Would you recommend someone to buy a Buell now?

[Rogue]

At the same time they were good with their replies about the matter.  They gave us 1 year extended warranty for free - the decision came about 6 months after I'd bought the bike.  It is more than a dump Buell attitude.

I've wondered if EB pulled an attitude that pissed off some of the board.  The squash an insect mentality can go with something that is annoying.  From what I have read EB is a really driven person.  The Blast coffee table may not have been something that appealed to H-D.

We had a Cycle World article here last year, written by a Buell/HD insider regarding the demise of Buell at the hands of H-D.  The article confirmed many of the rumors/leaks/assumptions/theories of H-D mismanagement of Buell from the development of the XB all the way to the end.  It's as bad as most people believed it to be.

If you read/watch how EB behaves in public when asked about his relationship with H-D, he is always extremely gracious and political.  I find it hard to believe that someone like that could piss off anyone in H-D corporate because he was hard to work with.  I find it more realistic that EB pissed off HD because he was driven to create the best and pushed the performance envelope of any HD product ever to come out.  With every product he released he made HD look like crap without saying a word.  He went against HD’s corporate mantra, which was to sell product on the basis of name recognition and nostalgia, rather than sell a product because it is better and innovative than the others.  Buell’s products had substance even down to its Accessories.  They all had a function.  Rarely did Buell sell anything that had no purpose other than to make you look bad-ass.  His bikes embodied the same philosophy—form followed function for the sake of a performance advantage.  

Anyway, I’m glad you are having success with your dealings with HD.  I will say this—don’t expect anything from a corporation like that.  At any moment, they can pull the rug from underneath you.  It’s in their culture.    

[Rogue]

The Buell ECM seems to be tricker with add-on devices than other bikes Rogue.  PC abandoned the one for the XB and some people are running approximate versions, and getting engine warning lights for O2 sensor always rich.  

Did you have an aftermarket system on the VFR or was it stock?  Honda are usually pretty good with tuning.

The VFR800 has stock everything except for the PCIII.  The PCIII came with the O2 Sensor plugs to disconnect it from the "loop".  No more emission-related programming to spoil the fun and the driveability of the motor.

[Bueller]

Bueller,
I'd be very curious to see your fix.  Several companies have taken a shot at 1125 rewinds with mixed results.  I agree that the super think coatings tend to hold in heat.

08 stators are rated at 432W and are solid.  09s are 520w and obviously generate more heat than can be managed.  Rewinding an 09 stator to 08 specs has been discussed quite a few times.  But there is more to it.  In addition to the 08 stator generating less heat, it is also a more effective heat sink.  The 08 spreads the heat across 18 poles, while the 09 has only 12 poles.  The 08 has more surface area to dissapate heat.  So, even if the 09 is rewound to near 432W, each pole will need to handle more heat than on a 08 stator.

Comparing the 2 side by side.   The 08 is clearly of higher quality:
08 - Machine wound, 18 pole, made in Croatia, looks just like other Rotax stators.
09 - Hand wound, 12 pole, not stamped with a country of origin (which probably means made in USA), looks just like other HD stators.

I'm sure there is a story behind that, and it ends with trying to cut costs, which is a goal for most manufacturing processes.

There were many articles on BadWeb about 08 batteries going flat in short periods with a bike not riden.  The higher output on 09 models was supposed to address that, and I am a believer that Buell attempted to address problems with every model they released.  I'd heard that the 08 stator was the highest output that Rotax recommended so Buell looked elsewhere, but the Buell world is full of whispers.

The 09 stator is 5x the price of other Buell / H-D stators.  Added to the cost of warranty replacements and the cost of paying dealers to install the bandaid harness upgrade it didn't meet any objective to cut costs.  It is possible that the retail value of the stators that H-D end up putting on my bike under warranty may exceed what I paid for the bike new.

The rewind I'm talking about doesn't look at the 08 spec. From what you have said it seems like the 08 is in everyway higher quality.  The rewind is to make the 09 stator more robust.  By using thinner wire the output is reduced and so it the heat.  The only place it is noticible is at idle where the charging drops to the high 12V.  Once you are riding you are in the high 13V - 14V output range.

[Bueller]

If you read/watch how EB behaves in public when asked about his relationship with H-D, he is always extremely gracious and political.  I find it hard to believe that someone like that could piss off anyone in H-D corporate because he was hard to work with.  I find it more realistic that EB pissed off HD because he was driven to create the best and pushed the performance envelope of any HD product ever to come out.  With every product he released he made HD look like crap without saying a word.  He went against HD’s corporate mantra, which was to sell product on the basis of name recognition and nostalgia, rather than sell a product because it is better and innovative than the others.  Buell’s products had substance even down to its Accessories.  They all had a function.  Rarely did Buell sell anything that had no purpose other than to make you look bad-ass.  His bikes embodied the same philosophy—form followed function for the sake of a performance advantage.  

+1,

But I wonder if he was always privately considered gracious and polite in the eyes of some of the board.  His reputation is to push what he believes.

One article I read on the Blast considered that Buell was being seriously ripped off in their production.  If the article is to be believed, the bike was fixed price and H-D engineers added to the scope without the price.  The article said that the Blast engine cost more to produce than Buell were being paid for it.  What was learned from the Blast was fed back into the XB so it wasn't lost, but basically the model was for H-D's perceived market gap.

H-D may have saved Buell but it couldn't be a marriage made in heaven.  EB has shown a lot of guts in starting again instead of waiting out retirement.  Most of us hope it pays off.

[Rogue]

Bueller, if I had that extra cash I would be in line to buy the 1190RS just to spite H-D.  In any case it is a great sportbike that is, as Cycle World described: a Superbike in streetbike trim.  Nice one and it vindicated Buell's philosophy that H-D so readily suppressed.  If you remember the article, H-D was so deftly afraid of competing with the Japanese sportbike manufacturers that they prevented Buell from putting a full fairing on the 1125R.  

What were they so afraid of?  Competition?  Go figure!  That is the corporate mentality in the motor company.  Fear of the competition.  That is not a mind set of a winner.  EB and his team had the goal of dominating the competition and when unshackled they proved they could.  That is what I refer to as the American Can-Do spirit.  I'm sure you can appreciate that as I believe Australians have this spirit alive and well within its people.  The Aussies don't like to take shit and that's what makes them a leader in their region who can stand up to others like China and India as well as Japan.  H-D's tactic whenever they are faced with stiff competition is to cry and whine about unfair competition from Japan then run to our government for help.  That is not a company I want to buy products from because the only team that had the true courage and capability to stand up and be heard in a tough market was the team they cut.  

Anyway, I believe H-D's handling of Buell and his team as well as Buell's faithful following will come back to haunt them someday soon.  Such short sightedness is no longer tolerated in today's globalized world.  You only have to look at GM, Ford, and Chrysler to realize this.  Even a giant like GM is no match for market forces.  

Finally, those who have met EB have all come back amazed at how genuine and generous he is.  Even moto journalists can't help but like the guy.  Someone like that can't be a jerk at work!    Demanding, maybe....but someone to get pissed off at, I don't think so.  Someone to respect and aspire to be, absolutely!  You don't generate that much goodwill be burning bridges.      

[Squidbuzz]

So back to open/closed ECM stuff.  Which tune is used from the factory?  Because the stock pipe and ECM aren't too bad.

[Bueller]

So back to open/closed ECM stuff.  Which tune is used from the factory?  Because the stock pipe and ECM aren't too bad.

The factory has to meet emissions standards so it has to be a closed loop tune.

You're right - the factory tune isn't a bad tune.  It will have been developed by Daniel Hurda, a tuning guru and in particular the Buell tuning guru.

It is a tune that optimally balances performance and compliance.

The Buell mufflers are good too.

[Brad1445]

Who did the firs 2008 tune that was on the first bikes sold?