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Topic: You all know you're screwed now, right?  (Read 7887 times)

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Lawn Dart
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« on: December 27, 2011, 08:13:30 PM »

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j288/rnovielli/photo.jpg

 Bigok


Yeah, I bought a Duck.  LMAO!  I've been wanting a Monster for years now and the fates aligned at the right time to let me do this.  What an absolute HOOT!

Y'All may regret this day!   Lol

Here's an email excerpt I sent to a friend of mine.

****
I realized that it's been about seven months since I've ridden with any real intent...riding in "anger" as they say.  Drop the hammer, roll the throttle in the exits, explode through 100 and keep it pinned to 130+...

Nope, didn't do that at all today.  I'm one rusty fucker...even have 3/8" chickens on the tires.

The Duc is raw.  It judders and shudders and vibes and twitters...you can hear the valves tapping and rattling through the cam covers and the belts grind and roar with the exhaust.  

You can get "small" on this bike.  Really tuck in, get tight and duck under the micro-fairing and catch virtually zero wind protection.  Still, the seating position is good, easy on the knees, comfortable reach to the bars.  Instrument cluster is just out of visual sight...can't see how fast I'm going but then again with Italian electronics I'm betting it's very optimistic.  

Suspensions not very compliant over 70 mph...and right proper jumpy at 100.  The throttle is sharp and hyper-sensitive.  Snatchy...but sharp.

But it's riding.  Unadulterated riding.  Simple riding.  No tank bag, no saddlebags...no electrics and no storage.  I can barely get a flat repair kit in the tail - and I'm not kidding when I say that's pushing it.

No, It's not a Vincent...and I've never ridden on one...but I think you can see it from here...

300 mile days are good on knees, better on the wrists, but the seat puts a bit of pressure on my right hip socket.  Might be pressure on a nerve?  Dunno, it's been a long time since I've been on an OEM saddle, I'll put a few thousand on this one before I make any changes.  Honestly, I love the looks and lines of the bike so much that I'm rather loathe to make any changes.  Heck, I don't even want to put a GPS on it, much less a tank or tail bag for local 500 mile days.

I can't wait to get the suspension fully dialed in, a couple track days and a good ole' Monterey Madness or WCRM ride in!  

 Inlove

Good Times.   Thumbsup
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« on: December 27, 2011, 08:13:30 PM »

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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 09:38:42 PM »

 Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove Inlove

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« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 09:40:15 PM »

I did a lap around Robert's neighborhood on the new bike- I have to say it's as fun to ride as it looks!

 Bigok
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2011, 10:54:35 PM »

Excellent choice.  I have ridden that series Monster and it is a real blast, like an enraged bull.  I appreciate your comments about the rawness and elemental aspect of that bike.  I have a crush on the Monsters as well and drool on each one I see, though I have selected its Triumph brother in arms instead (though the Triumph Triples are less raw by a degree).  It is interestingly at the other end of the spectrum from your GS, which it looks like you're selling.  I wonder if you had considered the new Speed Triple ABS as a former Speedie owner.

I am curious what your impression is of the safety package on that bike including the traction control and whether it is invasive or transparent.  I love the swing arm and look forward to some pics outside of the living room.  Enjoy!
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2011, 12:10:53 AM »

Congrats. I've only ridden one Monster and it was a 600.

Felt like a really well-running 500, power-wise.  Lol

But the bigger models should be great.
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Lawn Dart
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2011, 12:11:02 AM »

Rince,

Thank you for the comments.  I was trying to figure out exactly how to talk about the decision process to buying a Monster over other bikes and hadn't quite put my finger on the right intro!

But, thanks to you!   Bigsmile

Special thanks to Miles, James, Rusty, Ken, Vern and especially my WIFE as well as the rest of my friends of who have had to endure my often detailed OCD anal-retentive decision making process.  

Let's start with my basic street bike requirements:  MUST have ABS.  MUST have reasonable Ergo's.  MUST be LIGHT.  MUST be relatively "minimalist". .  And MUST be a bit...unusual...perhaps a better word might be more on the "unique" side.  

Anyway, if you take just the first three requirements the field of potential bikes gets horribly small.  ABS + Ergo's is a brutal combo - and candidly that weeds the vast majority of bikes out instantly.  Toss in "minimalist" and "light" and the field becomes small...and make it somehow unique?  

In the end there were three potential bikes.  BMW's R1200R.  Triumphs Speed Triple 1050.  Ducati Monster 1100 EVO.  

Special Mentions:  Aprilia Tuono (*no ABS...sigh).  VFR 1200 (weighty).  K1300S (shades of Christine anyone?).  A return to my beloved R1100RSL (no, I need not spoil my fond memories...).

*Wha?  No J4 (Japanese big 4 manufacturers) bikes made the final cut?  No, sadly.  I'm just not a J4 fan.  They make great bikes (and their Yamazaki Single Malt really is quite good!) but they leave me remarkably numb.  That, and the J4 makers don't do much in the leg-room department.

Right, ergo's.  I'm 42 and my right knee is, well, weird.  It gets numb if it's at the wrong angle.  Pretty much anything this side of 78 degrees.  Yeah, I've figured that out.  I spent hours on cycle-ergos.com checking numbers.  For instance, a K12/13S is 78 degree of knee...but a VFR is 76.  My buddies VFR kills my right knee in 30 minutes.  But the K12 was 400 mile comfortable.  Go figure.  

Anyway, back to riding impressions.  In order of test rides...I give you:


2012 Triumph Speed Triple 1050. (Compliments of SoCal Brea Triumph)
Man, I so wanted to love this bike.  I had an '01 S3 for a little while and the '12 S3 certainly is a huge departure...and yet so familiar.  The seating position, the engine, the ergo's...yeah, I know this bike.  The suspension and chassis were a HUGE improvement over the '01 and I really felt like it was up to the occasional track day.  The seating position was, literally, all-day comfortable.  

And yet the S3 was the first bike that got cut even before any other test rides.  Why?

The ergo's just don't put enough weight over the front tire.  This came back to me so quickly on the first freeway on-ramp.  It's far too easy to sit straight up on the bike...this seating position also meant that it's harder to tuck down and even harder to position against the wind.  Miles has always told me that wind isn't a problem under 70 mph - he's right.  Problem is, I live in SoCal - 70mph means you're a target.  I got buzzed doing 85 the other day near Pendleton.  

The other thing is the engine.  It just doesn't do it for me.  Oh sure, makes GREAT power and it just sounds awesome, but the absolute linearity of the motor also makes it boring.  Yep, boring.  It's so 100% totally predictable that it's boring.  3k rpm feels exactly like 9k rpm, just change the HP output.  There's just no peaks and valleys to know what the motor was doing.

Honestly, I was disappointed.  Engine character is a big, big deal and it's just not the right character for me.


Ducati Monster 1100 EVO (compliments of Ducati of Newport Beach)
So Ducati of Newport had a tarted up Monster (full Termi's  Drool) ready for demo.  How could I say no?  I jetted down to Newport right after the S3 ride and handed over my license and insurance for the test.  

Key in the ignition and the Termi's boomed.  Yeah, that's too loud for the street!   EEK!  But dayum!  That sound!  deep resonance that vibrated in the chest.  I couldn't help but blip the throttle and enjoy the thunder.

Ease the clutch out and...there's shit for power below 4k.  LMAO!   Lol  Fueling is fluffy, light, kinda like a nice meringue pie.  The clutch is a tad grabby but that might well be because the bike is showing less than 200 miles on the clock.  Gearbox is light and clicks quickly into place.

Here's what I remember:  the smile.  I was grinning from ear to ear!  The sound, the instantaneous throttle response, the smooth gear transitions, the revised rev limiter (which absolutely sucked ASS on the 2007 model!) was very nice.  I felt the road...the pebbles, the asphalt transmitted right to my hips and hands.  Seating position was sublime...I could hold the bars with no weight on the wrists - just a perfect blend of "sport meets comfort" - gee, imagine my surprise when I discovered the ergos were virtually identical to BMW's K12S?  

But is it perfect?  The engine was a bit raw and rattley, and it vibed below 4k (*but smoothed out perfectly at 5k-7k).  There was real engine character with the vibes.  I KNEW what the motor was doing and where it was.

I got the rear brake a few times and the ABS felt very close to the BMW R12GS that I have.  I didn't get the traction control to engage but I wasn't trying quite "that" hard on the street.  

Sitting at a stop light, listening to the exhaust booming, all I could think of was "Damn, this is a BIKE."  Unadulterated bike.  Two wheels and a motor.  

Other things I really, really liked:  the electronics package in general is really sweet.  Volt-meter, count-up fuel counter, ABS, 4 stages of Traction Control, Data-telemetry tracker (just add plug in), lap timer (yeah, that's actually a big deal to me), built in battery tender.  I'm sure there's more...but a lot of this was stuff I wanted on a bike as an "add on".


Next up!  BMW's R1200R Camhead Motor.  (huge compliments to Brown Motorworks)
Yeah, you just KNEW I'd have to toss in a BMW, right?   Lol  But I've always liked this bike and just loved the look of the black and white 'classic' model with spoked wheels.  The ergo's looked too upright and the saddle gets largely panned on the web for being too restrictive but hey, they're just plain inter-web reviews, right?

Ok, let's talk about Brown BMW for a second.  Not my usual dealer but then my normal shop didn't have an R12R to demo.  My conversation went kinda like this:

Me:  "I'd like to test ride this bike"
Brown:  "Sure thing.  Drivers license and insurance please"
Me:  "Yep here you go.  What's the route?"
Brown:  "Be back by 4pm."  (it was 10am...)
Me:  "Seriously?"
Hands me the key.  "Yep.  If you don't mind, would you please return her with a full tank?"

Serious kudos to BMW for understand what a test ride is all about.  I set out for an Ortego 160 mile loop.   Bigsmile

The BMW R12R.  Really, I wanted it to win.  I love BMW and they do great bikes.  Another day and another time and I can see this bike in the garage.  Heck, I can see it as a compliment to the Monster right now.

So how can two bikes that are so similar in mission be so different?

First things first:  the Motor.  Goodness!  R12R Camhead boxer motor is FABULOUS!  No question, this is THE motor to beat of the three.  It makes POWER from 2500 RPM and just flat rips.  Totally communicative motor - you know exactly what the motor is doing.  But the vibes!  Oh the vibes!  They are the BEST and HIGHEST quality vibes I've ever felt on a twin of any kind!  Seriously.  Just go ride one.  I don't know how to explain it.  They are massively refined vibes - smooth, not shocking, gentle even.  The kind of vibes that can take you 1000 miles in a day with no effort.  

The Camhead motor is far and away much more refined and more powerful than the previous R12 generation motor.  It is THAT significant and noticeable.

Ok, the suspension.  I've long stated that Telelever might be the BEST street suspension out there.  I stand by this statement.  It's fantastic.  Sure, it gives up a bit of feel - the bike is definitely a bit disconnected compared to the Duc.  But it handles like a dream.  Light and precise handling that isn't harsh.

The gearbox is great.  No issues at all.  Easily on par with the Duc's.  Dead smooth and the gear ratios on the R12R were flat perfect.  Which is damn good thing because you can't change final drive ratio's!  

Motor?  Yeah.  Handling?  Yeah.  Gearbox?  Yeah.  

And then it fell apart for me.  Oh it was close.  Soooo close.  If I wanted to do more touring, this bike wins.  Period.  Electric grips and an e-vest plug are a big deal.  But...

This bike needs a different seat.  I couldn't believe how close the pegs were to the seat!  Really, the specs don't do this justice.  The angle of the pegs under the seat also put my right knee to sleep in just over 2 hours.  I felt that knee for the next two days...and that was just a 160 mile ride!  

Oh, the seat.  Right.  It locks you into one position and one position only.  Can't move around on the saddle, can't really hang off.  Tough to body shift.

Add a small windscreen and the ride position might work, but directly in the wind it was far too upright.  I took a huge amount of windblast in a very upright position and it made it hard to hang on at speed.  

But...and here's the final nail.  The bike felt like a juggernaut.  It picked up speed and held onto it and didn't want to slow down.  Momentum.  For a bike weighing barely 20# more than the S3 I was stunned.  Transitioning from throttle to brakes and you felt every single pound.  Compared to the Duc, well, it was spooky heavy.  (*for the record, the R12R is at least 75# lighter than my GS...go figure.)

If I had a small windscreen and intended to tour, this bike would win of the three.  It was the EASIEST to ride.  Seriously, it was easy.  Benign.  You didn't think much of it.  Just twist it and go.  And then my mind wanders...I can add a GPS, set of Foggies, Farkle-Box under the seat, spare e-vest hookup and a USB charger, head covers, hardbags...

Feck.  Why bother to sell the GS then?   Crazy  And why bother with all this Frippery?   Embarassment

The new Camhead is a peach of a motor and far and away is the best motor of the three.  


And the Duc Wins.  Not because it's the fastest (S3), or has the best sorted suspension (S3 for sport, BMW for tour), or the best motor (BMW).  Sure, the Duc wins on looks (gee, surprised?) and it wins on ergo's (seriously???).  But the Duc also wins for being connected.  I literally felt hardwired to the bike - I just KNEW what the bike was doing.

The Duc wins because it FEELS like what MOTORCYCLING is all about.  I remember talking to Doc Gil a few years back about his Guzzie..."You know, I love this bike.  It rattles and hums, and it's not really all that comfortable.  But it handles great and I don't care much for days over 250 miles anymore anyway.  It's the motorcycling experience that counts and this bike does it for me."

Piss on you Gil.  I just got old like you.   Twofinger

The Duc also wins for one more significant reason:  Garage appeal.  Five years ago I used to hang out in my garage and lear at my beautiful R1100RSL.  I loved the lines, the look, the feel.  It was yellow and it was mine.  I knew where every stripped fastener was and every silly nuance was.  The frayed leads and more.  I loved that bike.  It railed with sportbikes and toured with Goldwings.  I bled for that bike and it bled for me.  I would go to the garage with a nice scotch and just sit in a chair with a rag...and do nothing.  My wife would laugh at me...asking if I wanted a blanket to keep the bike warm.  

I have never looked at the GS that way.  Never looked at the S3 that way.  Never looked at the ZX11 that way.

I just took a break, the Monster was calling me.  That tank needs a polishing.  Don't mind me.  I need to spend a bit of time in the garage now...








In the end, my wife said it best.  "You need the experience of an Italian Mistress in your life.  And I'm willing to accept this one as long as she's red."
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Lawn Dart
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2011, 12:16:31 AM »

PS:  Traction control:  I currently have it set on 4 (most invasive) and it hasn't gone off yet on the street.  I ran a pretty respectable Palomar run and never felt it.  I'll let you know more after my first track day.  

Veefer: The power is...well, the 1100 will pick the front up in first and second readily on the torque.  For street riding it feels superb with instantaneous power.  On a big high speed track (willow springs big track) the Monster's gonna get eaten alive by any 600 on the market.  On a tighter track (willow short track, etc.) the Monster will hold it's own just fine I'm sure.  Yeah, 85 hp at the rear (100 at the crank) isn't much...but the whole bike weights around 420-436# wet (373 dry) depending on which article you believe.  

It's freaky light and responsive and the massive torque curve is really forgiving (*as long as you're over 4k!)
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2011, 12:16:31 AM »


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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2011, 12:26:23 AM »

Keep a firm grip on your license now Y'hear?  Lol
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Lawn Dart
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 12:29:12 AM »


Keep a firm grip on your license now Y'hear?  Lol


I have no idea what you're talking about.   Lol

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j288/rnovielli/DSCF1105.jpg

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« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2011, 07:54:50 AM »

Thanks for the thorough and detailed.  These are 3 bikes that really interest me, largely because I have the same limiting "need" for a sporty naked with ABS.  I've got a Street Triple to wear out first though.  Speaking of which, I've found that the 675 engine is much more enjoyable than the 1050, but it is hard to beat a twin that likes to rev.  2-up capability is probably where the Monster takes the biggest hit for me.  

Look forward to your impressions as you get some miles under your belt on it.
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« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2011, 08:26:51 AM »

Awesome.  Glad to see you're back on the road.   Thumbsup
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 08:58:55 AM »

You crack me up, Robert  Bigok
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 10:07:38 AM »




The Duc wins because it FEELS like what MOTORCYCLING is all about.  




Exactly.
That is what made me buy my St4s after I demoed the VFR Vtec.  

Welcome.  And you may want to look into getting a larger rear sprocket.  All these Ducatis come with way too tall gearing from the factory.
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 11:09:20 AM »

 Clap  brought tears to my eyes......  I loved my Duc and lost her.....
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 11:09:20 AM »


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Lawn Dart
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 07:24:15 PM »

I've been farkling.   Bigsmile

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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2011, 07:26:04 PM »


 Clap  brought tears to my eyes......  I loved my Duc and lost her.....


egads!  How?
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2011, 07:50:47 PM »

I've been farkling.   Bigsmile

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j288/rnovielli/IMG00008-20111228-1907.jpg

Nicely installed.  Thanks for the detailed response on your bike buying process.  I'd be curious what kind of miles you get on a tank.  The 3.6 gallon tank seems so small.  Otherwise I think Ducati has a great package with the EVO and it's priced well for a bike with TCS and ABS, and that is so lightweight and sexy like a beautiful female.  I will be curious what you do for luggage as well.
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Miles Typed: 5500

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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2011, 08:18:03 PM »

Great thread, thanks for your thoughts Robert!  Congrats on your purchase!  I'm jealous.  Are you getting an aftermarket exhaust?

I've ridden all 3 bikes and largely agree with all of your notes.  The only area where my opinion would be different is the Triumph.  I think the 1050 engine has a lot of character, just not in the same way the Ducati or BMW would.  As noted, the Duc is more viceral, and the BMW has the perfect amount of vibrations (as well as that fantastic kick upon start-up).  Also, I think a better comparison might have been the Street Triple R - which is a much more fun/dynamic/interesting bike in my opinion (though I understand it doesn't hit all your requirements).  I'd be torn between the M1100evo, Hypermotard (all models), and Street Triple.  I'd like to replace my MV Agusta with one of those models, but the market just isn't interested in pretty race bikes, I guess Sad

Have fun on that thing!
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Years Contributed: '07, '09, '10
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: 2012 Ducati Monster EVO; 2011 Yamaha WR250R
GPS: Anaheim Hills, CA
Miles Typed: 4276

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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2011, 08:22:02 PM »


Nicely installed.  Thanks for the detailed response on your bike buying process.  I'd be curious what kind of miles you get on a tank.  The 3.6 gallon tank seems so small.  Otherwise I think Ducati has a great package with the EVO and it's priced well for a bike with TCS and ABS, and that is so lightweight and sexy like a beautiful female.  I will be curious what you do for luggage as well.


Range?  Well, I'm seeing around 40 mpg for the first couple tanks:  So, 140 miles per tank is my current expectation.  I've filled up three times so far at the 120 range.  Good news is that "Gas and Go" stops barely take a couple minutes...  On the other hand I'm rather used to 200+ mile tank ranges plus reserve...

Luggage?  None for normal use.  i plan to use just pockets and keep it light and simple.

For longer distance stuff I plan to use my Bags Connection "Reverse" bag as a tankbag.  In the short term, I'll just go with a myriad of other stuff.  I have a set of Wolfman Enduro Saddlebags that actually fit perfectly and can use a Tourmaster Cortech Tailbag if needed.  Plus, I have some Wolfman tank panniers that would work.  

Long term I'm thinking Bags Connection CargoBag.  What I like about the Cargo-Bag though is that it rides low and comes off as a single unit - that's just super for hotels and such.  

PS:  on the gas range, I'll drop a 1 liter MSR bottle in a bag somewhere just for safety.  Lord knows running out of gas sucks!  We won't go there again...  

I just fired up the Duc and ran up and down the street.  Damn I love the sound of this thing!   Lol  (I'm rather convinced my neighbors on the other hand...)
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"And Atgatt courted Motgatt, and took her for a wife.
And lo, he compromised with Atgmott, and verily she conceived, and did bear a son, Notgatt. And Notgatt roamed naked, 
Lawn Dart
I am BMW-K: I survived Christine's Wrath.
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Reputation 44
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Years Contributed: '07, '09, '10
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: 2012 Ducati Monster EVO; 2011 Yamaha WR250R
GPS: Anaheim Hills, CA
Miles Typed: 4276

My Photo Gallery


- C'mon Iron Horse! Go faster! Go Faster!


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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2011, 08:42:04 PM »


Great thread, thanks for your thoughts Robert!  Congrats on your purchase!  I'm jealous.  Are you getting an aftermarket exhaust?

I've ridden all 3 bikes and largely agree with all of your notes.  The only area where my opinion would be different is the Triumph.  I think the 1050 engine has a lot of character, just not in the same way the Ducati or BMW would.  As noted, the Duc is more viceral, and the BMW has the perfect amount of vibrations (as well as that fantastic kick upon start-up).  Also, I think a better comparison might have been the Street Triple R - which is a much more fun/dynamic/interesting bike in my opinion (though I understand it doesn't hit all your requirements).  I'd be torn between the M1100evo, Hypermotard (all models), and Street Triple.  I'd like to replace my MV Agusta with one of those models, but the market just isn't interested in pretty race bikes, I guess Sad

Have fun on that thing!


Fal,  the Speed Trip is a GREAT bike and a great package.  You are right about the character.  It certainly has character...  A better way to say it is that it's just not a character I'm attuned to.  It just doesn't resonate with me.  

The Hyper - oh man, you can get a 6 gal aftermarket tank for that thing!   Drool  I sooo wanted that bike in the running but...cannot be had with ABS.  That part pushed it right out of the running without ever starting.  Total bummer there.  

I sat on a Street Trip - it just felt too small.  That's actually quite the funny comment when I think about it.   Lol

PS:  come on out to SoCal for a test ride with me?

PPS:  Exhaust.  Oh man...maybe one day!  I love the idea of knocking another 10-12# off the bike but I'm really not that sure the extra noise is worth it.  But the sound...oh man, the SOUND!   Drool Drool Drool  I may not be able to resist!  
Logged

ATGATT 35:12-14
"And Atgatt courted Motgatt, and took her for a wife.
And lo, he compromised with Atgmott, and verily she conceived, and did bear a son, Notgatt. And Notgatt roamed naked, 
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