Triumph Tiger 800 vs KTM 990 Adventure

[patl]

I spent a couple of hours yesterday at my local dealership looking for my next bike.  I've been looking hard at the new Tiger 800XC's, and while they don't have an XC demo on the floor, they do have a roadie.  They also stock KTMs, and while I wasn't looking much at the 990 Adv, I figured it would be fun to try it also.

The test loop they ask you take is unchaperoned.  You head east one freeway exit, get off on a a tight, twisty 2-laner, then back onto the freeway to the dealership.  It's probably 15 miles round-trip.

There were two guys in front of me in the Tiger demo line, so I asked if I could ride their demo KTM 990 Adventure first. 

To even the playing field, both bikes were white, so they should be equally fast.

A few lines about what I'm looking for.  I've been between bikes for about a year and a half after getting tired of my previous bike, a Harley Night Train that I had built as a bobber, which was lowered and with ginormous apes.  Great bike, but not the best for travelling on to say the least :eek1.  I had traded an '04 1150GS Adv for it.  I loved that bike too, and done a lot of miles on it, but at the time my two kids were very young and I realized that I wasn't going to be doing any Alaska trips anytime soon - so when my little brother finally found his Harley Fat Boy after years of saving money, I got the Harley bug again, and made the switch.  I also have a '93 Ducati Superlight that's currently being rebuilt.  I like quirky bikes, I guess you could say.  I love long rides, mostly on street, and don't mind freeway time as long as I'm seeing something new.  I ride year-round in Seattle, so I need something that's commuter-worthy in crap weather.  I have done Iron Butt rides, solo and rallies, and I want something that's capable of multiday rallies (though probably not the Big One any time soon).  When I had the GS, and before had a DRZ400, I loved exploring the dirt roads and trails of WA state.

I didn't expect to like the KTM much. I've read too many folks saying that the bike is crap on the freeway, at least compared to the R1200GS, and that it's really best at dirt and if you have to ride pavement to get to the dirt, so be it.

However.

Oh man, what a grin-maker.  The demo KTM had Akrapovic pipes on it, which is probably cheating, because they sound so good. 

The Tiger 800 is a strong bike also, actually a very nice bike, but I was surprised at how, uh, "generic" it felt. 

Some notes I made to myself:

KTM

• It had far better than expected wind protection. At 6', 200# with a 33" inseam, I was surprised at how much of my upper body was protected from the wind.
• I did note some backpressure on my head.  Not abusive, but noticeable.
• I loved how narrow the tank area was - it gave me a good lower body position.
• Reach to the bars and pegs was very comfortable.  Fit seems really good to my body.
• I liked being able to slide fore/aft.
• The KTM was a ton more fun than the Triumph at the engine (except for the last 1500rpm on the Triumph's tach, where it screams).  Just more usable.  more fun to turn into corners.  More fun to aim at the potholes.  A bit of an unfair ocmparison there, since I didn't ride the Tiger XC.
• Mirrors were surprisingly good but left side had vibes that blurred the view.  The right side was fine.  Both felt tight.  When you're demo'ing a bike on the freeway and you may theoretically be in triple digit speeds, it's unnerving to not have a good view to your rear for policefolks.
• This demo bike definitely had fuel surging issues.  It surged a bit off idle, and a bit in the 4k range also, I think.

And the Triumph

• THAT TRANSMISSION!! It's majestic.  I as absolutely blown away.  Now, I've been on Harleys and BMWs and Ducatis for many years, none of which have good transmissions, but still.  Wow.
• Engine up high, when revved, was a thrill.
• There is little front-back seat room - you're locked into one position and can't move around.  You're also pushed forward a bit.  Setting the front seat height adjustor to high and the back to low levels you out.  This could be fixed with an aftermarket seat.
• It was wider at legs, not uncomfortably so, but noticeably so.
• Shorter seat to pegs, even on high seat and with no footpeg rubbers.  Not as comfortable for the low body as the KTM.
• The wind protection wasn't nearly as good as the KTMs - both for coverage or cleanness of the air.  I'd want a wider and taller screen for sure, but upper body and shoulders are in the wind ay more.  That's fine on dry days, but in the rain, it gets annoying.
• The bar was weird.  It was both too flat (front-to-back angle) and too far away for my tastes.  That's fixable, but it was just an odd feeling.
• My demo bike's mirrors were wacky.  The left was loose and wouldn'tstay put; the right was aimed wrong and not movable.  I told the dealer about this on my return and they fixed it before the next guys.
• Counting myself, I saw 5 guys go out on Tiger demos, and only me on the KTM.

When I came back, I took out the KTM again just because... nobody else was in line, and I wanted to see if I had been too positive in my first ride.

Here's the bottom line for what I felt... The Triumph is a great bike. The transmission and engine was great.  The cockpit display was good.  The engine, when wound up high, was a thrill.  It was a bit boring till it got wound up, though.

The KTM was fun.  Fun fun fun.  Quirky, growly, oh-crap-now-I-have-to-see-if-I-could-actually-LIVE-with-one fun.

I'm a reading/research junkie, and I've been reading a ton here in the last day (and over on advrider's Orange Crush forum).

I need to go ride an R1200GS along the way, before I buy something, but I've been on them before and found them competent but not giddy-fun.  That's not a bad thing.  Just depends what you're looking for.

The problems for the KTM for my type of riding are pretty well known.  Valve checks are longer to do than on the GS, for example.  Gas mileage at mid-ish 30-s isn't great. There's a crapton of plastic to take off for most home maintenance.  I already have one fiddly-to-do-valves on bike, do I want another?

So, a few offhanded comments/questions to this board.

I actually called the service dept for this dealership on drive home to start checking into "just how maintenance intensive IS this thing, anyway?".  They quoted me ~$150 for the non-valve checks, and ~$500 for the valves.  They also said that the Triumph's valve service would cost about the same.  They said they usually do valves at 12k intervals on the KTM, though they're spec'd for check sooner.  Does that cost sound in the ballpark?

Fuel pumps and water pumps (both, or am I mistaken?) are the reliability worry, it seems in my last day's reading.  The newer bikes are supposed to be "better", but what does that mean - if I found a deal on a 950 which had a new pump, is that up to spec on '10+ bikes?

I see that the bike has a 450w alternator - which means that running Gerbings liners and also PIAA 910s for night lighting is probably out...

91 octane gas, right?  Not regular, but high octane?  Or are folks running 87 with no problems?

So... what should I keep in mind while I'm thinking about whether my head should follow my heart and start looking for an LC8 adventure and using it at least partly for long tours on the road in addition to exploring the dirt in the Pac NW?

[scottzilla]

I don't own either but the 800 was on my list for a short time.  
Good luck with your decision.  Adventures seem to hold their value pretty well which may help a little when it comes to writing the big fat check.

[R Doug]

Nice review on both bike.  Good luck with your decision.  

Regarding some of your questions, as follows is what I know about the 990...

Most people (me included) do 12K checks after your first one on the 990.

The water pump issue was fixed in 2008.

The fuel pump issue has more to do with an ill fit to the gas tank made by Acerbis.  My seal gave out at around 4-5K miles and the bike wouldn't hold fuel very well.  KTM fixed it with a new tank.

Now that I'm over 12K miles on my, the 990 seems to be broken in fairly well.  I'm starting to see high 30s to low 40s fuel mileage.  

The ONLY thing I don't like about my 990 is the fuel surging I experience around 4k RPM.  It is rare to occur, but annoys the crap out of me.

As for the crap ton of plastic, it's all a compromise.  The 990's twin fuel tanks pretty much make up the plastic on both sides of the bike.  But, with the two narrow and low hung tanks, you get a great light feels with the fuel sitting really low on the bike.  And, it make the bike very narrow.

Your description of the KTM as being a "grin-maker" is exactly how I describe it.  Regarding the people saying the bike is crap on the highway, just stay off the highway.    Seriously, you can make minor mods to the big KTM to make it more long-distance friendly.  I have and it's brilliant.  

[patl]

Nice review on both bike.  Good luck with your decision.  

Regarding some of your questions, as follows is what I know about the 990...

Most people (me included) do 12K checks after your first one on the 990.

The water pump issue was fixed in 2008.

The fuel pump issue has more to do with an ill fit to the gas tank made by Acerbis.  My seal gave out at around 4-5K miles and the bike wouldn't hold fuel very well.  KTM fixed it with a new tank.

Now that I'm over 12K miles on my, the 990 seems to be broken in fairly well.  I'm starting to see high 30s to low 40s fuel mileage.  

The ONLY thing I don't like about my 990 is the fuel surging I experience around 4k RPM.  It is rare to occur, but annoys the crap out of me.

As for the crap ton of plastic, it's all a compromise.  The 990's twin fuel tanks pretty much make up the plastic on both sides of the bike.  But, with the two narrow and low hung tanks, you get a great light feels with the fuel sitting really low on the bike.  And, it make the bike very narrow.

Your description of the KTM as being a "grin-maker" is exactly how I describe it.  Regarding the people saying the bike is crap on the highway, just stay off the highway.    Seriously, you can make minor mods to the big KTM to make it more long-distance friendly.  I have and it's brilliant.  

Thanks for your thoughts.

Would you recommend staying with '08+ due to the fuel pump issue?

What mods have you done to make your 990 more touring friendly?

I've been surfing ktm950.info and looking at the excellent stuff there.. great ideas there.

[R Doug]

The single best mod I have done to my big KTM to make it more touring friendly is getting a Renazco seat.  The other significant upgrade was the addition of a pair of tubeless wire wheels from Woody's Wheel Works with a 17" rear and 19" front.  

[Lon]

I loved the 2011 990 Adventure I took out.  It was agile, had tons of power, and was just all around a fun bike.  Turn-in was not "slow", like you'd expect with a 21" front wheel.

In some ways, I liked it more than my V-Strom, but not enough to swap my V-Strom for one ... yet.

[TwoTrackinFool]

 

BUMP

[crispiegee1]

To even the playing field, both bikes were white, so they should be equally fast.

It's good that you are scientific in your comparison.  

A few lines about what I'm looking for.  I've been between bikes for about a year and a half after getting tired of my previous bike, a Harley Night Train (....various details edited....)  I had traded an '04 1150GS Adv for it.  (....various details edited....)  I also have a '93 Ducati Superlight that's currently being rebuilt.  I like quirky bikes, I guess you could say.  (....various details edited....)   When I had the GS, and before had a DRZ400, I loved exploring the dirt roads and trails of WA state.

Incredibly open minded about the bikes you ride. Maximum respect, despite the lack of a triple among them.  

Some notes I made to myself:

(review followed)

Excellent summary of the bikes and their strengths & weaknesses! I had originally wanted a Tiger 800XC when it came out and love the sound of all Triumph triples. But compared with the F800GS, the Triumph doesn't seem to be quite as capable as a true dual-sport tourer.

Then, when the Tiger Explorer was announced, I thought, "THAT is the bike for me." However, when I sat on one at the dealer (no demo rides were available), it seemed obvious that it was a road touring bike with only a modicum of ability to go off-road.

Recently, the KTM 1190 Adventure was announced, though it won't be available in the US for some time yet. It seems like KTM really knows how to combine true off-road capability with on-road fun, with a bike that isn't much heavier than the Triumph 800, yet with more horsepower than the 1200. Plus, it supposedly gets 20% better fuel economy than the 990. I am a huge fan and can't wait to try one.

Is it possible to increase the alternator output on KTMs?

[garry]

I too am waiting for the 1190 Adventure to arrive. I talked to my local dealer and he said limited availability late in the season.

[Mac]

Any idea if you might like one of the BMW F800 series or a super tenere?

April 2013's Cycle World's Armageddon Tour picked the KLR650 as best all around choice, with the KTM 990 adventure as runner up.

[garry]

Any idea if you might like one of the BMW F800 series or a super tenere?

April 2013's Cycle World's Armageddon Tour picked the KLR650 as best all around choice, with the KTM 990 adventure as runner up.

Not sure if that reply was directed at me or not, but...

I rode a friends F800GS and didn't care for it. My knees kept hitting the crash bars. Just felt weird ergonomically to me. I should probably give it (and the Tiger 800) another demo when the 1190 shows up and I'm actually ready to buy something.

The Super Tenere, Trimuph Explorer XC, BMW 1200GS, Guzzi Stelvio are all quite heavy. The appeal of the KTM is it's (relative) light weight, combined with fully adjustable suspension, and 17/19 spoked tubeless wheels. The fact it make more power than any of them doesn't hurt the fun factor either. But that's just based on reading reviews. The jury is out until I can actually demo one. I thought I would love the Buell Ulysses but after 3 extended demo rides, decided it wasn't for me. The proof is in the riding. That's what hooked me on my current KTM 950 SMR.

If I am going to ride terrain too gnarly for the multi-cylinder ADV bikes, I have a nicely modded KTM 530 EXC for that. It's over 100 pounds lighter than a KLR and  has 50+% more power. Better everything. The KLR is a good pick as a single "do it all" bike for cheap, but thankfully I can have two bikes in my stable.

[falconati]

I too am waiting for the 1190 Adventure to arrive. I talked to my local dealer and he said limited availability late in the season.

   Not a great way to increase their market share.

[R Doug]

The Super Tenere, Trimuph Explorer XC, BMW 1200GS, Guzzi Stelvio are all quite heavy. The appeal of the KTM is it's (relative) light weight, combined with fully adjustable suspension, and 17/19 spoked tubeless wheels. The fact it make more power than any of them doesn't hurt the fun factor either.

I test rode the new BMW 650 GS Sertao at my local dealer last year when the BMW Factory Demo truck was in town.  Given the fact I picked up the used K1200S which I could use for touring, I believed the KTM 990 Adventure could be downsized to a smaller bike for my dual sport riding.  

I was underwhelmed with the 650GS.  Granted, I expected it to have less power.  I had no problems with the motor on the little GS.  It was the ergos, suspension, and price which didn’t add up to me.  Plus, at 400 dry, the 650 GS is ONLY 60 lbs. LESS than the larger 990 Adventure!    In the end, the Adventure was going to stay.  The KTM has a better suspension, better ergos, gobs more power and flexability, plus I already had the bike set up with everything I needed on it.   So, the Sertao was off my list.

That day of test riding BMWs did end up costing me.  I later test rode the R1200RT and decided I needed to upgrade the K1200S.  Of course, to pull off this upgrade, I knew both bikes would have to go in order to make the finances of it work as I have a no debt policy on acquiring bikes.  

Now my dual sport bike is the Ural.  That works for me.    

[black hills]

For what its worth on the 990 maint. issues:

oil changes can be accompished in 20 ish minutes with the simple addition of an oil tank drain hose ($20)

valve adjustments while time consuming are not bad (about the same as the CBR) and I have found the intervals to be a bit too frequent, I go every 15-20k now

other intervals really depend wether or not you ride on the street or the dirt.