2011 Harley-Davidson XR1200X [motorcycledaily.com]

[UFO]

I'm still trying to figure out the appeal of this bike over offerings from the now defunct Buell, other than the HD brand and mystique.  Perhaps that's what sells...



To build the XR1200, H-D’s engineers started with the frame and motor combo from the existing 1200 Sportster—itself upgraded in 2003 with an isolation-mounted engine and heavier, stiffer chassis—and seriously souped it up. The old pushrod 1200cc V-Twin received lots of changes—downdraft fuel-injection, hotter cams, higher compression and a 2-1-2 exhaust to name a few—resulting in a loss of a few foot-pounds of torque, but a boost in claimed horsepower to 90 (most dyno tests put rear-wheel power around 75-80 hp). Not quite Buell levels of force, but not bad for a half-century-old air-cooled design, either.

To control that new-found power, the chassis got reworked as well. Gone are the spindly-looking forks and swingarm. A cast-aluminum swingarm holds a cast wheel, and inverted Showa forks locate the front 18-inch wheel. Dunlop Qualifier radials grip the road, and when it’s time to stop, four-piston calipers and 292mm rotors offer modern braking performance.

Read the entire review here:  http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2010/06/2011-harley-davidson-xr1200x-md-first-ride/

[Rogue]

From To build the XR1200, H-D’s engineers started with the frame and motor combo from the existing 1200 Sportster—itself upgraded in 2003 with an isolation-mounted engine and heavier, stiffer chassis—and seriously souped it up. The old pushrod 1200cc V-Twin received lots of changes—downdraft fuel-injection, hotter cams, higher compression and a 2-1-2 exhaust to name a few—resulting in a loss of a few foot-pounds of torque, but a boost in claimed horsepower to 90 (most dyno tests put rear-wheel power around 75-80 hp). Not quite Buell levels of force, but not bad for a half-century-old air-cooled design, either.

Oh my fookin' gawd!  75-80 rwhp.  Woohoo!  congratulations H-D.  Nice job.  

 

The Buell XB9R put out that much rwhp back in 2002!  And it was Buell NOT H-D that designed the "high performance" into that 1200 motor.  


What a joke!

[falconati]

"not bad for a half-century-old air-cooled design"

Uhhhhh.....holy fucking backhanded insults, batman.

[JamesG]

Its a Harley that handles reasonably well (Bandit 1200 territory). And it does look pretty good and as a HD should.  Buell had to deviate from the motorcycle norm (esp. for HD folks) in order to get that lump to go around corners compariably to modern designs,  so this is for peeps who want their "Harley" and be able to corner with it to...

[XLR8]

no

[Mr Sunshine]

90 freaking HP from a motor with more displacement than my Multistrada 1200?  

[Mr Sunshine]

Its a Harley that handles reasonably well (Bandit 1200 territory). And it does look pretty good and as a HD should.  Buell had to deviate from the motorcycle norm (esp. for HD folks) in order to get that lump to go around corners compariably to modern designs,  so this is for peeps who want their "Harley" and be able to corner with it to...

         

someone pick me up off the floor at some point while I continue to laugh

   

[greywolf]

For HD buffs , it is reminicent of the XR750 flat tracker , which had great success.

The 1200 is  decent motor by HD standards, and for some a great day bike.  

While I'm a fan of the XR750 and own a HD Street Glide.. for my money , I felt an FJR was a much better choice for a second bike.

[02Tac]

  I stopped in the local HD dealer late last year to look at the XR because I thought HD was finally making a bike that might interest me.  Visually, I like the bike; still do.  The problem is, and it might just be the one I looked at, is that the fit and finish of my 2002 Bandio is better than the new XR.  The pillion seat is a joke.  When I got home I crunched some numbers and realized that I could get a brand new Bandit 1250 for less than the XR.  

Sorry HD, if you want me to buy one you need to bring the price down, make a usable rear seat and up the fuel capacity.

[1KPerDay]

 When I got home I crunched some numbers and realized that I could get a brand new Bandit 1250 for less than the XR.  

News flash. There will always be a cheaper bike or (for mr sunshine) one with MOAR POWAR!@#!  Buy the Suzuki and be happy.

[DNA]

I htink this could be a serious #3 bike.

#1  = ST or Adv bike
#2 = Dirt bike 250-450cc
#3 = Fun bike for 3 hour weekend rider.
         Could be an S3, Touno, 'Tard, or any number of bikes that are just for having fun on.  

I could see having one.  Really - but as a #3 - not a #1

[Flightar]

The problem with this bike is that Harley dosent know what it is and how to execute it. The best XR750 knock off out there is the Mert Lawill street tracker and thats because Mert knows a thing or two about the originals. The proportions on the HD offering are all wrong as are the details, such as for instance, the seat, tail section, forks, fuel tank, wheels, too much black, etc.

The Sportster could be, and should be, a legitimate competitor for the Ducati Monster starting with the VRod engine being placed into it's frame and hiring some properly talented stylists and then be given the freedom to do their jobs.

This bike is simply another chapter in the long and illustrious history of Harley Davidson missing the mark...I.E. XLCR, XR1000, VRod engine STILL in only one model, V1000 and the lack of a street bike spin off, etc, etc.  

[Rincewind]

I have done some long-distance touring on a Sportster.  

I'd hit that.  Sure it's heavy compared to other naked roadsters, but at least HD is now bringing something to the table in this segment.  Would the extra weight of the HD X model outweigh the convenience of belt-drive and no valve adjustments needed?  I don't know for sure, but this bike would need further evaluation if I were in the market.  

Wet weight of 573lbs is not that bad - only, what... 30lbs(?) over the weight of the Guzzi Griso or older BMW R1150R?  That's not atrocious.  

[Flightar]

Racewind said: "Sure it's heavy compared to other naked roadsters, but at least HD is now bringing something to the table in this segment."

What do you mean by the second part of your statement? Harley HAS done this many, many times in the past going all the way back to the mid seventies but they have never been able to get it right. There is nothing new in this concept. My opinion here is that if they can't do it right they shouldn't be doing it at all.

[1KPerDay]

The Sportster could be, and should be, a legitimate competitor for the Ducati Monster

when it came out a few rags did comparos with the XR, the monster, and the Moto Guzzi 1200 sport. The XR won a couple of them, or at least was picked first by several reviewers. The overall consensus was, "not just the best Harley, but actually a good motorcycle."

But that won't change your mind, of course.



DOO RAGS CHAPS FRINGES TRAILRZZZ

[Rincewind]

Racewind said: "Sure it's heavy compared to other naked roadsters, but at least HD is now bringing something to the table in this segment."

What do you mean by the second part of your statement? Harley HAS done this many, many times in the past going all the way back to the mid seventies but they have never been able to get it right. There is nothing new in this concept. My opinion here is that if they can't do it right they shouldn't be doing it at all.

I mean that now (and since the XR1200 came out) Harley has a viable roadster that has the ability to compete with other naked roadsters (in the market, not the racetrack).  Yes the Sportster has been around forever, but usually not with sportbike components.  IIRC they haven't done fully-adjustable suspension on a bike since the T-Sport nearly 10 years ago.

Maybe you are right that it is poorly executed, I haven't ridden one to tell.  But as an enthusiast I'm glad to at least see HD trying.  

[Rogue]

This bike is simply another chapter in the long and illustrious history of Harley Davidson missing the mark...I.E. XLCR, XR1000, VRod engine STILL in only one model, V1000 and the lack of a street bike spin off, etc, etc.  

The problem with H-D and their whole attitude towards motorcycling is that the company AND most of their customers have blinders on.  They honestly don't want to look beyond their world to see what others are building.  Although to be fair, as long as the Baby Boomers are able to ride, they don't have to.  But the demographics clearly are shifting and those Baby Boomers are getting older and no longer buying bikes.  The only customers who are left to pick up the bag are Gen-X and Gen-Y's.  Guess what?  These two generations are not H-D zealots.  

Seriously, this question has been asked in here and everywhere else so many times:  does H-D know what the performance benchmark is?  

Judging by all the bikes they produce, the only answer any thinking man & woman could say is, "No they do not!"  Why else would they call the XR1200 a "performance" bike when all the other bikes in its very narrow class produces more power, is lighter, and most likely handles better.  H-D reminds me of GM not too long ago in many of the market segments they competed in.  H-D can barely afford to keep doing this because they will eventually run out of "blindly loyal" customers, just like GM ran out of its religious followers one market segment at a time.  Eventually, all they will have left are buyers who are more astute and more willing to look at import brands.  

H-D cut off the limb that was suppose to show them the future of motorcycles, as well as their sole in-house source of true high performance R&D.  

[Flightar]

when it came out a few rags did comparos with the XR, the monster, and the Moto Guzzi 1200 sport. The XR won a couple of them, or at least was picked first by several reviewers. The overall consensus was, "not just the best Harley, but actually a good motorcycle."

But that won't change your mind, of course."

RE: I never said it was a bad motorcycle and have actually wanted an XR750 replica for years but this factory effort could be much, much, more than it is as a total package. In fact I have said for years the only Harley I'd actually buy would be a 1200 Sportster...but then It would have to be torn down and re-made as a XR replica.

[Flightar]

I mean that now (and since the XR1200 came out) Harley has a viable roadster that has the ability to compete with other naked roadsters (in the market, not the racetrack).  Yes the Sportster has been around forever, but usually not with sportbike components.  IIRC they haven't done fully-adjustable suspension on a bike since the T-Sport nearly 10 years ago.

Maybe you are right that it is poorly executed, I haven't ridden one to tell.  But as an enthusiast I'm glad to at least see HD trying.  

RE: I agree that them trying is a good thing but I would insist that they do a better job of trying...they are capable IMHO despite their numerous gaffes. Harley is a complany that I really want to see do better...I really wanted them to do well with the VR1000 and other models but in the end they seem to constantly reaffirm that they as a coropration just don't get it.

[martee99]

I visited a HD dealership last year and was drawn towards the XR1200x ( as opposed to all the chrome monsters). I was checking out the spec in the sales literature and noticed that the engine power output specs weren't printed. I asked the saleman what the hp and torque specs were. He said that HD hadn't made them public yet.  When he told me that, I knew why.   I laughed out loud...to the dismay of the saleman and all the other customers in the showroom. The salesman walked off and left me standing there laughing.

[bomber]

while it's all under the large umbrella of motorcycling, HD is selling something very different than what any other manufacturer is selling.

HDI did so well for so long, they are, I would guess, very leery of change. There is nothing so conservative as a successful business man.

[1KPerDay]

RE: I never said it was a bad motorcycle and have actually wanted an XR750 replica for years but this factory effort could be much, much, more than it is as a total package. In fact I have said for years the only Harley I'd actually buy would be a 1200 Sportster...but then It would have to be torn down and re-made as a XR replica.

Who are you kidding? You would never buy a Harley and you will never buy one.

They as a corporation don't get it... ??

They hold about 50% of the "larger than 700cc roadbike" market.

They need to woo younger riders as their baby boomer bread and butter dies off, yes. That's why this XR (along with the "forty-eight" and a bunch of other bikes they've made recently) is a huge step in the right direction.

You want them to make the same bikes as everyone else... well, that isn't smart from any economic standpoint. And how many people would ACTUALLY buy a true XR750 replica? Sure, a lot of guys like you would talk about it, but precious few would put their money down.

This one you can actually ride on the street. And it will in all likelyhood still be running at 100K+ miles if its owner lets it off the trailer that long.

Air/oil cooled, no valve adjustments, meaty torque and HP, no shaft splines or oil or chain lube or adjustments, good brakes, suspension, handling, tires, and ergos.

So you can't take a pillion.

[1KPerDay]

 I asked the saleman what the hp and torque specs were. He said that HD hadn't made them public yet.  When he told me that, I knew why.   I laughed out loud...to the dismay of the saleman and all the other customers in the showroom. The salesman walked off and left me standing there laughing.

Congratulations! You've discovered that 2-valve pushrod actuated air-cooled Harleys generally don't make as much power as multi-valve DOHC Japanese bikes of equal displacement. You are the first!  



 

Compare it to the air-cooled ducati 1000/1100 engine and the Guzzi 1200 and you will note that the numbers are quite similar. The duc is more revvy and makes more peak HP, but the H-D makes more torque. The Goose was pretty similar last I checked.

But for some reason nobody laughs like a 13-year-old when they read the spec sheet on the 1200 Guzzi.

It's just not as fun to make fun of the Guzzisti, is it?  

[martee99]

Point taken. I guess I shouldn't of expected so much from HD.  Maybe the supension compensates for the 80hp @ 573 lbs wet weight. I don't think tassels will look good on it though.

[steve.m]

I'm still trying to figure out the appeal of this bike over offerings from the now defunct Buell, other than the HD brand and mystique.  Perhaps that's what sells...

exactly why i bought the buell.  i loved the way my sportster made power (plenty of fun for real world riding on city streets and twisties) but wanted better handling, more comfort and touring ability.  enter XB12XT  

[JamesG]

someone pick me up off the floor at some point while I continue to laugh

Thats not very sunny of you.

[reppans]

This Harley has more than enough power and handling for me .... and has more than met my goals of maximizing fun while keeping speeds sane.  I like the bike.... a lot  

[02Tac]

News flash. There will always be a cheaper bike or (for mr sunshine) one with MOAR POWAR!@#!  Buy the Suzuki and be happy.

It has nothing to do with the Bandit simply being cheaper, it is about what appears to be a better all around bike for less $$.  To me, an HD sticker is not worth the extra cost.

[02Tac]

HD is selling something very different than what any other manufacturer is selling.

How do you figure.


 

[1KPerDay]

It has nothing to do with the Bandit simply being cheaper, it is about what appears to be a better all around bike for less $$.  To me, an HD sticker is not worth the extra cost.

BUY THE SUZUKI AND BE HAPPY.

[02Tac]

BUY THE SUZUKI AND BE HAPPY.

I have a Zuki and am happy.  

[martee99]

It's just not as fun to make fun of the Guzzisti, is it?  

That's because Guzzi owners laugh with us as we mock them.

[Lon]

I'm still trying to figure out the appeal of this bike over offerings from the now defunct Buell, other than the HD brand and mystique.  Perhaps that's what sells...

I rode a Buell Ulysses last Friday.  It was awesome.

If the XR1200 feels like a Buell...  

[Rusty the Scoob]

I like the look of this bike, especially compared to other HDs, but with the same HP as my SV650, same projected lifespan, $3-4k more expensive and 170 lbs heavier, I'm having a hard time understanding the point.  


Edit... hmm.. close to double the torque.   That could be fun.

[bomber]

How do you figure.


  

No other manufacturer is selling so many motorcycles on a purely emotional basis -- no mention of performance, no mention of engineering prowess (though there is a great deal in the HD models), no sweating racing results -- simply producing brand new motorcycles that cling tightly to a design aesthetic that is decades old, while making the bikes work well enough for thier customer base, and last long enough (for the same audience).

I know of number of folks who say they would not ride if they couldn't have a Harley. While I don't share their point of view, I recognize that it exists, is backed up with a lot of money, and the fact that this kind of brand loyalty doesn't exist elsewhere.

That's how I figure.

[1KPerDay]

I like the look of this bike, especially compared to other HDs, but with the same HP as my SV650, same projected lifespan, $3-4k more expensive and 170 lbs heavier, I'm having a hard time understanding the point.  

Do a carb sync, chain adjust, radiator flush, and valve adjust on your SV and then try to do one on the XR, and get back to me.

[02Tac]

Ok, I can see that.  

No other manufacturer is selling so many motorcycles on a purely emotional basis -- no mention of performance, no mention of engineering prowess (though there is a great deal in the HD models), no sweating racing results -- simply producing brand new motorcycles that cling tightly to a design aesthetic that is decades old, while making the bikes work well enough for thier customer base, and last long enough (for the same audience).

I know of number of folks who say they would not ride if they couldn't have a Harley. While I don't share their point of view, I recognize that it exists, is backed up with a lot of money, and the fact that this kind of brand loyalty doesn't exist elsewhere.

That's how I figure.

[steve.m]

Do a carb sync, chain adjust, radiator flush, and valve adjust on your SV and then try to do one on the XR, and get back to me.

wait, harleys are the unreliable maintenance nightmares, don't go being rational and pointing out other manufacturer's maintenance costs

[02Tac]

Good points, but still  no justification for the overpricing of the HD.

Do a carb sync, chain adjust, radiator flush, and valve adjust on your SV and then try to do one on the XR, and get back to me.

[1KPerDay]

 

[nferr]

The truth is that Harley knows they'll sell about fifty Nightsters and Irons for every one XR1200 it moves. The XR1200 is only here because it sells overseas so why not offer it in the US. Harley's locked into it's "image" niche and this bike isn't going to change that. Plus it god awful expensive for what it is.

[1KPerDay]

 Plus it god awful expensive for what it is.

WTH is the matter with you people?

11 grand for a sporty H-D standard with looks and history and quality and good handling and easy maintenance and full dealership support every 50 miles all across the country?

Perhaps you'd prefer the awesome 50 hp and stunningly great looks, handling and utility of the new 1300cc Hondas for 12-13 grand?


http://powersports.honda.com/2010/interstate.aspx
http://powersports.honda.com/street/cruisers/1300-custom-line.aspx

[steve.m]

i would bash honda cruisers...but 1k's facts are entirely too perfect an insult to the imported bikes.

i'll say again, i never got the harley thing till i rode one, and i bought it.  not a fan of the 96 cu-in motor though, too slow to rev.  sporty's are great fun, and you couldn't ask for a more pure riding experience than on a XL  

[vguy]

And it was Buell NOT H-D that designed the "high performance" into that 1200 motor.  

I'm sure H-D sent him a check.

[02Tac]

If you are going to compare the XR, then use a bike in the same class - Standards / Sport touring. I offer the ST option as HD offers bag kits aimed at making ti an ST mount.

So, who are the competitors

1 - Suzuki Bandit   -  Yes, it has maintenance requirements, but has teh XR covered in all other areas and costs less.  30 lbs lighter curb weight and more power.  Usable rear seat. Better range.
 
2 - SV 650 or Gladius - as above and even lightere and less expensive.

3 - Yamaha FZ1 or FZ 6 - As above, but probably equal with the XR in rear seat uselessness

4 - Honda VRF 1200 - Ok, it is more expensive and look odd, but a twin clutch F1 style gear box is an option!

5 - Triumph Street Triple - see item 3

[1KPerDay]

Okay... you're comparing the H-D XR1200 to the Suzuki Gladius... and the Honda VFR1200.

You're obviously out of your gourd and not worth arguing with any further. Have a nice day! Yay Bandits!

[nevinfs327]

I demo'd an XR1200 last summer.  The only things I remember about it was that it was FUN, the intake noise was awesome, but I felt weird not being able to squeeze the narrow tank with my legs in turns.  

Of the many bikes I've owned or ridden I would compare it most to a Moto Guzzi Griso.  Riding experience wasn't too far off from my old GSX1100G either, but the weight disappeared more easily.  

I love the limited maintenance of the XR.  I will likely own one eventually.  

[nevinfs327]

If you are going to compare the XR, then use a bike in the same class - Standards / Sport touring. I offer the ST option as HD offers bag kits aimed at making ti an ST mount.

So, who are the competitors

1 - Suzuki Bandit   -  Yes, it has maintenance requirements, but has teh XR covered in all other areas and costs less.  30 lbs lighter curb weight and more power.  Usable rear seat. Better range.
 
2 - SV 650 or Gladius - as above and even lightere and less expensive.

3 - Yamaha FZ1 or FZ 6 - As above, but probably equal with the XR in rear seat uselessness

4 - Honda VRF 1200 - Ok, it is more expensive and look odd, but a twin clutch F1 style gear box is an option!

5 - Triumph Street Triple - see item 3

Just did 700 2-up miles this weekend on my Street Triple with few complaints from my SO.  The seat isn't bad at all for passenger accomodations and comfort.  I definitely wouldn't attempt that sort of trip on an XR.

[02Tac]

Okay... you're comparing the H-D XR1200 to the Suzuki Gladius... and the Honda VFR1200.

You're obviously out of your gourd and not worth arguing with any further. Have a nice day! Yay Bandits!

  Out of my gourd or not, I offer that even the Viffer and Gladius are a closer match for teh XR than the Honda cruisers you referenced.  

  Rather than be dismissive and run away, tell us what bike(s) you see the XR as competing against?  Is it not a standard with ST possibilities?
 
  I am not saying the XR is a bad bike, what I am saying is that compared to bikes of the same general classification (touring / ST / Sport / standard / cruiser / supersort) the XR is over priced and leaves a bit to be desired unless your primary consideration is that the bike say Harley Davidson on the side.

[1KPerDay]

 Rather than be dismissive and run away, tell us what bike(s) you see the XR as competing against?  

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,53979.msg1247263.html#msg1247263

I'm not running away. But I am dismissive of silly arguments. Have fun on your Bandit.

[02Tac]

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,53979.msg1247263.html#msg1247263

I'm not running away. But I am dismissive of silly arguments. Have fun on your Bandit.

 Honestly, those are the only two bikes you see the XR competing with?  Really?  If that is the case then you are correct, the discussion is over.  Have a nice day.  

[bomber]

Good points, but still  no justification for the overpricing of the HD.

Overpricing according to who? I'm betting HD will not sell many of them, and will eventually lower the prices on the leftovers, but it will still be "overpriced" for most (who would never seriously consider it anyway.

The difficulty with having these conversations is similar to the "what's the competition" talk above.

I maintain that the only competition this scoot has is other Sportsters. Someone that walks up on Thursday considering a Bandit is not likely gonna change his mind by lunchtime and stop into the HD dealership. Similarly, someone who fell in love with this sporty was most likely already a customer at the local HD dealer -- the chances of the person deciding that a Bandit is really what he wants instead are not large, I believe.

There just aren't many that go back and forth from Hods to nonacids, or vice verse. Now that Buell is shuttered, there will be fewer, I'll warrant.

[1KPerDay]

 Honestly, those are the only two bikes you see the XR competing with?  Really?  If that is the case then you are correct, the discussion is over.  Have a nice day.  

Awwwwww..... don't be all dismissive and run awaaaaay....  

[02Tac]

I suppose I simply see bikes as falling into broad categories and like to see how they stack up against others of the same intent.

Overpricing according to who? I'm betting HD will not sell many of them, and will eventually lower the prices on the leftovers, but it will still be "overpriced" for most (who would never seriously consider it anyway.

The difficulty with having these conversations is similar to the "what's the competition" talk above.

I maintain that the only competition this scoot has is other Sportsters. Someone that walks up on Thursday considering a Bandit is not likely gonna change his mind by lunchtime and stop into the HD dealership. Similarly, someone who fell in love with this sporty was most likely already a customer at the local HD dealer -- the chances of the person deciding that a Bandit is really what he wants instead are not large, I believe.

There just aren't many that go back and forth from Hods to nonacids, or vice verse. Now that Buell is shuttered, there will be fewer, I'll warrant.

[02Tac]

Awwwwww..... don't be all dismissive and run awaaaaay....  

No running, just sitting by and waiting for you to realize the bike is not in a category with only two other bikes.

[ninegear]

Decent looking bike I must say...for a harley. Why dont they just produce the firebolt under the HD name it would sell much better than this thing. Hell if they used the firebolt engine it might sell better. The firebolt engine has like 105 HP compared to the 80-90 the XR1200 has?

O well its a start.

[1KPerDay]

No running, just sitting by and waiting for you to realize the bike is not in a category with only two other bikes.

*yawn*

[1KPerDay]

Decent looking bike I must say...for a harley. Why dont they just produce the firebolt under the HD name it would sell much better than this thing. Hell if they used the firebolt engine it might sell better. The firebolt engine has like 105 HP compared to the 80-90 the XR1200 has?

O well its a start.

Yeh, the firebolt was a frickin sales dynamo.

[Papa Lazarou]

I test rode one.

Nice machine, suspect finish, handles okay but needs higher pipes. EEEEEEEEEEEK

[ninegear]

Yeh, the firebolt was a frickin sales dynamo.

Damn right. only problem i have with it is the same problem i have with every buell. I thought they were ugly. but thats just my opinion.

[steve.m]

i'd own an xb12r if i could fit on the thing.  i'm limited in sportbike selection by my tallness.

[st ryder]

I really like the white one. Maybe it's the white paint treatment and the very good suspension upgrade that brought me around, as I wasn't a big fan of the previous XR1200X, but I like this HD.  

[motoguy128]

Wet weight of 573lbs is not that bad - only, what... 30lbs(?) over the weight of the Guzzi Griso or older BMW R1150R?  That's not atrocious.  

But the 1150R in '04 at least made 90RWHP... and it was fairly heavy.  My R1200RT without side cases and only 4 gallons of fuel weighs pretty close to 573lbs.

With HD motors, you really need to ignore the peak HP numbers and look at peak torque.  I bet this engine makes at least 80ft-lbs at the bottom and an midrange, so below 100mph it should feel pretty meaty if not faster without needing to be reved.  That's great for commuting and tight twisties.... and wheelies.

[steve.m]

below 100mph it should feel pretty meaty if not faster without needing to be reved.  That's great for commuting and tight twisties.... and wheelies.

 

[reppans]

With HD motors, you really need to ignore the peak HP numbers and look at peak torque.  I bet this engine makes at least 80ft-lbs at the bottom and an midrange, so below 100mph it should feel pretty meaty if not faster without needing to be reved.  That's great for commuting and tight twisties.... and wheelies.

+2

You sir know your engines and what what works well and where.  

[Rogue]

Yeh, the firebolt was a frickin sales dynamo.

 

Someone posted it in the Buell forum a while back.  Or was it the Cycle World article?  In any case, Buell actually sold a lot of Firebolts.  But it was the Lightning that sold even more, which gave Buell the $$ to develop the 1125R

XR1200 is NOT a sales success, not even close.  Wrong bike for the wrong market as far as the US is concerned.  It may be the bike for Europe though where the H-D stigma doesn't exist...at least I hope I doesn't.

[Playinthestreet]

When are youse guyz gonna learn?  It is simply not possible to have an enjoyable riding experience on a Harley-Davidson.

[ggemelos]

Compare it to the air-cooled ducati 1000/1100 engine and the Guzzi 1200 and you will note that the numbers are quite similar. The duc is more revvy and makes more peak HP, but the H-D makes more torque. The Goose was pretty similar last I checked.

The monster 1100 is speced at 95hp and 76 ft-lbs.  It also has a dry weight of 373lbs.  How is that close to the XR with 80hp, 74 ft-lbs, and a dry weight of 551 lbs?  You must have a pretty loose definition of close if a 19% bump in power and a 32% decrease in weight are irrelevant.

By the way, I actually like the XR.  It is a damn fine looking bike.  

[chornbe]

Well, thank God for all the expert opinions!  

[1KPerDay]

The monster 1100 is speced at 95hp and 76 ft-lbs.  It also has a dry weight of 373lbs.  How is that close to the XR with 80hp, 74 ft-lbs, and a dry weight of 551 lbs?  You must have a pretty loose definition of close if a 19% bump in power and a 32% decrease in weight are irrelevant.

Uh.... so you're comparing SPEC'ED, PUBLISHED/DRY/LIE STATS with actual, real-world, measured, ready to ride weight/power stats?

Come back when you're ready for the intarwebs, skippy. BTW my driver's licence says I weigh 220 so it must be true.  

[ggemelos]

Uh.... so you're comparing SPEC'ED, PUBLISHED/DRY/LIE STATS with actual, real-world, measured, ready to ride weight/power stats?

Come back when you're ready for the intarwebs, skippy. BTW my driver's licence says I weigh 220 so it must be true.  

You can argue the power numbers if you like, they are from the respective manufacture web pages (except for the HP on the Harley).  So they are probably all optimistic.  I doubt the quoted dry weights are off by enough to make a dent in the 32% difference.  Not that there is anything wrong with a heavy bike, I hear it helps on windy days  

[1KPerDay]

You can argue the power numbers if you like,

You're the one arguing using numbers. However, if you're going to argue, at least compare apples to apples. kthxbye

[mnb]

When are youse guyz gonna learn?  It is simply not possible to have an enjoyable riding experience on a Harley-Davidson.

Oh, you most certainly can.

Power isn't everything.  The latest technology isn't either.  For me, whether or not something is fun to ride depends on more than just those two things.

The day you can enjoy doing 35mph down a meandering farm road as much as carving a tight canyon at 80 is the day you graduate to a true motorcyclist and stop being just a speed junkie.

[steve.m]

real riders can rip canyons on an undersprung sporty and have fun doing it...can you?  

[fastdadio]

real riders can rip canyons on an undersprung sporty and have fun doing it...can you?  

Yup. Been doing it for a while now. 99, Sportster-sport. Brought it home in Sept 98. South east Ohio, Deals Gap, B L Pkwy, Ridden in Tn. with family every year. Multi state two lane black top touring. Yada,,yadda. ect. Other bikes will come and go from my stable, but this one stays. Sportsters aren't the best bike for any given aspect of riding. When the total overall ownership experience is considered, they're hard to beat. Price, ease of maintenance, insurance, dealer support-access, part cost-availability, crashability. If out right performance is your concern, look at power to weight ratio and vote with your wallet. The new XR 1200 is bad ass and I want one.

[steve.m]

 

except i sold my sportster for a buell, which i feel is the younger, more athletic sister of the sportster.  do miss the look of the sporty though.  

if i fit the mold of the avg american male (5'10"), i'd still have it.

[chornbe]

real riders can rip canyons on an undersprung sporty and have fun doing it...can you?  

 

[1KPerDay]

Yup. Been doing it for a while now. 99, Sportster-sport.

Sweet! The last Harley that leaned.  

[Prubert]

Sweet! The last Harley that leaned.  

The XR ain't bad...Dragged a header pipe tho.

[1KPerDay]

Yeah, the XR is definitely the sportiest currently. But the Sporty sport leaned further. And was a lot lighter.

[Papa Lazarou]

 Wrong bike for the wrong market as far as the US is concerned.  It may be the bike for Europe though where the H-D stigma doesn't exist...at least I hope I doesn't.

Sadly, pirate clones (who seem to be dentists, accounts, bankers and doctors) now exist here in great numbers. And they attract derision.

It may have been developed for Yurp but it has an innate prob. It is uncomfortable over any distance and it rots early on. It's not California here. Other Yurp bikes (Monster etc) do the same thing better.

Good looking bike, mind.