Need some advice with 20 year old son and bike

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

My son, 20 yoa, is in college and still lives at home.  He's at a comm college and will likely transfer to a 4 year school in Southern Va in the fall.  He is dying for his own bike now which doesn't bother me although the wife is not happy.  He's a good kid and gets good grades.  He works and makes decent money and feels he can handle the payments.  We would need to co sign though.  When he transfer he thinks getting a job will be easy due to his experience in the restaurant field.  He might indeed get a job but I can't imagine he'll make the tips there as compared to here.  In the DC area there is money where as in the college community he wants to attend he'll mostly be serving other students.
He is pining for a Kawi R6 (599cc I believe).  He is looking at an 09 with very good interest rates right now.  I'm pissed at the dealer for trying to sell this to a kid with NO street bike experience.  He's ridden dirt bikes only.  I'd like to see him get something but am not sure what to recommend.  I need something sporty but obviously not one where the power will get him into a boatload of trouble or worse kill him.  
Any thoughts on what you would recommend if this were your kid?

[Capirex]

Yamaha R6?
Not really a beginner bike but he's got dirt experience and sounds like a responsible kid...
No need to buy new though - especially for a first bike.  Plenty of good deals out there in the used market.

[Tony T]

Something he dosen't need to make payments on for starters. (At least not until he has a job for a while.)

How about a used SV650, they're affordable and sporty.  



Edit for grammar.  

[mugwump58]

Remember yourself at 20... Good luck. If I had listened to my father

[Mookie]

1st bike brand new, supersport and on loan?  That's three bad ideas.

[naustin]

SV650 would be a good - any 600 - 800 cc sport twin really. Won't impress his buddies on 600 inlines, but hopefully impressing people isn't his goal - in that case, a supersport would be a REALLY bad idea.

How about a used Buell XB9?

[phoenix]

Remember yourself at 20... Good luck. If I had listened to my father

+1 definitely

the rates might be good, but the insurance will be KILLER!

now, you hang out here enough, you know what most people are already going to say. What are you fishing for exactly?

Me, I say the usual...SV650S, FZ6, Bandit 650, etc.

[Rabidsnipe]

Assuming the following:
1. You can establish any rules regarding this purchase (he is an adult after all)
2. He'll actually listen to what you say

Just make him pay cash for his first bike.  Don't try and convince him to buy something he doesn't want.  If he pays cash, however, it will assure a couple of things (presumably):
1. It won't matter when he drops it
2. It's less likely to be stolen from his dorm/apartment/rent house
3. He'll take better care of it
4. He will be less likely to get into trouble due to power/speed/etc. because it will probably be smaller displacement.

[Marcster]

If he wants something sporty, I'd recommend the SV650 or SV650s...  The "s" version has clip-ons and the sportier riding position to go with it -- I can't imagine sitting like that personally, but he's younger than us.

Also, and you may have covered this already, but you need to lay down the law regarding drinking/riding.   We were all 20 once and it's a very stupid age.

[DNA]

1st bike brand new, supersport and on loan?  That's three bad ideas.

I agree.

When I was 20 I lived in  fraternity at school.  Parking was a problem so everyone had sport bikes.

After about a year the drops and minor crashes started.  Some were really expensive. Tickets were common.

Then my roommate got hit by a drunk and died. Most of the bikes got sold soon after - for big losses I might add.

My advice - get something inexpensive, used and low on power until he can afford the insurance and the rate hikes that go with the supersports.

I have a used Sprint in the DC area.  It ain't that sexy any more but it can haul a bunch of stuff back and forth, but the laundry runs home will be limited somewhat.

As a cop and rider, you know the tickets will be there even for us old and seemingly responsible riders.

[UHOH]

How about a used SV650, their affordable and sporty.  

agree, everybody loves those bikes and they don't break.
prior to 2008 they also sold an unfaired / naked version with slightly more upright seating position.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

Thanks all.  I believe he's starting to crack a little and listen to me regarding the type of bike.  I'll forward these responses to him as well.  And I do remember being 20 so I'm trying to be sympathetic to him. Mom on the other hand.  

[Kootenanny]

Remember yourself at 20... Good luck. If I had listened to my father

If I had listened to my parents, I would never have gotten that first bike or learned to ride.

My point being...if he wants it, he'll probably get it (especially once he's out of the house).  I think that if you show some encouragement, he'll be less inclined to ignore you completely, and might actually take your advice.  You might run this past your wife, too...if she's at least somewhat on board, too, that'll help you make the case that he won't be alienating his parents with his bike purchase, and he may well be willing to buy something more along the lines of what you want rather than just what he wants.

Making him pay cash for it...well, when I was that age, I certainly wasn't gonna get any help from my parents, so yeah, I was forced to buy used and small.  I think a lot of us were.  It sucked at the time, but looking back now I think it was the best thing that could have happened...I was forced to learn on small, used bikes, and I think that helped my learning curve greatly.

BTW, I worked part time as a motorcycle instructor when I was attending college.  It was weekend work, I enjoyed it, and it improved my riding more than any other single thing (met a few young women through the job, too).  Plus, I learned how to teach--which led to other things down the road.  I dunno what MSF instructors are paid, but it might be something for him to look at.

And the bike?  Oh, like everyone else...SV650 (I like the pre-2003 ones with the swoopy bodywork and tubular frames), or the traditional campus ride, the dual-sport (hey, he's a dirt biker already, right?)

[Scratch33]

I'd recommend the Zook SV650, Bandit 650 or GSX650F; the Yammy FZ6; or the Honda 599.

[BluegrassPicker]

+ 1 on SV650s. My son is 22 and this is a great 1st bike.  Looks cool, fun to ride, well built. We picked it up last fall and he has been out practicing and will take the MSF course in 3 weeks.

[photomd]

IMHO, this is a great opportunity for him to learn to buy and run his own vehicle: save money, pay in full, and have him pay for the insurance. Help him by getting a service manual and do maintenance together. Older bikes are very reliable and cheap. All the bikes people have mentioned will do 99% of what he wants.

The reason I think it's good for him to do it alone is that it tests his commitent. If he truely wants it, he'll find away and IMHO, he's more likely to take care of the bike and hopefully himself. Good luck. If I had listened to my father as a teenager, I would have never bought a bike.  

[Snapping Twig]

Something older will be cheaper and less powerful.

Lots of good ideas so far. Ownership instills pride, gifts don't, so let him buy it 100% - no financing, no or very little assistance. Buy within his means.

Something I haven't yet heard - ATGATT. Insist on a full set of gear #1 BEFORE the bike and wear all of it all the time. Something textile with good boots, gloves and FF helmet. Gift him with one of those lime green vests from Icon.

[scottzilla]

My son, 20 yoa, is in college and still lives at home.  He's at a comm college and will likely transfer to a 4 year school in Southern Va in the fall.  He is dying for his own bike now which doesn't bother me although the wife is not happy.  He's a good kid and gets good grades.  He works and makes decent money and feels he can handle the payments.  We would need to co sign though.  When he transfer he thinks getting a job will be easy due to his experience in the restaurant field.  He might indeed get a job but I can't imagine he'll make the tips there as compared to here.  In the DC area there is money where as in the college community he wants to attend he'll mostly be serving other students.
He is pining for a Kawi R6 (599cc I believe).  He is looking at an 09 with very good interest rates right now.  I'm pissed at the dealer for trying to sell this to a kid with NO street bike experience.  He's ridden dirt bikes only.  I'd like to see him get something but am not sure what to recommend.  I need something sporty but obviously not one where the power will get him into a boatload of trouble or worse kill him.  
Any thoughts on what you would recommend if this were your kid?

How many 600cc squids have you shoveled off the pavement in your career?
You're in a tough spot.  Good luck.

[Skee]

Remember yourself at 20... Good luck. If I had listened to my father

A used bike is best for starters.  You will drop it, at least in a parking lot somewhere, no matter how much dirt experience you have, maybe in spite of his dirt experience, because hey, it's no big deal in the dirt.

Now If I had listened to Dad, I'd be riding in a minivan today...

Remember yourself at 20.

And don't let him do that either.!;-)  You see how that worked out

[DogBoy]

As mentioned, insurance can be equal to, or more than, the amount of the monthly payment on a new 600cc sportbike for a 20 year-old. Add me to chorus recommending an older, less powerful bike. I don't see any budget for gear in the original post. I'd recommend he buy safety gear first and spend whatever is left over on the bike.

Don't cosign for anything. You are giving the other name on the account permission to use the card (if using OEM financing) for anything, at any time and there is no obligation or mechanism to notify you when the account is used.

[Zerosum]

+ 1,000,000 on paying in cash... HIS CASH.  The last thing a poor, 20 year-old college student needs is a motorcycle loan (and the collision/comprehensive insurance that goes with it.)  I saw too many friends get sucked into the debt-trap during their college years, mostly due to their senses of entitlement being bigger then their meager incomes at the time.  Today they're in their 30s, and they have piles of debt that started in college.

Have him get a GS500, EX500, SV650, something like that.  Something he can save up for and buy in one summer of work. Sportbikes will still be around when he has a decent job in a few years.  

[MK96xj]

Call the insurance company and get a quote on a 600 sport bike. Since it will be financed he will need full coverage.

The premium alone will probably change his mind.

On that same note confirm the insurance levels on a few other bike choices.

[Snapping Twig]

By way of example, here's what I'm riding today - and I own a house!

I could go out and finance a Ferrari, but I can do that because I choose not to.

Perfect type of starter bike!



Totally affordable at @ 2K for an excellent condition later (mid to late 90's) model, no one wants to steal it, 56hp, 43 pound/feet of torque, short wheelbase, handles great, 50mpg.

Insurance is close to nothing.

[Castaway]

Lots of good bikes have been mentioned ... I'm surprised that the Kawasaki 650r and the Honda 599 haven't been so far. These smaller bikes, even the Ninja 250 can be quite competitive in the right hands, and they're cheaper to buy and own.

[RRdvark]

I'd recommend one of the 250 super-moto's you can get now.  It is essentially a dirt bike and they aren't all that fast, but would still be enjoyable and carry something of a cool factor (you can jump it, after all).  My daughter just turned 16 and that is the push I'm making (she wants a 250 Ninja).

I have no idea what insurance runs on the super-motos, though.

[Kootenanny]

I'd recommend one of the 250 super-moto's you can get now.  It is essentially a dirt bike and they aren't all that fast, but would still be enjoyable and carry something of a cool factor (you can jump it, after all).  My daughter just turned 16 and that is the push I'm making (she wants a 250 Ninja).

Nothing wrong with the little Ninja.  And don't think supermotos "aren't all that fast"--they may not have a high top speed on the highway, but I rode Zed's Wr250X last year, and I could see myself getting into all kinds of trouble on that thing!  (I'd probably ride slower on the 250 Ninja.)

[Marcster]

I'd recommend one of the 250 super-moto's you can get now.  It is essentially a dirt bike and they aren't all that fast, but would still be enjoyable and carry something of a cool factor (you can jump it, after all).  My daughter just turned 16 and that is the push I'm making (she wants a 250 Ninja).

I have no idea what insurance runs on the super-motos, though.

Over the Winter I checked into insurance on the WR250X and the WR250R through my insurance company (Progressive).  

Now I know that it varies from person to person and region to region, but the WR250R would be $239/year and the WR250X would be $480/year.

...I'm just sayin'.

[carpe_diem]

The new Ninja 250 is great little bike, looks cool and is a blast to ride.

Also cheap to insure and when you get bored of it, you can usually sell it for a few hundred less than you paid for it (assuming you bought it used).

[scott63]

a used sporty 883 plentiful, reasonably priced and simple to service.

[Frankienuckles]

The sv650s with fairing lowers looks like a full repli-racer, that seems to be the look your son is after and these bikes are affordable, good beginner street bikes that he shouldn't "outgrow" for quite awhile like he might on a 250. A Drz 400 sm might be something to look at in the supermoto class though, Although supermoto bikes do tend to encourage shenanigans. At least mine does.....

[duceduceexplorer]

Im going to go with everyone else here...make him pay cash for the bike as he is going to need to be paying $$ for the insurance. Im 27 and no tickets or points and for comp coverage with a decent amount of medical my premium is $1600 for my RC51 (granted its 998 cc's). I've rode sv650's and they are a great bike as well as the others mentioned, however a ninja 250 might have higher insurance rates for someone his age as its a full faring bike. I would say before he buys something he needs to price out the insurance and see what he can afford. Also price out maintenance for that bike. Another factor in getting a bike is GOOD riding gear, i would say to start expect to pay $400-600 maybe more depending on where you live and what the needs are. IF and thats a big IF you help him out (which i don't think you should, just for the same reasons everyone else mentioned) MAYBE buy him the gear, and make it the "NICEST (by this i mean SAFEST) gear out there. And to the some people that are suggesting a supermotard, someone thats 20 doesn't need to be on a bike that can wheelie in a heart beat, since the kid comes from dirt bikes any motard he gets on he would be able to crack that front wheel up in the air in one or two tries. I still haven't ridden a motard bc i KNOW how i would ride it and i grew up on dirt bikes as well. Thats just my 2 pennies being a "youngster" as well.

[mugwump58]

Over the Winter I checked into insurance on the WR250X and the WR250R through my insurance company (Progressive).  

Now I know that it varies from person to person and region to region, but the WR250R would be $239/year and the WR250X would be $480/year.

...I'm just sayin'.

Lucky me, my insurance is based on cc's, which explains why I find ways to have fun on 250's and 500's, plus they save me from myself.

[jdgretz]

My step-son rides an older 600 Ninja.  He started with an '07 Ninja 250 that got hit by a Sheriff's Deputy (he's fine from that) and loved it.  In fact, he'd sort of like to go back to the 250.  He likes the power of the 600 but had more fun on the 250.

You might also look at Triumphs.  There is certainly something to be said for standard bikes and the Steve McQueen/Marlon Brando look.

jdg

[Paintman]

when my daughter turned 18 she asked to get her Bike endorsement since i help teach on base we did it she had been riding dirt bikes  along time. i picked up a 250 ninja cheap she rode the wheels off it then started riding my XT500 St tracker i built. Now she has a 600RR used we got and loves it she is very responsible and if i dont lock the shop my Superhawk gets a few more miles. but she paid for and wrenched on her used Bikes i was rt there to help.
Its alot of fun to ride with her esp when  she pulls of her helmet and all that hair hair falls out and the guys go damn shes a little girl LOL

[Blunder]

Any thoughts on what you would recommend if this were your kid?

Dude, we're in the same sinking boat.

I've got an XT600E basket case. I'll help him rebuild it, but he has to charge. Sound familiar?

[Skidmark]

It's too bad you're so far away.  

When I was 21, I bought my first bike in cash. The rents wouldn't have helped with that.  I also bought a full set of gear with my own money.
It was a 1999 Yamaha YZF-600R in Wine Red.  3 Years and some 12,000 miles later, I still haven't had more than a parking lot mishap.  
The bonus of this bike is that it is a "sport-touring" bike by insurance standards, so it's much cheaper than a 600RR.
Because i owned it and paid for everything, i was much more careful and didn't hurt myself or the bike.  

It happens to be for sale, if you're interested.  ( glladewig@new.rr.com )

[9secondsflat]

my .02 food for thought...
first- has he ever had any type of moving violation while driving his car or truck? was it for speeding? if you answered YES two either then the bike will only magnify the issues and problems by 10 fold. Any bike especially a sport bike can travel at 80-90mph as if it is sitting still. They accelerate faster then virtually all cars made (excluding the zr1's and supercars made today) and this also can get him into a tremendous amout of problems. The other concerns are since the bikes can accelerate so quick, its the other people on the road that will cut infront and can cause major problems very quick. It takes quite a disciplined rider/owner not to use the power of a bike (trust me i had a turbo hayabusa 274 rwhp) on the street.
All that said, my suggestions woud be for a standard (not a sport bike of any kind) or a dual purpose bike- enduro. This will keep the insurance at a (gulp) palatable level, it will also provide more then ample fun (any bike is better then most any car when it comes to fun in the sun)
I would suggest either a DRZ-400 Suzuki (lots of fun, cheap insurance, he wont catch flack from friends for riding a "girls" bike) or  a bike like a SV650 or similar- (cheap insurance, fun, semi-sport performance at a fraction of the price)

[jsanford]

I live in a university town. A lot of the riding students post on another board. I see enough of my-bike-was-stolen (especially R6's); someone-hit-my-parked-bike posts to convince me that a faired sport bike really doesn't belong on any college campus.  On the street, I see a lot of Japanese sport bikes "nakeded" out or with fairing parts missing ridden by young men.  I've also seen a lot of older sport bikes in the U district ratted out deliberately with rattlecan paint jobs, blacked-out branding and duct tape, clearly to defer thieves; their motors sound well-tuned.

I'd get the oldest, ugliest sub-$2k Japanese-make bike you can find and give it a full service with your son before he leaves for school so he's ready to take good care of it.  A good candidate would be a Suzuki 500E in teal with white wheels or a twenty-year-old Honda or Kaw 250R with Miami Vice purple trim.  Remind your son that the motors have remained unchanged in 20 years in these models.

If there are swings in temperature I'd get a carb'ed model.  For a new rider, I think it's easier to warm up a bike in cooler temperatures (= temperatures cooler than the bike is normally ridden in) than deal with a snatchy fuel-injected motor.   The bike is going to serve as basic transportation so will be ridden under all conditions. Make sure it has a good headlight, good brake feel and rain-ready tires.

A cheaper, ugly, used bike might have funds leftover for a hardshell, locking topcase. Sure they look dumb, but are so handy and thief-resistent.  You can fit an 18-pack of caffeinated soda in them easily.    Backpacks are handy,  but I wouldn't want to land on most of the books I had in college even in a parking lot slip-up.

You should also discuss what your son's policy will be regarding "rides."  Whatever the law may be, it doesn't apply to private property and he may be tempted to give an enthusiastic co-ed a short ride on-campus sans helmet (DAHIK). I've seen some bikes parked in the U-district with the passenger pegs removed--that's one way to go.

[njd]

I'm 21 right now. I ride a ex500.

Dirt bike experience or not, buying an r6 as a first bike is just plain dumb. Especially a new one. And as others have said, the insurance rates alone will be more expensive than his loan payments. I took out a small loan to buy my ninja, but that was through a credit union (low rate), and I work 20-30 hrs a week so making payments is no problem.

As long as he's responsible and works hard, getting a loan isn't necessarily a bad idea. It'll help teach him the experience of paying bills on a regular basis, having to save money, month after month, and just the loan process in general. And don't forget that it can help build his credit.

But I'd strongly advise him to go with something more tame for his first bike. There are plenty of good choices out there. The ex500 is great in my mind. It's faster than 99% of cars you see on the road, and it cruises comfortable on the highway. But if he wants something sportier/newer, a 650r will be plenty fast and pretty, while still keeping insurance rates relatively low.

[njd]

I just did a quick quote with progressive on an r6. Again, I'm a 21 year old male. I live in NJ, and I've had ZERO accidents.

My little Ninja 500 costs about $450/yr to insure with progressive.

The R6? Oh just "$4,022.00"

 

[nater]

Well, he is 20, so he can get whatever he wants to.  However, I would under no circumstances cosign for a bike loan.  He can pay for his own stuff now.  If no can afford, than no can get.  Simple.

[burnergold2B]

 Not what he wants to hear, buuut stay with the dirt bikes; XT350 or XR650L. Whichever fits him better.

 I'm pissed at the dealer for trying to sell this to a kid with NO street bike experience.  He's ridden dirt bikes only.  I'd like to see him get something but am not sure what to recommend.  I need something sporty but obviously not one where the power will get him into a boatload of trouble or worse kill him.  
Any thoughts on what you would recommend if this were your kid?

[falconati]

Just no BMWs, right?