Need Advice On Manager Relations In Corporate Environment

[Rogue]

I need the opinions of experienced Corporate Professionals in here, especially Human Resource/Managerial oriented individuals.

Myself and a Staff person have been working under this Mgr who is less than stellar.  This Mgr has a bad temper and has a habit of making her Staff feel stupid and worthless.  She is bipolar so you never know what you’re going to get.  She treats people under her like trash.  However, she is smart enough to be super kind and accommodating to people above her so she looks good.  My Staff person is at the verge of a nervous breakdown due to the constant psychological and verbal abuse this Mgr puts her through.  She doesn’t do it as much with me because I’m a Senior person but I’ve been on the receiving end of it plenty of times.  I won’t go into specifics.  I’m sure we’ve all had bad Mgrs.    

My Staff person loves the company, loves her job, but can no longer take the abuse of our direct Mgr.  She has told me she is ready to go to Human Resources or quit her job.  I suggested she go to the Director of our group and leave HR out of it.  I also advised her that this is a risk for her to take but I understand her motives.  This abuse has been going on for four long years and I have to admit I’ve had thoughts of ratting on our Mgr on a regular basis or just confronting her.  I have not done so because I also love my job and the company, and don’t want to risk losing it.  In addition, having seen our Mgr lose her temper, I can only imagine how she would take a direct approach.

What advise do you Corporate types who have had similar experiences have for my poor Staff person?  Should she go to HR?  Or should she go above our Mgr. to the Director and see if it can be resolved this way?  Our Director is a much better people-person who has an open door policy.  But he also loves our Mgr. so we are unsure how to proceed.  What are the risks?  

[bomber]

The risk? Being labelled a problem and being marginalized/fired/transfered to Siberia.

If others see the problem, I would suggest HR as the first stop, but only after record of specific behaviors (date, time, et al) have been kept for a while . . . . .if no one else does, it it entirely a she said/she said thing . . . the manager will likely win that one.

[rbwilliams2]

So, ask yourself - "what would I like to see happen?" and "what do I expect to happen?"

If the answer to these two questions is not the same, then proceed with caution.

If you go to Director to complain about Mgr, what do you expect is going to happen?
Mgr gets fired or transferred is the only acceptable solution. Anything other than that - Mgr is likely to hold a grudge and haunt you forever.

Unless you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mgr is as bad as you claim, the Director will just think this is an employee complaining. So, if you decide to proceed, do so only if you can document the incidents of bad behavior.

[UFO]

Document everything (ie. behavior, treatment, etc).  Go straight to HR.  Do not try to go up the chain of command to someone above her.  HR is there for reasons just like this.

[bubba zanetti]

Document everything (ie. behavior, treatment, etc).  Go straight to HR.  Do not try to go up the chain of command to someone above her.  HR is there for reasons just like this.

Agree and I would approach HR for support, coaching, ideas and perhaps even team building support. By doing this you will flag the issue without pointing fingers. Seeking support from HR is your first step.

[Papa Lazarou]

Document everything (ie. behavior, treatment, etc).  Go straight to HR.  Do not try to go up the chain of command to someone above her.  HR is there for reasons just like this.

Spot on. She is a bully. Check out this site for info: http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/  It hasn't been updated since 2006, as the author died. Also, there is a useful book called Dignity at Work-it is UK orientated, so the legal side will not be the same.

It is also worth seeing your doctor to get checked out for signs of anxiety/ depression-these can be the basis of a legal claim against your employer. And they will not want that.

[JReazor]

I'll repeat the same refrain. Document everything and go straight to HR. Larger companies will have very specific rules for dealing with this kind of thing. If you work for a smaller company things may get a little more sticky but you should at least get the complaint on record.

Do others get the same treatment? Any chance someone else has filed a similar complaint? That could go a long way in a case like this.

[SuperHans]

It is always good to try and go to the Director first if possible, although going straight to HR is acceptable. I guess it all depends an how you feel about your Director.

As has been said before, documentation is key. Witnesses are important, but I don't think that will be a big problem if the two of you are willing to give the same stories. If you have others that are willing to step up it would be even better.

With that being said, it all comes down to you're management and HR what the outcome of this situation is. I have seen I situation where I work that was handled very badly and causes problems to this day. 10 employees went to HR about another employee that they felt was unsafe and putting them in danger and also causing a hostile work environment. The employee that was doing this basically got off scott free and ended up feeling invincible after the incident. The company in actually created a bigger monster by doing nothing.

[Yankee Dog]

This is a bit callous, but the staff person is the one it really bothers. Let her to to HR and complain. If there are negative ramifications then she is the one without a job. Since it sound like she is headed that way otherwise it might not really be such a bad thing for her.

I agree with going to HR. The chain of command will be mostly interested in not causing a fuss. You are not likely to see a good solution.

[ConPilot1]

Invite her out for a drink.

When she gets near your vehicle........

1. Rope

2. Neck

3. Bumper

4. Peel out, real fast.

[UFO]

Invite her out for a drink.

When she gets near your vehicle........

1. Rope

2. Neck

3. Bumper

4. Peel out, real fast.

I didn't even have to look at the member to know who posted this.

[pcrdude]

I would caution anyone to remember that HR is there to protect the interest of the company and not the employees.  This is especially true when a subordinate makes complaints about a superior.

Go to them at your potential peril.

YMMV

[bomber]

While it's true that HR DOES act more often to support the compnay than the employee, if you can make a case that the bad manager is damaging the company, either directly or indirectly (as in causing a likely suit), protecting the company can very easily change into deep-sixing the offending manager . . . . . this is what the documentation is for -- going to HR is like a mini-lawsuit.

[greench440]

Document everything (ie. behavior, treatment, etc).  Go straight to HR.  Do not try to go up the chain of command to someone above her.  HR is there for reasons just like this.

Exactly.  HR has to follow their process which usually includes maintaining confidentiality and protecting the employee against retaliation.  HR is also there to protect the company from potential liability against lawsuits brought by employees regarding manager behavior and hostile work environment.

[phoenix]

 This abuse has been going on for four long years

Four years? really?

Not that I don't believe you. My wife gives me an earful every now and than about her pain in the ass boss. After a while I just say "well, fuckin' do something about it!"

The longer she waits, the more it becomes acceptable office behavior.

[viffergyrl]

All of this. Document everything - go back and start putting together dates, times, potential witnesses (only direct observation), all the detail you can think of. You must demonstrate a pattern of behavior. In CA you are protected from retaliation (in theory) and it is an employee friendly state. HR knows this and knows the due process. If it's a 'great' company, this type of behavior should not be tolerated. Four years? Really? Not such a great company then if employees feel they can't raise this issue...  

In my company it was the number one HR guy who was the problem.   He went off on a couple of friends of mine. I happened to know that another VP witnessed one such event. I also happened to run into said VP one day with no one around. I have some cred with this person and told him in no uncertain terms that if this guy ever went off on me there was going some repercussions to the company, 'great' or not. (I used to volunteer at the Women's Legal Clinic in LA - so I know what to do and what the key words are...).

I don't know if this conversation had any impact whatsoever, but in a couple of months things came to a head and the guy left the company.

Good luck!  

[Rogue]

Thanks all.

It seems either HR or Director can easily backfire.

My thought was, the HR route is the most effective but it burns ALL bridges as it hurts the Director as well, which is not a route either me or my Staff person want to take.  In either case, one the Mgr finds out it burns that bridge.  My hope is my Staff person goes to the Director and the Dir agrees to work with the Mgr to improve her behavior without actually letting her know the Staff person ratted on her.  Even if there was doubt in her mind, that's enough to prevent retaliation.  In addition, going to the Director might show that my Staff person wants to improve things and not fire anybody.  

It is not only my Staff and I who have noticed the Mgr's. behavior.  Many people have including other Mgrs in other locations.  So this may be a good "heads up" for the Director to do something.

Yes it has been going on for four years.  My Staff person and I have kept our mouths shut because we are do not like to be the one who squealed or be labeled a whiner/complainer.  

The advice from all is greatly appreciated though so keep it coming.  Anybody else with first hand experience in this matter?

[Rogue]

It is always good to try and go to the Director first if possible, although going straight to HR is acceptable. I guess it all depends an how you feel about your Director.

That is exactly my thoughts as well.

[bomber]

Anybody else with first hand experience in this matter?

Yessir, I do.

[gradus]

There is zero doubt in my mind that this is an HR issue.  How you get to HR is the question.... or not.  

If you're advising your staff member and stepping away, send them to HR.  If you're staying involved, approach the Director with your staff member.  Explain the situation without sugar coating and give your director the opportunity to invite the conversation with HR.  Now your director is part of a difficult solution and not just another interview candidate if an investigation occurs.  

If HR should not be involved, your Director should be the one to convince you why.