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Topic: Have you ever thought about adding a Stebel Air Horn to your bike? Today I did.  (Read 8909 times)

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ConPilot1
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2012, 04:35:27 AM »

Bahh, horns.

I wanna see more pics of this Dog. This looks like Beautiful Dog.  Inlove

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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2012, 09:54:33 AM »





Interestingly enough, the Hurt Report indicated that motorcycles with loud pipes were overrepresented in motorcycle crash statistics.



Source ? There is nothing in Hurt Report about loud pipes .

Loud pipes and horns work on the same principle - noise . Does your bike go silent when you hit the horn ?

Even cops know that , loud pipes increase your safety .

http://motorcycles.about.com/b/2008/06/16/oakland-motorcycle-cops-stir-controversy-with-loud-pipes.htm  
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2012, 10:42:25 AM »




Source ? There is nothing in Hurt Report about loud pipes .


Page 421.



Loud pipes and horns work on the same principle - noise . Does your bike go silent when you hit the horn ?

Even cops know that , loud pipes increase your safety .

http://motorcycles.about.com/b/2008/06/16/oakland-motorcycle-cops-stir-controversy-with-loud-pipes.htm  


It's a common fallacy that "loud pipes save lives."

Every motorcycle is equipped with a noise-making device: the horn. It's there for when needed, but don't rely on it. I gave an example of why earlier in this thread.

One thing that they do accomplish: "Loud Pipes Lose Rights."
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2012, 02:16:05 PM »

 link to page 421 or it does not exist , you know the rules .

Typical loud pipe crowd member is not very skilled , usually locks basic skills , aka squids , or pirates .

Combination of experienced rider and loud enough  pipes gets you a combo as safe as possible .

Seriously , my first post was sarcastic and baiting . Bigok  I`m always amazed that orange vest crowd denies any safety benefits of louder then stock exhaust against basic logic .

You are in the dense fast moving traffic in the cage , you hear the bike  , you look in your mirrors and you can`t see him anywhere   but you know he is there . If you decide to change the line you gonna be super-mega careful now , right ?    
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2012, 02:40:16 PM »


 link to page 421 or it does not exist , you know the rules .


Some people are so lazy.  Twofinger

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49856656/Hurt-Report-NHTSA-1981-study-motorcyle-accident-causes


Typical loud pipe crowd member is not very skilled , usually locks basic skills , aka squids , or pirates .

Combination of experienced rider and loud enough  pipes gets you a combo as safe as possible .

Seriously , my first post was sarcastic and baiting . Bigok  I`m always amazed that orange vest crowd denies any safety benefits of louder then stock exhaust against basic logic .

You are in the dense fast moving traffic in the cage , you hear the bike  , you look in your mirrors and you can`t see him anywhere   but you know he is there . If you decide to change the line you gonna be super-mega careful now , right ?    


"Basic logic" does not necessarily lead to factual conclusions. Perhaps the upcoming naturalistic motorcycle study, currently getting underway, will provide answers for this.

Here is another possible version of that scenario. You're in the dense fast moving traffic in the cage. You hear the bike. While swiveling your head to look for it, you drift out of your lane into the rider or some other vehicle -- this made even more likely if startled by blastingly-loud straight pipes.
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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2012, 02:45:53 PM »

I can't recall the last time I used the horn on my bikes or my cars. It's been a bunch of years. Not that I have anything against horns, I've seen them put to good use on narrow twisty mountain roads in other countries.

When I'm trying to avoid an imminent threat I find my time better served working out an escape path and the last thing I want is the object of my ire to react to my horn and become unpredictable. Tends to make anticipating their next move much more difficult.  
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« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2012, 03:04:24 PM »


I can't recall the last time I used the horn on my bikes or my cars. It's been a bunch of years. Not that I have anything against horns, I've seen them put to good use on narrow twisty mountain roads in other countries.

When I'm trying to avoid an imminent threat I find my time better served working out an escape path and the last thing I want is the object of my ire to react to my horn and become unpredictable. Tends to make anticipating their next move much more difficult.  


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« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2012, 05:47:18 PM »


I can't recall the last time I used the horn on my bikes or my cars. It's been a bunch of years. Not that I have anything against horns, I've seen them put to good use on narrow twisty mountain roads in other countries.

When I'm trying to avoid an imminent threat I find my time better served working out an escape path and the last thing I want is the object of my ire to react to my horn and become unpredictable. Tends to make anticipating their next move much more difficult.  


time? what time? the fraction of a second it takes to press the horn button? As was said earlier, you can't do 2 things at once?

A (Louder) Horn is just another tool in the tool box. As is constantly scanning, practicing evasive maneuvers, looking ahead etc etc etc.

It's not an either or situation, you're simply taking advantage of all the tools available to help you... Honestly, it seems stupid to not be able to recognize this...
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« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2012, 06:08:21 PM »




time? what time? the fraction of a second it takes to press the horn button? As was said earlier, you can't do 2 things at once?

A (Louder) Horn is just another tool in the tool box. As is constantly scanning, practicing evasive maneuvers, looking ahead etc etc etc.

It's not an either or situation, you're simply taking advantage of all the tools available to help you... Honestly, it seems stupid to not be able to recognize this...


Nope. I can only do one thing at a time so I prefer using that time doing something besides thinking about the horn. But that's just me.  Feel free to beep-beep away.  Bigok
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« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2012, 06:37:12 PM »

I find that repeatedly and frantically stabbing the starter button by mistake works nearly as well as a horn.
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« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2012, 06:48:55 PM »

 I guess if I rode on multilane highways in areas where you can't lane split a horn would be a handy tool, but here in CA it doesn't see much use. Can't remember that last time I hit the button due to an actual hazard to tell you the truth. Headscratch
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« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2012, 08:03:20 PM »




Nope. I can only do one thing at a time so I prefer using that time doing something besides thinking about the horn. But that's just me.  Feel free to beep-beep away.  Bigok


fair enough, yes, I will beep-beep away Wink but let's look at this:


I find that repeatedly and frantically stabbing the starter button by mistake works nearly as well as a horn.


Papa is a funny guy Wink but, he makes a very interesting point. Many of us have done the same thing he jokes about. That's why we have to practice, so that it will become instinctual... to use the left thumb  Bigsmile

and this:


 I guess if I rode on multilane highways in areas where you can't lane split a horn would be a handy tool, but here in CA it doesn't see much use. Can't remember that last time I hit the button due to an actual hazard to tell you the truth. Headscratch


I'm sorry to inform you... you've fallen into my MSF Instructor trap!!

One thing I always ask... "when's the last time you had to emergency brake in your car or truck?"

Many people, if not all, don't remember the exact time, but they know they've had to do it. I can recall specific instances, some many years ago. But the instances, you don't forget them.

You say you don't remember the last time you needed a horn. But you've used one before haven't you? We all have. Maybe someone starting swerving into your lane and you had to "wake them up!", etc etc etc.

I think using your horn, instinctively, just as being able to emergency brake or emergency swerve, are things we should practice quite regularly. Hopefully we don't need to use them. But then again, we may need to tomorrow. That's the definition of emergency, it's not predictable.

And practicing will make it something we don't have to think about. Practicing it enough makes it an instinct. In the case of using the horn you can then do it at the same time as emergency swerving. No thought involved, no time wasted.

Don't become complacent. Just because we didn't have to emergency brake (or swerve) today, doesn't mean we won't have to tomorrow.
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« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2012, 08:30:50 PM »




Here is another possible version of that scenario. You're in the dense fast moving traffic in the cage. You hear the bike. While swiveling your head to look for it, you drift out of your lane into the rider or some other vehicle -- this made even more likely if startled by blastingly-loud straight pipes.



Yea , but the same scenario can happen if the guy on the bike decides to use his horn/his vest is really bright and causes momentary blindness/headlight modulator/etc   . Twofinger

BTW , I don`t drift out of my lane .

Also , straight pipes are out of the question , they are obnoxious , it does not matter how many lives they potentially save .
 I`m talking about aftermarket pipe with functioning baffle . IMHO they do increase your safety .
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« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2012, 11:34:53 PM »




Yea , but the same scenario can happen if the guy on the bike decides to use his horn/his vest is really bright and causes momentary blindness/headlight modulator/etc   . Twofinger

BTW , I don`t drift out of my lane .

Also , straight pipes are out of the question , they are obnoxious , it does not matter how many lives they potentially save .
 I`m talking about aftermarket pipe with functioning baffle . IMHO they do increase your safety .


From Hurt Report:
Quote
The modified exhaust system was typical of many accident-involved
motorcycles, and also typical of many motorcycles observed during exposure data collection.
The modified exhaust is overrepresented in these data, but
not with high significance. To be sure, the number of custom exhaust systems made for motorcycles during recent years has increased.Hence, the exposur edata collected some long time after accident data are likely to show more exhaust modifications than the time of the accident occurrence.


I wouldn't let facts get in the way of your opinion though...

But Loud Pipes are Loud Pipes....nothing else. Not safer, and may be unsafer...
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« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2012, 12:09:22 AM »




From Hurt Report:

I wouldn't let facts get in the way of your opinion though...

But Loud Pipes are Loud Pipes....nothing else. Not safer, and may be unsafer...


I'm not a loud bike fan generally AND I'm a fan of the Hurt data. However... The issue with this type of data collection is that unquantifiable factors exist that can't be easily addressed.  

For example: It's possible that a higher percentage of poorly trained riders prefer loud exhausts and that is why the accident data does not indicate a safety benefit for loud exhaust. Same for looking at accident statistics by motorcycle type. By accident statistics alone it would be obvious that sportbikes are more dangerous than any other bikes on the road. However the fact is sportbikes are the safest motorcycles on the road due to superior braking and handling.  The skewed results are due to the "human" factor.
 

Figures lie and liars figure is much more harsh than I intend but until the "human" element can be successfully calculated we shouldn't take figures that can't or don't take it into account too literally.
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« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2012, 01:23:51 AM »








I'm sorry to inform you... you've fallen into my MSF Instructor trap!!

One thing I always ask... "when's the last time you had to emergency brake in your car or truck?"

Many people, if not all, don't remember the exact time, but they know they've had to do it. I can recall specific instances, some many years ago. But the instances, you don't forget them.

You say you don't remember the last time you needed a horn. But you've used one before haven't you? We all have. Maybe someone starting swerving into your lane and you had to "wake them up!", etc etc etc.

I think using your horn, instinctively, just as being able to emergency brake or emergency swerve, are things we should practice quite regularly. Hopefully we don't need to use them. But then again, we may need to tomorrow. That's the definition of emergency, it's not predictable.

And practicing will make it something we don't have to think about. Practicing it enough makes it an instinct. In the case of using the horn you can then do it at the same time as emergency swerving. No thought involved, no time wasted.

Don't become complacent. Just because we didn't have to emergency brake (or swerve) today, doesn't mean we won't have to tomorrow.



 Complacent? Never. Been on too many roads in too many different vehicles for too long to fall into that trap. The thing is that I don't allow myself to be put into situations where a horn is necessary in the first place. I practice swerving, and braking pretty much every time I ride. I prefer to use superior positioning strategy, and throttle to stay out of trouble. If you find yourself reaching for the horn button to me you've already failed at reading the situation at hand.
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ConPilot1
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« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2012, 01:58:05 AM »


Bahh, horns.

I wanna see more pics of this Dog. This looks like Beautiful Dog.  Inlove




I know somebody's gonna post more pics of Dog.

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« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2012, 02:31:04 AM »




 Complacent? Never. Been on too many roads in too many different vehicles for too long to fall into that trap. The thing is that I don't allow myself to be put into situations where a horn is necessary in the first place. I practice swerving, and braking pretty much every time I ride. I prefer to use superior positioning strategy, and throttle to stay out of trouble. If you find yourself reaching for the horn button to me you've already failed at reading the situation at hand.


Well you're obviously someone who believes they can completely control everything going on around them. good luck with that!
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« Reply #58 on: March 04, 2012, 02:35:51 AM »




Well you're obviously someone who believes they can completely control everything going on around them. good luck with that!


Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been told that.

+1 for you.  Lol
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« Reply #59 on: March 04, 2012, 08:28:03 AM »

In my 10 years of riding I don't think that I've ever used my horn other than pulling up at someone's house and blowing it to let him know I was out front.
Anytime I think that I could've actually used the horn I couldn't find the button quick enough and the situation was over with!! Lol
I can perform any evasive maneuver much quicker than finding that damn horn button.
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