#1 seller of bikes over 650cc to the 18-34 crowd?

[atadaskew]

Discuss.

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/04/harley-davidson-courts-the-youth-market-seems-confident-about-future/

.... what’s the best-selling brand of streetbikes to 18-34-year-old buyers? Honda, with its CBRs? Kawasaki, with its friendly Ninja 250R and race-winning ZX-6R? Surely, then, it must be Yamaha, because what red-blooded 21-year-old wouldn’t want to blast off down the road on the svelte and sexy YZF-R6?
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. The correct answer is actually Harley-Davidson.

Weird, most peeps here say it's only old geezers buying them....

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

[chilipeppernorm]

I question the premise on two points. One, except for the Sportser exactly what in the line-up price wise or appeal wise is there for the youth market? Buell was just getting it's feet set in the batter's box on this one when HD threw them in trash bin. Seems to me that the Sporty is the only "sport like" choice if you want an HD, and the number of 1000cc + twins in various configurations from Europe that will flog the Sportser on virtually every level including comfort, acceleration, braking, handling, and quality is quite large. Second, if HD is capturing the youth market, they must be buying and riding their new Harley's somewhere else other than the SF Bay Area cause I'm not seeing them.

[gradus]

Of course the #1 seller of bikes over 650cc isn't going to be the ZX-6R or YZF-R6.  

[xdavemanx]

Of course the #1 seller of bikes over 650cc isn't going to be the ZX-6R or YZF-R6.  

I facepalmed so hard at these figures I lost teeth.

Rerun the demographics at "250cc and up" and see what happens.

[atadaskew]

Of course the #1 seller of bikes over 650cc isn't going to be the ZX-6R or YZF-R6.  

 

 

[gritsngravy]

The split second  the heavy rains stopped  here in Nor Cal I was impressed with the sheer number of late model sport bikes that appeared in my neighborhood.   R1's, GSXR's, CBR's etc were out in force, nice machines with upgraded exhausts, wheels etc.   Had no idea so many guys had such nice rides tucked away.   Most of my neighbors are in their late 30's and 40's so maybe the tide has turned and the youth have discovered life in the slow lane.  

[Blunder]

I'd say it's about 50/50 around here. If the younger crowd that favors cruisers can't afford a Harley they've got their older Shadows, V-Stars and the like. The other half has the typical sportbike, usually blinged out with carbon fiber stickers, fender eliminators, neon lights and stuff.

One thing the majority of the younger crowd does have in common with each other is a marked inability to ride for more than an hour before having to pull off to the side of the road for unknown reasons. I think they have to socialize, or something. They also don't venture far from town. There is some of the best motorcycling in the world to be had around here but locals who grew up and lived their entire lives here can be heard to exclaim, "I've never been on this road before."  

[Jet Jock]

There are 3 kinds of lies:

White Lies

Damn Lies

Statistics

This is the latter.

Using statistics I can prove to you that Rhode Island is bigger than Texas.

By choosing 650cc for this, they've biased it BIG TIME to the HD side of things. Make it 599cc and the numbers would be profoundly different.

Gee, wonder who paid for this survey? Three guesses and the first two not beginning with "HD" don't count.

[DogBoy]

By choosing 650cc for this, they've biased it BIG TIME to the HD side of things. Make it 599cc and the numbers would be profoundly different.

Or even 649cc as the Ninja 650 engine is 649cc and the SV650 is 645cc.

[Kootenanny]

Make it 599cc and the numbers would be profoundly different.

You got any numbers to prove that?  Oh, gee, of course--you don't need to actually check, because you just know it's true!

You're apparently making assumptions about the youth market, and that mythical "I'm under 30 and MUST have a SUPERGSXRZZRRXX1500 sport bike" mentality is presumed to be hard-wired into every human brain at that age..? Mayhaps a discussion with some of the bike-buying youth in question would yield results of understanding.

I'm with frenchie, youse guys are making assumptions and talking out your asses.  The results of a survey don't line up with your beliefs, so...the survey must be wrong!

[Galo]

 

[BamaBiker]

I'm with frenchie, youse guys are making assumptions and talking out your asses.  The results of a survey don't line up with your beliefs, so...the survey must be wrong!
[/quote]

Its not that the survey is wrong, just that the guidelines biased the results.

[kevin_stevens]

I can't pull a single specific statistic out of that mess to agree OR disagree with.  They define the age group in one place, then some stat from 2006 in another, then say "all street models in 2008".  Then there's "market leader" vs "best-selling brand", which don't mean the same thing and they may actually mean "best-selling MODEL", which I could believe the Sportster is.

If Harley wants to convince itself or its shareholders it has a bright growth market going, that's fine, it doesn't affect me one way or the other.  

KeS

[Blunder]

Language.  

[Snowbird]

I thought for sure the answer was going to be Moto Guzzi.  

[JSharp]

I see a preview of their next product in the article. You can go 'riding' without leaving your garage. This should be a big hit with the 700 miles a year crowd -

That’s why a program called “Jumpstart” seems particularly effective. It’s a setup that allows aspirational consumers to “ride” a fully-functioning motorcycle strapped down to a stationary frame. They can start it up, shift the gears and gun the throttle without being tossed down the road. The rigs are in dealerships, but H-D’s people also take them to events like concerts, Ultimate Fighting Championship matches, or other extreme sporting events.

I've heard them described as not fast enough to throw you off. I guess they've made improvements...

[Bravo12]

"over 650cc" excludes the enormous amount of 600cc sportbikes sold to that demographic.

[919]

I have no problem with their numbers, if they say that is true and it is; doesn't effect me.  If they say their numbers are true and they are lying; doesn't effect me.

Are the parameters of their study specifically designed so that they could look good to investors?  What company doesn't?

 I will never forget the first day of my first statistics class when the professor described the art (not science) of statistics as "The dark art of mathematics".  There are rules in statistics just as in any other concentration of mathematics, however in statistics you pick and choose which rules you want to imploy and which you want to ignore in order to keep the data you want and get rid of the data that disproves your intended result.  

Some statisticians do not have an intended result in mind of course, they put together the parameters before hand like a true scientist and then see how the data fits together and what conclusions can be made.  Then a company like H-D can come along, look at it, and say "get rid of any bikes under 650cc becuase anything less than 650cc is not really a direct comparison to what we have to offer", then the conclusions of the study change to make share holders happy.

Like I said before, doesn't affect me.  I don't believe statistics unless I see all the data and the parameters through which it was pressed through.  When ice cream sales increase so does the murder rate; therefore ice cream is the cause of murder.

[SalsaShark]

A couple of things I found interesting

according to H-D’s data, which shows the number of 18-34 year-old riders is actually growing.

- well now we know who paid for the results

H-D became number one with young adults in the heavyweight (650cc and bigger, and yes, it includes dual-sports) category in 2006, and added all street models to its trophy case starting in 2008.

- 2006? Ok... 5 year old data?

Incidentally, I can’t confirm any of this data with the Motorcycle Industry

- So what good is it if it can't be validated?

These types of surveys always make me laugh. If you define the criteria by a strict enough standard, you get the results you want.  

Always reminds me of this:

[Geoff]

You're apparently making assumptions about the youth market, and that mythical "I'm under 30 and MUST have a SUPERGSXRZZRRXX1500 sport bike" mentality is presumed to be hard-wired into every human brain at that age..? Mayhaps a discussion with some of the bike-buying youth in question would yield results of understanding.

Good point. Folks who are obsessed with a sportbike mentallity will never appreciate Harleys.  

[SuperHans]

Since it's being used for marketing purposes, I'm sure the data says exactly what it was meant to say?

[Fourstring]

As the data point of the under 30 crowd, I'd say the majority of my friends who talk about buying a bike talk about Harleys.  But of those that actually buy a bike, they buy Ninja 250s.

[Spanky]

Economics at work. Lots of bikes I want (and have had).

I'm riding a $2600, 10 year old SV now.

Only because you have been banned by all the cool motorcycle brands. Moto Guzzi wouldn't even keep ya - Oy Vey  

[jeepinbanditrider]

I want an SV in the stable  

I see Harley sales climbing slight anyway due to the falling Dollar and rising Yen.  Just the market in general is not good for any motorcycle sales.  And the prices of some of the high end Japanese cruisers is getting pretty high.

[bomber]

I see Harley sales climbing slight anyway due to the falling Dollar and rising Yen.  Just the market in general is not good for any motorcycle sales.  And the prices of some of the high end Japanese cruisers is getting pretty high.

This may certainly be the case . . . .though I know of a large number of HD riders who would never consider anything else . . . the price of Japanese "competition" would never enter into their purchase decisions . . .

[atadaskew]

This may certainly be the case . . . .though I know of a large number of HD riders who would never consider anything else . . . the price of Japanese "competition" would never enter into their purchase decisions . . .

See now, that doesn't work anymore when Sportsters are often cheaper than their Japanese counterparts.
Harley makes a lot of bikes in the $7000-$14000 price range.

[tvpierce]

There is a HUGE population of males under 30 who feel the ultimate modes of transportation are pickup trucks, and Harley bikes.    To them, anything other than a Harley is a "rice rocket" -- and is of no interest to them.

[atadaskew]

There is a HUGE population of males under 30 who feel the ultimate modes of transportation are pickup trucks, and Harley bikes.    To them, anything other than a Harley is a "rice rocket" -- and is of no interest to them.

next thing you'll tell us is NASCAR is more popular in the US than Motogp.

[Orson]

With the clear understanding that I have no dog in this fight, and couldn't care one iota less who "wins" here, I just love the ongoing assumption that everyone who's awesome is on a sport bike doing 50,000 miles a  year in snow and rain and has raced 19 seasons before retiring undefeated, and only crusty old men are on Harleys and can't ride for shit, and never go anywhere but from bar to bar.

*yawn*

I seem to be able to end every ride with a smile, looking back on having fun, regardless of what I might have been riding at the time. Silly people.

that's a cross ya hafta bear

There is no issue with the bike. I think the issue is with the riders who fantasize about being hells angels. You might be an exception but, ya hafta admit that you are far outnumbered by pirates.

You don't see us over on the pirate forums whining because people say my stich makes me look fat  

[chilipeppernorm]

You're apparently making assumptions about the youth market, and that mythical "I'm under 30 and MUST have a SUPERGSXRZZRRXX1500 sport bike" mentality is presumed to be hard-wired into every human brain at that age..? Mayhaps a discussion with some of the bike-buying youth in question would yield results of understanding.

Actually Frenchman, with respect you're making assumptions about my position that my post doesn't support. My comparison was strictly about twins and nowhere did I mention or imply 4 cyl sport bikes. Since HD only makes twins I restricted my comparison to such assuming anyone wanting a HD must by default want a twin. I did choose the Sportster as that's HD's entry level bike and one of the few that isn't by default relegated to a feet forward cruising position. I'm not dinging HD, those who own, ride, like, or lust after HD. If one only wants HD, then HD is the only solution. I am pointing out that in the twin marketplace HD has deep competition on every level except zombie like product identification where HD is the undisputed king. As to the 18-34 demographic, I'm not seeing any appreciable numbers mounted on new HD's in my daily travels around the SF Bay Area nor from my 26 year old son who rides and his riding friends. Granted, we're not HD riders and my observations aren't scientific in any way.

I have no doubt as to a portion of new riders wanting HD, and I have no idea if new (to motorcycling) buyers actually take training and get their license first and then comparison shop via test ride or simply seek their dream ride/brand and plunk down their cash. Not all buyers in the 18-34 demographic have to be first time buyers, and for those who aren't and decide to comparison shop the twin marketplace in a given category they are going to have alot to compare and consider unless they simply must have a specific make.

[atadaskew]

There is no issue with the bike. I think the issue is with the riders who fantasize about being hells angels. You might be an exception but, ya hafta admit that you are far outnumbered by pirates.

Good thing no-one on farkled dp bikes riding down to the coffee joint is fantasizing about being filmed riding around the world.
Or all the power rangers on their ninja bikes pretendin' to be Rossi.

I'm guilty too of chanelling my inner Gregory Peck while I am buzzing around Venice on my 2 stroke Vespa...

 

[tvpierce]

next thing you'll tell us is NASCAR is more popular in the US than Motogp.

   Say it ain't so!

I think a lot of this boils down to urban vs rural cultures -- and by that I don't mean black vs white.  In a more urban area, the vehicle of choice for the typical under-30-male is a pimped, slammed Asian import with a fart can muffler and a sub woofer.  (the 4 wheeled equivalent of a tricked out 600cc sport bike).  In a rural environment, the typical vehicle for that same demographic is a lifted, V8, 4WD pickup. (the 4 wheeled equivalent of a Harley)
 

[MichiganMan]

Unpossible!  You can't look as cool in shorts and flip-flops on a Harley as you can on a Gixxer.  

Case closed.

[falconati]

Everybody says that kids my age are retarded...

[Fun Dog]

I facepalmed so hard at these figures I lost teeth.

:eek:That's what I'm talking about!  That's some face-palming right there boyeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[Scottyfizz]

My wife and I should be the perfect demographic for a Chrome Dream of some sort. Mid 40's with an{ahem}certain amount of excess cash flow.Alas we both find the {TM}Lifestyle absurd in the pale.
Meh.We all have our dreams.


Don't piss on my life choices and I won't laugh at your Live to Ride/Ride To Live lifestyle.

[Orson]

Good thing no-one on farkled dp bikes riding down to the coffee joint is fantasizing about being filmed riding around the world.
Or all the power rangers on their ninja bikes pretendin' to be Rossi.

The difference is that no one here is whining about being lumped in with the Rossi wannabes.

water off a duck's back.

as opposed to some who go into hysterics anytime someone mentions the word pirate in conjunction with Harley.

It's fine if you want to ride a Harley wearing a full face helmet and a 'stich. Just don't whine because of the pirate association  

[atadaskew]

The difference is that no one here is whining about being lumped in with the Rossi wannabes.

Well, lezzbe honest most people here ride bikes that, erm, have a protective layer of filth.  To match the stuff applied to their textile gear and hi viz helmet.

No way would Rossi be caught in such a get up.
 

[Espada]

Being that I turned 30 this past November, I still think I can recall my 20s.

Since I rode/ride with fellas in there 20s I have to tell you, they are NOT on Harleys in the DC Metro region.  That said, I have been riding since 2005 and my riding experience is primarily in this area.  All I can report on is all I have seen.  The breakdown goes something like:

If you are > 38-ish years old, you are on a sports bike

If you are < 38-ish years old, you are on a cruiser

Of course that is NOT the case writ-large, but it is what I have been seeing.

Hell, when I go to the big, multi-brand dealer in my area (Coleman Powersports) I can tell you this: the dudes in their roughly mid-30s and on down are certainly not looking at the cruisers on the showroom floor.

[atadaskew]

When I wuz in college in SoCal/LA, I remember some sorority girls squealing when they found out I rode a motorbike.
They asked what was the colour of my Harley.

They seemed to be less than enthusiastic when I told them my ride was a Kawi...

(1984 Gpz550 in 1988)

[Espada]

When I wuz in college in SoCal/LA, I remember some sorority girls squealing when they found out I rode a motorbike.
They asked what was the colour of my Harley.

They seemed to be less than enthusiastic when I told them my ride was a Kawi...

(1984 Gpz550 in 1988)

Clearly those are the girls you sleep with because of their mental acutiy!  

[Blunder]

Everybody says that kids my age are retarded...

You're 26. I've got teenagers.

Prove that thought wrong.  

[Tpoppa]

So, who is the #1 manufacturer of motorcycles over 70 hp?

[atadaskew]

So, who is the #1 manufacturer of motorcycles over 70 hp?

So, who is the #1 manufacturer of motorcycles over 70 lbft?
Posted on: April 27, 2011, 04:28:40 PM

Clearly those are the girls you sleep with because of their mental acutiy!  

College

Hot 18-20 year old girls

I wish I had a Harley then....

[jhawk]

College

Hot 18-20 year old girls

I wish I had a Harley then....

Back in my college days, my Honda CB350 was the ticket to meet the nicest hot 18-20 year old girls  

[tvpierce]

If you are > 38-ish years old, you are on a sports bike

If you are < 38-ish years old, you are on a cruiser

I think you have that backwards.

If I'm reading that right, it says "if you're greater than 38 years old, you're on a sport bike... and if you're less than 38 years old you're on a cruiser."  

Just sayin'.

[919]

I think you have that backwards.

If I'm reading that right, it says "if you're greater than 38 years old, you're on a sport bike... and if you're less than 38 years old you're on a cruiser."  

Just sayin'.

Yeah I noticed that too, but we all know what was meant.

[atadaskew]

Yeah I noticed that too, but we all know what was meant.

I dunno.

Seems to me it was accurate.  Seeing the over 650cc 18-34 crowd are into Harleys...

Then you have old farts buying sport bikes to convince themselves they're still young....
Ya gotta see the sport bike crowd at the Rock Store on the weekends before 11 am.  Old doods disguised by full face helmets and one piece leathers stretched to the seams...

[Rogue]

When I wuz in college in SoCal/LA, I remember some sorority girls squealing when they found out I rode a motorbike.
They asked what was the colour of my Harley.

They seemed to be less than enthusiastic when I told them my ride was a Kawi...

(1984 Gpz550 in 1988)

What part of SoCal/LA did you grow up in?  

I started riding around the same time.  Everyone I knew had sportbikes.  GPz's, GS's, and of course the Ninja 600R, GSXR's, and VF500F.  I had the Honda.  We were all of the same age and would attack Mulholland Hwy and others on our "crotch rockets".  I think that was the era of the term "Crotch Rocket"!  Seemed like it anyway.  The only H-D riders were the biker gang lookalikes.  There were no RUB's back then.  H-D's were vibrating rough sleds and only the older guys rode them--usually Vietham War vets.  The girls (and skanks) that we knew all liked the crotch rockets.  Yeah, they squealed when you went WOT!    We were the new generation that made the Japanese sportbikes king.  That was also around the time when H-D was screaming bloody murder that Japanese motorcycles were "dumping" bikes on our shores and convinced the US Congress to pass a tariff on anything below 750cc.  That's why Honda had the VFR750 and the VFR700!  The 750cc was roughly $1500 more.  H-D needed congress to save them from the Japanese because they could not compete on performance AND reliability!  

Has anything changed today?  Nope!

Today, I have NEVER seen a H-D being ridden by anyone younger than 30.  Never!  Not in SoCal.  I'm sure that's not entirely accurate but just go to a H-D hang out and look for a young guy in his 20's.  Plenty of those types of hang outs around where I live and ride.  Better yet, go to a local bike night.

If H-D's marketing research indicates that most 18-34 buy their bikes, then okay.  But how come I don't see this in SoCal?  Without a doubt SoCal is a motorcycle trend setter and has more motorcycles than in any part of the USA.  Is it different in other areas?  

[atadaskew]

What part of SoCal/LA did you grow up in?  

I went to USC.  

The sorority girls there liked Harleys.

Los Angeles is different than the deep south OC burbs...
 

[Rogue]

I went to USC.  

The sorority girls there liked Harleys.

Los Angeles is different than the deep south OC burbs...
 

Haha!

I grew up in Downey, CA.  Deep in the heart of LA county.  That's where my sportbike pose used to be.  We cruised around UCLA's Westwood on occassion.  But not USC.  Must be different areas.  

[Espada]

I think you have that backwards.

If I'm reading that right, it says "if you're greater than 38 years old, you're on a sport bike... and if you're less than 38 years old you're on a cruiser."  

Just sayin'.

You are right: I   the greater than and less than signs

It should be:

If you are < 38, sport bike

If you are > 38, cruiser

To the > 38 crowd I would add STs and ADV bikes

I do not consider my MTS1200S an ADV, it's an XL supermoto    That's how I can be younger than 38 and get away with it.

[Prubert]

It's fine if you want to ride a Harley wearing a full face helmet and a 'stich. Just don't whine because of the pirate association 

Whaaa......

[atadaskew]

Whaaa......

I see you in a 'Stich, and raise you in a full Dainese leather suit:

[jfurf]

Being that I turned 30 this past November, I still think I can recall my 20s.

Since I rode/ride with fellas in there 20s I have to tell you, they are NOT on Harleys in the DC Metro region.  That said, I have been riding since 2005 and my riding experience is primarily in this area.  All I can report on is all I have seen.  The breakdown goes something like:

If you are > 38-ish years old, you are on a sports bike

If you are < 38-ish years old, you are on a cruiser

Of course that is NOT the case writ-large, but it is what I have been seeing.

Hell, when I go to the big, multi-brand dealer in my area (Coleman Powersports) I can tell you this: the dudes in their roughly mid-30s and on down are certainly not looking at the cruisers on the showroom floor.

It's the same here in Atlanta. I'm 32 and I don't think I've ever seen anyone close to my age riding a Harley. Harleys are bikes for old hicks with red necks and beer guts who hate technology and furriners. I think they should just embrace that and not pretend to be anything else.  

I will say, though, it's fairly rare to see young/youngish people riding any bike at all. My generations was severely fucked up by the ridiculously risk-averse overparenting and general mollycoddling of the baby boomers (and it's only gotten worse in more recent years). All I ever hear when I mention to people that they should get a bike is "Oh I'd kill myself on that. It's too dangerous. I'd be scared. Car drivers are terrible. Blah blah blah."

I'm the biggest left wing commie pinko ever and even I agree with our fascist right-wing friends that sheltering kids from every little thing in life has turned younger generations into neurotic wimps who are afraid to take any risks in life.

[Prubert]

I see you in a 'Stich, and raise you in a full Dainese leather suit:

What, no knee sliders?    

[jeepinbanditrider]

I want to ride one of those  

[Jet Jock]

So, who is the #1 manufacturer of motorcycles over 70 hp?

They make that much power? Are you sure?

Better would be: 120 (just picking a number) decibels?

[JonS]

You're apparently making assumptions about the youth market, and that mythical "I'm under 30 and MUST have a SUPERGSXRZZRRXX1500 sport bike" mentality is presumed to be hard-wired into every human brain at that age..? Mayhaps a discussion with some of the bike-buying youth in question would yield results of understanding.

I also question this finding too. It is very seldom I see any young guys or women riding HDs. There are a huge number of Harleys that travel through our area.

I agree that the engine size used as a criteria is skewed.

[Baz]

I also question this finding too. It is very seldom I see any young guys or women riding HDs. There are a huge number of Harleys that travel through our area.

I agree that the engine size used as a criteria is skewed.

I would agree with you here also.

I do get to the odd bike night and you will seldom see anyone under 50 even looking at a Harley.

[Rampant]

Seems to me that when I see sportbike riders here (in the south) it is mainly Hayabusas and R1s and such.  Only newbs and responsible people ride the smaller bikes and those are usually still sv650s, etc.  

I've been on a few group rides and I would say that Sport bikes predominate until people start doing pair riding, at which point they just aren't as comfy.  

In cities like DC, I see a LOT of sportbikes.  Outside the city, I see an ever increasing # of cruisers.  You just don't need nimble if you are doing highway riding at sane speed limits.  And harleys are 'cool' as are other cruisers.  They are personal.  Sportbikes look like every other sportbike by every other manufacturer (granted, cruisers are getting that way too).

But if i go to a biker bar and I see 10 harleys, they are all clearly distinct vehicles by different owners, etc.  

Having ridden a few types of bikes, I see either low center of mass cruisers or lightweight standards being the best city bikes.  

The real posers are the people running around with their tricked out R1 who have never done a track day.

[BobW]

When ice cream sales increase so does the murder rate; therefore ice cream is the cause of murder.

  I have been a little more surly as of late when those pesky kids eye me leaving the Baskin & Robbins with my flavor of the month in hand.  

 HD, #1 with the youngsters??

 

[ABStrommer]

I am pretty sure that Harley outsells all other brands (in all age groups) in the important 882-884 cc range.

"over 650cc" excludes the enormous amount of 600cc sportbikes sold to that demographic.