EBR Planning a 250cc Street Bike?

[Schneegz]

From Asphalt and Rubber:

Several sources have now confirmed that Erik Buell Racing is considering making a 250cc learner-style motorcycle to compliment its EBR 1190RS race/sport bike. Presumably filling the niche left behind by the crushed Buell Blast, the 250cc bike would be geared towards new and first-time riders, and would likely be MSF RiderCourse friendly. With bikes like the Kawaaski Ninja 250R / EX250 topping the sales charts as the best selling sport bike in the US, the folks at Erik Buell Racing are surely eyeing the market potential of a smaller, lightweight sport bike for the company’s growing product line.

I don't know how credible this article is, but you can read the rest at the link.

[Tpoppa]

They'd be smart to expand into other motorcycle markets.

How many manufacturers could survive on just sportbikes?

[veefer800canuck]

Hope it's a better bike than the B-last.

But with the HD fuddy-duddies out of the way, Erik can finally build WTF he wants with nobody reigning him in.

[Kootenanny]

I, for one, would be interested.  If Buell made a sub-750cc version of the 1190, I'd be very interested...

[Tyrroneous]

Would be cool to see an EBR 250.  But Erik better hurry, isn't KTM going to bring their baby Duke over to the states?  The 250 sporty market is quickly filling up...Kawasaki, Honda, Hyosung, KTM and possibly EBR.  Would make for a good shoot out.

[Rincewind]

Err... They're gonna need dealers first.    

A Boutique-Priced beginner bike will fail, and I really doubt they have the production capabilities to make a competitively priced bike.

The listed source is Bothan Spies?  WTF?

[Rincewind]

Would be cool to see an EBR 250.  But Erik better hurry, isn't KTM going to bring their baby Duke over to the states?  The 250 sporty market is quickly filling up...Kawasaki, Honda, Hyosung, KTM and possibly EBR.  Would make for a good shoot out.

Don't forget the rumor of the Triumph Street Single 300cc out of a new Brazil factory.  It is set to be a global-market bike like the Honda CBR250R.

[DogBoy]

Agree with Rincewind.

a) How do you compete for an entry level bike against the economy of scale available to Kawasaki and Honda (each offers a few models in that range) without farming everything out to China or Taiwan?

b) What kind of market is there for a high-spec 250cc street bike that might cost seven or eight thousand dollars or more?

[Tpoppa]

Not sure about a 250, but a small displacement, affordable, American beginner bike could gain a few fans.  Despite it's flaws and half-a-hardley motor, Buell managed to sell over 20,000 B-lasts.

I'm still waiting to see what the EBR dealer network is going to look like.  For me, that will play a huge factor in whether or not I would consider an EBR motorcycle.  

[2DFlyer]

And I thought such an offering is meant to introduce you to a brand so when it's time to move up you won't move out to another mfg.  But where's there to go from the 250?  I doubt many would make the leap from beginners bike to the 1190 performance or price points.  Maybe EB has designs to fill in the gaps with a couple of stepping stones incl the de-contented 1190RS.

[TonyKZ1]

I was kinda hoping to see a improved Blast, around 500cc, a bigger tank, 17" wheels, etc.. Oh well, I guess we'll wait and see what happens.
Tony

[Roadscum]

Agree with Rincewind.

a) How do you compete for an entry level bike against the economy of scale available to Kawasaki and Honda (each offers a few models in that range) without farming everything out to China or Taiwan?

b) What kind of market is there for a high-spec 250cc street bike that might cost seven or eight thousand dollars or more?

Now there ya go, spoiling things with facts!!

[falconati]

Yep, agreed - there's no business justification.

[Tpoppa]

Yep, agreed - there's no business justification.

There may be.

A small American bike could make headway as an MSF class mule.  They could also sell them with gauranteed trade in value toward a future EBR purchase (Hyundai does this now with cars).  I'll be curious to see what EB has up his sleeve.  

Of couse none of this will matter without a strong dealer network.

[Cricket1]

b) What kind of market is there for a high-spec 250cc street bike that might cost seven or eight thousand dollars or more?

I dunno, there seems to be plenty of market for the 'Merican made cruisers with 1950's technology, selling for $20K or so.

I bet some of these riders would gladly pay double market value of a Ninja 250 to have their wives or girlfiends ride a starter bike that  wasn't a "rice grinder".     God forbid you ride a rice grinder.   Better to not ride at all then be seen on one of those.

[Dan K]

The only reason the Blast sold in such high numbers is becaise the HD dealerships bought them for rider education classes.  Ever seen one on the street?  I haven't.

- Dan

[DogBoy]

I dunno, there seems to be plenty of market for the 'Merican made cruisers with 1950's technology, selling for $20K or so.

I bet some of these riders would gladly pay double market value of a Ninja 250 to have their wives or girlfiends ride a starter bike that  wasn't a "rice grinder".     God forbid you ride a rice grinder.   Better to not ride at all then be seen on one of those.

That same mentality considers an 883 Sportster as barely acceptable for street duty.

If Erik Buell can build a bike priced competitive with Honda or Kawasaki on the low end or a high spec bike 250cc performance bike, more power to him. It would be a great bike as he builds bikes that are fun to ride. I just don't see it happening. I'd have no problem being proved wrong. It happens all the time.  

[Kootenanny]

The only reason the Blast sold in such high numbers is becaise the HD dealerships bought them for rider education classes.  Ever seen one on the street?  I haven't.

- Dan

I've seen more than one Blast, and I live far from any major urban area--or any Harley dealership.  In fact, there was one for sale here a year or so ago, I considered getting it for my wife.

[Dan K]

I've seen more than one Blast, and I live far from any major urban area--or any Harley dealership.  In fact, there was one for sale here a year or so ago, I considered getting it for my wife.

I've been wrong before, but I stand by my guess that the majority of sales were for rider education.

- Dan

[Kootenanny]

I've been wrong before, but I stand by my guess that the majority of sales were for rider education.

- Dan

Oh, quite possible.  But not everyone hates them.  Over on the main Buell forum, there is a section devoted to the Blast, and you might be surprised at how loyal (and inventive) some of the owners are.

[Cricket1]

That same mentality considers an 883 Sportster as barely acceptable for street duty.

If Erik Buell can build a bike priced competitive with Honda or Kawasaki on the low end or a high spec bike 250cc performance bike, more power to him. It would be a great bike as he builds bikes that are fun to ride. I just don't see it happening. I'd have no problem being proved wrong. It happens all the time.  

I agree, it would be great if Buell made a 250cc or so bike. Probably some Blast owners would consider it.  The other positive would be to show N. American riders that you do NOT need 1100cc to have fun, and be able to actually go places. 

Your comment on the 883, or skirtster as it is mockingly called, is very true. Part of the reason is because of how under powered it really is for its displacement. Lots of Harley guys think a 250cc bike must top out at about 50 mph and be completely useless for any state hwy, etc.  Most would be amazed at the performance of either the Ninja 250 or new CBR 250. The fact these bikes can do 80-85 mph, lots don't believe.

[Kootenanny]

See, I'm thinking of something along the lines of a CBR250R, with a Rotax engine (maybe 350cc?) that'd handle like a Buell and look kinda like a little 1190...then, a bigger version, maybe around 750, to slot in the middle...that'd be a good lineup!  Of course, price points and dealer network might be a killer...but, Buell does have a history of partnering (which is how he got involved with H-D in the first place...hmmm...maybe he doesn't wanna go there...).

[Schneegz]

I'd rather see a line-up of 500cc single-cylinder bikes: a sportbike, a streetfighter and a lightweight adventure bike, all under 400lb ready to ride.  I'd like the adventure bike.  Unfortunately, there's probably very little market for any of them.  Well, maybe the adventure bike.

[xcsp]

Interesting to see what the future models will be from Buell.

On his site: http://www.erikbuellracing.com/        

Click on "motorcycles" and it lists some future model letter designations.

[JTM]

Yeah, I know I'm dragging something up that will probably never happen; but when you think about this and the partnership with Hero. Unique Design and Engineering + Hero's factories + what name recognition Buell has. An ERB250 might be Hero's doorway to selling bikes in the US or just a way to liven up their product lines overseas for yet another bike that doesn't make it to our shores.

[bomber]

any affordable beginner bike can only be justified by very healthy sales numbers . . . of either the beginner bike itself, or as a loss leader, supported by healthy sales of the rest of the line up . . . . .

limited dealer network = limited sales . . . .

EBR has planned multiple models all along, ever since this incarnation of his business  . . . . it'd be aces to seem those plans come to fruition . . . .

although the luxury auto market is thriving in this economy, I don't know if there is an analogous luxury-priced motorcycle market (that isn't a chopper concern {which, mercifully, seems to be shrinking}).