standard/sport bike.

I recently added bar risers to mine, plus this


I have a powerbronze flip touring windshield on its way, and I'm thinking of adding thicker grips.

Oh and this was my second bike.

[mugwump58]

I like it here .

Abandon all hope, for ye are lost.  

[brianm767]

My daughters first bike at age 16 was a Ninja 500, and she did great on it, went with the 500 over the 250 because we got a great deal on it, if fit my daughter perfectly, power was fine for a neewbie, and we didn't want to replace the 250 after a few months of riding,   we also had a Ninja 250 here for a couple of years, stored, it and maintained it for my wife's good friend, the whole family rode it every week.

Yes the Ninja 250 is a great  learning bike, probably the best learning bike out there, but in my opinion, if you can handle the weight of a Ninja 500, I'd go with it, what we found with the Ninja 250 is , yes it's a great learning bike, but to me, it's underpowered, fine for a newbie putting around town , and yes it will do over 100MPH, takes a while to get there, but when we would go for rides, and pull onto freeways,  especially with some one heavy , like me on the bike, 195lbs we didn't feel it had enough power to safely merge onto some of our short on ramps around here , had to wind it out to get up to merging speed, and if the traffic is hauling a$$, some times we felt it was even dangerous , didn't have enough power to avoid some situations.

The owner of the Ninja 250 was a female , probably  5' 3" and 120lbs, after a couple months on the bike, she wanted a bigger bike,  she said she just needed a bit more power , around town she felt fine, once up to cruising speeds she felt fine, but she too said it just didn't have enough to feel safe at merging, or getting out of some A holes way, and she said she had to just about red line it all the time to keep up with the flow of traffic

My daughters second bike at 17 was a SV650S, great bike, easy to ride, but a little torquey, had to be careful of that, and since it was a V Twin and has a lot of compression, when  down shifting, it was easy to lock the rear tire momentary when decelerating very quickly, fun for me, but a newbie needs to be aware of it and get used to it.

Many Die hard Ninja 250 fans will say, heck you don't know what your talking about, you don't know how to manage RPM's , I've done 125 MPH and toured the world on my Ninja 250 two up!! , it's all the power you'll ever need, and to them, I'm happy for you,  but for me, and every one in our family who rode the little Ninjette, we will all say, for a beginner bike, to learn the basics on, it is probably the best bike out there for that,  just be aware of it's limitations, and you'll be fine, but as every one here who rode it,  and as our local dealerships tells me, almost every one who starts on the Ninja 250, normally within less than a year, they are back and buying a Ninja 500, 650R or a SV650.

If you re looking for a bike to learn the basics on, and are planning on upgrading very soon, I'd go with a Ninja 250, if you are planning on keeping the first bike for a while, going on any tours or extended rides, carrying any extras, and can handle the weight of a Ninja 500 or maybe a 650R or SV650, I'd go that route, you will not out grow it in the first year.

If you want to tour , another great bike, that many tour on, is a Suzuki V Strom (Wee strom, 650cc) , same engine as the SV650, it is a bit tall, but very comfy, makes a great touring bike, has much better ergonomics, than a Ninja 500, 650r or a SV650naked or "S" model for long rides. also a Kawi Versey is a great bike for touring.

And as fas as your comment  about the KLR   ""  though the sport styling and the desire to do longer paved roads rides speaks loudly"",   well honestly it's the sport styling that makes the longer rides harder, trust me, I have over 100K miles on sport bikes in my life, from 600's to my Hayabusa's and Blackbirds, and it's the aggressive sport styling that makes them bad for long rides, a V Strom or Verseys or even KLR minus the vibes makes them much more comfortable on longer rides. but yes, sport bikes look good, but as with myself and many others, first thing we do to our sport bikes we want to tour on is put on taller screens , higher bars, lower pegs etcc to make them better for long hauls, more like a V Strom.

Daughters first bike,



Daughters second bike,the day she got it, and after we did a few mods to it, notice how high the bars are over the Clip ons, best mod ever.



Our friend and myself, giving her her first ride on her Ninja250, she out grew this bike in less than 5 months.

 
 Out of these bikes, if I was going to do long rides on one, I'd take the SV650S with handle bars and install some givi hard luggage.  if I was going to buy a bike in this class to do some Iron butt stuff, it I was tall enough for it, I'd buy a low mileage used V Strom.

[Poustman]

Thanks BrianM767-- that was a very helpful rundown.  And ScottB, I hadn't really ever considered the ER-6N-- I'd really sort of capped out sports bikes at 500cc.  But if the general feeling is that a mature approach makes them a reasonable choice for a beginner, I am happy to alter my thinking.

Perhaps I would benefit from looking more closely at the Wee.  When I say I'm not as big on its looks, I mean 'as compared to a pure sport-look'; I still like it well enough.  I suppose it has the added advantage of being very capable on gravel and dirt, though if I understand it, it isn't as much dirt-capable as the smaller, lighter dual sports...? I've sort of put it into the category of also-ran, thinking it was a dual sport that was weak on dirt, but if it is ok on dirt and excellent for longer asphalt rides, I need to repent.

I've heard tell that the 500r is also pretty secure on gravel roads; any thoughts on that, and/or on the SV650 on gravel?  I'm heeding the point birdrunner made earlier:  there are many wonderful fire and forest roads in BC that I know I'd like.  That's one reason I am haunted by the F800GS-- I love everything about that bike except the $$$, and it is the only dual-sport I recall seeing whose looks somehow perfectly work for me.  I've even done a great deal of research on the XT225, for goodness sakes, because the off-road opportunities around here are so great. The 225, though, is likely too slanted towards dirt work, leaving the longer asphalt a little wanting.  I know many feel it is fine, but I'm pretty sure I'd fine it too thin on slabs.

[njd]

I've done some light gravel roads on my ex500. I've never had any dirt/offroad experience ever in my life, so it was certainly scary. But the 500 handled it surprisingly well. You just can't let yourself get carried away.

I took my msf course on an xt250, and it was a blast to ride. If you're interested in some off road, maybe consider the versys? It has decent ground clearance and a nice big tank.

[UHOH]

I've heard tell that the 500r is also pretty secure on gravel roads; any thoughts on that, and/or on the SV650 on gravel?

traded off a naked SV650 vs WeeStrom on paved and then gravel forest service road in Oregon.
Both myself and the SV owner liked the SV better on both types of roads; SV had sport touring tires, nothing special.  
I was surprised, because of the rep of dual purpose bike being better for gravel.  Note: I go slowly on gravel roads.

The tall WeeStrom owner liked the WeeStrom better.

[Poustman]

I just saw a picture of a 2009 Wee in Orange.  Somehow the colour really changed the appearance:  seemed to add just the right spark.  Nice.

[brianm767]

IMOP, bottom line is, if you really want to ride dirt, none of the bikes mentioned are great, nor very good in the dirt, The Wee strom looks like a dirt bike, but I wouldn't take it on any thing other than nice clean fire roads, once again, IMOP it's only a matter of time before your going to go down in the dirt on these bikes with sport tourer tires,   I've had my ST1300 in the dirt, and as soon as it gets a little sandy or loose, it's scary! of course it weighs 700 lbs! now if I had a Wee Strom and I put some knobbys on it, then I'd feel pretty secure on the fire roads.

For dirt, I'd go with a bike like a KLR650 , BMX 650GS (very popular touring/mild dirt bike) Honda XR650L or some thing like that, if you do plan on allot of highway miles, and only smooth fire trails, and no serious off road stuff, maybe a Wee Strom with some off road tires, but sport tour or sport tires, on dirt, and it's only a matter of time before you and the dirt will become one.

   My ST at MT Shasta, this was a nice compacted fire road, and even it was spooky, street tires are just not made for this stuff.  

[Rusty the Scoob]

I just saw a picture of a 2009 Wee in Orange.  Somehow the colour really changed the appearance:  seemed to add just the right spark.  Nice.

Yep!  That really looks good!

[Zerosum]

Perhaps I would benefit from looking more closely at the Wee.  When I say I'm not as big on its looks, I mean 'as compared to a pure sport-look'; I still like it well enough.  I suppose it has the added advantage of being very capable on gravel and dirt, though if I understand it, it isn't as much dirt-capable as the smaller, lighter dual sports...? I've sort of put it into the category of also-ran, thinking it was a dual sport that was weak on dirt, but if it is ok on dirt and excellent for longer asphalt rides, I need to repent.

The V-Strom is pretty heavy for true dirt riding.  It's "dirt assets" are its wide handlebars, long suspension travel and 19" front wheel.  (Most street bikes have 17" wheels, the Strom has a 19" front and a 17" rear.)  So the Strom is good at absorbing decent-sized bumps.  Speed bumps do not exist when you're on a Wee Strom.    You can roll right over a curb on it if you know what you're doing.  The stock Bridgestone Trailwing tires are good on the street, okay in gravel and sand, but utterly SUCK in mud.  Mud + Trailwings = dropped bike.

BUT, in the end, it's a street bike with dirt bike features.  It's heavy, and the plastic fairings are the first "point of contact" with the ground.  Also, the exhaust pipes, oil cooler and oil fliter are hanging out in the open below the motor.  Scraping those on a log would ruin your day.  Of course, you can spend ~$500 to "up-armour" the bike with crash bars and a belly plate.  But for me, a good rule of thumb is: Don't take it anywhere you wouldn't take a pickup truck.  But then, I'm not much of a dirt rider.

As for it's street capabilities, it's great on bumpy urban streets and rural backroads.  Plenty of pep though the low and mid-range RPMs.  IMO, It can be ridden every bit as hard as any other 650 twin.  It is comfortable on long distances, but the stock seat will have you stopping every 100 miles or so.  On the highway, it is a little bit of a dog.  It'll cruise at ~75-80 mph all day long, but you're reving the thing at about 6K RPM (60% of redline) non-stop, which is a little tiresome.   A lot of guys replace the stock 15-tooth front sprocket with a 16-tooth, which lowers the engine speed by about 500 RPM in every gear --> less torque, more relaxed highway riding.  Other guys go the OTHER way and install a 14-tooth for more torque and worse highway performance.

Here's how mine is set up.  She's pretty much fully outfitted at this point.  I'd like a better seat and a better windshield, but that's about it.

[Marcster]

My :

I took the Beginner's MSF course in May '08 having never been on a bike before.

September '08 I bought a Kymco 250 scooter (twist and go) and rode it for 800 safe, accident-free miles.  I took the Experienced MSF course on it back in April '09.

I just traded the scooter in on a Yamaha Diversion (it's a Seca II) on August 1, 2009.  A docile beginner's/commuter's bike, makes about 61 hp vs. the 18.4 hp the scooter had.  I've put about 1500 miles on it in two months (going to the Eastern ST.N rally was a big part of that).  I've also dumped it twice on the right side (at a stop the first time and at about 2 mph this last time).    This last time, my foot was pinned underneath the 400 lb. bike.

If you have never ridden before, I'd strongly recommend a used bike that's been around the block a few times...  A Ninja 500r or a Suzuki GS500f would be a great choice:



The GS500f makes a little less hp than the Ninja 500r, but it doesn't sound like you want to ring every last horse out of the engine anyway, so I think it would be fine for you.

Or, you could go the route I did and look for a Seca II or a Suzuki Bandit 600 (they're pretty comparable).

But based on my experience, I wouldn't recommend sinking a whole lot of money into a first bike (Versys, V-Strom, etc.)

One other thing, soft bags aren't secure like hard bags (and they aren't inherently waterproof, but I use Ziploc's XL-sized Big Bags inside to hold my clothes and stuff), they are much, much cheaper and usually transferable from bike to bike (unless you completely switch styles and go to a cruiser, for instance).  The Big Bags were perfect -- I rode up to the rally in pouring rain and my stuff was completely dry.

My bike with soft bags:



One last thing...  Engine guards or frame sliders.  Get 'em.  Much cheaper than replacing broken engine parts.  Best $45 I ever spent (ebay, new-old-stock).

[Poustman]

More food for thought!  I'd never heard of the Suzuki GS500f-- there are so many bikes out there, we newbs can miss some good ones.  Big hp isn't crucial for me-- esp. to start with.

The KLR is a possibility.  It is relatively inexpensive, tough enough to go anywhere, has a good cachet in terms of the feel (utility-cool factor).  I can definitely see why so many riders have more than one bike:  the tractor-like off-road specialist makes you feel unstoppable (overused, I know) and the impossibly cool spaceship sport bike incinerates the miles.

Was checking out the Varadero on the Honda.ca site yesterday.  From what I understand it is highly capable offroad, though much heavier than the KLR.  I get the sense it is a V-Strom/Versys competitor, and probably better in dirt.

On the bright side, am job hunting, so since I can't afford a bike at the moment I have plenty of time to savour considering the options.  (This is transparently me talking myself through resisting temptation to buy before it is prudent!)

[njd]

More food for thought!  I'd never heard of the Suzuki GS500f-- there are so many bikes out there, we newbs can miss some good ones.  Big hp isn't crucial for me-- esp. to start with.

The KLR is a possibility.  It is relatively inexpensive, tough enough to go anywhere, has a good cachet in terms of the feel (utility-cool factor).  I can definitely see why so many riders have more than one bike:  the tractor-like off-road specialist makes you feel unstoppable (overused, I know) and the impossibly cool spaceship sport bike incinerates the miles.

Was checking out the Varadero on the Honda.ca site yesterday.  From what I understand it is highly capable offroad, though much heavier than the KLR.  I get the sense it is a V-Strom/Versys competitor, and probably better in dirt.

On the bright side, am job hunting, so since I can't afford a bike at the moment I have plenty of time to savour considering the options.  (This is transparently me talking myself through resisting temptation to buy before it is prudent!)

The klr is a great choice. Though it is tall, so beware of that. And also it is single cylinder, so it will be buzzy, will vibrate a lot, and will be loud. I don't know too much about the varadero as they don't have them here in the US. I'm assuming you're talking about teh 125cc version, which to me seems way underpowered.

[Marcster]

The predecessor to the Suzuki GS500f was the GS500:



Same basic bike, just without the plastic cladding (and cheaper 'cause it's older).  The bike above is VIVID1's (another member here on ST.N).  Here is a thread about the Suzuki GS500f/GS500:

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php?topic=34215.0%3Ball

We never got the Varadero, but the pictures sure do remind me of the BMW GS650 Funduro (another good choice):



Good luck on the job search.

[Poustman]

Thanks for the wishes re:  job search.  Have been about 3 weeks now at a new job selling high end used trucks and SUVs-- enjoying it so far.

Found an ad for a 1985 kawasaki ninja zx900 - $1000(Canadian).  Looked up this bike online, might be a bit big for a beginner.  Any thoughts?  It looks to be in nice shape from the pictures, but does need a new left hand muffler stay (stay,muffler,LH) which the seller says is 266.00cad.

(The guy in the picture is the current owner.)

[Marcster]

Thanks for the wishes re:  job search.  Have been about 3 weeks now at a new job selling high end used trucks and SUVs-- enjoying it so far.

Found an ad for a 1985 kawasaki ninja zx900 - $1000(Canadian).  Looked up this bike online, might be a bit big for a beginner.  Any thoughts?  It looks to be in nice shape from the pictures, but does need a new left hand muffler stay (stay,muffler,LH) which the seller says is 266.00cad.

A couple of thoughts, but bear in mind that I'm a newbie myself:
(1) That's going to have crazy fast acceleration in first gear.  Not warp speed like a modern 1000cc super-sport, but probably pretty darn close to a modern 600cc s-s.
(2) It has 115 bhp!  I have 61 hp (probably only 52 at the rear wheel) and even that is more than plenty for a newbie.  You get lazy and drop the clutch, just once, on this ZX900 in first and there will be problems! Ponder this: the ZX900 has more than twice the hp of the Ninja 500r and just 2hp shy of three times the hp of the Ninja 250.
(2) It's 25 years old.  Rubber bits are going to be dry and/or worn out.  Parts may be a challenge.
(3) Since it's a 900cc bike, it might be a little heavy for a learner bike, especially at parking lot speeds.
(4) The angle on that muffler's mount is going to limit you to just a soft tailbag (no saddlebags). 
(5) I don't know if you could find a mount for a topcase, you would have to rig something up.
(6) Canadian m/c insurance is a bit different from American m/c insurance, but you should definitely get a quote first, might be in for quite a shock.
(7) You mentioned that gas mileage was important in your opening post -- smaller bikes are going to be more frugal in that regard.

I also recall from your opening post in this thread that you aren't all that handy.  A 25 year old super-sport is bound to need some attention on an ongoing basis.

I hope I don't sound like a downer, but this bike would probably make a better track day bike for an experienced rider.  

Just my thought, but this bike is the opposite of what you have said that you want in a bike.

[ANZAC]

The GPz900 Ninja is a great bike but hard on the wrists due to the riding position.  Must get used to keeping the arms bent at the elbow and all the Master Yoda stuff.  I had a 1986 too and sold it after a few months for the Nighthawk.  It was like night and day.

I would go with the Ninja 500.  My daughter is 17 and she wants one too.  She rides my 1986 Nighthawk very well but it's a little on the heavy side for her.  

Another bike is the Honda NT650 Hawk.

Check C-list and you will find lots of sweet deals.

[birdrunner]

Not an good beginner bike.

Too much power,  frame not stiff enough to handle engine,  at 25 yrs old, it will need some maintenance.

Spending a few bucks more, and getting a smaller bike will get you a better bike.

[Poustman]

Wise points-- I confess the tricolor dazzled me and reason only now is reasserting.  Thanks for the prudent input!

[Marcster]

Wise points-- I confess the tricolor dazzled me and reason only now is reasserting.  Thanks for the prudent input!

That's what we're all here for...

Just to reiterate, there are two classes of bikes that have a low purchase cost/high rate of return when resold:

(1) Entry level bikes
(2) Dual-sport bikes

If you have any interest at all, dual-sports have a very low cost of ownership and because they are single cylinder bikes they also are going to have the lowest maintenance costs (and be easiest to learn to wrench on if you would like to learn).  They also (at least in the US) tend to have the lowest insurance cost.

A dual-sport can eat any fire trail or dirt road for breakfast (you meantioned the Wee-strom and the Versys in your opening post).

birdrunner suggested a Kawasaki KLR, but there is also the Suzuki DR650 and DR-Z400s (or an old Suzuki DR350).  

Honda has the XR650L, but it is definitely geared towards more dirt riding than the Kawasaki or Suzuki offerings.  

The KLR is going to be the most roadworthy from the get-go, is the most popular, and has the most aftermarket goodies, but it's certainly not anything you couldn't do with a Honda or Suzuki.

The DR650 and the DR350 are both air cooled, so there is one less thing that could go wrong (and no coolant to change).

All of the Big Four also make a dual sport in the 250cc range too...  Smaller and more dual sports bikes are easier to control offroad.

[njd]

Dual sports also have CHEAAAAP insurance compared to something like a Sv650.

[Marcster]

Dual sports also have CHEAAAAP insurance compared to something like a Sv650.

I am *SERIOUSLY* considering a DR650 as my next bike.  For many reasons, but insurance would be slightly less than half my Diversion.

It also pays to shop around for insurance -- for some reason, Progressive wants $50/year more than I am spending if I replaced the Diversion with a KLR.

In terms of raw horsepower, the stock KLR has fewer ponies than the DR650. Weird...

[Zerosum]

I am *SERIOUSLY* considering a DR650 as my next bike....

  NOW you are one of us!  You've had your bike 3 months and you're already planning on the next one!

Peronally, I'd go w/ the KLR650.  It's just cooler.  I'm not basing that on any technical data, I just like the fact that it's green and that its model designation says KILLER.  It looks much more "post-apocalyptic" than the DR.

[Marcster]

  NOW you are one of us!  You've had your bike 3 months and you're already planning on the next one!

Peronally, I'd go w/ the KLR650.  It's just cooler.  I'm not basing that on any technical data, I just like the fact that it's green and that its model designation says KILLER.  It looks much more "post-apocalyptic" than the DR.

LOL...  I'd *REALLY* like an old BMW Funduro, but owners seem to think theirs are worth more than I think is appropriate.  As to whether I would get a KLR or a DR650 (or a DR-Z400s) would probably come down to what is the best deal at the time.

[UHOH]

Dual sports also have CHEAAAAP insurance compared to something like a Sv650, which is already pretty cheap.

completed your thought...

[OrangeSVS]

I started on an SV650S. As for a beginning bike, it's sort of a zen thing. If you think you need that much (or more) power, then it's too much for you. But if you are leaning away from it because of its excess power, then it may be a good choice for you. It's in a nice sweet spot there.

The only problem is, where do you go from there? I stepped down to a CB-1 (400 cc) when the (now-ex)gf was learning to ride and while it was "fine", it wasn't as much fun as the SV (though it was a better learning bike, just as I'm sure a Ninja 250 would be).

So are you looking to have a bike? Or are you looking to progress to a fire breather? If you are looking to progress, starting with the 250 is fine. But if you just want to ride any damn thing you can and not stop or fuss, then look at the 650.

[Zerosum]

completed your thought...

Seriously.  Insurance is a MINOR cost compared to everything else.  All three of my bikes cost me like $297/year, and that's with collision & comprehensive coverage on the V-Strom.    It's like $8 per month per bike.

[jrw600]

Seriously.  Insurance is a MINOR cost compared to everything else.  All three of my bikes cost me like $297/year, and that's with collision & comprehensive coverage on the V-Strom.    It's like $8 per month per bike.

Poustman is in BC Canada which has required govt basic insurance for years. Motorcycle insurance is ridiculously expensive. The insurance company does not care if the bike is supersport or dualsport it all comes down to the size of the motor. The breakdown is (approx) 100cc to 400cc, then 401cc to 750cc, then 750cc to1000cc etc. The rate jumps about 50% per rate class. I currently have my W650 insured. It costs almost $550C for basic, no collision or comp and I have 30 years of experience with no accidents ever and my last ticket was 20 years ago. I qualify for the higest rate reduction of 45%.If not for the discount I would be paying $980C. For a 50 hp bike! My VFR 800 costs $780 with my discount as it is in the next higher rate group. It would be $1400 with no discount.
My point is the 250cc would cost about $300 if he qualifies for the discount versus $550 if chooses to go with a 500cc(or up to 750cc) bike.
Having said all that I would , however, recommend a Ninja 500. In Vancouver you find that the Ninja 500 is usually not much higher priced than a similar year Ninja 250. The 650 Ninja is a good alternative as well, but it is taller than either the 250 or 500 and more money. Someone mentioned the Bandit 600, that would be a good choice if he can find one.

[Marcster]

Poustman is in BC Canada which has required govt basic insurance for years. Motorcycle insurance is ridiculously expensive. The insurance company does not care if the bike is supersport or dualsport it all comes down to the size of the motor. The breakdown is (approx) 100cc to 400cc, then 401cc to 750cc, then 750cc to1000cc etc. The rate jumps about 50% per rate class. I currently have my W650 insured. It costs almost $550C for basic, no collision or comp and I have 30 years of experience with no accidents ever and my last ticket was 20 years ago. I qualify for the higest rate reduction of 45%.If not for the discount I would be paying $980C. For a 50 hp bike! My VFR 800 costs $780 with my discount as it is in the next higher rate group. It would be $1400 with no discount.
My point is the 250cc would cost about $300 if he qualifies for the discount versus $550 if chooses to go with a 500cc(or up to 750cc) bike.
Having said all that I would , however, recommend a Ninja 500. In Vancouver you find that the Ninja 500 is usually not much higher priced than a similar year Ninja 250. The 650 Ninja is a good alternative as well, but it is taller than either the 250 or 500 and more money. Someone mentioned the Bandit 600, that would be a good choice if he can find one.

Did Canada get the Suzuki Bandit 400?  Based on your approximate insurance classes, that might give the OP the largest engine size for the smallest insurance cost.

The Bandit 400 does have a very low seat height at 30.3", I'm sure our 5'11" 180 lb. OP could flat-foot it easily, but if it was too low would be up to him.  The seat on my Diversion is low so I added 1/2" by adding the beaded seat cover.



Review: http://downwardspiral.net/motorcycle/re_bandit.php

[jrw600]

Did Canada get the Suzuki Bandit 400?  Based on your approximate insurance classes, that might give the OP the largest engine size for the smallest insurance cost.

The Bandit 400 does have a very low seat height at 30.3", I'm sure our 5'11" 180 lb. OP could flat-foot it easily, but if it was too low would be up to him.  The seat on my Diversion is low so I added 1/2" by adding the beaded seat cover.


Review: http://downwardspiral.net/motorcycle/re_bandit.php

Yep, but only for a couple years. We also got the CB-1 in 89-90, and the FZR400(I bought one new) for a few years in the late 80's. Because of the limited supply of these bikes prices are high. Like close to $3000 for a decent one. There is also a local shop that specializes in bringing in 400cc or smaller bikes but their prices are stupid expensive and I have heard mixed reviews on the shop itself.

[jfurf]

Ninja 250s are fantastic, fun bikes, but you've got to be a breed apart if you're gonna do much touring on them. Not saying it can't be done, but most of us simply wouldn't enjoy it very much.

Good noob-friendly bikes that can be toured on more comfortably:

Kawasaki Versys
Ducati Monster 600/695/696
Suz SV650
BMW F650GS
Kawasaki Er-6n (fairly new model, though)
Suz Bandit 400/600

Personally I like the BMW because it's so tour-friendly. Most come with factory luggage.

[Marcster]

Ninja 250s are fantastic, fun bikes, but you've got to be a breed apart if you're gonna do much touring on them. Not saying it can't be done, but most of us simply wouldn't enjoy it very much.

Good noob-friendly bikes that can be toured on more comfortably:

Kawasaki Versys
Ducati Monster 600/695/696
Suz SV650
BMW F650GS
Kawasaki Er-6n (fairly new model, though)
Suz Bandit 400/600

Just to add to your "Good noob-friendly bikes that can be toured on more comfortably" list:

Yamaha Seca II/Diversion (my bike!)
Ninja 500
Suzuki GS500 and GS500f (I posted a pic of one all decked out for touring on the last page)
Kawasaki KLR650 (though you may want to upgrade the seat)

But in all honesty, any bike can be toured on:

Yamaha C3, a 50cc scooter -- how about 2-up 4500km (3000 mile) tour across Canada:
http://scootercanada.weebly.com/index.html
(let's not even get into the fact that the C3 is a one-person machine)

1moreroad just toured on a WR250X: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,45819.0.html

And CultureSlayer goes everywhere on her Ninja 250.

It all depends on your needs/expectations/requirements.

[Mrs. Leanintree]

My 1st bike-Honda CRF-230 street legalized, fun, didn't kill me if I had a wrist spasm. 2nd bike 1987 Honda Hurricane, better than the the CRF but still has it's assorted problems, doesn't handle steep climbs over mtn passes. But it is road worthy and that's more than I can say for the CRF. The Hurricane rides nice on the road, has a touring sprocket. OK seat position. Seat height to foot pegs is actually a little short, my knees get pretty sore by the end of a full day. Hoping in a couple years I can upgrade to something a little more settled on long road trips.

[Rial]

picture of ninja zx250 from kawasaki motor indonesia.

[GoGreen]

Okay, for what it's worth here's my two cents:
My first bike was a Ninja 500ex and I loved it! Easy to manouver, comfortable position, enough power to pass quickly when needed, and the gas milage was superb. In fact, I was reluctant to get a different bike but hard luggage and an appropriate rack was hard to come by and I want to tour. So I moved up to a 2009 Ninja 650R and find it even better than the 500, first time I rode it off the lot (a great memory) I was thinking Wow! Made up for my emotional departure from my silver Kwaker. Which is for sale, just for you! Seriously, I am finding it to be a great bike, put a quick 1000k on it in the first week I had it. Handles great and really gives a lot of confidence to a new rider (that's me, just started May 2009) but has plenty of power to keep up with the pack. Flickable in twisties if that's your thing, and comfortable for the long haul. That being said, the Ninja 250R is a great bike, my brother has one and loves it, but he lives in the big city and as a commuter it is great but for longer trips...probably would be fine, depending on your size. My brother is 5'11 and 190lbs, looks a bit out of place on a smaller bike. Not that you want something huge for a first bike but you don't want to be thinking about another right away, do you? Now the SV650 is a good bike, but keep in mind the riding position puts a lot more weight on your wrists, while the Ninja has you more upright. My hubby went for a long tour this summer and one of the guys rode a SV650 and could hardly move at the end of the day! And this guy is in really good shape too, just that riding position got a little crampy after a bit. IMO with the Ninja 500ex or 650R you can't go wrong, maybe I am biased, so read some reviews, do some research and then go buy one! Happy trails!

[Marcster]

Now the SV650 is a good bike, but keep in mind the riding position puts a lot more weight on your wrists, while the Ninja has you more upright. My hubby went for a long tour this summer and one of the guys rode a SV650 and could hardly move at the end of the day! And this guy is in really good shape too, just that riding position got a little crampy after a bit.

Welcome to the forum, GoGreen!

I think you mean the SV650S has a cramped position, not the SV650. They are two very different bikes powered by the same engine. 

SV650S = clip-ons with a sportbike-like riding position (and a small fairing):



SV650 = standard handlebar with a very neutral riding position (naked, no fairing):

[bogfro]

If you're looking for a naked SV650, I've got one for sale.  

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,47692.0.html

[GoGreen]

Markster, Oh, yup, you got me there, I did mean the SV650S,   thanks for the clarification.Guess you need a windscreen for the naked bike, unless you like getting blasted!

[cultureslayer]

How did I not post here earlier?  

I have had 180lbs on my 250 and done 800+ mile days.  With a modified seat I found it far more comfortable than my 636 due to the better ergos.  It's an option, but if you like to be lazy with shifting and pack a lot the 500 might be a better choice for you.  Just depends on what you want.  It's probably worth trying the 250 for a year.  If you are careful buying you can sell it for almost what you paid, and who doesn't like having an almost free year of riding?

[silentorder]

mine is a 2004 zzr600 and i couldnt be happier! woot

[Rial]

try Bajaj pulsar 200 dts-i.. its an confortable motorcycle.. because I'm using it in here..  

[Rial]

here is my pulsar. i just give u another alternative bikes.. fuel consumption of pulsar is 1:40

[Poustman]

Well I am pretty excited; I just registered for Action Motorcycle School in Langley for mid-May. Got my learner's back in fall, so am taking it sedately!

I'm weighing the Ninja 500 or 650 vs the SV650  and feel that I probably can't go far wrong. The Suzuki's looks really work for me, so it might be a bit ahead. Someone recently warned about long wait time for Kawa parts, but that seems like an unlikely problem to me.

I haven't entirely eliminated the Ninja250, but its fading...

[falconati]

You'll be fine with any of the bikes you mentioned in your post  

Just look for a good deal on Craigslist, and pull the trigger.

PS post up after you go to motorcycle school! I have 4 friends all enrolled in the same basic riding school, and so I'd love to hear if maybe there was something you would have liked to know before going to class, so that I can help out my friends

[Poustman]

What about a BMW F800GS?  I've been taken by them for a good while, and the dual-sport capabilities are attractive.  My understanding of the 800 motor (in the GS and ST) is that it is quite easy to control.  A shame the BMWs are so expensive, and hard to find used, though.

[Marcster]

What about a BMW F800GS?  I've been taken by them for a good while, and the dual-sport capabilities are attractive.  My understanding of the 800 motor (in the GS and ST) is that it is quite easy to control.  A shame the BMWs are so expensive, and hard to find used, though.

Why not look for a BMW F650 (a.k.a. Funduro) or the F650GS or an Aprilia Pegaso?  They are all powered by what is supposed to be the smoothest single-cylinder bike ever and should be available for far less money than an F800GS (though the Pegaso does hold it's value better than it should because of it's rarity).

I was after a Funduro myself when I ended up buying my Yamaha.

[Poustman]

Reread this thread, looking forward to the motorcycle course in May.  The sunshine that we're getting here these days is making riding more attractive than ever!

[JimNtexas]

My first bike ( after a 30 year break) was a Ninja 250.  After taking the MSF I quickly determined that I wanted either a Ninja 250 or Ninja 500.  I'm short and fat, and wanted a bike that I could flatfoot.  Cruisers did not then or now hold any interest for me.

I found two Ninjas for sale in my price range, a 250 and a 500.  I went with the 250 mainly because of the lower price.  I wasn't really sure how much I'd like riding and didn't want to spend more than I had too.  I'd heard many stories of people paying list for motorcycles only to sell them at a steep discount a year latter with 500 miles on the odometer because the reality was less than the dream for them.

I quickly found that really enjoyed long touring, I enjoyed spending a whole day on the bike.  The 250's performance was adequate even hauling my 250lbs.  I've done many 500+ mile days on my 250, and one SS1000.  

I strongly prefer the 'Gen 1' Ninja 250 (pre 2008) for touring.  The motors are pretty the same, but the Gen 1 ergos are more upright, more 'UJM'.  The Gen 2 has race replica styling, but the only significant mechanical difference is 17 inches wheels as opposed to the 16 inch Gen 1 wheels.  

If I knew then what I know now I probably would have paid the extra money for a 500ex, mainly for the ability to carry real hard bags. Saddle and tank bags are fine, but there is a lot of utility in lockable hard bags when one is traveling.  As far as I know its very difficult to mount hard bags on Ninja 250.

Don't plan on 'hot-rodding' a Ninja 250.  That's just ridiculous, the little motor was hot-rodded for you by Kawi-San.  Trying to add horsepower is just throwing away reliability for no gain.

I recently added an FJR to the garage, but I still ride and enjoy my 250 a lot.

If you decide to go with a newer bike consider the Yamaha FZ6R.  I've test rode one, and its a mini-FJR in a lot of ways. It has upright ergos and a very silky smooth inline 4 engine and excellent transmission.  You can get hard bags for it.

[KodiakRS]

I was in your position about a year ago and ended up getting a ninja650r.  I've been very happy with the choice.  Other than the "OMG it's my first ride on my own motorcycle" jitters I never felt intimidated or afraid of the bike.  I've done everything from commuting to 300 mile days, which isn't much but at 6'4 and 270lbs is no small feat.  After about 2000 miles I put on some lower bars which give it a much more sporty feel but sacrificed a bit of comfort.  I can flat foot the bike with tons of room to spare so even at your height it shouldn't be an issue.  Despite it being learner friendly, comfortable, and generally viewed as a wannabe super sport the thing can haul some serious ass if you ask it to.      

Having said that, if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now I would give some serious consideration to the SV.

Just my .02$

[Poustman]

Long time since I originally started this thread; I've taken my time, read many comments/threads/reviews, and have pretty much settled on an SV650.  Hoping to obtain one this spring.

Thanks to all for your comments; some things need to gestate, and hopefully the patience will prove to have been productive of a good decision.

[OrangeSVS]

The SV is a cool choice. You can get your fill of inline twins or I4's down the line.

If you start on an SV, I will say this.. 2, 3, or 5 bikes later.. you're gonna have an itch for another water-cooled V-twin powerplant.. and not much else is going to scratch that itch. It's a very cool and unique motor.

The fact that you dismissed the SV for its power tells me you should be able to handle it as a first bike (just be patient and very careful).... it WILL be a little bit of a handful, but it seems designed to be steady and manageable, not tweaky, peaky, and finicky like a supersport. There's not many surprises on the SV. It does what you ask it and it inspires confidence... although as a new rider, it will also leave you grabbing the bars for dear life for a few weeks/months if you decide to get foolish with it. And it's also a really really cool motor. You probably won't appreciate it completely though until you move on. Then you'll learn just how spoiled you were.

The truth is riding solo and unloaded below 6K rpm, I'd trade my Blackbird for the SV in a hearbeat, every time. Of course, above 6K rpm, it's a whole different story. But I spend a lot more time below 6K than above it... and the SV has its torquey and kind of wooden-feeling "thing" to it that's great in its own way. You can ride a gixxer or an R6, a 750, or even the Blackbird, and still find yourself missing a tiny little bit of what the SV has. I suspect the lightness and flickability of the Ninja 250 is similar in that regard. And the fact that I could wring the hell out of my CB-1 around town without getting halfway into triple digits, may have made it the most awesome fantasy-racer bike ever. They're all great bikes regardless though. You really can't go wrong.

As a general rule, smaller displacement means that you can beat the living snot out of the bike like a grand prix racer and learn what it's like to push a bike without raising the eyebrows of your local LEO's. Larger displacement limits those opportunities to explore, but offers a more relaxed touring/riding experience.... V-twins fall somewhere in between and give you the sensation of a more exciting riding experience because they start to pull from any rpm, regardless of the situation. I4's tend to demand that you really flirt with the power band at all times and if it's a powerful bike, those opportunities are few and far between. Believe me, smaller bikes give you the most sane and rational fun you can have on the street without losing your license! The SV is a pretty "grown up" bike... you need to be a little judicious with it.. and sometimes that just isn't as much fun as flogging something with less power. But while the SV is at the upper limit of what you can flog on a regular basis, believe me, you will find the opportunities... which is something I've yet to do significantly with my blackbird even after nearly six months of ownership (winter sucks!). Bah! Why own a beast of a bike if you can't rail with it! And for that matter, why wish you had more when you simply can't use it? Shit, I'd have more fun dragging a knee on a 250 than dealing with winter on a blackbird! I'm telling you, this bike better make up for it come summer time! It owes me big time!

So I say, let money decide. Because this is your first bike, not your last... GET THE BEST DEAL YOU CAN FIND! Ensure that you can sell it for at least $300 more than you paid. The more that you're able to be into motorcycling without losing a fortune, the longer lasting the hobby/interest/passion can remain with you through the good times and the bad.

Getting locked into one model of bike kinda of screws your ability to get a great deal. Just walk into any transaction with a short-list of 3-5 bikes and a willingness to walk away and wait a few more weeks...  if the deal isn't great, wait for the one that is. At the end of the day, your first bike isn't a huge issue. There's lots of decent first bikes out there. And you WILL love, and have fond memories of, whatever you wind up with... and you will find certain reasons to love whatever you wind up with. They're all good in their own way. They'll all take you somewhere special.

Save your money... just take a great deal on whatever you happen to find. It's your first bike, not your last. If you've saved money on a good deal, you can sell it 4 months down the road for more than you paid for it and buy something that better suits your particular preferences, once you have a better idea of what you really want from a bike.

[Poustman]

Good points!

[jsanford]

Echo the recommendation for a dualsport single as a first bike.  After I quoted insurance on the Ninja 250 (very high here in WA state for women riders) I explored other options and bought a then-eight-year-old F650ST at a premium as it had the factory lowering kit. Sold it after three years, raised back to standard height, for more than I paid.



I don't know if they're available in Canada, but the new Honda 250R just got a stellar review in this month's issue of MCN and it is available with ABS.

[Poustman]

After much searching and long waiting for the right deal/time/etc, yesterday I picked up my first bike:  a 2006 Suzuki SV1000S.  10,2xx kms on purchase, I've put on a good 200+ already.  LOVE THE BIKE!  I got a really fantastic deal and am so thoroughly delighted with my purchase.  

Many sincere thanks to everyone for your helpful words and good advice.  I hope to meet many of you at some kind of bike event in the future!

[nater]

After much searching and long waiting for the right deal/time/etc, yesterday I picked up my first bike:  a 2006 Suzuki SV1000S.  10,2xx kms on purchase, I've put on a good 200+ already.  LOVE THE BIKE!  I got a really fantastic deal and am so thoroughly delighted with my purchase.  

Many sincere thanks to everyone for your helpful words and good advice.  I hope to meet many of you at some kind of bike event in the future!

Very nice!  

[Poustman]

Just passed 1000kms on the bike this morning in the pouring rain. I love riding in the rain... though I love riding in the sun even more.

[Castaway]

Just passed 1000kms on the bike this morning in the pouring rain. I love riding in the rain... though I love riding in the sun even more.

That's real new bike-itus for ya. Good for you!