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Topic: The return of the $20 fill-up  (Read 12914 times)

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Mookie
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« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2012, 07:34:03 PM »

An english gallon is not the same as a SAE gallon   Bigsmile

People do not "commute" across countries, no matter how big they are (unless they are truckers).

Taxes can be used to pay for mass transit systems which, when enough taxes have been collected, can ween people off of the need to commute via automobiles.

What the president says or does has basically no affect on gas prices, unless he starts a war.

Sticky motorcycle tires wear out faster than less sticky tires and can negate any mileage savings.

Corvettes are both fast and fairly energy efficient.

Very very little of our oil comes from Iran.

Cars still suck compared to bikes.

Did I forget anything?
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« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2012, 09:41:21 PM »


An english gallon is not the same as a SAE gallon   Bigsmile

People do not "commute" across countries, no matter how big they are (unless they are truckers).

Taxes can be used to pay for mass transit systems which, when enough taxes have been collected, can ween people off of the need to commute via automobiles.

What the president says or does has basically no affect on gas prices, unless he starts a war.

Sticky motorcycle tires wear out faster than less sticky tires and can negate any mileage savings.

Corvettes are both fast and fairly energy efficient.

Very very little of our oil comes from Iran.

Cars still suck compared to bikes.

Did I forget anything?


Probably
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« Reply #102 on: March 02, 2012, 11:25:19 PM »


Enjoy

http://www.kiplinger.com/features/archives/gas-prices-around-the-world.html



Another issue that is often not discussed is the inconsistencies at which FX is calculated.

Converting the dollar, to, say, the GBP might result in one price, yet converting the dollar to Turkish Lira, then to Italian Lira, then to Pesos, then to the GBP might result in a vastly different value.

What it costs anywhere else in the world is kinda pointless in that so very much of the daily stuff we buy and sell might not be consistently valued across the globe. A China-made product in the US might be vastly less expensive or vastly more expensive than the very same China-made product in the UK or in Italy or in Russia.

Good luck...

To compare with European fuel prices, you need to convert US Gallons to liters (3.78l/USgal).
As for the currency, it's Euros which is at about $1.30USD right now,  there are no Liras or Francs or Pesos or Drachmes anymore.
But you are right, the comparison of the cost or price is highly different from the value in each country.
For example, the British pound is around $1.6USD. You would think that to us North Americans, buying a coffee in London would be expensive. Well, it isn't. It costs about the same given the currency exchange as it would cost here. It's all a question of how much the market is willing to pay for the coffee. That is the value of the product. Other products, like Goldwings, we would find extremely expensive over there. It costs about 32,000 Euros compared to about $32,000CAD for a similarly equipped bike.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 11:31:40 PM by PatM » Logged

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« Reply #103 on: March 03, 2012, 01:34:47 AM »

The UK has high fuel prices no doubt but their  mass transit system is pretty decent.   My wife is from Scotland and we go back nearly every year to visit family.    No matter where we have stayed in Scotland there always seemed to be a train or bus station within walking distance.    I'd love to see more mass transit in the U.S.    



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« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2012, 05:54:53 AM »

Detroit metropolitan area just hit $4 a gallon for regular.   Sad It's gonna be an expensive touring summer.
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« Reply #105 on: March 03, 2012, 09:18:42 AM »


The UK has high fuel prices no doubt but their  mass transit system is pretty decent.   My wife is from Scotland and we go back nearly every year to visit family.    No matter where we have stayed in Scotland there always seemed to be a train or bus station within walking distance.    I'd love to see more mass transit in the U.S.  


This


Taxes can be used to pay for mass transit systems which, when enough taxes have been collected, can ween people off of the need to commute via automobiles.


And this are two reasons why you cannot compare fuel prices in the U.S. to the U.K. Sure prices at the pump are more in Europe, but mass transit options are far better due partially to the higher fuel taxes. We pay less at the pump in the U.S., but are given fewer options and have to rely more on driving ourselves.
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« Reply #106 on: March 03, 2012, 10:48:53 AM »


An english gallon is not the same as a SAE gallon   Bigsmile



Correct, which is why I calculated the cost of a gallon of fuel in the uk based on a US gallon, which is 3.8 litres, to give a like for like comparison.
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« Reply #107 on: March 03, 2012, 10:52:38 AM »

And this are two reasons why you cannot compare fuel prices in the U.S. to the U.K. Sure prices at the pump are more in Europe, but mass transit options are far better due partially to the higher fuel taxes. We pay less at the pump in the U.S., but are given fewer options and have to rely more on driving ourselves.


Of course you can make a comparison between the costs in the UK and US. It's what is paid at the pump by the consumer which is a direct comparison.The issue of mass transit systems is irrelevant as they are not practical to use for many and many people are reliant on their own personal transportation.
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« Reply #108 on: March 03, 2012, 10:54:16 AM »




Ok so all in all the size of Kalifornia. But what is the typical mileage driven per year in the UK, the rest of Europe? I put 27,000 miles on my Fiesta last year. Probably not that typical but it is what it is.


14000 per year on my bikes, 13000 per year in the car (shared between wife and myself) and wife does 9000 a year on her own bike.

What is the typical mileage per year in the US?
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« Reply #109 on: March 03, 2012, 11:03:52 AM »




14000 per year on my bikes, 13000 per year in the car (shared between wife and myself) and wife does 9000 a year on her own bike.

What is the typical mileage per year in the US?


Probably somewhere in the 12,000 - 15,000 range.
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« Reply #110 on: March 03, 2012, 12:20:15 PM »


Of course you can make a comparison between the costs in the UK and US. It's what is paid at the pump by the consumer which is a direct comparison. The issue of mass transit systems is irrelevant as they are not practical to use for many and many people are reliant on their own personal transportation.


The issue of mass transit is certainly relevant as part of the reason your fuel cost so much is because of the way it is taxed. Some of those very fuel taxes are used to pay for public transportation.

Have you been to the U.S.? I spent 2 years in the U.K. and have visited many places in Europe. The practicality of mass transit in Europe is much greater by far than it is here and I think the data would prove that out.

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/natgeo_surveys_countries_trans.html

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« Reply #111 on: March 03, 2012, 12:23:09 PM »




Probably somewhere in the 12,000 - 15,000 range.



yeah, right.   major case of DWT- Dreaming While Typing.
ST-N riders are not typical riders, and i doubt that we even average that kind of mileage.
let's try some data (even if potentially somewhat inaccurate), rather than some W.A.G.

1- "According to the "Motorcycle Transportation Fact Sheet" at "ridetowork.org"...

As of 2003, there were 5,370,000 motorcycles regularly in use in the United States. (US Bureau of Transportation Statistics)
As of 2003, these 5,370,000 motorcycles traveled an average of 1,800 miles a year per motorcycle. (US Department of Transportation, Bureau of Transportation Statistics)"

2- According to the FAQ at Kelley Blue book.
"What is the average yearly mileage for a motorcycle?

Obviously mileage will vary from year to year and model to model. A simple guide could be to consider the type of bike you are looking at: If the bike is a sportbike 600 c.c. to 999 c.c., and since these bikes are traditionally weekend only bikes, you can expect to see lower miles, about 3,000 miles per year. Tourers or Sport Tourers usually see a lot of miles, but these are generally freeway miles, between 5,000 to 6,000 miles per year."

3- The average miles in the "mileage contest" of the BMWMOA (m/c owners of america) typically hits between 9 and 10,000, and that has been pretty consistent within the club for the last 30 years or so. the huigh mileage winner usually hits above 30K for women, and above 40K for men. There was a stretch a few years ago when the hi mile winners were hitting upwards of 100,000 miles/yr (and that "year" only runs from early April to mid October).

4- that KBB avg of 5-6K/yr is consistent with what i first heard for avg bike miles about 35 years ago.
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« Reply #112 on: March 03, 2012, 02:43:45 PM »




Probably somewhere in the 12,000 - 15,000 range.


Not much different to the UK then. Secondhand car values are always worked out on the basis of an average mileage of 10-12000.
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« Reply #113 on: March 03, 2012, 02:55:08 PM »




The issue of mass transit is certainly relevant as part of the reason your fuel cost so much is because of the way it is taxed. Some of those very fuel taxes are used to pay for public transportation.


Government (both central and local) spending on transportation amounted to £23 billion pounds in 2010, which is a very small proportion of the overall spend of £669 billion. It amounts to 3.4% of the budget so the tax on fuel is not being spent on the transportation system alone.

The transportation system is not all it is cracked up to be. I live in a town which is 30 miles to the north of London, but the nearest rail station is 2.5 miles away. Is that walking distance? It is but it's not exactly a short walk. There is a bus service which would take me to the rail station but it only runs twice an hour, which compared to buses running every 8-10 minutes in London is poor by comparison. Some of the villages a few miles down the road from where I live may only see two buses a day and people who live there have no choice but to own a car to get around.

And this is only 30 or so miles from our capital city. There are many rural areas within the UK which have the same issues when it comes to mass transportation. It doesn't exist.  

Quote from: Superhans
Have you been to the U.S.? I spent 2 years in the U.K. and have visited many places in Europe. The practicality of mass transit in Europe is much greater by far than it is here and I think the data would prove that out.


Yes, I have been to the US and Canada 13 times over the last 20 years, and I have found transportation systems in cities is on a par with european cities. Rail networks between cities doesn't seem to be as good but I suspect much of that is due to the geography of the US and the sheer distances involved in travelling from east to west and north to south. Air travel is more practical for those who need to go from say Chicago to Phoenix or Seattle to San Francisco, to give but two examples.

The bottom line is regardless of government policy on taxation that we are paying $8 upwards per gallon (US) of gas.

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« Reply #114 on: March 03, 2012, 03:20:32 PM »

Quote
The bottom line is regardless of government policy on taxation that we are paying $8 upwards per gallon (US) of gas.


If you live in the US right now, one thing to keep in mind is that your FED. is in a mad rush to increase revenue, and well living in a place where only a little of federal gasoline tax is being put back into infrastructure, I would be a little concerned here if I were you. Gasoline is a much easier thing to tax than lets say an increase in personal income tax rates. You can generate a whole lot of money with just a penny a litre increase in gasoline tax.

The Province next door to mine (B.C.) Just had their voters recind their new HST tax, so the Province is about a billion dollars short of revenue. One of their proposed solutions is to increase their Carbon tax (A tax which they placed on gasoline sales to help improve the environment). Now I am sure they plan to tax that extra tax money if implemented and put it right back into green projects, and not put it right into general revenues.  

I don't have any hard core statistics for you, but I will boldly claim that every country that has the highest gasoline prices (and this is always due to tax rates on that gasoline) has been or is in tough economic times where Governments needed extra income. (Sound familiar?)
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« Reply #115 on: March 03, 2012, 05:35:16 PM »





yeah, right.   major case of DWT- Dreaming While Typing.
ST-N riders are not typical riders, and i doubt that we even average that kind of mileage.
let's try some data (even if potentially somewhat inaccurate), rather than some W.A.G.

1- "According to the "Motorcycle Transportation Fact Sheet" at "ridetowork.org"...

As of 2003, there were 5,370,000 motorcycles regularly in use in the United States. (US Bureau of Transportation Statistics)
As of 2003, these 5,370,000 motorcycles traveled an average of 1,800 miles a year per motorcycle. (US Department of Transportation, Bureau of Transportation Statistics)"

2- According to the FAQ at Kelley Blue book.
"What is the average yearly mileage for a motorcycle?

Obviously mileage will vary from year to year and model to model. A simple guide could be to consider the type of bike you are looking at: If the bike is a sportbike 600 c.c. to 999 c.c., and since these bikes are traditionally weekend only bikes, you can expect to see lower miles, about 3,000 miles per year. Tourers or Sport Tourers usually see a lot of miles, but these are generally freeway miles, between 5,000 to 6,000 miles per year."

3- The average miles in the "mileage contest" of the BMWMOA (m/c owners of america) typically hits between 9 and 10,000, and that has been pretty consistent within the club for the last 30 years or so. the huigh mileage winner usually hits above 30K for women, and above 40K for men. There was a stretch a few years ago when the hi mile winners were hitting upwards of 100,000 miles/yr (and that "year" only runs from early April to mid October).

4- that KBB avg of 5-6K/yr is consistent with what i first heard for avg bike miles about 35 years ago.


He asked for average mileage per year. He didn't say "for a motorcycle".
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« Reply #116 on: March 03, 2012, 11:05:15 PM »




Government (both central and local) spending on transportation amounted to £23 billion pounds in 2010, which is a very small proportion of the overall spend of £669 billion. It amounts to 3.4% of the budget so the tax on fuel is not being spent on the transportation system alone.

The transportation system is not all it is cracked up to be. I live in a town which is 30 miles to the north of London, but the nearest rail station is 2.5 miles away. Is that walking distance? It is but it's not exactly a short walk. There is a bus service which would take me to the rail station but it only runs twice an hour, which compared to buses running every 8-10 minutes in London is poor by comparison. Some of the villages a few miles down the road from where I live may only see two buses a day and people who live there have no choice but to own a car to get around.

And this is only 30 or so miles from our capital city. There are many rural areas within the UK which have the same issues when it comes to mass transportation. It doesn't exist.  



Yes, I have been to the US and Canada 13 times over the last 20 years, and I have found transportation systems in cities is on a par with european cities. Rail networks between cities doesn't seem to be as good but I suspect much of that is due to the geography of the US and the sheer distances involved in travelling from east to west and north to south. Air travel is more practical for those who need to go from say Chicago to Phoenix or Seattle to San Francisco, to give but two examples.

The bottom line is regardless of government policy on taxation that we are paying $8 upwards per gallon (US) of gas.




Geez, you've convinced me your life sucks, your country sucks,  and everything British is hell on earth.  Sorry 'bout that.  


Guess there was a reason there was an American Revolution to get away from such a hard life.   After reading your post I feel like buying the biggest Dodge Ram pick up I can find, put on some Springsteen, and haul a big ass bass boat up to Lake Tahoe!     Bigsmile

My wife & I have had great experiences while in the UK, both in and around London and up north.   Maybe the Scots do it better?  
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« Reply #117 on: March 04, 2012, 04:45:31 AM »




Geez, you've convinced me your life sucks, your country sucks,  and everything British is hell on earth.  Sorry 'bout that.  


Guess there was a reason there was an American Revolution to get away from such a hard life.   After reading your post I feel like buying the biggest Dodge Ram pick up I can find, put on some Springsteen, and haul a big ass bass boat up to Lake Tahoe!     Bigsmile

My wife & I have had great experiences while in the UK, both in and around London and up north.   Maybe the Scots do it better?  


If you think the Scots do mass transportation better then take a look at this map of railway coverage of Scotland (and the rest of the UK)

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/maps/Network_Rail_national_map.pdf
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« Reply #118 on: March 04, 2012, 03:59:24 PM »


The transportation system is not all it is cracked up to be. I live in a town which is 30 miles to the north of London, but the nearest rail station is 2.5 miles away. Is that walking distance? It is but it's not exactly a short walk. There is a bus service which would take me to the rail station but it only runs twice an hour, which compared to buses running every 8-10 minutes in London is poor by comparison.


Submitting this to whitewhine.com and first world problems meme, STAT.
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« Reply #119 on: March 04, 2012, 06:09:05 PM »




Submitting this to whitewhine.com and first world problems meme, STAT.


What an intelligent contribution to the thread.................not.
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