I'm having crazy thoughts...

[Johnny Monsoon]

The XX ain't for me.  I've accepted that.  I know I'll miss the absolute street presence that thing has when I'm doing days on the highway on my upcoming DS bike, but I'll cope.

However, I started thinking.  I'm wondering if knobbies will fit on a 'Lil Ninja.  Strip the body work mostly off...  Light bike...  Maybe even a GSF500...  Sure, there's the suspension thing, but I wonder how far I could push something like that offroad.  Hmmmm...

Discuss (and yes, I realize the powerband is all wonky for offroading; I'm workin' on that).

[1moreroad]

Fire roads/gravel roads will be no problem.  Don't need to do anything to the bike.  Handling will not match a dirt bikes due to body position/weight distribution, but it's not a huge deal.  Sand will be slow/will suck but be do-able.  People who think you need an Adventure bike to ride gravel roads probably drive their Hummers to the mall in case it rains.

Rocks will be a HUGE problem.  Steep hills may be a problem unless you go to some crazy gearing -- which will compromise your comfort riding the road.  You had better be prepared for more flat tires, too.

[oldmanweirdon]

i know its probably no help, but I've started having the same idea.  My idea of a good bike would be an old CB 350 or 450, or the like.

[Beatkiddo]

Fire roads/gravel roads will be no problem.  Don't need to do anything to the bike.  Handling will not match a dirt bikes due to body position/weight distribution, but it's not a huge deal.  Sand will be slow/will suck but be do-able.  People who think you need an Adventure bike to ride gravel roads probably drive their Hummers to the mall in case it rains.

Rocks will be a HUGE problem.  Steep hills may be a problem unless you go to some crazy gearing -- which will compromise your comfort riding the road.  You had better be prepared for more flat tires, too.

Exactly...think of the older scramblers that just changed the exhaust to high, and added a skid plate and were ready to take off road!!

[vitaminC]

Why?    For the price of any of those bikes, couldn't you just get small, beat up DS and go for a ride without having to wonder if it's going to fall apart over every bump?

[1moreroad]

Why?    For the price of any of those bikes, couldn't you just get small, beat up DS and go for a ride without having to wonder if it's going to fall apart over every bump?

Was thinking the same thing, but JM has dedicated dirtbikes and he has or had a KLR, so there's something else he's clearly looking for....

[Calikatoom]

Can a street bike go down a dirt road?

I actually get asked this more often than you might think at the shop I work at.

The answer is "heck ya"!

You can compare it to cars very easily.  Could you drive a car down a bumpy road?  Yes, but you would drive much slower and be extra careful so as not to damage anything.  If you valued that car, you would exercise a large measure of common sense before deciding to tackle any obstacles!

Bikes are no different.  Take a cheap, cosmetically challenged bike and head for the hills man!  Tires are a weakness though.  Pure street tires puncture very easily offroad.

Have fun

[Johnny Monsoon]

The idea behind using the 'lil Ninja is farily straightforward:

It's a much better road bike than a lot of DS machines without being very heavy.   The small size would work well; though turn-locks might be an issue.  The Scrambler was really what I was thinking of when the idea popped into my head to mod a Ninja.  I figured the bike might be able to have other suspension/forks put on it.  Of course there comes a point of diminishing returns though; the trick is not to exceed that.

The big thing that I'd like to work with is having a lightweight bike with a narrow chassis that contained a parallel twin instead of a thumper engine.  

[highside]

Exactly...think of the older scramblers that just changed the exhaust to high, and added a skid plate and were ready to take off road!!

'course they also came with wheels that were both larger and spoked. Street bikes and dirt bikes started to diverge a long time ago and it isn't quite so easy to go back and forth these days.

[marc11]

Yep, I think your problems would be with tire and wheel selection and ground clearance.  

[pyro_]

Take a look over on advrider in the beast section.  There are a few people that have been working on setting up a Ninja 500 for this.  I beleive that they got a klr front end and rear wheel to work with it.

edit here is the link http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171094

pyro_

[1moreroad]

The idea behind using the 'lil Ninja is farily straightforward:
...
The big thing that I'd like to work with is having a lightweight bike with a narrow chassis that contained a parallel twin instead of a thumper engine.  

I would think that knobbies on the road would drive me nuts.  The vibes would be as bad as a thumper.  The Ninjette engines aren't exactly smooth themselves, either.

Keep in mind a Ninja 500 weighs over 400 pounds wet.  The 250 is under 350 IIRC.  The 500 is NOT light.  It also lugs easily under 4000 rpms.  I have an easier time managing my (supposedly) high strung 600.  The 600 is certainly smoother in city traffic at 1500 or 2000 rpms than my old EX-500 ever was.

What about a used, last gen FZ1?  It's another 75 pounds or so IIRC but you'll have better low end torque and a MUCH better riding position for gravel roads.  Throw on a pair of Pirelli Scorpion Syncs and you'll be good to go!  Little plastic to pull.  Not terribly expensive -- 2 years ago you could get them around $6500 OTD.  The tipover switch might be annoying off-road, but hopefully you'll never have to worry about it.  Late 90s Speed Triple?  

What about a Harley Sportster?  Riders used to take those to the ends of the country.  Don't they have a bigger front wheel?

[Johnny Monsoon]

'course they also came with wheels that were both larger and spoked. Street bikes and dirt bikes started to diverge a long time ago and it isn't quite so easy to go back and forth these days.

Agreed; however we have something these days that they didn't have so much of in the past (for better or worse):  Mass production.  That means, generally, that more parts are interchangeable.  Really, finding bearings that'll fit in the steerer tube to adapt a set of moto forks to an EX250 probalby wouldn't be all that much work.  It look like the KLR rear tire has already been accomplished.

Knobbies on the road uncomfortable?!?  I've never really known them to be.  In fact, they make cornering a lot more entertaining!

[JamesG]

Right now I think the best candidate for a "round peg project" is a Seca II.  Aircooled (no radiators to get dinged up), lightest weight of any "old school" 600, will do much better on the highway than an EX500, and stock wheels are skinny enough to have a good selection of offroad and DS tires.

Next up from that would be a Gen 1 Bandit 600.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Right now I think the best candidate for a "round peg project" is a Seca II.  Aircooled (no radiators to get dinged up), lightest weight of any "old school" 600, will do much better on the highway than an EX500, and stock wheels are skinny enough to have a good selection of offroad and DS tires.

Next up from that would be a Gen 1 Bandit 600.

All of those (especially the Bandit) are too heavy.  The B6, for as much as I enjoy the bike, uses an I4 which has no place offroad.  That's why I was looking at the little ninja; it is super light, makes good power, and should be able to be modified (given the time, and finances, and willingness to have a weird bike for no good reason exist).

[JamesG]

If you think an EX250 or EX500 is any "better" for fooling around in the dirt you are in for a serious disapointment.  
An I4 600cc at least has the power to be able to gear it up to be useful in the dirt while still tolerable at on-road speeds.

ANY streetbike modified for use is going to be a 50:40:10 compromise in effectiveness on road on gravel and completely offroad.

[R.Markus]

I would think that knobbies on the road would drive me nuts.  The vibes would be as bad as a thumper.  The Ninjette engines aren't exactly smooth themselves, either.

I ride a thumper with knobs on the street all the time and have no problems with it.

[Johnny Monsoon]

If you think an EX250 or EX500 is any "better" for fooling around in the dirt you are in for a serious disapointment.  
An I4 600cc at least has the power to be able to gear it up to be useful in the dirt while still tolerable at on-road speeds.

ANY streetbike modified for use is going to be a 50:40:10 compromise in effectiveness on road on gravel and completely offroad.

It wouldn't resemble its original state for very long.

I took a Ninja 650R out this last weekend and flogged the everliving bejesus out of it.  That's a killer bike.  It also has just about a perfect engine for a DS bike.  I think if I could work around that platform, things would be very, very good.  In fact, probably just throwing a set of knobs on it (and working out some longer suspension) would be the end of the process.  It is a heartbeat away from being a supermoto anyway.  That wasn't what I expected before I rode one, but after... yeah, that thing is a multi-cylinder supermoto with shorter suspension.

[JamesG]

You mean something like this:

[Johnny Monsoon]

You mean something like this:

Ehhh, something.  I'm well aware of that bike, but if I had it it'd be much more dirt specific.