Shaken confidence and post crash feelings.

[Jason F.]

I love riding and working on motorcycles. It is by far one of the most stress relieving, peaceful, and enjoyable things I do in my life. I do understand that riding on the street is not without risk. We do what we can to mitigate those risks but there is no eliminating them. We wear the proper gear to protect us in the event that something happens. Many people take riding classes to help us become better and safer riders. Most skilled or experience riders talk about developing a sense or instinct about the actions of other motorists on the road. Even though those are the real facts of motorcycling I have never cared for the cliché comments such as There are two kinds of riders…. Blah blah blah or Well you dropped your bike and got that out of the way. I think those comments paint an inaccurate picture or in some way serve to remove/make light of the responsibilities and choices of the rider regarding safety.

I personally have been down once and it was a fairly minor event with no real personal injury and minimal damage to the bike. I have also had close calls were my pace or speed began to creep beyond my skill level yet I managed to avoid an incident. I know it slowed me down and it took some time before I felt comfortable in corners again. I still to this day corner more tentatively than many people since I seem to have a tough time judging corner speed or more specifically safe corner entry speeds in relation to the sharpness of the corner. I am ok with that and have no ego or illusions about being the next Valentino Rossi. I am fairly content to just follow the age old rule of slow in, fast out but I would like to be a better rider.

All that said I am having a tough day today after watching a close friend wreck in my mirror. I came through a corner and thought it was a bit sharp so I looked back to see how my traveling partner was doing only to see him on the ground and the bike spinning in a cloud of dust. I got stopped and as I ran back to the scene I could not see him moving down in the ditch. It was easily the worst and longest couple hundred yards of running of my life. Fortunately I found him conscious, alert, and without broken bones. He was a bit banged up but still able to get up and walk.

I could not really sleep last night and today has been hard. I feel responsible on many levels even though I know that our choices are our own as adults and even my friend tells me it was not my fault. I somewhat introduced my friend to motorcycling. I took him to a motorcycle festival a few years ago, I gave him copies of all of my moto magazines when I was done with them, I shared stories of my trips with him, and just generally planted some seeds. I helped talk him into taking the MSF class to get started this year. I loaned him gear to use until he bought some of his own, in fact he crashed in one of my jackets. I sold him my first bike as his first bike. Finally I invited him to join me on a trip to a vintage motorcycle festival this weekend and lead the entire way. It was during our return trip that he crashed while following me into a corner. I was setting the pace even though we were both very much on the same page about riding your own ride and within your own comfort/skill level.

Today I sit Monday morning quarterbacking and questioning my desire to ride. I can’t see giving up motorcycling completely but I could very much see limiting my involvement in it to some degree. I can see just tinkering on vintage bikes in the garage, going to a few bike festivals or shows, maybe even doing a bit of vintage motorcycle racing or a track day a few times a year. I sit on the edge of a fence that on one side has me selling my street bikes and on the other has me trying to get past these day after blues. I had ridden over 4000 miles in the last 30 or so day incident free but yesterday really seems to have spooked me. The sight of my friend crashing made my stomach sink and my heart race. Right now it is hard to imagine throwing a leg back over a bike.

I put this in Beginners Garage because my friend was a newer rider and it seems to have shaken the confidence I had about my own skill level a bit. I do not really have a question regarding my situation and maybe I am just sitting and thinking too much today but I felt like getting some of my thoughts down and sharing them here.

[1KPerDay]

I know how you feel. But no matter how you feel, you are not responsible. Keep telling yourself that. You can't accept responsibility for his mistakes, or the circumstances that caused his crash.

I've watched 3 people crash in front of me. I have no desire to do it again. For a while I refused to ride with other people. I still don't ride with new/inexperienced riders, based partly on these experiences. I did feel somewhat responsible at the time... however, they are in control of the throttle, they made the decisions they did.

Only you can determine whether you want to limit or give up riding. I will say that the less you ride, the more likely you are to crash when you do. Your skills get rusty.

 Get back on the horse. If you truly have it in your blood you won't be able to avoid it, so you might as well enjoy it. That's my opinion.

[Rincewind]

You experienced some trauma so your feelings are quite understandable.  I would have some beers to help relax.

I have been through a number of shitty situations involving bike accidents.  It has caused me some severe pain and some loss.   None of that has ever been easy.  I ended up not riding for a few years after healing from some bone breaks.

But now I come from the same school of thought as 1KperDay:  If you're gonna be a rider you have to keep riding regularly to remain fluent and ride safely.  I'd keep working on those corners and learn to keep up your corner speeds at speeds appropriate to the available sight lines and the abilities of your bike. 

 "The Pace" is a good philosophy for sustainable riding.

[veefer800canuck]

I was seriously trepidatious once I got riding after my wreck, and it was 9-10 months inbetween wrecking and riding again.

Every intersection looked like a minefield to me.

I've since gotten past the mental block, but I sure do ride easier now, not that going apeshit on the throttle had anything to so with my crash, because it didn't. But still, it makes one notch it back a tad, that's for sure.

I've always got the "What if?" elf whispering in my ear now. I still enjoy riding, but I'm scanning more, covering the brakes more, and wicking it up less.

It's natural. Once bitten, twice shy. That's why I can't believe how determined world class racers must be to push through injury. Wreck hard in race one, and go on to podium in race two. Wow. I'd be shitting cinderblocks for a week.

[miles]

I've wrecked on tye road three times in over thirty years of riding, and two of those were way back at the beginning of my career. The most recent was this spring.

To me, a wreck is not a cautionary experience, but rather amlearning opportunity. I do what I can to analyze what went wrong, and then do what I can to improve onthe I stint or technique that failed me.

My philosophy is that I *could* wreck at any given moment, so when it does happen to me or a riding partner it is no great surprise or in fact of any great importance, other than the harm it caused. Mentally, there are no repercussions. Just a simple risk assessment and management exercise.

I've come very, very near to dying on a number of occasions while riding. Once I was famously caught on video plunging off a cliff- but you know what? As soon as the cast was off and I could ride again it was business as usual. It never occurred to me to stop, because nothing in my mental state had changed. I'd gone into it understanding the risks, and knowing I was willing tomaccept them.

[Jason F.]

Thanks for the comments folks. We shall see what tomorrow holds and how I feel in a few days. I will say that it is a bit strange to me that I actually was much less affected by my own lowside a few years ago than by this event. I got back to riding as soon as I fixed the bike in that situation. I was a bit tentative and slow but at least I was back on the bike quickly.

I have also witnessed some seriously crappy stuff in my life including two industrial accident deaths, a nasty compound fracture, and a man who burned from the knees up after sparking an improperly grounded APU while fueling it. I had to put that guy out with a fire extinguisher and he dies a month later while still in the hospital. I can only assume that because my riding partner who crashed was a very close friend it is affecting me much more than the horrible things I saw happen to people I barely knew.  

[napper]

It sure sounds like you introduced your buddy to riding in a responsible manner:  encouraging him to take the MSF course to start, loaning him gear, etc.  He had a lot better start than a lot of guys who jump on the latest EGO-R 1200, twist the throttle and go.  I'd also bet that more than anything you said or did, it was obvious to your friend how much enjoyment you got out of riding (this can be hard to hide sometimes) and he wanted some of that, too.

Also, the dude got up and walked away, right?  As others have said, take the lessons this has to offer to move on.  It sounds like you were pretty honest with yourself from the get-go about the risks of riding so this couldn't have been a totally unanticipated event.

All that said, you know best if you are willing to (continue to) accept the risks that come with riding.  Maybe its time for an honest re-evaluation and move on from there however YOU believe is best.

Good luck.  Give your still-among-us friend a hug.

[gradus]

Make sure to go out for a ride before you focus on these feelings.  I wrecked this year after a nice long stetch of not crashing.  I wish it wasn't on a 3 month old bike, but it was totalled and I had a cracked shoulder blade.  I bought another just like it.  It took taking another ride on the new bike before I really regained the enthusiasm about riding.  

Being more tenative is a good thing for me.  My wreck 'suddenly happened' right at my turn in point due to unseen gravel that left me sliding.  I need to be less trusting of the road surface at my turn in point since I tend to go bonzai into a turn and flick the bike faster than what's suitable on the street.      

[GilaMonster]

I've wrecked on tye road three times in over thirty years of riding, and two of those were way back at the beginning of my career. The most recent was this spring.

To me, a wreck is not a cautionary experience, but rather amlearning opportunity. I do what I can to analyze what went wrong, and then do what I can to improve onthe I stint or technique that failed me.

My philosophy is that I *could* wreck at any given moment, so when it does happen to me or a riding partner it is no great surprise or in fact of any great importance, other than the harm it caused. Mentally, there are no repercussions. Just a simple risk assessment and management exercise.

I've come very, very near to dying on a number of occasions while riding. Once I was famously caught on video plunging off a cliff- but you know what? As soon as the cast was off and I could ride again it was business as usual. It never occurred to me to stop, because nothing in my mental state had changed. I'd gone into it understanding the risks, and knowing I was willing tomaccept them.

Miles,

I am in complete agreement with you.  Risk is to be managed.  Having ridden over 150K miles over the last thirty years,  I had two small slow speed wrecks in my younger years, and was rear ended by a Honda Accord while stopped for a left turn about five years ago which totalled a 10 month old BMW K1200S.  Each incident and near miss has caused me to analyze what to do differently, but there are some things you cannot control.  The rear ender by the Honda Accord would have hurt if I had been in my dually.

Everyone is different about risk.  If you don't like it, then limit what you do, but it will never go away.  I liken it to my buddy's grandfather that died from smoking, but that was because he was hit by a truck while in a sidewalk.

[bomber]

You experienced some trauma so your feelings are quite understandable.  I would have some beers to help relax.

I have been through a number of shitty situations involving bike accidents.  It has caused me some severe pain and some loss.   None of that has ever been easy.  I ended up not riding for a few years after healing from some bone breaks.

But now I come from the same school of thought as 1KperDay:  If you're gonna be a rider you have to keep riding regularly to remain fluent and ride safely.  I'd keep working on those corners and learn to keep up your corner speeds at speeds appropriate to the available sight lines and the abilities of your bike. 

 "The Pace" is a good philosophy for sustainable riding.

Rince is correct here -- you might even liken your feelings to a minor case of PTSD, so your introspection and spookedness are both understandable.

As others have said, you are not responsible for your buddy's riding, well or not. He is.

You ARE responsible for yours, though, so be mindful, and rational, and ride (or not) as your spirit moves you.

[M.Brane]

 I had a similar experience once. Luckily the curve he lowsided on had a large run-off area so he simply dusted himself off, picked up the bike (undamaged-gotta love old UJMs), and we continued on.

 Shit happens. It's OK, and quite natural to try to figure out what went wrong, but don't beat yourself up over what you cannot control. You might consider doing some more advanced riding school though. Never hurts to improve one's skill level.

[cbsnbiker]

Jason, I'm glad that your friend came through so well from his mishap.

Here is my question for you: what about your experience with your friend's mishap is making you seriously consider giving up your own motorcycling?

You don't have to answer publicly, of course, but perhaps it will help you understand the emotions you are experiencing.

[Windblown]

I used to get mentally stirred up when someone crashed on a ride I was on, especially if I was leading.  A few things helped cure this:

1) Lots of repeat experience with others crashing on a ride. I came to the realization that shyt happens and I'm not responsible for what someone else chooses to do or not do. (I don't know the exact count of on the scene incidents buts it's well over a dozen)
 
2) Taking it down a notch on the street. I still tear it up a bit based on those funny advisory signs in the corners but I tend to save the truly stupid antics to the dirt bike while off-road.

3) Not riding as hard when around others. I have a sufficient sense of my own mortality to know when to let someone that wants to run a hotter pace go, not everyone does. Still their fault if they crash, but I do try to limit my time sitting on the road waiting on an ambulance by not constantly encouraging a pace they maybe shouldn't be riding at.

4) And most importantly: The simple acknowledgement that riding, especially at a spirited pace carries risk. I try to midigate that risk to some degree but in truth the elevated risk is part of the appeal for anyone that doesn't plod along at the speed limit. Being in search of fun with use of the throttle hand carries risk regardless of whether we admit to it or not.

[cbsnbiker]

Bump.

JasonF, how are things going?

How's your friend?

How's your riding?

[ChrisZRX]

How does your friend feel about continuing to ride?

I just crashed on 10/22/11, and I'm sitting here with a broken ankle and out of work for 5 more weeks. My bike is totalled.  As soon as I found out it was totalled I went down to the stealership and put a deposit on another bike.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't in the emergency room asking myself, "What the hell and I doing?"  I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little spooked.  But I can't give it up over this.  

I know exactly why I crashed.  An accident is a number of factors coming together for the perfect storm.  The main cause in my case was inattention.  

The other factors were a curve just over the crest of a hill, which I didn't see.  Coming up over the hill unloaded the suspension, combine that with cool temps and the rear wheel didn't have much grip.  Consequently, applying the rear brake caused a skid which messed up my line.  ABS would have probably avoided the crash too. We weren't going very fast, had we been going faster my attention would have been focused on the road, etc. etc. etc.


Regardless, had I been paying attention it never would have happened. I'm not sure what to tell you, but from one who has crashed *I* think you should continue to ride. I will.

[Jason F.]

Bump.

JasonF, how are things going?

Not that good. Work is sort of kicking my butt and I have had some medical issues lately.

How's your friend?

In good shape. The bruising is almost completely gone as is the soreness and stiffness. He is walking normally again and does not seem to have any permanent damage to the knee or foot. The foot was ugly and he was actually very lucky to have had heavy leather work boots with steel toes on that day.

How's your riding?

I have not thrown a leg over a bike since that day. I have thought about it and come close several times but things kept getting in the way. Weather turned a bit here and we have had more rain than I would like. With the work schedule I have not really wanted to ride in the dark since I am leaving home in the dark or pre dawn light and coming home well after sunset. Normally I do not mind riding in the cold but lately the idea of leaving just before dawn on cold damp misty mornings is just absolutely unappealing.

[bomber]

it's supposed to be fun, man -- if it's not, no reason to force it into your life.

[Jason F.]

How does your friend feel about continuing to ride?

He is disappointed in his mistake. He understands what he did wrong for the most part. He was having an absolute blast right with riding right up until the point he left the pavement in a horizontal fashion. He does want to ride again but for financial and family reasons he is going to wait just a bit.  

[schmii]

I was in a similar situation with a friend on the third long day of riding.  I upgraded my firstgear TPG so he could start out with really good gear and he took a course.  It was the end of our first riding season together.  The daylight was disappearing and we were trying to make a ferry.  There was an unmarked corner and my friend froze making a corner and continued that bend off the road in my rear view mirror.  I would have been shattered but after a night of bsing in the hospital, a few ferry rides and days of traveling together 2 up with two bikes worth of gear (oh it was ridiculous) we worked through any uncertainty the other rider had about riding.

If you're concerned about what the other rider is thinking or feeling bring it up.

After that I was very wary of riding with other people and I have a habit of watching my mirror after every corner.  I can guarantee my stomach does a backflip whenever any rider falls off their line, stop and talk about it often without the other rider knowing about it.  That wrenching fear diminishes with time but I'll always watch.

hmm... two other incidents

Near the end of the season awhile back I hit black ice on a pass.  The bike high sided and slid a few hundred feet.  I was able to pick the bike up and head home, hop right on the bike but after the incident... any rock mid-corner, pine cone, bump anything would set me into panic mode.  At the beginning of the next season I imagined snow on the sides of the road and had a fear of slippery conditions for the first couple months.

I had a driver come through the stop sign of a side-street and hit the back half of my bike catching me completely unaware.  The months after had a subconscious swerve from vehicles coming from side-streets before I mentally noticed they were there and what I was doing.   two months after I'm fairly back to normal.

Similar trends?  two months of trauma.

[DRam]

Shaken confidence - been there.  Three very close calls over a few weeks time caused me to park it for a year.  Only when the flashbacks stopped was I able to ride again.  That was close to 35 years ago, and I've ridden ever since.  

Give yourself time, and when you're ready, climb back on.

I agree with those above.  You did everything right.  But even when we do everything right, stuff happens.  Your friends know it, we on the site know it, and eventually you will too.

Hope you heal soon.