ESTN 2011

[chornbe]

Plans are being discussed. Ideas are being tossed around.  Stay tuned for details.

[Mr.Black]

How about Vermont or has that been done recently? I'm still pretty new here.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

 

[Scratch33]

A two-horse town would be preferable next year.  

[maddjack]

Kentucky or SE Ohio get my vote

[garry]

Discussed where (and why not here)?

[JReazor]

Discussed where (and why not here)?

What he said.

[maddjack]

Discussed where (and why not here)?

yeah Chris, or is this a private pink ballon party??

[Skee]

I'm in, I'm in, I'm in!!!  Oh, I can't wait.  
So I can put it on my calendar & blow it off at the last minute.
Still sore at missing this year's, especially since Jerry led the dual-sport ride.  

Kentucky or SE Ohio gets my vote.

[Max Wedge]

Right now I like the SE Ohio idea, but I'm still sore from the ride home yesterday. So, subject to change.

[maddjack]

And when i say SE Ohio , Marietta or Gallipolis would be the second and first choice

[kendenton]

SE Ohio would be great for me!  Vermont involves some sucky slab riding to cross through NY megalopolis...

[garry]

My first choice would be eastern Kentucky, but be careful to not pick a hotel in a dry county. Some cities are wet, but the county is dry.

Southeast Ohio is good fun and lots of people haven't been there yet. Ohio is putting lots of fresh pavement down this summer. I would aim for a location that allows equal access to the Hocking Hills area as well as the great stuff near the Ohio river (Athens?)

Recent ESTN history the newcomers:

ESTN 2005 - Stowe, VT
ESTN 2006 - didn't have one because the National was in Canaan Valley, WV
ESTN 2007 - Sparta, NC
ESTN 2008 - Marlinton, WV
ESTN 2009 - Lake Placid, NY
ESTN 2010 - Sparta, NC

I think the early ESTNs (pre-2005) were in eastern KY or WV. I wasn't around for them. I think Guy knows the history.

Truth be told, you can't beat the riding in NC and TN. But it's always good to mix it up for varieties sake as well as the change in scenery. Plus moving it around spreads the travel requirements around too.

[MK96xj]

Recent ESTN history the newcomers:

ESTN 2005 - Stowe, VT
ESTN 2006 - didn't have one
ESTN 2007 - Sparta, NC
ESTN 2008 - Marlinton, WV
ESTN 2009 - Lake Placid, NY
ESTN 2010 - Sparta, NC

Fix that for ya

[SLK50]

Fix that for ya

  You spelled Marlinton incorrectly.

[Guy]

I think the early ESTNs (pre-2005) were in eastern KY or WV. I wasn't around for them. I think Guy knows the history.

Nope, not a clue. Stowe was my first meet.

However, I'd like to put a vote in for either extreme south-eastern KY (Whitesburg area) or maybe NE TN around Bristol. Some phenomenal roads in that neck of the woods.

[Smoker]

 yeah Chris, or is this a private pink ballon party??

With glitter.  

[Mr.Black]

With glitter.  

Wouldn't that be "glittah"?

[02VFR]

In the early years of ST.N the Eastern meets were in Beckley WV around Labor Day..
I vote for SE Ohio, Marietta or Athens  would be a great base.  

If it is held in SE Ohio I can do some leg work checking out hotels and such and I have several routes I ride in the SE part of the state.  I am sure Garry can add some routes in WV and Marietta is also close enough for a long day ride to Eastern KY...

[maddjack]

I think in 04 there was a Kentucky meet , damm if I remember where tho
And i am telling you Gallipolis is situated nicley for Kentucky, the Hocking Hill and WV, the roads near Galli are pretty dang good as I was just riding them again in August
775 141  375 218 217 just as a teaser

[02VFR]

I think in 04 there was a Kentucky meet , damm if I remember where tho

I believe you are correct.  ST2Sam may know he was around when they were organized by Gar..

[chornbe]

You guys looked at a map recently?

Kentucky? East?

[garry]

You guys looked at a map recently?

Kentucky? East?

Eastern KY is in the eastern time zone (barely).

[Guy]

You guys looked at a map recently?

Kentucky? East?

Hey, it's the Eastern meet, not the East coast meet. Suck it up

[Mr.Black]

Hey, it's the Eastern meet, not the East coast meet. Suck it up

How about on the beach some where. Sport Tanning . Net

[maddjack]

You guys looked at a map recently?

Kentucky? East?

Won't the trailer make it???  

[Mr.Black]

 Won't the trailer make it???  

Bwaaahhhh!!!!!

[stefrrr]

I'll act like I'm interested so I can go somewhere exotic instead.

[ZZR Rob]

 

[maddjack]

 

Guess Chris is still working on the secret plans  

[02VFR]

Guess Chris is still working on the secret plans  

If it's a secret how will we know....  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

If it's a secret how will we know....  

That's the point: if you can find it, you can attend!  

[knolltop314]

Region4 will allow ya to cross border, but toll will be steep!
 

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Locked at the request of the OP




Unlocked to allow continued planning  

[Oilhed]

Go North!

[Gar]

estn 2002 - WV at the "bridge" in Fayetteville
estn 2003 - Ky - Bourbon trail - based in Lexington
Estn 2004 - Ky - Cumberland Falls and Cumberland Gap

[servicerifle]

estn 2003 - Ky - Bourbon trail - based in Lexington
 

This has merit, and the bar-hoppin' HD members wouldn't feel left out, either.

[garry]

I'm penciling in my moto trips for this season and it appears we still don't have a plan for ESTN yet. This is not acceptable :-) I need a good trip for September.

I haven't worked anything out, but Charleston, WV looks like a good option. Draw a 100 mile circle around it and there is tons of nice riding in WV, southeast OH, and eastern KY, plus it's an area that we haven't ridden yet for ESTN. And it's at the intersection of three interstates for easy access. Probably lots of lodging and food options.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I haven't worked anything out, but Charleston, WV looks like a good option. Draw a 100 mile circle around it and there is tons of nice riding in WV, southeast OH, and eastern KY, plus it's an area that we haven't ridden yet for ESTN. And it's at the intersection of three interstates for easy access. Probably lots of lodging and food options.

I approve.

Make it so

[Smoker]

Sept. 9-11 is my vote.

[Skee]

...and it appears we still don't have a plan for ESTN yet. This is not acceptable :-) I need a good trip for September.

...Charleston, WV looks like a good option.

+1  Any other suggestions?  Should we have a plebisite?  

I approve.

Make it so

Hail Ceasar, or Your Ceasarinaness as the case may be.  That would like make you Cleo, woouldn't it?  

[garry]

Possibility: Days Inn - Charleston East. Rates may be as low as $64/night. On the river. Free WiFi. Right near the interstates, so not a very scenic area, but there are some restaurants, gas stations, etc nearby. Gets decent reviews for a budget motel.

More info at: http://www.daysinn.com/DaysInn/control/Booking/property_info?propertyId=07766

[Scratch33]

   Good location.  I'll prolly miss this one if it coincides with my Newfoundland ride.

[garry]

I sent an email asking about group rates (guessed at 20 rooms). Probably goes through some national/center office. I'll let you know what I hear back.

[Oilhed]

OK, so officially when and where?

[Mr.Awesome]

NO! A plan has been formed. No committees. No votes. No "what do you think about..."

Feathers always get ruffled. Decisiveness wins!  

Agreed.   Somebody take the ball and run with it. Name the place and time and people will show up.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

NO! A plan has been formed. No committees. No votes. No "what do you think about..."

Feathers always get ruffled. Decisiveness wins!  

+1

Garry - you've just volunteered! Might want to start a new "Official" thread once you have the location/dates pinned down  




Weren't expecting that, were you?  

[MrsCablebandit]

Possibility: Days Inn - Charleston East. Rates may be as low as $64/night. On the river. Free WiFi. Right near the interstates, so not a very scenic area, but there are some restaurants, gas stations, etc nearby. Gets decent reviews for a budget motel.

More info at: http://www.daysinn.com/DaysInn/control/Booking/property_info?propertyId=07766

There's a Bob Evans nearby.  I'm in!  I just love being the youngest in the restaurant by an average of 30-40 years!  

Seriously, though...ESTN 2010 was so awesome (esp. our Saturday night group dinner!) that I definitely want to make it to the 2011 event...it's on our calendar!

[Max Wedge]

The Pace is hosting a ride to Barber in September. Not sure I'll make an ESTN.

But will Chornbe be there? He started this after all.

[sammyseaman]

But will Chornbe be there? He started this after all.

Exactly! I'd probably commit if I knew Chronbe was gonna be there but nobody's heard from him in a looooong time.  

[SLK50]

Let's see. ESTN is at Barber's in September. Got it.

[garry]

+1

Garry - you've just volunteered! Might want to start a new "Official" thread once you have the location/dates pinned down  

Weren't expecting that, were you?  

Actually, I kinda was. The squeaky wheel usually gets put in charge. But I enjoy ESTN meets too much to not see *something* happen.

[02VFR]

Not going to make it this year.
We are planning a run down to the Dragon the last week of August into the fist week of September.  2 days to get down, 2 days riding and 2 days to get home.

Never been to the Dragon, so once I go I can check it off the to do list....

Have Fun...

[garry]

Here is the reply on a group rate (from the national office):

Location: 6400 MacCorkle Avenue SE, Charleston WV 25304
Arrival date: 9/9/11
Number of nights: 2
Rooms: 20 non-smoking with two double beds
Rates: 1-2 adults $71.40, 3 adults $75.65, 4 adults $79.90 + tax
Individual Guarantee: credit card
Individual Cancel policy: 7 days prior to arrival by 4 pm
Block Release: 7 days prior to arrival
Hotel amenities: free continental breakfast, outdoor pool, free wireless internet

Note: The rates and availability are subject to change. The rates quoted are per room per night prior to tax. Other charges may apply for local amenities like safe warranties and telephone access. The minimum qualifications must be met for a booking to occur. When a credit card is required a valid number must be provided with an expiration date.

Personally, I think the rate is OK, but when I checked online, I saw "promotional specials" for $64. Can't say I like the 7-day in advance cancellation policy. If the weather turns to crap, you're screwed for the reservation. Might be better to find your own "best deal" (AAA, AARP, whatever) and have the usual Days Inn cancellation policy (day off by 6pm or whatever).

Still hunting down options. Will do more research tonight from home.

[servicerifle]

I like it.  

[hurtin]

Here is the reply on a group rate (from the national office):
Personally, I think the rate is OK, but when I checked online, I saw "promotional specials" for $64. Can't say I like the 7-day in advance cancellation policy. If the weather turns to crap, you're screwed for the reservation. Might be better to find your own "best deal" (AAA, AARP, whatever) and have the usual Days Inn cancellation policy (day off by 6pm or whatever).

Still hunting down options. Will do more research tonight from home.

Thanks for doing this.  I agree the rate is fine.  When I check the website I get the same rate for AAA as your rate above with no restrictions on cancelations.  So in effect the group deal is no deal at all.  Or you could pay $64 with no option to cancel.

[st2sam]

  When I check the website I get the same rate for AAA as your rate above with no restrictions on cancellations.  So in effect the group deal is no deal at all.  

Agreed.
Thanks for stepping up to the plate Gary, first beer is on me.
Oh, and as far as the date goes, it's AOK by me. Run with it.

[R Doug]

 

[Mr.Awesome]

 

Cool!  Doug's bringing the popcorn.  

[garry]

I spent a few hours plotting routes last night and am now second-guessing the Charleston suggestion. It makes for some long days (350 - 400 miles) to get to the good stuff. So I started dragging a 75 mile radius circle around to see where the best concentration of riding could be hosted from. Huntington/Ashland lets you hit eastern KY (wonderful) and the Hocking Hills of OH. Marietta/Parkersburg/Belpre offer the amazing twisties of southeast OH, the Hocking Hills and western WV (16, 20, 15, 74, 33, etc). I'm liking this option a lot more for road choice and there should be lots of hotels to choose from. The MSTA "Mail Pouch Fly-By" is hosted in Marietta every year (Aug 19-21 this year). Southeast OH offers the best twisty riding in the region IMO. Yes, even better (more twisties, more technical) than WV. But you don't get the views from the big elevation changes.

North Bend State Park (just west of Harrisville, WV) is a great location with affordable rooms ($90?), on-site restaurant and on-site camping but the official state park rules are no alcohol. I've stayed there several times for another meet and they seem to be OK with discreet, quiet consumption out of the public eye (like on the back porch). But that would kill the usual ESTN parking lot party so I suspect it's a deal-breaker. Route 16 is right there and southeast OH is less than an hour away. Ferry ride across the Ohio River optional.

Maybe some southwestern WV locals could offer up route suggestions in the Charleston area to help make a decision. I passed through there last year (94, 3, 10 en route to KY). 16 and surrounding roads are good south of Beckley to Tazewell/Bluefield.

[BuckeyeRider]

All sounds great to me (in my backyard) and schedule permitting, I'm in.  

[Skee]

 Might be better to find your own "best deal" (AAA, AARP, whatever) and have the usual Days Inn cancellation policy (day off by 6pm or whatever).

Agreed.    Pick a "location" and a weekend.   Folks will naturally assemble.  I liked the Lake Placid format.  Kind of like this year's Burger Run.

[R Doug]

Cool!  Doug's bringing the popcorn.  

Actually, I'm not very optimistic I can make ESTN this year.  So, I'm taking a back seat in the theatre watching this event reveal itself.  Right now I plan on attending the National in June and my wife and I have a week's trip planned in late September to the PNW for hiking.

I'll have to see how much time I can take off for this event given the timing of my planned vacation with the wifey.  

[garry]

Hmmm....

The Super 8 in Marietta is $65/night (with taxes). Couple miles away from a great Mexican restaurant (Tampico) for a possible largish dinner gathering. Right off I-77.

An awesome location for twisty strafing in all directions.

The only issue is that it's kinda redundant with the HSTA Mail Pouch Fly-By meet a few weeks earlier.

[R Doug]

Hmmm....

The Super 8 in Marietta is $65/night (with taxes). Couple miles away from a great Mexican restaurant (Tampico) for a possible largish dinner gathering. Right off I-77.

An awesome location for twisty strafing in all directions.

The only issue is that it's kinda redundant with the HSTA Mail Pouch Fly-By meet a few weeks earlier.

Now THAT's an excellent place for ESTN!  

[garry]

I think I'm going to focus on a Marietta-based ESTN rather than Charleston due to the proximity and quantity of awesome roads.

Twisties Till Ya Puke (the rollercoaster nature of the roads makes it especially true).

[Bill-Z]

Ok now, I've not been hangin' around for very long but I like how y'all are working this out.  I'm watching because this will be pretty close to home for me and I would really like to get out for a great weekend.  The community spirit of how this is coming together is really encouraging.

[garry]

After a lot more research, I think Marietta is the winner. I have a request in for a group quote (not expecting much) from the Super 8. Most of the hotels in the area are $100+ a night. I know STN likes to sleep cheap, but don't expect a lot out of a Super 8. The "flexible/cancellable" rate is $65 a night which is pretty affordable.

Look for an "official ESTN 2011" post in the next couple days with more info. Since someone suggested Sept 9-11, I'm OK with that date (similar to last year).

Marietta is a cool little college town on two rivers. The Super 8 is downtown, so it's close to lots of stuff. The motel is tucked away behind a little strip mall, and looks like a fine parking lot to party in. There is a Kroger (grocery and probably beer) store in the plaza. A Shoney's is next door, with a Bob Evan's across the road for breakfast options.

And the good riding starts right outside the smallish town. I suspect there will be (at least) three if not four good routes to choose from (kind of a clover leaf). I've spent a fair amount of time in the area and I know we have locals that know the good stuff, so finding a fun route should not be an issue. The bigger problem will be to pick which one to do. I would encourage coming a day early or staying an extra day to do at least two of the routes and maybe hit bits of the others on the way in and  the way home.

Back to writing mind-numbing unit tests...

[Smoker]

Garry, your Saturday night dinner is on me. Thanks for setting this up. Anything you need me to do to help out, just ask.

[R Doug]

 The community spirit of how this is coming together is really encouraging.

By this, do you mean by the way to kick things around until someone starts to run with it and we all point that finger at that member and say, "You're the Organizer!"  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

By this, do you mean by the way to kick things around until someone starts to run with it and we all point that finger at that member and say, "You're the Organizer!"  

 

[Oilhed]

Agreed.    Pick a "location" and a weekend.   Folks will naturally assemble.  I liked the Lake Placid format.  Kind of like this year's Burger Run.

Me, too!

Hey!  Looka here - http://www.mbcpub.com/

[nickybcareful]

Hi Garry,

The Sternwheel Festival is that weekend, Sept 9-11.  I would be surprised if you can get reasonable hotel rates for that weekend because everyone within 200 comes to the event.  I used to go down to WV to do the Upper Gauley opening day (until I just about killed myself - motorcycling is much safer ), I'd stop by Marietta on the way back cuz the Festival was the same weekend.

It's really a hoot.  Plus you get all that great carnival food - corn dogs, french waffels, funnel cakes - all the gourmet stuff! They have faboulous fireworks, plus you get to rub elbows with the natives, but I'm not sure if the congestion might not be too much for our ESTN folks.

Just food for though.

[kyzrex]

Might try Parkersburg, WV instead....just south of Marietta on the river.  Not sure what there is there as far as restaurants, but I do know there is a hospital there ( don't ask me how ).  Close enough to Marietta to hit the same roads.  Sept 9-11 usually has excellent weather in this area.

[MrsCablebandit]

Might try Parkersburg, WV instead....just south of Marietta on the river.  Not sure what there is there as far as restaurants, but I do know there is a hospital there ( don't ask me how ).  Close enough to Marietta to hit the same roads.  Sept 9-11 usually has excellent weather in this area.

There's a Red Roof Inn in Parkersburg that gets very favorable reviews on Trip Advisor.  When I checked availability for that weekend in September, it returned rooms for $58 (king) and $64 (two doubles) per night.  That's all I know about the place.  Just my $0.02, FWIW.

[Max Wedge]

I'm kind of liking the WV thing...staying tuned.  

[malbojah]

Definitely out on this one. Marietta is 7 states and 2 days away.

Then again, Charleston is 6 states and 2 days travel

[R Doug]

Me, too!

Hey!  Looka here - http://www.mbcpub.com/

Great find!  I really need to make this.  

Please don't let it be the last weekend in September, that's when I'll be on wifey vacation time.  

[garry]

So the plan is evolving:

Right now it looks like ESTN will be based at the Microtel Inn and Suites in Marietta, OH on Sept 16-18. It is across the highway from the Super 8 and next door to a Hampton Inn on one side and a Bob Evans on the other. KMart and Applebee's appear to be in the same shopping center area. Both the Super 8 and the Microtel were listed as sold out as well for the previous weekend, so I guess that riverboat festival really is a big deal.

The Microtel is the top-rated hotel in Marietta according to TripAdvisor. I think it's pretty new. If you pick the "Best Available" rate, you can take advantage of a "Stay 2 - Save 20%" offer which knocks the rate down to $64/night for two adults plus tax (figure another $10 or so a night). Cheaper than the AAA rate.

I am trying to get a group reservation nailed down so that we have a block of 20 rooms at the $64 price. Or just reserve the block of rooms and let people find their own best rate. Its the block of rooms that I want to ensure people can reserve a room over the next few months without worrying about the hotel selling out. Waiting for a reply from the sales office.

[Max Wedge]

Wait....Ohio? I thought it was WV.   I mapped out Marietta WV from my house then to Barber, and was 1044 miles. So much for my SS1000 idea. Still staying tuned however.  

[garry]

Wait....Ohio? I thought it was WV.   I mapped out Marietta WV from my house then to Barber, and was 1044 miles. So much for my SS1000 idea. Still staying tuned however.  

Yup, things are moving right along. I wanted a location with great riding close to the hotel so people that wanted shorter days would have equally good options. It's pretty damn hard to beat Marietta as a location for riding twisties. If you want WV, well, cross the bridge and you're there :-) WV 250, 7, 16, 20, 33, 47, 74, etc are waiting just across the river.

[02VFR]

So the plan is evolving:

Right now it looks like ESTN will be based at the Microtel Inn and Suites in Marietta, OH on Sept 16-18. It is across the highway from the Super 8 and next door to a Hampton Inn on one side and a Bob Evans on the other. KMart and Applebee's appear to be in the same shopping center area. Both the Super 8 and the Microtel were listed as sold out as well for the previous weekend, so I guess that riverboat festival really is a big deal.

The Microtel is the top-rated hotel in Marietta according to TripAdvisor. I think it's pretty new. If you pick the "Best Available" rate, you can take advantage of a "Stay 2 - Save 20%" offer which knocks the rate down to $64/night for two adults plus tax (figure another $10 or so a night). Cheaper than the AAA rate.

I am trying to get a group reservation nailed down so that we have a block of 20 rooms at the $64 price. Or just reserve the block of rooms and let people find their own best rate. Its the block of rooms that I want to ensure people can reserve a room over the next few months without worrying about the hotel selling out. Waiting for a reply from the sales office.

OK, Marietta OH is 1 hour away for me so I will try to show up for this one, at least for a day ride..  Still have to see what my schedule at work is...

[maddjack]

Whenever its all official sticky it so we can book and plan  

[Mr.Awesome]

Hey!  Looka here - http://www.mbcpub.com/

Looks good!  3.1 miles from the microtel inn.  Anybody bringing a car?  

[garry]

Stuff to see and do including a ROADRunner shamrock route:

http://www.mariettaohio.org/thingstodo

[R Doug]

What's the date?  Has that been decided yet?  

[garry]

What's the date?  Has that been decided yet?  

Looking like Sept 16-18 as the town is sold out of hotel rooms the previous weekend.

[hurtin]

Definitely out on this one. Marietta is 7 states and 2 days away.

Then again, Charleston is 6 states and 2 days travel

Yeah but it is 2 days of nice riding.   . Catskills ->central PA->WV -> OH.

[garry]

I just laid out a nice 250 mile loop to visit the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame:

http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/

[mugwump58]

He trundles off to check the work schedule....

[SLK50]

I just laid out a nice 250 mile loop to visit the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame:

http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/

  I've been there a few times, I'd say it's definitely worth the trip.

  And since you've gone that far, you could also fit in a little side trip to Iron Pony.

[garry]

Also laid out three all-day routes:

Ohio Sampler
Motherload (best of Ohio and some kick ass WV)
West By God (almost all WV)

Still need to figure out a good Hocking Hills all-day (300+ miles) route. Might have to ask for help from the locals on that one...

Now off to bed because I'm riding all day in the ...... WV panhandle and southeast Ohio!

[Max Wedge]

This is sounding better all the time!

[garry]

Rode most of the usual suspects in southeast Ohio yesterday.

The 50 miles from New Matamoras to Sardis (260, 537, 26, 800, 255) is stunning. Fresh pavement from last year. Mostly clean. Unrelentingly twisty. Not much civilization although some sections have houses along the road. No traffic. Not to be missed.

536 was dirty and had lots of super wide tar strips that ran the width of the road. Like they hacked the pavement up to run a pipe across the road or maybe fix a frost heave or something. The tar snake is over a foot wide at times. Very greasy in the hot sun yesterday. I hope ODOT fixes these nasty tar scars on an otherwise great road (once it cleans up after winter). 556 had a few of the tar scars as well, but didn't detract from the usual fun.

148, 8, 147 were good clean fun.

WV 250 is still beat up north of Cameron, but is in decent shape after the winter between Cameron and Hundred.

Awesome day on the bike.

[hurtin]

I want you all to thank my wife.  She has agreed to let me go over her birthday weekend.  I owe her big time.

[R Doug]

I want you all to thank my wife.  She has agreed to let me go over her birthday weekend.  I owe her big time.

We'll have to wait and see about this.  I haven't met you yet.  I could actually be upset your wife allowed you to make this year's ESTN after meeting you.  

[R Doug]

Awesome day on the bike.

That sounds like a great day Garry.  I spent the day in the dirt (er, mud) on the EXC getting practice for this weekend.

[garry]

We have a plan. ESTN 2011 will be held in Marietta, OH on Sept 16-18. More info here:

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,62219.0.html

[TriumphTiger1050]

I see it was NC in 2010, so I will remain quite!  But Sparta!  Only thing in Sparta is..............well, Sparta!  You need a town like Asheville to be quite honest and not because I live here but you have the BRP in so many directions; great eats; a modern progressive city; loads of hotels; the Biltmore Estate; nice long rides along the French Broad; just a little ride to "The Dragon"; mild climate; and lots of great beer joints with local bands that perform.

But I understand another eastern state this year.  

[servicerifle]

Sparta has worked very well for us...twice.  I could also recommend a list of 10 other little towns, but Asheville wouldn't be on the list.