Visited a H-D Dealership

[FBRR]

P.S.S.
I came on the site today to see what if folks were talking about the new 1400 MotoGuzzi. ( another bike that is really outdated and isn't as fast a many and has the dreaded V-Twin engine, what the heck are those guys thinkin'??

[Sport-Touring]

[DogBoy]

Thanks for the thread. I was wondering if HD had radically changed their approach since the last seven hundred discussions on this subject.

[Hardware]

I've ben riding MOTORCYCLES since 1962. I've never felt the need to belittle what someone else rides. Of course "back then" we all rode Motorcycles, even if it was a Yamaha 80 or Honda 90. Big bikes for us were X6 hustlers, Big Bear Scramblers and 305 Hondas. Any "new guy" on any bike was welcome to ride.
I've also owned many different bikes from Honda, Yamaha, Triumph, HARLEY, and Kawasaki.( Including an H1, and C14 along with a "Samuri"350)
Having been both exposed and experienced to ride many fast and not so fast bikes, I find it funny that some feel they must put down a Harley rider.
I ride motorcycles and right now a Harley is well built and paint fininsh and yes Chrome are far superior to "other" cruisers. And anyone that wishes to belittle Harley ( I know the lifestyle crap makes them the target) But  Honda or "Star" cruisers are the same ride! So why do OU care if someof us wish to go slow in comfort and enjoy the wind!

New riders seems to feel they must "justify" what they ride by downgrading what others have. I should say I also have a Rolex and know a timex is cheaper and keaps better time! SO WHAT! I also appreciate the craftsmanship in "things." ( And yes I've also owned a 1941 ChrisCraft in the 90's that had far "better/faster/less labor intensive" boats available. I never felt the need to tell guys riding/boating" something other than what I have how foolish they were that they weren't rapping their nuts into the tank everytime they hit the brakes!( I miss carving curves, but I don;t miss the backache, and leg cramps, after riding 12 hours in a day!) But I also would NEVER ask,
What you see in YOUR bike! you obviously decided it was what YOU wanted!

New riders are NOT motorcyclist if they think what you ride on two wheels MEANS SQUAT to ANYONE else!

Ride Safe, wave or don't, but I do miss the old days when EVERYONE was happy to see another guy riding a BIKE on the road!

P.S.
I don't "wear" a bike I ride one. It's not a lifestlye, it's what I do. I've had five or six motorcycles before I ever owned a car!
I ride a Harley today!

See, you're a motorcyclist who happens to currently ride a Harley.  

Then there are the diehard Hardley faithful, who opine things like:  "If it ain't a Harley it ain't shit"(which is correct IMO  ); ask non-Hardley riders, "When are you gonna' get a real bike?"; and can only justify it all with, "If I gotta' explain it to you, you wouldn't understand".

Now please step aside while S-T.N illuminati carry on with our regularly scheduled Hardley Ableson bashing...

[Rogue]

I've ben riding MOTORCYCLES since 1962. I've never felt the need to belittle what someone else rides. Of course "back then" we all rode Motorcycles, even if it was a Yamaha 80 or Honda 90. Big bikes for us were X6 hustlers, Big Bear Scramblers and 305 Hondas. Any "new guy" on any bike was welcome to ride.
I've also owned many different bikes from Honda, Yamaha, Triumph, HARLEY, and Kawasaki.( Including an H1, and C14 along with a "Samuri"350)
Having been both exposed and experienced to ride many fast and not so fast bikes, I find it funny that some feel they must put down a Harley rider.
 

What I don't find funny is when so many H-D riders and owners put down (insert brand) riders because they're not on a H-D.  Believe me, I've had my share of that and there are way more of them.  Having said that, I'm not putting down owners, just wondering what the real attraction is for someone to plunk down that much money for a retro-machine that has retro performance.  THAT is what I don't get and will probably never will.  I don't think that kind of mentality is present in any other segment of any market.  Not in cars, not in bikes, not in home electronics, nothing, nowhere.  

[FBRR]

"What I don't find funny is when so many H-D riders and owners put down (insert brand) riders because they're not on a H-D. "
Yup! and they are DUFFESSES TOO!

[ConPilot1]

So to summarize and this thread they are still heavy, slow, chrome plated dildo yachts that nobody's quite sure why they are purchased and occasionally ridden.

[ShervinRRR]

I have some most awesome ideas for mass reduction

My ideas of the past have received reviews of the most acclaim.

[staedtler]

The language used is all relative to the target market for a product.

Let's say for example that the heart of the HD market is targeted at guys suffering from a mid-life crisis who regularly drive mini-vans and four door sedans popular a mid-sized rental cars. To this audience the performance of virtually any motorcycle is likely to be pretty exciting and makes sense to  emphasize in marketing materials.

Of course these words are lost and rightfully might be considered ridiculous by people outside of the target market.

that's right, everybody has a bullseye...

my guess is that HD marketing is not genius, they just happened to have a very unsophisticated target audience, (easy prey)...
i cannot tell you how close i came to getting an RT just because of this promo vid, not even a test ride or anything.



lately, this one is heavely flirting w/me...

[Royal Tiger]

As long as people want what they sell, they will make them.  It's a no brainer on their part.

[axelwik]

I went to a Harley dealership on Saturday to meet up with someone. Was on my Ducati. When I got back on the bike to leave I noticed that one of the dim-wits outside in their pirate costumes had put my bike in gear to see if it would fall over when I hit the start button.

[Kootenanny]

I went to a Harley dealership on Saturday to meet up with someone. Was on my Ducati. When I got back on the bike to leave I noticed that one of the dim-wits outside in their pirate costumes had put my bike in gear to see if it would fall over when I hit the start button.

Perhaps it was a good samaritan who put it in gear to keep it from falling over on its own (any bike should be left in gear when parked...).

[Kootenanny]

I've ben riding MOTORCYCLES since 1962...yadda, yadda, yadda...It's not a lifestlye, it's what I do...

You'll fit right in with mxstone:  https://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,69835.0.html

[Rattlehead]

I've ben riding MOTORCYCLES since 1962. I've never felt the need to belittle what someone else rides. Of course "back then" we all rode Motorcycles, even if it was a Yamaha 80 or Honda 90. Big bikes for us were X6 hustlers, Big Bear Scramblers and 305 Hondas. Any "new guy" on any bike was welcome to ride.
I've also owned many different bikes from Honda, Yamaha, Triumph, HARLEY, and Kawasaki.( Including an H1, and C14 along with a "Samuri"350)
Having been both exposed and experienced to ride many fast and not so fast bikes, I find it funny that some feel they must put down a Harley rider.
I ride motorcycles and right now a Harley is well built and paint fininsh and yes Chrome are far superior to "other" cruisers. And anyone that wishes to belittle Harley ( I know the lifestyle crap makes them the target) But  Honda or "Star" cruisers are the same ride! So why do OU care if someof us wish to go slow in comfort and enjoy the wind!

New riders seems to feel they must "justify" what they ride by downgrading what others have. I should say I also have a Rolex and know a timex is cheaper and keaps better time! SO WHAT! I also appreciate the craftsmanship in "things." ( And yes I've also owned a 1941 ChrisCraft in the 90's that had far "better/faster/less labor intensive" boats available. I never felt the need to tell guys riding/boating" something other than what I have how foolish they were that they weren't rapping their nuts into the tank everytime they hit the brakes!( I miss carving curves, but I don;t miss the backache, and leg cramps, after riding 12 hours in a day!) But I also would NEVER ask,
What you see in YOUR bike! you obviously decided it was what YOU wanted!

New riders are NOT motorcyclist if they think what you ride on two wheels MEANS SQUAT to ANYONE else!

Ride Safe, wave or don't, but I do miss the old days when EVERYONE was happy to see another guy riding a BIKE on the road!

P.S.
I don't "wear" a bike I ride one. It's not a lifestlye, it's what I do. I've had five or six motorcycles before I ever owned a car!
I ride a Harley today!

If you are a “motorcyclist”, as you claim to be, then the insults in this thread really don’t apply to you and there’s no reason for you to get worked up over them unless you’re a Harley zealot. If you are what you say (this is the internet, I could claim to be a professional bodybuilding millionaire with a genius IQ if I wanted   ) then surely you see the “lifestyle” marketing Harley does and surely you despise it as much as the rest of us.

I’m going to hit on a few points in your post though, I’ll try to do them in the order you wrote them just for clarity.

“been riding since 1962”. That would obviously indicate that you are an “older” rider (no disrespect meant). I think it’s quite clear, based on the millions of Harley “discussions” on the web, that there is a GREAT generational divide in how younger and older riders view bikes. As I was growing up motorcycles were just breaking the 10 second barrier in the ¼ mi and reaching performance milestones that no car could achieve. The Yamaha V-Max was the bad boy on the block and if you wanted comfort and reliability a Goldwing was the ONLY way to go (Harley was still struggling with reliability issues). The GSXR was first appearing and sportbikes as we know them today were being birthed. The performance and reliability of bikes was progressing by leaps and bounds and Harley was always being left in the proverbial dust. In my generation, Harley has never been “top of the heap” and, in fact, was struggling to survive for the most part. Harleys were always “those leaky bikes your Dad rode in his hippy years”. They never represented anything positive like performance or quality.
To me, motorcycles have always been performance machines and Harley has never been in the game (it was the late 60’s when Harley was last competitive in performance). I will still ride anything, and enjoy it, but for my hard earned money I expect a certain level of performance. No current Harley fits the bill for me.

Not sure what to make of the “new riders” comment.    It seems to be to be a way to put down anyone who hasn’t been riding 50years in a very passive/aggressive manner. There are plenty of riders who are far from new at the game that simple despise Harley. If that means their putting down Harley to “justify” what they ride in your mind then so be it.


The Rolex/Chris-Craft comparison.
Personally, I think of a Rolex as nothing more than an over-priced status symbol (much like a Harley) and I’m unimpressed by them (also much like a Harley). I don’t spend money to gain status as I feel it’s a ridiculous pursuit, so therefore I see little value in such things. Harleys, to many, have become a status symbols and the prices have followed accordingly.

To say a Harley is a precision machine though, like a Rolex, is a bit “off the mark”. Google “Harley crank run-out” sometime to see the kind of “precision” Harley builds to. They build a very mediocre machine and dress it up in the best looking wrapper in the business. It’s like a lump of coal placed in a perfectly finished, intricately carved wooden box. Their fit and finish is top notch, no denying that, but the motorcycle, as a whole, is simply average at best. I’m not saying Harleys are junk and that their no better than their AMF days ( they’re far from it in all truthfulness) but they are far cry from a precision crafted machine either.

As far as the Chris-Craft, when you buy a classic anything you expect a certain amount of work to be needed and you expect a certain performance trade-off vs. something new. Now imagine if you bought that 1941 boat brand new in 2012, complete with the performance deficit (but with better maintenance requirements), and paid premium dollar for it. I own a 69 Mustang and I love it dearly but, if I bought a 2012 Mustang and it looked and drove like that 69 I’d be sorely disappointed in it, not matter how good the fit and finish was. That’s what Harley offers, a gussied-up version of a very old machine sold at a premium price and that’s why so many just don’t “get” the Harley thing, like the OP.

By relying so heavily on “Lifestyle” marketing and focusing entirely on one market segment (classic cruisers) Harley has turned their back on a good number of riders that would love to be able to support “the home team” but have no respect for that team or its rabid fans. That, I think, is where a lot of the angst comes from, not from jealousy or the need to "justify" another brand.

[falcofred]

Where is Raj when we need an expert on H-D?

[Kootenanny]

By relying so heavily on “Lifestyle” marketing and focusing entirely on one market segment (classic cruisers) Harley has turned their back on a good number of riders that would love to be able to support “the home team” but have no respect for that team or its rabid fans. That, I think, is where a lot of the angst comes from, not from jealousy or the need to "justify" another brand.

And this is why "all 14 buyers that bought Buells are still mad at Harley." (to quote Rabon1).  Look at the current EBR machines...unaffordable, yes, but these COULD have been built by Buell as a division of H-D, and probably at a competitive cost, had H-D allowed Buell a little more time and freedom.  But, no, Mr. Wandell decided to spend AS MUCH MONEY to kill Buell as H-D had put into the company since initial purchase (including purchase costs)

[Royal Tiger]

Perhaps it was a good samaritan who put it in gear to keep it from falling over on its own (any bike should be left in gear when parked...).

This.

We had a girl on a GSX-R on a group ride park her bike in neutral and it slowly worked it's way back towards the other bikes, still on the kickstand.    We stopped it before it hit any.  It did go a good 20 feet though.

As for falling over, when I turn the key the green neutral light would be a first clue if it was in gear or not, and I always check by rolling back and forth.  I also always pull the clutch to start the bike, even with the interlock bypassed so it would start in gear if I choose to do so.

[ConPilot1]

Perhaps it was a good samaritan who put it in gear to keep it from falling over on its own (any bike should be left in gear when parked...).

NOBODY should touch anybody's motorcycle, PERIOD. FOR ANY REASON. Unless you're helping get somebody's bike upright again with them.
If you think there is a problem with a parked bike, attempt to find the owner and notify them.

[Kootenanny]

NOBODY should touch anybody's motorcycle, PERIOD. FOR ANY REASON. Unless you're helping get somebody's bike upright again with them.
If you think there is a problem with a parked bike, attempt to find the owner and notify them.

Bullpucky.  If I see someone's bike in danger of falling over, I'll fix it...for example, if the sidestand was sinking into sand, turf, or hot asphalt, I'd try to find something (a rock, whatever) and put it underneath.  If I see someone's bike in danger of rolling forward off the stand, I'd put the bike in gear.  Sure, if the rider is right there, I'd simply tell him...but if he ain't, I'm not gonna go out of my way to find him, if it's easier to just fix the problem.  I'd hope other riders might do the same for me, rather than just stand by and let my bike fall over ("Gee, man, I woulda stopped it, but I never touch anyone else's bike...).

Now, moving a bike to make room for a car in a parking stall (which has happened to mine), that's different.  Sitting on or otherwise messing with someone's ride, also not on.  But putting it in gear to keep it safe from rolling off the stand, that's just being a good neighbour


(Sorry for the rant, but...I can't believe, first, that anyone would intentionally leave their bike in neutral when parked, or second, be annoyed when someone puts it in gear for him.  He's obviously never seen a bike roll off the sidestand...)

[Cablebandit]

NOBODY should touch anybody's motorcycle, PERIOD. FOR ANY REASON. Unless you're helping get somebody's bike upright again with them.
If you think there is a problem with a parked bike, attempt to find the owner and notify them.

This.  How did they even know it was in neutral unless they were already messing with it.

[Kootenanny]

This.  How did they even know it was in neutral unless they were already messing with it.

Excellent point, and I admit that I wouldn't know if a bike was in neutral unless I actually saw it start to roll (see Royal Tiger's post above).

But, then, how would they know the bike isn't in neutral, either?--according to axelwik, his bike was put in neutral so the guys could see if it would fall over when he tried to start it.  I think that's going a bit far on his part.  More likely, he left it in gear himself (parked it correctly by accident) and didn't realize he'd done so.

I know most of us don't have any respect for Harley riders; but while I'm not enamoured of their products, I'm not going to badmouth anyone because of their choice of motorcycle (although some find it necessary to badmouth my choice...).  And I think that assuming that some guys who happen to be standing around outside a Harley shop put your bike in gear for nefarious purpose is assuming a lot, unless the rider actually saw or heard something that would raise his suspicion.