Smaller, Lighter, Cheaper Harleys...

[Rincewind]

...may be on the way per the HD COO.   Is this when Harley turns from being niche custom bikes to Global bikes?


(Reuters) - Harley Davidson Inc's (HOG.N) chief operating officer Matt Levatich said the company will offer motorbikes that are more "physically and financially accessible" to buyers both in the United States and abroad, but it will continue to keep its manufacturing operations almost entirely in the country.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/12/us-manufacturing-summit-harley-idUSTRE7BB25Q20111212

[Biking Sailor]

Thanks for the link, interesting.

I was a bit taken back on his view that India, for example, "grew up on bikes" but they are only looking at that market as "Leisure" and not basic transportation.  Seems they think they can do well only selling to the weekend rider and not the masses that are commuters, where I thought the traditional market was.  I would think a smaller version of their lineup, with low maintenance and solid reliability would be an attractive offering in the India's and China's of the world.

I wish them luck and success.

[bomber]

HD goes into the smaller and cheaper market about once a generation . . . the efforts succeed to a modest degree, and then, historically, the US economy recovers well enough to boost the sales of their core products, and they get out of the smaller cheaper market.

Had they been strategically serious about this niche, they had a pretty good wedge into it 2 or 3 years ago, and 86'd it.

I, too, with the company success.

[Rincewind]

HD goes into the smaller and cheaper market about once a generation . . . the efforts succeed to a modest degree, and then, historically, the US economy recovers well enough to boost the sales of their core products, and they get out of the smaller cheaper market.

The last time that they made small engine bikes (less than 500cc and NIC Buell) was the 1950-60's Hummers, no?  It seems they have skipped quite a few generations there, or were there others?  I know they made 750's in the 1970's, but those aren't very small.

[bomber]

The last time that they made small engine bikes (less than 500cc and NIC Buell) was the 1950-60's Hummers, no?  It seems they have skipped quite a few generations there, or were there others?  I know they made 750's in the 1970's, but those aren't very small.

Don't forget the Aermachhi (sp?) produced Sprint 250s and 350 of the 60s and early 70s . . . .

From the same factory they sold back for a dollar a couple of years ago, oddly ;-}

[Xanth]

"Physically and financially accessible" is vague enough to be useless.

Levatich said India represents a considerable opportunity for Harley-Davidson bikes -- which he considers to be strictly a "leisure" product -- given the acceptance of motorcycles in that market.

[Biking Sailor]

Thinking about it, a 500cc pushrod V twin with belt drive (low maintenance) in a semi-light weight scrambler format would be kinda cool.  Bet it would give Enfield a run for their money if done right.

[bomber]

Thinking about it, a 500cc pushrod V twin with belt drive (low maintenance) in a semi-light weight scrambler format would be kinda cool.  Bet it would give Enfield a run for their money if done right.

Perhaps, but not in India -- Indians are very, very proud of Enfield -- they are the bike most riders aspire to, occupying a simialr niche as HD in the states.

[County Tar]

Do you see them using the Blast engine?

As despised as that bike was by the m/c press it was actually kind of a fun bike, in a retro way.  I could see them using an updated version of that engine in a lightweight frame, but only if they kept the ergos straight up and not foot forward.

[phoenix]

The COO only opens his mouth to try to get the stock price to improve. Him and the investors are f'in clueless.

[bomber]

Do you see them using the Blast engine?

As despised as that bike was by the m/c press it was actually kind of a fun bike, in a retro way.  I could see them using an updated version of that engine in a lightweight frame, but only if they kept the ergos straight up and not foot forward.

Actually, those who owned Blasts that weren't beat to death loved em -- we had one in our motr pool for a couple of years, and it was the 21st Century moral equivalent of a Honda 305 . . . . . .

[spd2918]

Actually, those who owned Blasts that weren't beat to death loved em -- we had one in our motr pool for a couple of years, and it was the 21st Century moral equivalent of a Honda 305 . . . . . .

A small, good handling thumper with fuel injection.  What's not to like?

[Frankienuckles]

Not picking on harley's at all as I like some them, but I think they sell a lot if not most of their bikes to people who want a "Harley" specifically and primarily because it's a harley. As such I wonder if these smaller bikes will get the same cold shoulder as the Buell's did from many harley riders and dealers. I don't think this will matter as much in eastern markets. It would be ok if there was a little fresh thinking in the motor company. Good luck to 'em and even better if they are made here.

[X1Glider]

5 years ago when HD was talking about entry level Sportys, I thought they might spoon a Blast engine into one.  Maybe even scale the chassis down a litlle.  Could have brought some of the size 0-4 women into the market.  Obviously it was only my dream.  It's not like the Blast was a bad bike.  I enjoyed the ones I rode.  Made me giggle because they were so maneuverable even though they were gutless.  A larger bore one could have powered an entry level sport easily.

The HD race department used the Blast engine (I'll say that they used an interpretation of one) in their TT bikes instead of the 750 twins like in the flat trackers.

[bomber]

A small, good handling thumper with fuel injection.  What's not to like?

Stock Blasts were carbed --

Still and all, other than having a case of the uglies, they were great scoots . ...

[Biking Sailor]

Why on Earth would anyone think putting a Blast engine into the existing Sportster frame would be viable and worth the effort?

You people already think the 883 is a gutless wonder. Having actually owned one, I think they deliver power just wonderfully. But there is no room in that heavy package to decrease power and make it remotely palatable. The frame, wheels and suspension are just too heavy for a 1/2 sized thumper to feel good. The Blast was just fine as it was.

I was thinking the other way, shoehorn a 883 (or similar configured smaller motor such as a 500 or 600 V twin) into a 400#ish scrambler type set-up.

[TuffguyF4i]

If they want to be competitive, they are going to have to make a product that can stand on its own two feet apart from the shielded badge HD.  
I'm 33 and i don't think they have done that in my lifetime.  

[bomber]

If they want to be competitive, they are going to have to make a product that can stand on its own two feet apart from the shielded badge HD.  
I'm 33 and i don't think they have done that in my lifetime.  

Actually, I think they have.

If you can get over the marketing BS (and it is here that HD is their own worst enemy), the big twin touring bikes are very very good mile eaters, so long as those miles are paved, and not Deal Gap.

That most of the folks that purchase HD products are recovering members of the High School AV Club in no way detracts from the usefulness of the bikes . . .

[bomber]

I agree that is not going to succeed in the market place . . .

I wonder (but know enough about the tax code) if it could be a nice way to improve their tax stance . . . . . I dunno.

I DO know that HD never, ever sticks with product offering outseide of their core product line . . . .few with any sense of history (or the ability to use the internet) will be rushing to buy something that the parent company will desert toot sweet.

[County Tar]

I think a lightweight classic thumper would sell.  There is no need to shoehorn an 883 V-twin in one; all that adds is weight and complexity.  Take the Blast motor, juice it up a bit and keep the total bike weight below 350lb.

[spd2918]

Stock Blasts were carbed --

You are correct.  The lack of a choke threw me off.

[Frankienuckles]

But for the most part, Harley-Davidson make up one of the very, very few pure motorcycle manufacturers

I thought they also made alot of clothes, doo-rags, belt buckles, coffee cups and other genuine accessories.   Just kidding!

[Baz]

Reuters) - Harley Davidson Inc's (HOG.N) chief operating officer Matt Levatich said the company will offer motorbikes that are more "physically and financially accessible" to buyers both in the United States and abroad, but it will continue to keep its manufacturing operations almost entirely in the country.

Selling in China (and that will be their target market) is not going to be easy. Just ask GM, China just hit them with a whole whack of new taxes. (You can do this in China)

So my bet is that Harley will soon be manufacturing things there, and in order to make any impact into that market once they get addicted to volume, they will soon loose their made in America goal. Especially once the ageing boomers stop buying in North America.  

When I was in Thailand, I saw some sales numbers on Honda's 125 dream. They sell something like 3 million units a year alone in that one tiny country.

Now think China.

Over a billion potential buyers in a much younger market for potential, especially when their current market is drying up. No one successfully sells anything in China for long unless part of it is made there, and you hand over your technology. The cost factor is huge as not many Chinese middle class cab afford any current made in America Harley models.

Potentially, HD in a successful drive, could make more proffit off one affordable model in Asia, than they ever could selling in the current US market. Of course it is not going to be easy because a 120 lb Chinese guy would be intimidated by a 700 lb Road King, so they are going to have to carve our a new niche there.

Just about any fortune 500 company is in or wants in the Chinese market, and if Harley gets into that market by selling made in America products, they would be one of the very few ever to do it.

I mean even Boeing makes things in China now.

[bomber]

You are correct.  The lack of a choke threw me off.

Without wishing to kick a man while he's down, there was, in fact, and automatic choke . . . to make the whole thing easier for newbs, who were the target audience.

;-}

[TuffguyF4i]

Actually, I think they have.

If you can get over the marketing BS (and it is here that HD is their own worst enemy), the big twin touring bikes are very very good mile eaters, so long as those miles are paved, and not Deal Gap.

That most of the folks that purchase HD products are recovering members of the High School AV Club in no way detracts from the usefulness of the bikes . . .

Yes, but you can buy a similar cruiser for much less money from the japanese.  The badging adds $5k to the price.

[bomber]

Yes, but you can buy a similar cruiser for much less money from the japanese.  The badging adds $5k to the price.

I'll grant you similar, and also agree that the badging leads to full retail, but the aftermarket loves the daylights outa HD, while it seems to be mildly fond of the big 4 cruisers . . . .I write "seems" as I have no diect knowledge of this stuff . . . .

[spd2918]

Without wishing to kick a man while he's down, there was, in fact, and automatic choke . . . to make the whole thing easier for newbs, who were the target audience.

;-}

The lack of a manual choke lever threw me off.  Are you happy now, Mr. Blast expert?  

[County Tar]

When starting, the carb had a nasty habit of backfiring and blowing the rubber boot off air intake, if I recall correctly.

[Rogue]

Selling in China (and that will be their target market) is not going to be easy. Just ask GM, China just hit them with a whole whack of new taxes. (You can do this in China)

Many of China's best selling cars are made by GM (in China).  Buick and Chevy are big overy there.

This last new tariff that China passed was for non-Chinese made cars with big engines.  It mainly hits high end cars not only from GM but other makes.  According to industry news, the cars it affects will not lower the sale of Chinese made GM cars, only high end cars bought by wealthy Chinese whill not blink at paying the extra tariff.  The Tariff is symbolic to counter a US Anti-dumping law of cheap Chinese goods into the US.  Most cars sold by GM/Ford in China are made in China for the Chinese market.  GM also has a joint-venture with a Chinese automaker there.