Lots of Affordable Buells

[Rogue]

Just for shits and giggles I went trolling through the Bad Weather Bikers Classified section.

I could not believe how affordable used Buells are right now.  There are so many with so few miles on them…it feels almost wrong!  Many of them are 2006 and newer models, which are the most desirable due to many improvements over the early versions.  Earlier version are even more of a bargain.  I believe the ‘09’s to ‘10’s are the best, but most are ’07-’09.  In my opinion, these Buell XB’s are undervalued for several reasons:

1)  These bikes offer modern performance thanks to higher grade components that is a whole level above those so-called affordable bikes from Japan.
2)  They are VERY LOW maintenance so ownership is simple and very cheap, compared to almost ANY bike of equivalent hardware.
3)  Parts are very plentiful thanks to a long production run, still existing support from H-D and other places in the internet
4)  Owner support is very strong so the knowledge base is healthy

This is probably the “sweet spot” wherein you can still buy a used Buell that is fairly new, hasn’t been beaten or abused by multiple owners, at bargain prices.  I’ve been looking high and low for a bike that has that balance of performance, low maintenance, easy ownership, uniqueness, good looks, and price.  So far the Buell XB’s are the only ones out there.

[Rincewind]

What kind of low deals are you talking about?  The prices on Cycle Trader still seem generally high.  I have thought about a XB commuter but $6500 for late models is still a little high, especially considering the "Blowout" sales they had when Buell first stopped production.  

[Rogue]

Rincewind, go to BWB Classifieds and see for yourself.

I saw an '07 Firebolt XB12R with about 6k miles in there and the guy dropped his price to $4k!  My friend is selling his '07 Lightning Long for about the same.  There are more.

Having said that, think about the value these bikes will give you.  I just went to see the closest equivalent to a Lightning XB12S and it's the (ironically) and H-D XR1200 and they were asking $13k!  $10k for a used one.  $11k for a left over year old model.

Even if you get a Lightning XB12S for $6k the value is tremendous.  The value lies in its modern performance and hardware, low maintenance, and continued parts and service support.  How much is a Kawasaki Ninja 650?  A Yamaha FZ8?  A Monster 696?  Even if you are able to find one of those at $6k, the Lightning XB12S still trumps them all in the value to performance ratio.  Then there is that added incentive of spending most of your time just riding the thing rather than dreading the next major maintenance/valve inspection interval and spending the $$ to have someone do that for you, finding a good dealer, etc.  When you are facing the realities of a daily commute that has you putting 15k miles on a bike yearly, that is a big incentive!

[Prubert]

This one looks interesting!

2009 Uly for Sale

[scottzilla]

I think they are a bit overpriced, especially the Uly's which Buell was giving away to get rid of 'em.
I sold my XB9SX in a nick of time; announcement of Buells demise came within weeks of me getting fair market value so yay me.

I consider the XB's performance on par with the SV650 or Versays.  If that's what you consider "Performance" you have extremely low standards.  Well made though, that's for sure.
I agree parts will remain plentiful but when they are gone-they're gone forever.

[Rincewind]

Rincewind, go to BWB Classifieds and see for yourself.

I saw an '07 Firebolt XB12R with about 6k miles in there and the guy dropped his price to $4k!  My friend is selling his '07 Lightning Long for about the same.  There are more.

Link  - http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/21/1019.html?1330652662

A Firebolt 1200 for $4k I would consider buying.  

Having said that, think about the value these bikes will give you.  I just went to see the closest equivalent to a Lightning XB12S and it's the (ironically) and H-D XR1200 and they were asking $13k!  $10k for a used one.  $11k for a left over year old model.

I don't see that as being the closest equivalent to a Lighting XB12S unless you are limiting yourself to pushrod motors.  

Even if you get a Lightning XB12S for $6k the value is tremendous.  The value lies in its modern performance and hardware, low maintenance, and continued parts and service support.  How much is a Kawasaki Ninja 650?  A Yamaha FZ8?  A Monster 696?  Even if you are able to find one of those at $6k, the Lightning XB12S still trumps them all in the value to performance ratio.  Then there is that added incentive of spending most of your time just riding the thing rather than dreading the next major maintenance/valve inspection interval and spending the $$ to have someone do that for you, finding a good dealer, etc.  When you are facing the realities of a daily commute that has you putting 15k miles on a bike yearly, that is a big incentive!

My wife bought her 2009 SVF650 Gladius for $4800.  To me that's a good value versus a 2-3 year older Buell.  The Buell has the edge in suspension and brakes, but I don't think the engine is better than the SV650 liquid-cooled engine.  The SV revs higher and doesn't act handicapped on the overrun.

I get what you mean about lower maintenance costs, but a 1200 Buell would also mean higher insurance cost.  I bet the money would not be that much different if you look at overall costs versus a middleweight liquid-cooled bike.  Add to that less expensive tires and likely less frequent tire replacements, and the Buell is not necessarily the cost king.

[Rogue]

Rince I looked at the Gladius and it is a fine motorcycle in its own right.  But it is an economy bike, pure and simple.  Yes, it's fun and all that but having ridden an SV650 myself, I know that bike has a great frame and engine but it needs more brakes and needs way better suspension than it comes with.  The Gladius is no different.  For commuting though it's just fine.

Didn't you own and XB at one point?  I can't recall exactly.

This is why I'm convinced the XB's are the best value for performance in the used bike market right now.  These bikes come with fully adjustable Showa suspension, strong brakes, 450 lbs. wet, torque everywhere, modern looks.  Any XB will leave an SV/Gladius behind in the turns very easily.  Then there's the maintenance.  The SV/Gladius requires valve inspection every 12k miles no?  Shim under bucket?  That means camshaft removal.  The XB's don't need any.  There's also chain maintenance.  XB's don't need those.  

Again, one of my main points is that the XB's are pretty much a ride it more, work on it less deal.  I haven't done the exact math to see which cost les to own.

[Rogue]

The H-D XR1200 is the closest equivalent to an XB12S/Ss.  It has the same powertrain, but he Buell has more power.  Go figure that out!

The XR1200 is the only one out there that has the minimum maintenance that makes the XB's so desirable to me.

The other equivalent to the XR1200 is the BMW R1200R, the Griso 1200 8V, and then there are the Japanese inline four nakeds.  All of them except the XR1200 need those major service intervals.  I don't know if the R1200R (w/ 4-valve heads) and the Griso 8V require camshaft removal to get to the shims or they employ finger followers to get to shims.  But the Japanese I-4's will all require camshaft removal every 16k miles.  I think the Yamaha FZ1 only every 26k miles.

[Rincewind]

No I didn't own an XB, though I test rode a number of them.  What kept me off was, 1. engine performance (low rev ceiling particularly); 2. high insurance quotes which would have nullified the maintenance savings.  SV valve checks are 14,500miles.  Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your points about the low maintenance combined with the high specifications of Buells making them an excellent used bike value.  Btw - I don't think the Griso or newer R1200R require camshaft removal, though the newer R1200R requires shims.

Last month I made up a comparison spreadsheet of bikes I was interested in and I included common labor hours for valve maintenance and their listed check intervales.  The bikes with the very least labor hours per 10,000 miles were: the R1200R, Griso, Bonnie, FZ8, V7.  All of these had labor requirements of about 1.13-1.5 hours per 10,000 miles.  Like you say, the Buell/HD route nullifies that labor, but I don't see that as the end of the equation if you look at TCO.  For now I see valve maintenance as a necessary evil for the higher revving engines that I enjoy.

[Rogue]

Rince, now I remember.  Yes you didn't like the low rev factor.

It's a different kind of riding.  I do believe the Griso, Boxers, and A-C Ducs share these.  The later model XB's have a redline of 7.4k RPM.  The 9's have an 8k Redline.  I rode my VFR and XB12 back to back and believe you me, I preferred the XB12's low and midrange torque most of the time.  I will admit, when you REALLY want to go fast or make an aggressive pass, having that strong top end kick is very nice to have.  Those were the only times the XB12's disappointed me.  However, that limitation also acted as a safety valve as it kept my speeds in check.  I still got a BS ticket on my Firebolt though (70 in a 65) so it wasn't always effective!  

The fact is I miss my Firebolt.  I commute a lot and the more I commute the more I miss its overall performance.  It had the perfect balance of not being overly fast as to have me backing off all the time, yet when I called for more power it was able to deliver.  My 1125R is like the Firebolt but with massive top end power so when I call for more steam I get an afterburner full.  It's a ton of fun for sure.  But I can easily land in jail on that thing!  

[DogBoy]

The H-D XR1200 is the closest equivalent to an XB12S/Ss.  It has the same powertrain, but he Buell has more power.  Go figure that out!

The XR1200 is the only one out there that has the minimum maintenance that makes the XB's so desirable to me.

The other equivalent to the XR1200 is the BMW R1200R, the Griso 1200 8V, and then there are the Japanese inline four nakeds.  All of them except the XR1200 need those major service intervals.  I don't know if the R1200R (w/ 4-valve heads) and the Griso 8V require camshaft removal to get to the shims or they employ finger followers to get to shims.  But the Japanese I-4's will all require camshaft removal every 16k miles.  I think the Yamaha FZ1 only every 26k miles.

News Flash: Valve clearance inspection is the not the same as a valve adjustment. You don't need to remove the cams to inspect clearances; only to adjust them. Not all bikes need valve clearance adjustment at the inspection intervals. However, the inspection requires removing the tank and/or bodywork and valve cover to access the valve train for inspection.

[Rogue]

Dogboy, I do know this.

There is still a high probably you will need to change out a shim or a few.

[Rogue]

 For now I see valve maintenance as a necessary evil for the higher revving engines that I enjoy.

I hear you 100%.

For me I was okay with that too.  Still am because I do like the high rev capability and top end of a modern, liquid cooled, DOHC engine.  It's just that, having experienced what it's like NOT to have to do any of these things on a bike that gives me 80%-90% of the performance, things like no coolant to replace, no chain to lube or adjust, not ever needing to remove that airbox and valve cover, no throttle body sync, etc., it makes me wonder if it's all worth it.

[scottzilla]

Vastly different cams and heads, different fuel injection and plenum, and an increase in rev limit.

The XR1200 cams are directly from the XB line.  At least that's what I recall reading when the XR1200 came out.  Not sure about the head though.

Forgive my intrusion; Rogue has selective ignore feature engaged so I wasn't sure he would respond.
I remember when teh XR was introduced feeling rather lustful for it, then realizing the City X I had sold would kill it deader than dead.

[atadaskew]

Griso has screw adjust threads.  No shims.  No cams to remove.
Plus the jugs are out in the breeze.

[scottzilla]

Griso has screw adjust threads.  No shims.  No cams to remove.
Plus the jugs are out in the breeze.

Well, at least you're no longer constantly talking about scooters.

[DogBoy]

Dogboy, I do know this.

There is still a high probably you will need to change out a shim or a few.

Unless you can express that probability, you aren't presenting facts. Rather, you are skewing the argument in your favor using assumptions. "Shim under bucket valve adjustments on inline 4s and V4s is a time consuming pain in the butt and/or expensive to have done at a shop" is a fair statement. Insisting inspection intervals are the same as adjustment intervals is not. BTW, my YZF600 had all valves in spec at its 26,000 mile inspection.

[DogBoy]

I've done a few bikes that simply were not, are not, and never will be worth the money to do the job, IMO. And some of the bikes, I'll never buy (or re-buy) for myself because of the stupidity of the valve check/adjust interval, and labor intensity of the job.

Fair statement and a fair argument for purchasing a bike like an HD or Buell XB.

[Kootenanny]

I consider the XB's performance on par with the SV650 or Versays.  If that's what you consider "Performance" you have extremely low standards.  

I can't believe that anyone who's ridden both a Buell XB and an SV650 would think the performance was "on par."  I was strongly advised to get an SV650 rather than a Buell, on the grounds that the performance was similar but the SV would be more reliable--am I ever glad I ignored that advice and got the Buell anyway.  I've ridden SVs, both 650s and 1000s--indeed, near the end of shopping my short list included only the SV1000S and the XB9R--and the Buell is a more capable bike IMO.  The engine has far more grunt at lower revs (where I prefer to keep it) than the SV650--and although the SV1000 definitely has "more engine," I found the XB to be a better balanced bike with a more capable chassis.  (Plus the XB's engine "character" adds a lot to the riding experience as well, which is a bonus IMO.)

Now, I do like the SV650...a few years ago, a friend was shopping for a bike and I recommended he look at an SV650S that was available.  I went along when he test rode it, and we swapped for a bit (I wanted to sample the SV650S).  Afterwards he was amazed with the Buell--his comments were along the lines of he was surprised with the power, because he'd heard that Buells were so anemic.  The difference here is, of course, the Buell has power at pretty low revs, which means you're generally already in the powerband when you twist the throttle; the SV, while perhaps torquey compared to an I4, just doesn't compare.  You gotta get into the revs (and even there, it's still short on power compared to the XB).

I think there is a prevalence among American riders to buy far more bike than they need.  I have a buddy with an SV1000S, and he doesn't keep up to me on my Buell in the twisties...I've ridden with guys on GSX-R1000s and BMW K1300s who struggle to keep up, even though their bikes are ostensibly "faster."  That said, I've also ridden with guys who are MUCH faster than I am, and I'm sure some of them would leave me in the dust on an SV650 (or a Ninja 250)...the thing is, it's not the bike, it's the rider.  

[scottzilla]

I can't believe that anyone who's ridden both a Buell XB and an SV650 would think the performance was "on par."  I was strongly advised to get an SV650 rather than a Buell, on the grounds that the performance was similar but the SV would be more reliable--am I ever glad I ignored that advice and got the Buell anyway.  I've ridden SVs, both 650s and 1000s--indeed, near the end of shopping my short list included only the SV1000S and the XB9R--and the Buell is a more capable bike IMO.  The engine has far more grunt at lower revs (where I prefer to keep it) than the SV650--and although the SV1000 definitely has "more engine," I found the XB to be a better balanced bike with a more capable chassis.  (Plus the XB's engine "character" adds a lot to the riding experience as well, which is a bonus IMO.)

Now, I do like the SV650...a few years ago, a friend was shopping for a bike and I recommended he look at an SV650S that was available.  I went along when he test rode it, and we swapped for a bit (I wanted to sample the SV650S).  Afterwards he was amazed with the Buell--his comments were along the lines of he was surprised with the power, because he'd heard that Buells were so anemic.  The difference here is, of course, the Buell has power at pretty low revs, which means you're generally already in the powerband when you twist the throttle; the SV, while perhaps torquey compared to an I4, just doesn't compare.  You gotta get into the revs (and even there, it's still short on power compared to the XB).

I think there is a prevalence among American riders to buy far more bike than they need.  I have a buddy with an SV1000S, and he doesn't keep up to me on my Buell in the twisties...I've ridden with guys on GSX-R1000s and BMW K1300s who struggle to keep up, even though their bikes are ostensibly "faster."  That said, I've also ridden with guys who are MUCH faster than I am, and I'm sure some of them would leave me in the dust on an SV650 (or a Ninja 250)...the thing is, it's not the bike, it's the rider.  

The point is neither the Buell XB series or mid sized Japanese bikes stand a chance against a fast bike.
You're not that good, believe me.  Keeping up with squids on a Buell is easy.  A capable rider on an R6 will beat you, wether you care to admit it or not.

[Kootenanny]

The point is neither the Buell XB series or mid sized Japanese bikes stand a chance against a fast bike.
You're not that good, believe me.  Keeping up with squids on a Buell is easy.  A capable rider on an R6 will beat you, wether you care to admit it or not.

Never said I was "that good."  In fact, I stated earlier that I've ridden with guys who'd probably leave me behind on a 250.  And of course, a "capable rider on an R6" would beat me (wereI racing), being as I am just a local hack.  The thing is, I'm aware of my own abilities and limitations, and for me, the 'Bolt is plenty "fast" enough.  Perhaps I have "extremely low standards," but I'm happy with the Buell, and it allows me to keep up just fine with most of the guys I ride with.  Sure, there are those I can't hang with, but I wouldn't be able to hang with them no matter what I was riding.  And that's the thing--lots of guys figure they'll be faster on a "faster" bike, but--other than in the straights--that's not always the case.

It's the rider, not the bike, that's "fast."

That said, I still believe the 'Bolt is a more capable bike than the SV650.

[Rogue]

Griso has screw adjust threads.  No shims.  No cams to remove.
Plus the jugs are out in the breeze.

Even the 8V?

That's very good to hear.  

[Rogue]

That said, I still believe the 'Bolt is a more capable bike than the SV650.

I'm laughing at Scott's comments....from SV and now to R6.  C'mon.

That's like saying the Monster 1100 EVO is inferior to an R6 in performance.  DUH!  Earth to Scott!  

The XB uses exactly the same principal to the aircooled Monsters....to put a torquey, yet relatively simple engine into a lightweight, high quality chassis.  The result is fun, fun, and fun!  

The SV650 is trying to do the same thing but Suzuki built it to a price so they had to put lower grade suspension on it.  That hurts its performance but Suzuki knew this.  The SV was designed to appeal to new riders and those on a tight budget yet want the bike to to be fun and affordable and be able to grow with new rider skills.  That it did very well.  But an SV just won't hold a candle to an XB's chassis.  An XB12R cost $10k back in the day, while an SV around $6k...something had to give.  

[Rogue]

VFR800 V-Tec is another one. Been there, done that, no thanks.

Yup.

That's why I paid to have someone else do this.  Just changinge the rear spark plugs on it was a major pain due to tight confines.

[scottzilla]

 These bikes offer modern performance thanks to higher grade components that is a whole level above those so-called affordable bikes from Japan.


That's your statement Rogue.  So, what Japanese bike are we comparing performance too, huh?  I said SV and Versays because Buells mighty air cooled 1200 motor is about as fast as a Japanese 600-650CC twin.  I'm wrong?
If you would like to explain your comment i'm all ears.  I owned a Buell and the fact is, the "Performance" is lacking.  It's a slow bike.  Handles great, built really nice out of top notch components but S-L-O-W.
Then again, I think your entire thread is out of whack.  Dogboy corrected you about the never-needs-adjustment valve train and frankly, used models are overpriced especially compared to Used Japanese bikes.  Just look at the massive depreciation Japanese bikes exhibit in the marketplace.
I see little value to used Buells and when compared to Japanese bikes, I see even less.  

[Kootenanny]

If you would like to explain your comment i'm all ears.  I owned a Buell and the fact is, the "Performance" is lacking.  It's a slow bike.  Handles great, built really nice out of top notch components but S-L-O-W.

Remember, it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow

(Even for me, although I'm "not that good.")

[scottzilla]

Remember, it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow

(Even for me, although I'm "not that good.")

I'm the guy that owns a KLR and previously owned a Buell.  I did not buy either because they are or are not fast.   My comments are a direct response to Rogues comment regarding performance, that's all.  

[Kootenanny]

I'm the guy that owns a KLR and previously owned a Buell.  I did not buy either because they are or are not fast.   My comments are a direct response to Rogues comment regarding performance, that's all.  

Well, I was responding to your comment about how a Buell Firebolt has performance that's "on par" with an SV650.  They are quite different; not only does the 'Bolt feature nearly 20 more horses, it feels even more powerful due to the low-end torque, and there is simply no comparison in the chassis and handling departments.

I didn't buy the Buell because it's "fast," but because I really enjoy riding it.  However, I've never felt it to be "S_L_O_W."  Neither have the guys I ride with... (Indeed, I've had a few comments along the lines of, "Wow--and I thought Buells were supposed to be slow!")

[Rogue]

I believe Scott had a Buell XB9S City.

I myself have ridden the Buell XB9R Firebolt and I would hardly call that bike slow.  I rode that bike back to back with my Hayabusa and unless I was passing multiple cars at high elevation, the XB9R did not feel slow to me.  

In any case, everybody is entitled to their opinions.  When I owned my XB12R Firebolt I didn't ride it like I was at the track, redlining and bumping off the rev limiter.  I rode at the Pace level and it was glorious.  Slow?  Far from it, even after owning the Busa for many years I never yearned to have that power of that bike.  To me that is a very clear case that the XB12R was not slow.  I could cruise at near 100 all day, pass with authority and safety, carry luggage on it and still ride it quick, etc.  

Anyway, it's sad this thread has degenerated into a Buell vs the world thanks to a few detractors.  The fact still remains:  great buys are plentiful on Buell XB's.  Those who want their multi-valve 14,000 RPM screamers (along with their associated maintenance) look elsewhere.  

[Tpoppa]

The point is neither the Buell XB series or mid sized Japanese bikes stand a chance against a fast bike.
You're not that good, believe me.  Keeping up with squids on a Buell is easy.  A capable rider on an R6 will beat you, wether you care to admit it or not.

If you mean on a track I would agree.  On a twisty backroad, however, where cornering ability means more than top speed my old XB could easily hang with or gap seasoned track riders on R1s, GSXRs, etc.

BTW, I am currently upgrading a Gladius with GSXR suspension.   It has more 'sport' than you would think.

[Kootenanny]

Anyway, it's sad this thread has degenerated into a Buell vs the world thanks to a few detractors.  The fact still remains:  great buys are plentiful on Buell XB's.  Those who want their multi-valve 14,000 RPM screamers (along with their associated maintenance) look elsewhere.  

My apologies for contributing to the degeneration.  I will admit that I get a bit annoyed when people diss Buells for being "slow."  But what really got me going here was the taunt about how, if you don't agree that the 'Bolt is slow, you must have "extremely low standards"--and that if you CAN hang with guys on "fast" bikes, well they must just be squids with limited riding skills.

[Rogue]

Well I've ridden with a guy on a Harley Street Rod,  in the twisties, and that SOB could ride and easily keep up with the Ricky Racers.  Another time I watched a really good Ducati rider, same twisties (Palomar Mountain in San Diego) and this guy on a 1980's Vintage VFR750 kept up with him.  

So yeah, it's not the bike.  

[Rogue]

My apologies for contributing to the degeneration.  I will admit that I get a bit annoyed when people diss Buells for being "slow."  But what really got me going here was the taunt about how, if you don't agree that the 'Bolt is slow, you must have "extremely low standards"--and that if you CAN hang with guys on "fast" bikes, well they must just be squids with limited riding skills.

Koot, I think Scott's statement about the 'Bolt being slow is based on his experience riding his CityX which has the same motor.  The XB9 is about equal to an SV650 in terms of overall acceleration.  In fact I think the SV650 might have a slight edge in the 1/4 mile time.  This statement was of course silly because you can't say the SV650 is "slow".  There are people who also say the VFR800 is "slow".  This mentality is basically, if it's not at least as fast as a 600SS then it's "slow".

[Kootenanny]

Koot, I think Scott's statement about the 'Bolt being slow is based on his experience riding his CityX which has the same motor.  The XB9 is about equal to an SV650 in terms of overall acceleration.  In fact I think the SV650 might have a slight edge in the 1/4 mile time.  This statement was of course silly because you can't say the SV650 is "slow".  There are people who also say the VFR800 is "slow".  This mentality is basically, if it's not at least as fast as a 600SS then it's "slow".

The one time I rode an SV650S, it certainly didn't have the "grunt" my XB9R had...then again, I admit, I did not rev it to redline, either (plus, the stock chassis/suspension didn't really inspire that much confidence in me to "push it," so...).  That said, I read somewhere that Steve Crevier (Canadian racer) once set the fastest lap time at a small track near Vancouver, BC...on his wife's SV650S, which he borrowed because it happened to be there...so, hell, a "competent" rider can humble guys on track-prepped supersports and litrebikes with an SV650S, if he knows what he's doing.  (BTW, Steve raced a Firebolt for a time...and also an 1125R)

[Brad1445]

What great bikes the last 1200xb's were . Buell would still be selling at through Harley dealers if they had not rushed the 2008 1125 3 foot wide electrical nightmare to market.

I would not pay $1,000 for any Buell now. I will never forgive Erik for bragging about how perfect the 1125 was a dream come true. His ego was so wrapped up in celebrating the 25th anniversary with a new model he did not realize he crapped on the brand name and by not fixing it or pulling it from market sent a message to all that the customer did not matter.

What a sad ending to a great bike we all wanted and waited fit a water cooled version of the worlds best handling bike and what we got was joke like a slap in the face. I have a Buell banner hanging in my garage who ever sends me a pre paid return tube can have it for free.

If the Buell team did not smoke weed on their lunch brakes that i'll blame arley for not firing Erik when he got so far from reality and the market. We are now arguing Buell vs a sv650? That's why thebpriceskeep falling just when things were going great. You send out the same turd the model years in a row and it don't sale without a $5,000 rebate you can't blame the dogs for not liking the food after the first year. They should have done customer groups and listened before the press got ahold of it. Idiots.

[Tpoppa]

What great bikes the last 1200xb's were . Buell would still be selling at through Harley dealers if they had not rushed the 2008 1125 3 foot wide electrical nightmare to market.

I would not pay $1,000 for any Buell now. I will never forgive Erik for bragging about how perfect the 1125 was a dream come true. His ego was so wrapped up in celebrating the 25th anniversary with a new model he did not realize he crapped on the brand name and by not fixing it or pulling it from market sent a message to all that the customer did not matter.

What a sad ending to a great bike we all wanted and waited fit a water cooled version of the worlds best handling bike and what we got was joke like a slap in the face. I have a Buell banner hanging in my garage who ever sends me a pre paid return tube can have it for free.

If the Buell team did not smoke weed on their lunch brakes that i'll blame arley for not firing Erik when he got so far from reality and the market. We are now arguing Buell vs a sv650? That's why thebpriceskeep falling just when things were going great. You send out the same turd the model years in a row and it don't sale without a $5,000 rebate you can't blame the dogs for not liking the food after the first year. They should have done customer groups and listened before the press got ahold of it. Idiots.

Didn't your Dr. say to keep taking your meds?

[Croak]

Brad, do you ever post anything else?  Seriously, variations on your 1125 screed is all I've seen from you in the last three or four years.  

Let it go, man, let it go.  

[Rogue]

Brad is like a woman scorned.  He will never forget....the pods  

OTOH, I'm sure he can find a very early example of the XB9R Firebolt or XB9S Lightning for $1,000.  

What Brad does NOT know is that Buell did fix all the issues with the 1125R and did so within a year of introduction.  They did so via a few recalls and TSB's as well as warranty.  On top of that, the one most difficult fault that surfaced with the '09 1125R (that H-D did not want to address except through warranty) was fixed by Erik Buell Racing with new parts.  So even after Erik broke his affiliation with H-D, his team still went back to fix that last issue.  So there is still continued support through the H-D dealers and EBR.  Of course Brad knows nothing about that because he's never owned an 1125R nor does he bother doing any research on it.  Even if he did, he will totally ignore facts and make up fiction based on his personal vendetta.

[Tpoppa]

Brad is like a woman scorned.  He will never forget....the pods  

Hmmm.   That reminds me of something...what was that again...

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,50164.0.html

[Tpoppa]

What Brad does NOT know is that Buell did fix all the issues with the 1125R and did so within a year of introduction.  They did so via a few recalls and TSB's as well as warranty.  On top of that, the one most difficult fault that surfaced with the '09 1125R (that H-D did not want to address except through warranty) was fixed by Erik Buell Racing with new parts.  So even after Erik broke his affiliation with H-D, his team still went back to fix that last issue.  So there is still continued support through the H-D dealers and EBR.  Of course Brad knows nothing about that because he's never owned an 1125R nor does he bother doing any research on it.  Even if he did, he will totally ignore facts and make up fiction based on his personal vendetta.

He shoots, he scores!

[X1Glider]

I've had a love/hate relationship with Buell for 18 years now (had 6 different ones).  Still wish they were around because I'd have loved to have owned a Ulysses.

On the SV650 comparison...  I raced a Buell that met Pro-Thunder requirements 2 years in heavyweight sportsman class in the CMRA against Monsters and SV650s.  While the Buell outcornered the SV by carrying more speed through the turn, the SV left me behind on every significant straight.  Yeah, the SV had crap suspension but that is easily remedied with some take-off forks and brakes from a Gixxer 750.  The Monsters were the Buell's most equal rival in this race class.  (TBH, I retained the stock belt drive which may have had to do with the SV out dragging me).

As for Buells being a great deal right now.  Possibly, if you like the fuel in frame design.  It works but I don't know if it's more desirable than a tube frame.  That's a personal preference.  I know I prefer the tube frames.

Regardless of selling price now, any used Buell I would go for would have to be pristine and perfect in the bodywork and other Buell spefic parts.  The drivetrain isn't even an issue.  The aftermarket for the sporty based engines is huge.  The only drivetrain specic parts to be concerned about getting a hold of would be the ECM and throttle body parts.  I think on the fuel-in-frame bikes, you can buy rotors and pads from EBR.  

What Brad said about EB knowingly releasing the 1125 to the public with tons of problems just so he could celebrate his 25th Anniversary on time is also something that I hold a grudge against him for.  So I agree with him.  I can't tell you what a PITA it was in time and inconvenience to get that bike to where it should have been when I first bought it.  No customer should have ever had to go through that much effort when the factory could have avoided the problems in the first place by postponing the release.  Any fan of Buell bike knows that Erik's ego is more important though.  The Anniverasry release had to happen on time.  It took me a year to get it worked out and reminded me of my first RSS1200 ordeal and even the ordeal with the S2 and X1.  But when they worked, they were mighty fun.

[stromgal]

I love my S1. I hate my S1. I love my S1. I hate my S1. I love my S1..................................... ........

 All depends upon whether it's running like it ought, and how much time I've spent on the 'seat of discipline'.  
 When it's good, it is very very good; and I'm hopeful that this riding season will be a 'good' one!

[sprk_sprd]

This thread is a bit convoluted.  One guy talking about XB12s, another guy jumps in and compares them to SV650s (nevermind that's almost HALF the displacement ), another guy throws in an R6 for good measure, then XB9s are compared...and of course the "I'll never buy a Buell" guy comes around again.  

As a current owner of BOTH a Buell XB12s and an SV650, I will say this:  They feel similar in terms of rideability (if that's a real word).  The V-twin characteristic (linear power delivery) of both bikes is the same, except that the XB12 pulls much more strongly than does the SV.  It's the easiest way to viscerally explain the old adage "there is no replacement for displacement".  While both motors accelerate in a nicely predictable manner (sans the top-end, double-digit RPM rush of modern I4's), the additional 558 cc's (1203cc for the Buell, 645cc for the SV) can't be overlooked.  That's not to say the Buell is a better bike than the SV.  It simply means that after riding the Buell, jumping on the SV (which I still own/ride) feels a bit like riding my old EX500.  Predictable, mild-mannered, lacking personality.

As far as maintenance, I'd say that's one of the biggest reasons I ended up adding the XB12s to my stable rather than the Ducati Monster which I originally was looking to buy.  

[JTM]

I've had a love/hate relationship with Buell for 18 years now (had 6 different ones).  Still wish they were around because I'd have loved to have owned a Ulysses.

I'll sell you my XBXT
I have a love hate relationship with it. I love it when it moving, I hate it when I have to try to hold it up at a light or when I need to back it out of or into a parking spot.

[atadaskew]

Even the 8V?

That's very good to hear.  

Yes.
And guzzitech.com has a one page step by step w/ photos post to show how it's done.  Could do it in a lunch hour.
Posted on: March 07, 2012, 11:02:27 AM

Well, at least you're no longer constantly talking about scooters.

Now that you mention it, my Vespa PX has no valves to adjust...

Wadda ride!

[Tpoppa]

What Brad said about EB knowingly releasing the 1125 to the public with tons of problems just so he could celebrate his 25th Anniversary on time is also something that I hold a grudge against him for.  So I agree with him.  I can't tell you what a PITA it was in time and inconvenience to get that bike to where it should have been when I first bought it.  No customer should have ever had to go through that much effort when the factory could have avoided the problems in the first place by postponing the release.  Any fan of Buell bike knows that Erik's ego is more important though.  The Anniverasry release had to happen on time.  It took me a year to get it worked out and reminded me of my first RSS1200 ordeal and even the ordeal with the S2 and X1.  But when they worked, they were mighty fun.

There some merit in your point, I just think it's aiming at the wrong target.

By all acccounts of industry insiders and journalists, HD was pushing for the anniversary date not Buell.  And HD introduced some 'suspect' desgn criteria that altered the final appearance, which is Brad's 'White Whale' (go ahead on post the pod photo for the millionth time).

[X1Glider]

I'll sell you my XBXT
I have a love hate relationship with it. I love it when it moving, I hate it when I have to try to hold it up at a light or when I need to back it out of or into a parking spot.

Didn't know you hung out here Justin.  May see you at bike night next week.  It would be nice to have more than one bike there (mine) for a change.  Sad considering I put on 100 miles on the way there.  Gotta bust everyone's balls, especially the ones that live within a mile.

[scottzilla]

I've had a love/hate relationship with Buell for 18 years now (had 6 different ones).  Still wish they were around because I'd have loved to have owned a Ulysses.

On the SV650 comparison...  I raced a Buell that met Pro-Thunder requirements 2 years in heavyweight sportsman class in the CMRA against Monsters and SV650s.  While the Buell outcornered the SV by carrying more speed through the turn, the SV left me behind on every significant straight.  Yeah, the SV had crap suspension but that is easily remedied with some take-off forks and brakes from a Gixxer 750.  The Monsters were the Buell's most equal rival in this race class.  (TBH, I retained the stock belt drive which may have had to do with the SV out dragging me).

As for Buells being a great deal right now.  Possibly, if you like the fuel in frame design.  It works but I don't know if it's more desirable than a tube frame.  That's a personal preference.  I know I prefer the tube frames.

Regardless of selling price now, any used Buell I would go for would have to be pristine and perfect in the bodywork and other Buell spefic parts.  The drivetrain isn't even an issue.  The aftermarket for the sporty based engines is huge.  The only drivetrain specic parts to be concerned about getting a hold of would be the ECM and throttle body parts.  I think on the fuel-in-frame bikes, you can buy rotors and pads from EBR.  

What Brad said about EB knowingly releasing the 1125 to the public with tons of problems just so he could celebrate his 25th Anniversary on time is also something that I hold a grudge against him for.  So I agree with him.  I can't tell you what a PITA it was in time and inconvenience to get that bike to where it should have been when I first bought it.  No customer should have ever had to go through that much effort when the factory could have avoided the problems in the first place by postponing the release.  Any fan of Buell bike knows that Erik's ego is more important though.  The Anniverasry release had to happen on time.  It took me a year to get it worked out and reminded me of my first RSS1200 ordeal and even the ordeal with the S2 and X1.  But when they worked, they were mighty fun.

Hmmmm, so my comparison to the performance level of thenSV650 was spot on, huh?  

[scottzilla]

This thread is a bit convoluted.  One guy talking about XB12s, another guy jumps in and compares them to SV650s (nevermind that's almost HALF the displacement ), another guy throws in an R6 for good measure, then XB9s are compared...and of course the "I'll never buy a Buell" guy comes around again.  

As a current owner of BOTH a Buell XB12s and an SV650, I will say this:  They feel similar in terms of rideability (if that's a real word).  The V-twin characteristic (linear power delivery) of both bikes is the same, except that the XB12 pulls much more strongly than does the SV.  It's the easiest way to viscerally explain the old adage "there is no replacement for displacement".  While both motors accelerate in a nicely predictable manner (sans the top-end, double-digit RPM rush of modern I4's), the additional 558 cc's (1203cc for the Buell, 645cc for the SV) can't be overlooked.  That's not to say the Buell is a better bike than the SV.  It simply means that after riding the Buell, jumping on the SV (which I still own/ride) feels a bit like riding my old EX500.  Predictable, mild-mannered, lacking personality.

As far as maintenance, I'd say that's one of the biggest reasons I ended up adding the XB12s to my stable rather than the Ducati Monster which I originally was looking to buy.  

Tell Rogue he owes me an apology.  

[Mr.Black]

Tell Rogue he owes me an apology.  

Pussy.

[DogBoy]

Tell Rogue he owes me an apology.  

 

[Rogue]

Scott, the CityX was one of the best models Buell had.  It was perfect for its role--an urban hooligan bike.  I'm surprised you didn't like yours but to each his own.

[tankhead]

It also does well for a X-country trip!!!!



Somewhere near Page AZ........

[JTM]

I wish...
1) that you were serious, and
2) that I had the $$$

I'd be on a plane/train/bus right now. I love the Ulie XT.  

I can grant the first part, I am serious.

It is frightening for me everytime it rains, because I can barely touch the ground. (don't even get me started on my fuel stop yesterday in the rain, smooth concrete, spilt fuel and rain water pooling together  )
But I still love it: it is so comfortable for long trips, I can fit everything I need in the factory cases, better milage than any of the 600-650s,...

X1 I'll see you next week, and I'll be on a bike

[Tpoppa]

It also does well for a X-country trip!!!!



Somewhere near Page AZ........

Did you make the brackets for the HB sidecases?  I wanted sidecases when I had my XB9S.

BTW, know anyone that wants to by a brand new HB Junior Flash 30 (Left side only).

[KodiakRS]

I think listening to the on-going wheelnerds saga about Buell issues has pretty much removed any chance of me ever owning one.  

[tankhead]

Hey where did my pic go.?  

No H and B had a kit for the 9sx and the 12s.  The shorter frame.  

[X1Glider]

I think listening to the on-going wheelnerds saga about Buell issues has pretty much removed any chance of me ever owning one.  

TBH, once I got through the mess and got all the Buells sorted through either warranty/recall or my own doing, the bikes were rock solid reliable.

The X1, for instance took 2 years and 10,000 miles to get to that point.  There was a niggling problem that reared it's head a dozen times.  I eventually got a personal visit from a warranty representative and we worked in the local dealer's shop in a corner for a full weekend tearing the engine down and measured everthing by the book.  The bore for a main bearing on the primary side was too small of a diameter which caused the bearing to overheat and melt the seal.  I got a whole bunch of new engine parts out of the deal and still got to keep all the extra machine work that went into it.  We put it back together and never had another problem for the next 40k miles when I sold it off.

All the other Buells I had were ultra reliable once I took care of the small details that made the difference.  It was just fluid changes and clutch adjustments after that.  All you have to do is find one that someone else kept up with.

[scottzilla]

I think listening to the on-going wheelnerds saga about Buell issues has pretty much removed any chance of me ever owning one.  

XB's are pretty awesome.  I miss mine.
People talk about bullshit like "Character" but Buell is a different riding experience; you have to ride them differently than Italian/Japanese bikes.  Not better or worse-just different.

[scottzilla]

Scott, the CityX was one of the best models Buell had.  It was perfect for its role--an urban hooligan bike.  I'm surprised you didn't like yours but to each his own.

Never, EVER said I didn't like it.
I didn't sell my Falco, Buell or Speed Triple because I didn't like them.

[scottzilla]

And Scott's for-sale ad was epic; the stuff of legends.  

Wait till I sell the KLR.

[DogBoy]

Never, EVER said I didn't like it.
I didn't sell my Falco, Buell or Speed Triple because I didn't like them.

I remember Scott's "I love my Buell" thread about how well thought out wheel removal/replacement is on the XB and many other posts praising the bike.

[Kootenanny]

XB's are pretty awesome.  I miss mine.
People talk about bullshit like "Character" but Buell is a different riding experience; you have to ride them differently than Italian/Japanese bikes.  Not better or worse-just different.

I agree with this, although I would say the Buell has "character"--which is exactly why the riding experience is different (but yeah, they require a different style of riding, which takes a bit of getting used to especially if you're used to an I4 like I was).

[DogBoy]

Scott's for sale ad. Awesome.  

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,40678.msg928240.html#msg928240

Note this post: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,40678.msg945193.html#msg945193

[scottzilla]

Note this post: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,40678.msg945193.html#msg945193

An, I did to back to two after all.  

[scottzilla]

I agree with this, although I would say the Buell has "character"--which is exactly why the riding experience is different (but yeah, they require a different style of riding, which takes a bit of getting used to especially if you're used to an I4 like I was).

I could have worded that better.  I'm saying the XB's have character.  Other bikes do not come close in the character department.  

[Rogue]

I agree with this, although I would say the Buell has "character"--which is exactly why the riding experience is different (but yeah, they require a different style of riding, which takes a bit of getting used to especially if you're used to an I4 like I was).

I really can't pinpoint or describe that thing about "soul" or "character" on a motorcycle (or car).  All I know is, I had the XB12R Firebolt and the VFR800 at the same time.  For almost 99% of the riding, I always went for the Firebolt keys even when both were available.  I love my VFR but it has always been "the back up" bike for me.  

This is still true even with my 1125R.  Oftentimes I plan to go sport riding in the mountains and promise myself I would take the VFR this time or that time, at the last minute I change my mind and end up taking either the Firebolt or now the 1125R.  They are just fun to ride my heart always begs to ride them.  

[Rogue]

I think listening to the on-going wheelnerds saga about Buell issues has pretty much removed any chance of me ever owning one.  

My '06 XB12R Firebolt was very reliable.  Never needed a single trip to the dealer for warranty work.  My other good riding buddy has an '07 Lightning and this bike has never had anything go wrong either.  He's never taken it to the dealer for anything and he still owns it.      

My 1125R (which I've only owned for a year), has also been very reliable.  My friend was the previous owner of this bike and I know he beat on it too when it was new!  He took care of the warranty/recall issues at dealer expense during the bike's first year (this is how I know Buell took care of all issues with the 2008 1125R's).  The bike never died or stranded him.  Him and I have taken this bike on sport tours without a single glitch.  But what do I know.....  

The XB's are so simple that if something did go wrong they are very easy to repair.  Not all Buells are this reliable, and early ones have had their issues.  At least parts are plentiful and dealer support still exists.  

[Rogue]

Since we're reminiscing, I miss mine.  

[tankhead]

I have owned the 2006 City-x and the 2009 Uly.  I had close to 28000 miles on the City-x for 2.5 years of ownership when I sold it.  I had always secretly lusted for the Uly.  The City-x never ever let me down.  The uly left me stranded a few times because of a bad fuel pump which was replaced the day my warranty was up.  No problems since. Though I will say I do miss that City-x.  I should just change the handlebars to the buell city-x bars and change the primary to the nine primary and basically be back in business.  We will see.

[Kootenanny]

I have owned the 2006 City-x and the 2009 Uly.  I had close to 28000 miles on the City-x for 2.5 years of ownership when I sold it.  I had always secretly lusted for the Uly.  The City-x never ever let me down.  The uly left me stranded a few times because of a bad fuel pump which was replaced the day my warranty was up.  No problems since. Though I will say I do miss that City-x.  I should just change the handlebars to the buell city-x bars and change the primary to the nine primary and basically be back in business.  We will see.

I like the XB9, and when the Uly first came out, I was wondering if the rear subframe, seat, etc. from a Uly could be grafted onto a CityX...

BTW, I've owned my first-year (2003) XB9R since new, and so far have had only one minor issue--which didn't affect rideability and was repaired under warranty.  I have never been stranded, and would never expect to be.  It's about as reliable as this image would lead you to expect:

[Bueller]

Because they are no longer in production Buells are now classified as bikes that can be imported and registered without a manufacturer's compliance sticker.  They are eligible for compliance testing by engineering companies.

They are being imported in quantity and snapped up.  One company that specialises in importing them is doing the import and compliance an wholesaling to dealers at AU$10,000 (US$10,700) with the compliance done.

Firebolts are fetching the best prices - $16,000 - $17,000 at a dealer.  12 months ago you were looking at $7,000 private sale as a good price.

I just helped an injured friend sell his 2006 XB12R for $13,000. (He broke his back in a motorcross accident a few years ago and it had come to the point where he would not be able to ride again.)  The bike was immaculate with only 2,690 km on the clock.

My 2007 XB12R is insured for $18,000 - agreed value.  They would have given me up to $23,000 (with a higher premium) because of the accessories on it.

[stromgal]

Wow.    If I ever give up on Torquemada I'll have to advertise in Oz.  

[sprk_sprd]

Scott's for sale ad. Awesome.  

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,40678.msg928240.html#msg928240

Lol - that's almost sticky-worthy!  

[Rincewind]

This story immediately made me think of this thread.  

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/stop-me-before-i-buy-a-used-buell-xb/

Stop me … Before I Buy a Used Buell XB

[Kootenanny]

This story immediately made me think of this thread.  

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/03/stop-me-before-i-buy-a-used-buell-xb/

Stop me … Before I Buy a Used Buell XB

Perfect!  One reviewer loves the brakes, another doesn't...ditto for the engine, power, handling, etc.  But overall, they all thought a Buell was good enough they'd want to own one (except, of course, the guy who was "too tall"...gee, that's too bad...he should try shopping for bikes at 5'4"...).

I will comment, though, on this line: "...sometimes you just need that top-end hit, maybe to break the law with a little more style, or when you want to relax a bit at a trackday..."  Yup, if that's what motorcycling is all about--breaking the law and trackdays--perhaps the Buell ain't your bike.  If, however, you don't have a track anywhere within a day's drive, and you actually kinda like having a driver's license, well then...hmmm...

Overall, though, the guys all seemed to "get it," that the bike is actually very good at what it's intended for--riding backroads and having fun doing so.  No, it's not for everyone--if you're one of those guys who needs the top-end rush of a 13K redline, or wants to pass huge lines of cars "up on one" at 135 mph then body-steer the bike back into the lane before the front wheel comes down, well then this may not be your bike.  Me, I couldn't ride like that no matter how powerful the bike is (remember, I'm "not that good"), but I love the feeling I get when I ride my Buell, and that's what does it for me.  Maybe I'm beginning to understand the allure of a cruiser...naaah...

[JTM]

I actually rode to work today, instead of taking the bus, and I was once again reminded why I loved this bike so much when I first got it. The third guy really nailed it with what make a Buell XB the bike that it is and why I love mine.

[Rogue]

I recall back in ’06 when I told an ex-coworker and fellow sportbike enthusiast that I planned on buying a Buell XB12R.  As soon as I told him, he went on and on about how unreliable they are and how he knew of this one guy who went for a ride with a bunch of Buell riders and these Buell riders all brought along tools so they could wrench on their bikes on the road.  He told me his friend told him that every time they stopped the Buell rider would check fasteners and tighten them.  I asked my coworker what kind and year Buells they were, he said they were called “tubers” (tube-framed Buells).  Anyway, he went on and on about impending doom if I bought a Buell and so he wished me luck.  

To this day this guy can’t believe how simple and reliable my Buell XB12R was.  He always asks me how the bike is running, as if he’s waiting for me to say it broke down or this fell off or I hate it, so as to vindicate his advice to me.  Of course, this is the same guy who predicted doom and gloom for aftermarket muffler manufacturers when the DOT required all mufflers to meet decibel limits.  We all know the aftermarket muffler builders have adopted and are doing just fine.

[Rincewind]

I will comment, though, on this line: "...sometimes you just need that top-end hit, maybe to break the law with a little more style, or when you want to relax a bit at a trackday..."  Yup, if that's what motorcycling is all about--breaking the law and trackdays--perhaps the Buell ain't your bike.  If, however, you don't have a track anywhere within a day's drive, and you actually kinda like having a driver's license, well then...hmmm...

Overall, though, the guys all seemed to "get it," that the bike is actually very good at what it's intended for--riding backroads and having fun doing so.  No, it's not for everyone--if you're one of those guys who needs the top-end rush of a 13K redline, or wants to pass huge lines of cars "up on one" at 135 mph then body-steer the bike back into the lane before the front wheel comes down, well then this may not be your bike.  Me, I couldn't ride like that no matter how powerful the bike is (remember, I'm "not that good"), but I love the feeling I get when I ride my Buell, and that's what does it for me.  Maybe I'm beginning to understand the allure of a cruiser...naaah...

I'm a backroad bomber as well -- that's my favorite type of riding.  I don't ride track, nor do I do 135mph wheelies either.  Now that my wife has a vtwin that gets good mileage (mid 40's), I am sort of jonesing for a v-twin.  And my Street TripleR is coming up on an expensive 24k service - by commuting it really ups the miles.  I should probably stop typing before I get any ideas, especially about the Lightning Long, XB12STT, or the Uly.  

I wonder if the author of the article sold his STR for a Buell or not.  

[Rogue]

In my opinion, being a person who loves sportbikes, there is no better alternative as a do it all bike for commuting, sport riding, touring, and low maintenance than a Buell XB.  A maxi-scooter comes close to the low maintenance commuter part but sorely lacks on everything else.  The low maintenance is a huge factor when you commute.  On top of that is the inexpensive buy in on used XB's with low miles, it's an excellent choice.  

Rince, I know someone who is selling his '06 Lightning XB12Ss (Long) with 19k miles on it for $4k.  He is in SoCal.  He has this bike detailed twice a year and we performed the maintenance and tire changes on it.  I know it's a solid bike and never had any issues with it.  I thought about buying it myself but I would have to sell one of my bikes and that is NOT an option.  Just so you know, the XB12Ss is VERY hard to come by nowadays.  This example is red with red wheels.  It comes with the Pit Bull rear stand, Factory Service Manual, and an extra tall windscreen (in addition to stock height number plate).  The original owner is a mature guy.  Never wheelies, no stoppies, no abuse of any kind.  I can vouch for this guy being anal retentive like me!  

[DogBoy]

I'm a backroad bomber as well -- that's my favorite type of riding.  I don't ride track, nor do I do 135mph wheelies either.  Now that my wife has a vtwin that gets good mileage (mid 40's), I am sort of jonesing for a v-twin.  And my Street TripleR is coming up on an expensive 24k service - by commuting it really ups the miles.  I should probably stop typing before I get any ideas, especially about the Lightning Long, XB12STT, or the Uly.  

I wonder if the author of the article sold his STR for a Buell or not.  

Email him and ask. He runs CityBike a tabloid motorcycle magazine for Northern California.
http://www.citybike.com/index-2.html

[Rincewind]

In my opinion, being a person who loves sportbikes, there is no better alternative as a do it all bike for commuting, sport riding, touring, and low maintenance than a Buell XB.  A maxi-scooter comes close to the low maintenance commuter part but sorely lacks on everything else.  The low maintenance is a huge factor when you commute.  On top of that is the inexpensive buy in on used XB's with low miles, it's an excellent choice.  

Rince, I know someone who is selling his '06 Lightning XB12Ss (Long) with 19k miles on it for $4k.  He is in SoCal.  He has this bike detailed twice a year and we performed the maintenance and tire changes on it.  I know it's a solid bike and never had any issues with it.  I thought about buying it myself but I would have to sell one of my bikes and that is NOT an option.  Just so you know, the XB12Ss is VERY hard to come by nowadays.  This example is red with red wheels.  It comes with the Pit Bull rear stand, Factory Service Manual, and an extra tall windscreen (in addition to stock height number plate).  The original owner is a mature guy.  Never wheelies, no stoppies, no abuse of any kind.  I can vouch for this guy being anal retentive like me!  

Thanks for the notice on your friend's bike but I'm not ready to buy nor am I certain that I would mesh with a Buell.  I tested a Firebolt 12 (my favorite), CityX, and about three Uly's, so I know about the ride experiences generally.  I want the low-maintenance engine, the belt-drive, and the high-spec suspension.  I don't want the cheap looking instruments, cheap looking plastic finishes, or the small sized fuel tanks.

What sort of miles did you get on your XB12R before the fuel light came on?

This was my favorite one: XB12R in black with orange screen and wheels.  

[Rogue]

That color scheme was available in 2005 & '06 I believe.  The '06's got improved transmissions, lighter clutch action, and improved belt that had a service life of 100k miles (given you don't get rocks and other sharp objects caught in it), and slightly bigger fuel tank.

The XB12R's frame was always the shorter one so it got a smaller tank than the longer frame of the Lightning Long and Ully.  I would get 120 miles to reserve at a sport pace.  140 at a steady 80-85.  The L Long would get 160-180 before reserve.  

The only real difference in ride experience is the engine.  It's very similar to a Guzzi, or BMW twin, or the Ducati aircooled twins with only minor variations.  In other words it's nothing like an inline or liquid cooled, multi-valve engine, and you can't ride it like one.  Well, that and the Buell's quick handling.  I remember making the tightest U-turns on my Firebolt thanks to its short wheelbase.  They kind of combine the agility of a 600 with the motor of a Guzzi.  Very similar to an aircooled Monster really.

[Tpoppa]

I preferred the XB9 motor to the XB12.  The 12 had a little more power, but the 9 was a little revvier.

I had an 03 XB9S (first year for the S), I put 35k on it.  Gas, oil, and tires was all it needed.

[Kootenanny]

I'm a backroad bomber as well -- that's my favorite type of riding.  I don't ride track, nor do I do 135mph wheelies either.  Now that my wife has a vtwin that gets good mileage (mid 40's), I am sort of jonesing for a v-twin.  And my Street TripleR is coming up on an expensive 24k service - by commuting it really ups the miles.  I should probably stop typing before I get any ideas, especially about the Lightning Long, XB12STT, or the Uly.  

I wonder if the author of the article sold his STR for a Buell or not.  

BTW, I really like the Street Triple R--as I've said in a number of posts, after riding it back-to-back with the Speed Triple, I preferred the 675 Street.  And I admit, after a morning of riding Triumph triples, when I got back on my 'Bolt, it felt kinda like getting into an old Ford pickup.  But, on the ride home (5 hours of twisties) the next day, I honestly didn't feel that I'd have been any happier on any of the Triumphs or Ducatis I'd ridden at the demo.  Maybe it's because I'm used to the Buell, or maybe it's just that I have extremely low standards...

[Rogue]

Koot, you will never let Scott off the hook.  

The feel and characteristic of the motorcycle is just unique to itself.  If you're used to what you have, when you hop on something different it's a neat feeling.  But after a while, get back on your old ride and you may realize the other one was not really "better".  It was just different.

When I would get on my VFR after riding the Firebolt for a week, the VFR felt so incredibly smooth and refined.  I liked it.  But after riding the VFR for a week then I get back on the Firebolt, the 'Bolt shakes and has more low frequency vibes and has a clunkier transmission but I still liked it.  In fact, I liked it even more.  I think it was the torque and the immediate reaction to throttle input, as well as the direct feel of its chassis that I liked the most.  The 1125R is even more different than either bike so none is better than any of those, just different.  It's nice to switch back and forth.  During the time I had all three, to be perfectly honest, every time I got on the Firebolt after a long time of not riding it, I realized why I loved it so much.  The 1125R is actually more direct and feels more like a race bike than the Firebolt.  I like them all very much.  I wish I kept the Firebolt.  

[Kootenanny]

Koot, you will never let Scott off the hook.  

Learned that from my wife

The feel and characteristic of the motorcycle is just unique to itself.  If you're used to what you have, when you hop on something different it's a neat feeling.  But after a while, get back on your old ride and you may realize the other one was not really "better".  It was just different.

This is exactly it.  I love doing demo rides, but...it is seldom that I get that "I gotta get me one of these!" feeling.  I felt it when I first demo'd a Firebolt--and it persisted through several demos of other (ostensibly "better") bikes, so...

(BTW, so far I've never ridden a Guzzi ).  

[Rogue]

Koot, have you rebuilt your suspension?  Just wondering.

Last year a great deal on an 1125R fell on my lap and that was the only real reason I sold my Firebolt.  I was looking around for a replacement just because I wanted something different.  I remember questioning my decision every time I rode the Firebolt during the period when it was for sale.  I knew I would regret it and that has now come around.  At the time, I also didn't have the garage space for three bikes.  But now I do and really kicking myself.

I never replaced my fork fluid on the Firebolt.  I felt it was working so well at 30k miles, why bother?  I did replace the front brake rotor and pads.  I wanted to replace the headlights the way Bueller had his done with Hella's.  I also wanted to Ceramic coat the muffler, add some CF bits here and there.  Oh well.  

[Kootenanny]

So far, other than setup, all I've done is rebuild the front forks (new bushings, seals, and of course fluid).  New brake pads, of course (Lindal Gold, I think).  I'm thinking about installing Race Tech "Gold Valves" at some point, and perhaps replacing the stock rear shock with a Penske shock...but so far, I've been happy with the handling.

I'm still waiting for a 750-ish version of EBR's 1190...

[Rogue]

I need to win the Lotto to justify a $40k bike.  $25k is easier to swallow but still....I would rather get a used XB12R.  My buddy just spent $30k on a new bike and I can't imagine paying that much for one.  

[Bueller]

What sort of miles did you get on your XB12R before the fuel light came on?

With a mapped Micron and higher gearing - custom primary - I'd get 285 highway km on 11.7 litres at the light and 311 km at 13.9 litres (14.5 litre tank).  So that is about 180 miles to the light in US speak.  About 210 km (130 miles) to the light in traffic.

With the race tune and exhaust I have now it is 195 - 245 km (120 - 150 miles) on the highway (depending on altitude and speed) and 150km (90 miles) to the light around town.  But way fun while it uses juice.  If I want range I take the 1125R.

[stromgal]

Had a great day with Torquemada. Reminded me of why I so enjoy this bike. It's not a 'do it all' motorcycle, but it does its particular thing very well.  

[Kootenanny]

stromgal, that's a great looking bike--I'd love to own a tuber if I had room in the garage!

[DogBoy]

Envy. I has it.

Had a great day with Torquemada. Reminded me of why I so enjoy this bike. It's not a 'do it all' motorcycle, but it does its particular thing very well.  

[Rincewind]

Question to the Buellistas, Buellers, Buellites Buellsters, or whatever you are called.  At what year did the Buells lose their engine braking?  

From one article:

While the upside is that the engine does
make nice smooth throttle transitions, the
strong elastic deceleration that would be
expected with hefty full-circle iron flywheels
is artificially extended well past the
point of desirability. In fact, the rider must
learn to cover the brakes closely in tight
going as the engine’s compression braking
is almost completely eliminated.
Recent experience with traditional
big V-twin engine braking
makes this sensation doubly disappointing,
so that our testers’
reactions ranged from quick
adaptation to inflamed disgust.

This was from a 2006 review (link), and it was something that I noticed especially during my Ulysses test rides.  However, I don't recall this issue from when I tested a Firebolt, which was around 2004 or 2005.  Maybe I just overlooked it then, I'm not sure.  Was there a specific year that this change occurred?

Thanks

[Kootenanny]

AFAIK, the change would have been in the 2003 model year, when EFI was introduced.  Buell's fuel mapping is set to eliminate drastic engine braking when you chop the throttle; this is a bike with a big-bore V-twin, very short wheelbase, and no slipper clutch.  The mapping may have been changed again in later models, but I find the engine braking nicely modulated on my 03 Firebolt--I can chop the throttle without chirping the rear tire (but throttle blips are required when shifting down in a corner!).  As I've said elsewhere, though, the Firebolt does prefer a smooth, flowing riding style--it's not a "point and shoot" bike--and I can tell you that you do NOT have to "cover the brakes closely in tight going."

What do these same testers have to say about more "modern" sportbikes with OEM sllipper clutches?  Traction control?

[Bueller]

The Firebolt engine braking is about perfect for me.  Around the same as my Laverda triples and no less than the I4s I've ridden.  

The 1125R is pretty similar - a touch more perhaps - but the EBR tune for an 1125R with stock muffler seems to reduce the engine braking significantly.  

My Torquehammer tune gives a bit more engine braking and I had to get used to it.  It will lockup on a rough change down to first in the wet.

With ECMSpy you can set Fuel cuttoff on Decel to get carby like  heavy V-twin engine braking.

With heavy engine braking I end up compensating with more throttle through a corner anyway.  It is no good if the engine braking slows me too much.  I don't use brakes much anyway - only when I am pushing hard on really tight roads.  For all the rest the engine braking is sufficient - I'd say perfect.

There isn't much difference between the year modes Kootenanny.  On all of them engine braking is sufficuent but not excessive.

[Kootenanny]

There isn't much difference between the year modes Kootenanny.  On all of them engine braking is sufficuent but not excessive.

So I'd suspect, but I just didn't know.

I'd still like to hear the reviewers' take on bikes with slipper clutches.  Sometimes, I really think these guys are just looking for anything to criticize (on ANY bike review, not just Buells).

[Rogue]

My 2006 Firebolt had engine braking.  Nothing like my VFR800 though but plenty enough so that when I rolled off the throttle the bike did slow down.  The VFR's reaction to closing the throttle in the low gears was like someone dropped a boat anchor!  To be honest, it took me a couple of rides to get used to not having as much engine braking on the Firebolt.  The result however was that I learned to control my speed in corners better.  Most importantly was, the Firebolt just flicks into turns with almost unlimited ground clearance so if I was going a bit too fast into a turn, just lean more!  

The 1125R has a slipper clutch and it has even less engine braking than the XB12R Firebolt.  At first I needed to adjust but, like the Firebolt before it, it only took me about two rides to acclimate.  I actually prefer the limited engine braking because you can downshift and not upset your line due to excessive engine braking.  I believe this is the whole point of limiting engine braking with a slipper clutch.  

If you ask me, having limited engine braking is a good thing.  Both the Firebolt and 1125R, even with their reduced engine braking, still slow down sufficiently so as to allow you to easily control your speed without constantly riding the brakes like a car would, even going downhill.

[Rogue]

With heavy engine braking I end up compensating with more throttle through a corner anyway.  It is no good if the engine braking slows me too much.  I don't use brakes much anyway - only when I am pushing hard on really tight roads.  For all the rest the engine braking is sufficient - I'd say perfect.

There isn't much difference between the year modes Kootenanny.  On all of them engine braking is sufficuent but not excessive.

This one.  

[scottzilla]

My Buell had lots of engine braking; the most i've ever experienced on a motorcycle.

[Rincewind]

My Buell had lots of engine braking; the most i've ever experienced on a motorcycle.

I didn't notice it when I tested the XB9CX.  But when I tested the later Ulys, I'd let off the throttle and the engine would hang around at higher RPM for a second, then drop lackadaisically to a lower RPM above idle and hang there, all the meanwhile seeming disconnect from the braking process.  I felt it odd at the time that it did not provide progressive engine braking as I've come to expect it.

[Rogue]

Rince, it sounds like what you experienced was "hanging revs".  

It's not lack of engine braking but the ECM telling the engine to hang on to the revs for a second before dropping.  This is annoying.  The only time my Firebolt did this was when the Throttle Position was not reset properly by the dealer.  

What year were the Uly's you tested?  In 2008, all XB's had automatically resetting TPS so it should not have this issue.  If it does, it may be emissions related?  I'm only speculating.  

[Rincewind]

Sorry I don't recall which year bikes.  I tested one soon after they came out, then another two yellow ones later (one of which had been to Alaska), and later a blue one.  I recall the issue most with the two yellow ones.  Thanks for the info, but I don't expect I'll be going Buell anyway.

[Bueller]

Hang on decel is a classic symptom of leaking intake manifold seals.  The seals aren't great and it is a fairly common problem that dealers don't often diagnose.

You can mask it by lowering the idle.  If you set the idle at or just over 1000 rpm (factory spec) and the revs hang it is leaking seals.  With the warm idle set to 1000 the idle may gradually creep up when the bike gets hot - like city summer riding.

[Bueller]

A friend thought that he'd talked his way into a 2010 XB12R for $11,500.  Went to pay and he had been gazumped at $13,500.
Another friend just bought a 2009 XB12R from US eBay.  By the time he gets it on-road here it will be $10,000 and he figures that is a bargain.
There is a 2009 XB12Ss - 0km never registered - at dealer for sale as  new bike for $17,000.

These are a lot higher than last year's prices.

[Rogue]

At the current AUS $ exchange rate that is astronomical!

My friend just sold his 2006 Lightning SS with 19k miles on it for a mere $4k.  Perfect condition and meticulously maintained (by me and him).  No issues.

My other friend is looking to purchase an 1125CR with 12k miles for $6k and I'm telling him that is a bit too much.  Maybe $5k since it's right under the Major Service interval.

[Kootenanny]

I'm thinking that in Australia, Buells probably don't suffer the "OMG it's a Harley!" stigma.  Here in North America, H-D is so strongly reviled by so much of the motorcycle community they get a bad rap IMO, with many riders--most of whom have likely never ridden one--assuming they're just some kind of weird-looking Harley (I've had more than one comment to that effect).

Also, there is a cult of horsepower here, and many riders will use horsepower numbers as their sole criteria when assessing a bike.

[Bueller]

The Harley thing does work here.  Big well organised distribution system, lots of dealers, and now that the second hand prices have improved you are seeing Buells fairly prominently displayed in dealerships.

[Kootenanny]

Hell, Buells weren't "prominently displayed" in a lot of Harley dealerships here even when they were most popular.  

I think the whole Harley distributorship thing was both a blessing and a curse.  There's this divisiion in North America between "Harley riders" and "motorcycle riders," and it seems never the twain shall meet...the problem is, Buells were aimed at "motorcycle riders" but sold at dealerships that dealt with "Harley riders"--most of the latter group had zero interest, and many of the former group refused to be seen riding anything even remotely associated with Harley, or even enter a Harley boutique.  

When I first got my Firebolt, I was trying to describe the bike to a friend who'd never heard of Buell.  I told him a bit of the company's history, and mentioned that they were owned by H-D.  Some months later, when he saw the bike for the first time, he was surprised--he'd been expecting some big-ass cruiser, because no matter what I'd said, the only thing that stuck was the name H-D.

[Rogue]

The curse of Buell in bed with H-D is the whole mentality of H-D owners towards sport bikes...more like their hatred of them and anything that was not "made in the USA" or looked like it was a modern machine.  This mentality probably do not exist in other countries of the world.  

[JTM]

The curse of Buell in bed with H-D is the whole mentality of H-D owners towards sport bikes...more like their hatred of them and anything that was not "made in the USA" or looked like it was a modern machine.  This mentality probably do not exist in other countries of the world.  

While I did have to deal with a crappy sales manager that said I would be back for a real bike in a few years; I find the Buell/HD problem to be the people that Buells are targeted towards are Anti-HD.

[Kootenanny]

While I did have to deal with a crappy sales manager that said I would be back for a real bike in a few years; I find the Buell/HD problem to be the people that Buells are targeted towards are Anti-HD.

Well, a lot of us current Buell owners are certainly anti-HD, now.

BTW, your sales manager was probably just quoting the company line.  I believe that the way many dealerships were enticed to take on Buells in the first place was with the idea that they'd act as a sort of "entry level" Harley for younger riders.  Of course, as you mention, the main market for Buell was with people who simply weren't interested in Harleys, and this meant that many of them never even bothered trying one due to that bias--and most of us who did brave the Harley boutiques and bought Buells still have no interest in a Harley (personally, I'm much more interested in a Guzzi, Ducati, or maybe a Triumph, if/when I get another street bike).

[Rogue]

I blame the Baby Boomer H-D die hards out there.  

[stromgal]

While out riding today, I stopped for an ice-laden glass o' water at a country H-D bar. The only person who asked about the Buell was a Beemer rider.  

[Kootenanny]

While out riding today, I stopped for an ice-laden glass o' water at a country H-D bar. The only person who asked about the Buell was a Beemer rider.  

That's 'cause the Harley guys were embarrassed

[JTM]

Well, a lot of us current Buell owners are certainly anti-HD, now.

BTW, your sales manager was probably just quoting the company line.  I believe that the way many dealerships were enticed to take on Buells in the first place was with the idea that they'd act as a sort of "entry level" Harley for younger riders.  Of course, as you mention, the main market for Buell was with people who simply weren't interested in Harleys, and this meant that many of them never even bothered trying one due to that bias--and most of us who did brave the Harley boutiques and bought Buells still have no interest in a Harley (personally, I'm much more interested in a Guzzi, Ducati, or maybe a Triumph, if/when I get another street bike).

If they would knock a 100lbs off the Scrambler I'd be first in line for a Triumph (or use the Daytona motor).  If Harley could get 80-90hp out of an 883R and get it down to 500lbs or less that would be the only way for me to walk into their store again.

[Kootenanny]

If they would knock a 100lbs off the Scrambler I'd be first in line for a Triumph (or use the Daytona motor).  If Harley could get 80-90hp out of an 883R and get it down to 500lbs or less that would be the only way for me to walk into their store again.

The whole idea of the Scrambler is to evoke the 60s...the Daytona engine wouldn't do that (wouldn't suit the bike very well in other ways, either).

As for a lightweight Sportster with 90 hp, well...ever look at a Buell Lightning?  Less than 450 lb (listed below 400), with a rated 92 bhp, and it handles better than any Harley...

[Rogue]

  If Harley could get 80-90hp out of an 883R and get it down to 500lbs or less that would be the only way for me to walk into their store again.

H-D had a bike that did just that--the Buell Lightning XBP9s.

903cc--450 lbs. wet.

[Brad1445]

I had 5 XB Buells never had service problems dealer was awesome.  You could tell on his face when he returned from the 1125r intro as he was not full of excitement and could only describe the bike as kinda fat in front.  I had said I would buy no matter what until the photos were released.  Don't blame Harley Eric "anonymous" on Bad Web barged and barged how this was his team bike come true 25 years of work.  You don't have to be a rocket engineer to know this thing was slapped together and not ready for prime time.  It was Erik's ego to have his 25th that killed buell.  Harley's only mistake was not watching over his shoulder. If they did not car they never would have invest million over years to grow the brand..  Buell killed Buell. Not Harley. Harley is doing fine thank you. Erik is an narcissistic idiot.

[tankhead]

Wait for it..................

[sprk_sprd]

I got excited when I saw there was new activity in this Buell thread.  Then I realized what it was....    

[Joey Stalin]

Bumping this thread in hopes that anyone with alerts on will read my other thread in the Buell forum. Buddy is selling his XB12R with 38,000 miles, it needs a few parts but he will let me have it for $1,000. What do you all think?

[Rogue]

I sold my '06 last year with 30k miles on it for $3k.  I gave it away really but it went to a good home and a fellow Bueller.

For $1k, I'd jump all over it.  Bikes are easy to work on but do yourself a favor and get a Service Manual.  Don't expect your local H-D dealer to help you much.  American Sportbike will be your best friend for parts and advice.

[Bueller]

Bumping this thread in hopes that anyone with alerts on will read my other thread in the Buell forum. Buddy is selling his XB12R with 38,000 miles, it needs a few parts but he will let me have it for $1,000. What do you all think?

I'd go for 06-07 year model or 2010.  06 - 07 were the peak of the early generation and with ECMSpy you own your bike.

2010 has the independent front and rear cylinder fuel scaling and these will be the ones that retain most value.  One of the members of a forum down here has converted his 09 to independent mapping (seems you can do it on all 08+ if you have the latest 2010 flash).  He also added a baro sensor (same physical ECM as the 1125R and it seems it supports the baro if connected).  Gunter also told him the pins to connect wide band sensors to (seems to be an undocumented feature of the ECM).

I'd still go 06-07 - you won't feel like you have to do so many mods.

[FirstVtwin]

I'd go for 06-07 year model or 2010.  06 - 07 were the peak of the early generation and with ECMSpy you own your bike.

2010 has the independent front and rear cylinder fuel scaling and these will be the ones that retain most value.  One of the members of a forum down here has converted his 09 to independent mapping (seems you can do it on all 08+ if you have the latest 2010 flash).  He also added a baro sensor (same physical ECM as the 1125R and it seems it supports the baro if connected).  Gunter also told him the pins to connect wide band sensors to (seems to be an undocumented feature of the ECM).

I'd still go 06-07 - you won't feel like you have to do so many mods.

While the 06-07 choices do allow you more flexability from the ECM standpoint, there are other issues to consider.  I would only get an 08+ for these reasons!
Larger crank pins and bearings - allow more robust design, and higher redline
larger capacity oil pump
can run throttle calibration on your own (no computer needed)
has spark plug anti-fouling protocall than can also be run (although I have never needed it)
better ECM with more processing power.
If you are only going to do simple intake/exhaust mods...go with the 08+ bikes and just buy the Buell race ECM.  I have only new airfilter, and exaust and race ECM...the thing runs night and day different than before...its just a dream.  

[Rogue]

Anything from '08 had the more restrictive EPA emissions tuning so it almost needs an EBR ECM to make them run optimal.  Many bikes sold (of all makes) that complied with this new EPA emissions had fueling issues, not sure why.  

My '06 XB12R had perfect fueling right from the factory.  My '08 1125R fueling sucks even after the latest ECM flash.  The EBR ECM put my 1125R to where it needed to be--perfect fueling.  I hate those emissions mandated fuel-choking parameters!

[sprk_sprd]

My 05 is stock with no problems whatsoever...and I intend to keep it that way.  

[Kootenanny]

My 05 is stock with no problems whatsoever...and I intend to keep it that way.  

Ditto my 03...

[sprk_sprd]

On a Buell forum that I regularly read, there are tons of threads about people installing new ECMs, different pipes, different airbox mods.  Too many of them are horror stories.  The bike no longer idles smoothly...the bike has flat spots afterwards...the bike doesn't start at all...etc.

Simply put, this is not a bike I want to ruin.  I'd love to unleash a little (just a little) bit of that v-twin rumble.  But I'm not going to risk spoiling it.  I installed an aftermarket slip-on for my SV.  That seems to be a lot more foolproof and resilient to changes.  

[Bueller]

While the 06-07 choices do allow you more flexability from the ECM standpoint, there are other issues to consider.  I would only get an 08+ for these reasons!
Larger crank pins and bearings - allow more robust design, and higher redline
larger capacity oil pump
can run throttle calibration on your own (no computer needed)
has spark plug anti-fouling protocall than can also be run (although I have never needed it)
better ECM with more processing power.
If you are only going to do simple intake/exhaust mods...go with the 08+ bikes and just buy the Buell race ECM.  I have only new airfilter, and exaust and race ECM...the thing runs night and day different than before...its just a dream.  

I bought an 07 and felt ripped off for having bought too early.  I don't think that way now.

The 08+ has some significant improvments
 - The entire crank is better on the 08+. The crank is a larger diameter - not just the pins. And the conrods are stronger.
 - The biggest advantage with all this is that the front pulley is held on with a bolt and not a nut.
   This little thing addresses a common mid-life failure.
 - The 08+ has an "almost forged" piston.  The pistons are the reason the rev limit could be extended.
 - The 08+ was supposed to have a shorter travel throttle which I wanted - when I measured them the travel was the same.
 - The 08+ foul plugs more easily because they run richer and (and use more fuel).  The anti-fouling protocol rarely works
 - The 08+ ECM samples more that 10x faster.  
   With this the tune will run a wider range of mufflers without the same problems of the early models.
 - Crank Position sensor that never needs static adjustment
 - TPS reset protocol using throttle movements
 - Redesigned oil pump that is effectively the Cam cover
 - Automatic idle adjustment - a bit of a pain because the idle is high


My comments are
 - I know only one person who has bent a rod on a pre-08 and no one who has done a crank.
   The friend who did the rod had the front wheel against another bike and was trying to do a burnout force-em-back.
 - The 08+ pistons retrofit to the earlier models and you could then increase the rev limit on the pre 08
 - The increased rev limit is not a big advantage with stock and Buell Race mufflers. These produce peak power at 6500 RPM
   There are aftermarket mufflers that will keep producing more power well beyond this
 - The crank nut has a revised torque and it is now a very rare failure. (The pulley bolt is still the best mod on the 08+)
 - The advice with the 08+ was never to warm the bike longer than fitting the helmet and gloves.
   The early models rarely foul plugs if they are tuned to the muffler
 - 08+ will run mufflers like Jardines or Drummers OK off the stock ECM.
   They still have running issues and I'd recommend the EBR ECMs for them
 - Mufflers like the TorqueHammer and systems like the Micron don't run well at all on them.
   You need to tune an 08+ to an exhaust same as the pre-08
 - Tuning for a pre-08 is often easier and cheaper.
 - With a Micron, tune and taller gearing on my Firebolt I could get 300+ km (over 200 miles) on a 14 litre tank.
   A short wheel base 08+ model won't get near that no matter what you do.
 - The charging systems seem to fail a little more oftem on the 08+. That is my observation and not proven.

We had some club drags recently and my 07 with a TorqueHammer got away quicker than any of the other XBs. (08+ or not) One friend with a Micron on his 07 wasn't there and I'd expect him to be quicker.  I'm running gearing that is 11% higher than stock so it was a surprise.

A friend bought a TorqueHammer off me a few weeks ago. It comes with a free tune for 04-07 models. He lives in a cold area and he found it wasn't running well when it was cold.  I told him that I'd bumped up my cold start enrichment in the bottom cell and got him to do the same.  Perfect.  He has control of his ECM and so he owns his bike.

You can get ECMSpy for the later models (and I'd recommend it) but the early one is simple.

I am really happy with my 07

[JTM]

I'll be posting the ad for my 08 in the for sale section shortly.