MotoGP Off-Season (pre 2012) Thread

[motodog650]

Thought we needed a place to gather for off-season news and thoughts...

Good write up from motomatters about 2012 rider line-up as it stands now along with some strong possibilities: http://tinyurl.com/bpd6x54

Looking like there may be about as many CRT's on the grid as there will be MotoGP bikes...

 

[Dan K]

Isn't MotoGP going up to 1000cc bikes? Quick read of the article talked about racing Suzuki 800's?

- Dan

[garry]

As I recall, 2012 is a transition year where 800s, factory 1000s and CRT 1000s were all eligible.

[Warchild]

There is some amount of hate/discontent among the riders if MotoGP is indeed forced to use the Claiming Rule Team formula.....

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2011/Nov/111108p2aciua.htm

[motodog650]

Isn't MotoGP going up to 1000cc bikes? Quick read of the article talked about racing Suzuki 800's?
- Dan

Been a lot of talk whether Suzuki will be back for next season. If they are they will run the 800 at least the first half of the year (probably with DePuniet)...

[Dan K]

A mixed class with prototypes and "mostly" production bikes will be VERY interesting...  Seems to me there will be a bigger disparity in the bikes as there is already.

What's the new prototype Honda 1000cc bike - won't it kill all production based competition?

- Dan

[1000lbs]

I thought Andrea Ianonne and team were making the move for 2012  .

[veefer800canuck]

The CRT bikes are to be alotted a bunch more fuel than the factory prototypes.

Apparently this will allow them to make the corner entries more manageable by dialing in extra fuel at zero throttle settings, reducing engine braking, and keeping the wheels in line.

Maybe we'll get some flamin' exhausts like the Foggy Petronas bikes in WSB.  

[kendenton]

Wonder if we'll return to the days of dealing with lap traffic?

[Mookie]

Wonder if we'll return to the days of dealing with lap traffic?

Yes.  Especially in the first half of the season.

[motodog650]

In AMA you have to qualify within 110% of pole time to make the cut. Wonder what the rule is in MotoGP ?  Don't remember it ever being an issue in the past. The CRT's at the test were well within that of Pedrosa's fastest time. But I have to wonder if at tracks like Qatar and Mugello where you have wicked fast long straights will the possible 15+ mph top end difference (along with other variables) possibly put the slowest CRT's outside the bubble if a similar formula exists ?    

[Mookie]

I don't think straight line speed will be the issue with the CRTs.  They'll be theoretically able to make more power than the GP bikes, with the additional fuel.   It'll be the whole, going around corners thing that'll take em some sorting.

[veefer800canuck]

Yeah, power is easy to make with loads of fuel.

It's getting USABLE power, and having a chassis to get it to the ground effectively while giving sweet feel from the front end that's the trick.

[motodog650]

It'll be the whole, going around corners thing that'll take em some sorting.

Thats part of what I was getting at with "along with other variables". It might not happen but this new formula will throw out a few curve balls during the 2012 season. Just thinking if it could happen it would probably be at tracks like I mentioned in my O/P but not at say Laguna or Valencia for instance.  
 

[stk0308]

In AMA you have to qualify within 110% of pole time to make the cut. Wonder what the rule is in MotoGP ?  Don't remember it ever being an issue in the past. The CRT's at the test were well within that of Pedrosa's fastest time. But I have to wonder if at tracks like Qatar and Mugello where you have wicked fast long straights will the possible 15+ mph top end difference (along with other variables) possibly put the slowest CRT's outside the bubble if a similar formula exists ?    

As I recall the MotoGP cut off is 107%.

[tomek]

I don't think straight line speed will be the issue with the CRTs.  They'll be theoretically able to make more power than the GP bikes, with the additional fuel.  

Well , no , those are production based engines , they are not gonna outpower prototypes  fuel limits or not .

There is not one single reason why CRT bikes with their  heavier engine internals and fuel loads would outhandle factory bikes .

The fastest CRT bike was 4 seconds off pace at Valencia , in average race it would get lapped "only" once . Obviously with more testing they are gonna improve but realistically it is gonna take a while for them to get to WSBK machine level . Superbikes are about 2 seconds slower then old 800 machines .

CRT bikes are not gonna challenge 1000 prototypes , at least not under 2012  rules .  

[veefer800canuck]

Just because they have production based engines doesn't mean all the internals are also production based. In Superbike, there is only so much you can do to the engine internals. It is far from stock, but I think the GP CRT bikes could go further internally than SBK.

We will see. They are gonna need about 240hp to even hope to stay in the draft of the prototypes.

What does a good SBK engine put out anyhow? 220?

So maybe tossing SBK internal engine rules, they could find another 10-20 HP I hope???

Hell, they could put a custom machined cylinder head on a set of modified production barrels and cases! Try that in SBK and see how fast the scrutineers kick you off the grid.

[tomek]

Just because they have production based engines doesn't mean all the internals are also production based. In Superbike, there is only so much you can do to the engine internals. It is far from stock, but I think the GP CRT bikes could go further internally than SBK.

Yes , but you cannot overcome physical dimensions , like bore spacing , width  and diameter of crank journals , placement of cam drive , etc . Production engines have certain limitations .
On the top of that there is 30 Euro G claiming   for powerplant . There is no fricking way you can build competitive in MotoGP engine for this amount of cash . You cannot even build superbike motor for that amount of cash .

Why would factories spend all those millions for prototype engines if they could instead just modify their production motors and be done with that ?

CRT bikes will make good cannon fodder , they might beat satellite teams here and there from time to time but will not challenge factory bikes .    

[mugwump58]

In AMA you have to qualify within 110% of pole time to make the cut. Wonder what the rule is in MotoGP ?  Don't remember it ever being an issue in the past. The CRT's at the test were well within that of Pedrosa's fastest time. But I have to wonder if at tracks like Qatar and Mugello where you have wicked fast long straights will the possible 15+ mph top end difference (along with other variables) possibly put the slowest CRT's outside the bubble if a similar formula exists ?    

IIRC 107%

[stk0308]

Why would factories spend all those millions for prototype engines if they could instead just modify their production motors and be done with that ?

Because WCM already proved Dorna won't allow that years ago.