Lots of Affordable Buells

[Rogue]

Just for shits and giggles I went trolling through the Bad Weather Bikers Classified section.

I could not believe how affordable used Buells are right now.  There are so many with so few miles on them…it feels almost wrong!  Many of them are 2006 and newer models, which are the most desirable due to many improvements over the early versions.  Earlier version are even more of a bargain.  I believe the ‘09’s to ‘10’s are the best, but most are ’07-’09.  In my opinion, these Buell XB’s are undervalued for several reasons:

1)  These bikes offer modern performance thanks to higher grade components that is a whole level above those so-called affordable bikes from Japan.
2)  They are VERY LOW maintenance so ownership is simple and very cheap, compared to almost ANY bike of equivalent hardware.
3)  Parts are very plentiful thanks to a long production run, still existing support from H-D and other places in the internet
4)  Owner support is very strong so the knowledge base is healthy

This is probably the “sweet spot” wherein you can still buy a used Buell that is fairly new, hasn’t been beaten or abused by multiple owners, at bargain prices.  I’ve been looking high and low for a bike that has that balance of performance, low maintenance, easy ownership, uniqueness, good looks, and price.  So far the Buell XB’s are the only ones out there.

[Rincewind]

What kind of low deals are you talking about?  The prices on Cycle Trader still seem generally high.  I have thought about a XB commuter but $6500 for late models is still a little high, especially considering the "Blowout" sales they had when Buell first stopped production.  

[Rogue]

Rincewind, go to BWB Classifieds and see for yourself.

I saw an '07 Firebolt XB12R with about 6k miles in there and the guy dropped his price to $4k!  My friend is selling his '07 Lightning Long for about the same.  There are more.

Having said that, think about the value these bikes will give you.  I just went to see the closest equivalent to a Lightning XB12S and it's the (ironically) and H-D XR1200 and they were asking $13k!  $10k for a used one.  $11k for a left over year old model.

Even if you get a Lightning XB12S for $6k the value is tremendous.  The value lies in its modern performance and hardware, low maintenance, and continued parts and service support.  How much is a Kawasaki Ninja 650?  A Yamaha FZ8?  A Monster 696?  Even if you are able to find one of those at $6k, the Lightning XB12S still trumps them all in the value to performance ratio.  Then there is that added incentive of spending most of your time just riding the thing rather than dreading the next major maintenance/valve inspection interval and spending the $$ to have someone do that for you, finding a good dealer, etc.  When you are facing the realities of a daily commute that has you putting 15k miles on a bike yearly, that is a big incentive!

[Prubert]

This one looks interesting!

2009 Uly for Sale

[scottzilla]

I think they are a bit overpriced, especially the Uly's which Buell was giving away to get rid of 'em.
I sold my XB9SX in a nick of time; announcement of Buells demise came within weeks of me getting fair market value so yay me.

I consider the XB's performance on par with the SV650 or Versays.  If that's what you consider "Performance" you have extremely low standards.  Well made though, that's for sure.
I agree parts will remain plentiful but when they are gone-they're gone forever.

[Rincewind]

Rincewind, go to BWB Classifieds and see for yourself.

I saw an '07 Firebolt XB12R with about 6k miles in there and the guy dropped his price to $4k!  My friend is selling his '07 Lightning Long for about the same.  There are more.

Link  - http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/21/1019.html?1330652662

A Firebolt 1200 for $4k I would consider buying.  

Having said that, think about the value these bikes will give you.  I just went to see the closest equivalent to a Lightning XB12S and it's the (ironically) and H-D XR1200 and they were asking $13k!  $10k for a used one.  $11k for a left over year old model.

I don't see that as being the closest equivalent to a Lighting XB12S unless you are limiting yourself to pushrod motors.  

Even if you get a Lightning XB12S for $6k the value is tremendous.  The value lies in its modern performance and hardware, low maintenance, and continued parts and service support.  How much is a Kawasaki Ninja 650?  A Yamaha FZ8?  A Monster 696?  Even if you are able to find one of those at $6k, the Lightning XB12S still trumps them all in the value to performance ratio.  Then there is that added incentive of spending most of your time just riding the thing rather than dreading the next major maintenance/valve inspection interval and spending the $$ to have someone do that for you, finding a good dealer, etc.  When you are facing the realities of a daily commute that has you putting 15k miles on a bike yearly, that is a big incentive!

My wife bought her 2009 SVF650 Gladius for $4800.  To me that's a good value versus a 2-3 year older Buell.  The Buell has the edge in suspension and brakes, but I don't think the engine is better than the SV650 liquid-cooled engine.  The SV revs higher and doesn't act handicapped on the overrun.

I get what you mean about lower maintenance costs, but a 1200 Buell would also mean higher insurance cost.  I bet the money would not be that much different if you look at overall costs versus a middleweight liquid-cooled bike.  Add to that less expensive tires and likely less frequent tire replacements, and the Buell is not necessarily the cost king.

[Rogue]

Rince I looked at the Gladius and it is a fine motorcycle in its own right.  But it is an economy bike, pure and simple.  Yes, it's fun and all that but having ridden an SV650 myself, I know that bike has a great frame and engine but it needs more brakes and needs way better suspension than it comes with.  The Gladius is no different.  For commuting though it's just fine.

Didn't you own and XB at one point?  I can't recall exactly.

This is why I'm convinced the XB's are the best value for performance in the used bike market right now.  These bikes come with fully adjustable Showa suspension, strong brakes, 450 lbs. wet, torque everywhere, modern looks.  Any XB will leave an SV/Gladius behind in the turns very easily.  Then there's the maintenance.  The SV/Gladius requires valve inspection every 12k miles no?  Shim under bucket?  That means camshaft removal.  The XB's don't need any.  There's also chain maintenance.  XB's don't need those.  

Again, one of my main points is that the XB's are pretty much a ride it more, work on it less deal.  I haven't done the exact math to see which cost les to own.

[Rogue]

The H-D XR1200 is the closest equivalent to an XB12S/Ss.  It has the same powertrain, but he Buell has more power.  Go figure that out!

The XR1200 is the only one out there that has the minimum maintenance that makes the XB's so desirable to me.

The other equivalent to the XR1200 is the BMW R1200R, the Griso 1200 8V, and then there are the Japanese inline four nakeds.  All of them except the XR1200 need those major service intervals.  I don't know if the R1200R (w/ 4-valve heads) and the Griso 8V require camshaft removal to get to the shims or they employ finger followers to get to shims.  But the Japanese I-4's will all require camshaft removal every 16k miles.  I think the Yamaha FZ1 only every 26k miles.

[Rincewind]

No I didn't own an XB, though I test rode a number of them.  What kept me off was, 1. engine performance (low rev ceiling particularly); 2. high insurance quotes which would have nullified the maintenance savings.  SV valve checks are 14,500miles.  Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate your points about the low maintenance combined with the high specifications of Buells making them an excellent used bike value.  Btw - I don't think the Griso or newer R1200R require camshaft removal, though the newer R1200R requires shims.

Last month I made up a comparison spreadsheet of bikes I was interested in and I included common labor hours for valve maintenance and their listed check intervales.  The bikes with the very least labor hours per 10,000 miles were: the R1200R, Griso, Bonnie, FZ8, V7.  All of these had labor requirements of about 1.13-1.5 hours per 10,000 miles.  Like you say, the Buell/HD route nullifies that labor, but I don't see that as the end of the equation if you look at TCO.  For now I see valve maintenance as a necessary evil for the higher revving engines that I enjoy.

[Rogue]

Rince, now I remember.  Yes you didn't like the low rev factor.

It's a different kind of riding.  I do believe the Griso, Boxers, and A-C Ducs share these.  The later model XB's have a redline of 7.4k RPM.  The 9's have an 8k Redline.  I rode my VFR and XB12 back to back and believe you me, I preferred the XB12's low and midrange torque most of the time.  I will admit, when you REALLY want to go fast or make an aggressive pass, having that strong top end kick is very nice to have.  Those were the only times the XB12's disappointed me.  However, that limitation also acted as a safety valve as it kept my speeds in check.  I still got a BS ticket on my Firebolt though (70 in a 65) so it wasn't always effective!  

The fact is I miss my Firebolt.  I commute a lot and the more I commute the more I miss its overall performance.  It had the perfect balance of not being overly fast as to have me backing off all the time, yet when I called for more power it was able to deliver.  My 1125R is like the Firebolt but with massive top end power so when I call for more steam I get an afterburner full.  It's a ton of fun for sure.  But I can easily land in jail on that thing!  

[DogBoy]

The H-D XR1200 is the closest equivalent to an XB12S/Ss.  It has the same powertrain, but he Buell has more power.  Go figure that out!

The XR1200 is the only one out there that has the minimum maintenance that makes the XB's so desirable to me.

The other equivalent to the XR1200 is the BMW R1200R, the Griso 1200 8V, and then there are the Japanese inline four nakeds.  All of them except the XR1200 need those major service intervals.  I don't know if the R1200R (w/ 4-valve heads) and the Griso 8V require camshaft removal to get to the shims or they employ finger followers to get to shims.  But the Japanese I-4's will all require camshaft removal every 16k miles.  I think the Yamaha FZ1 only every 26k miles.

News Flash: Valve clearance inspection is the not the same as a valve adjustment. You don't need to remove the cams to inspect clearances; only to adjust them. Not all bikes need valve clearance adjustment at the inspection intervals. However, the inspection requires removing the tank and/or bodywork and valve cover to access the valve train for inspection.

[Rogue]

Dogboy, I do know this.

There is still a high probably you will need to change out a shim or a few.

[Rogue]

 For now I see valve maintenance as a necessary evil for the higher revving engines that I enjoy.

I hear you 100%.

For me I was okay with that too.  Still am because I do like the high rev capability and top end of a modern, liquid cooled, DOHC engine.  It's just that, having experienced what it's like NOT to have to do any of these things on a bike that gives me 80%-90% of the performance, things like no coolant to replace, no chain to lube or adjust, not ever needing to remove that airbox and valve cover, no throttle body sync, etc., it makes me wonder if it's all worth it.

[scottzilla]

Vastly different cams and heads, different fuel injection and plenum, and an increase in rev limit.

The XR1200 cams are directly from the XB line.  At least that's what I recall reading when the XR1200 came out.  Not sure about the head though.

Forgive my intrusion; Rogue has selective ignore feature engaged so I wasn't sure he would respond.
I remember when teh XR was introduced feeling rather lustful for it, then realizing the City X I had sold would kill it deader than dead.

[atadaskew]

Griso has screw adjust threads.  No shims.  No cams to remove.
Plus the jugs are out in the breeze.

[scottzilla]

Griso has screw adjust threads.  No shims.  No cams to remove.
Plus the jugs are out in the breeze.

Well, at least you're no longer constantly talking about scooters.

[DogBoy]

Dogboy, I do know this.

There is still a high probably you will need to change out a shim or a few.

Unless you can express that probability, you aren't presenting facts. Rather, you are skewing the argument in your favor using assumptions. "Shim under bucket valve adjustments on inline 4s and V4s is a time consuming pain in the butt and/or expensive to have done at a shop" is a fair statement. Insisting inspection intervals are the same as adjustment intervals is not. BTW, my YZF600 had all valves in spec at its 26,000 mile inspection.

[DogBoy]

I've done a few bikes that simply were not, are not, and never will be worth the money to do the job, IMO. And some of the bikes, I'll never buy (or re-buy) for myself because of the stupidity of the valve check/adjust interval, and labor intensity of the job.

Fair statement and a fair argument for purchasing a bike like an HD or Buell XB.

[Kootenanny]

I consider the XB's performance on par with the SV650 or Versays.  If that's what you consider "Performance" you have extremely low standards.  

I can't believe that anyone who's ridden both a Buell XB and an SV650 would think the performance was "on par."  I was strongly advised to get an SV650 rather than a Buell, on the grounds that the performance was similar but the SV would be more reliable--am I ever glad I ignored that advice and got the Buell anyway.  I've ridden SVs, both 650s and 1000s--indeed, near the end of shopping my short list included only the SV1000S and the XB9R--and the Buell is a more capable bike IMO.  The engine has far more grunt at lower revs (where I prefer to keep it) than the SV650--and although the SV1000 definitely has "more engine," I found the XB to be a better balanced bike with a more capable chassis.  (Plus the XB's engine "character" adds a lot to the riding experience as well, which is a bonus IMO.)

Now, I do like the SV650...a few years ago, a friend was shopping for a bike and I recommended he look at an SV650S that was available.  I went along when he test rode it, and we swapped for a bit (I wanted to sample the SV650S).  Afterwards he was amazed with the Buell--his comments were along the lines of he was surprised with the power, because he'd heard that Buells were so anemic.  The difference here is, of course, the Buell has power at pretty low revs, which means you're generally already in the powerband when you twist the throttle; the SV, while perhaps torquey compared to an I4, just doesn't compare.  You gotta get into the revs (and even there, it's still short on power compared to the XB).

I think there is a prevalence among American riders to buy far more bike than they need.  I have a buddy with an SV1000S, and he doesn't keep up to me on my Buell in the twisties...I've ridden with guys on GSX-R1000s and BMW K1300s who struggle to keep up, even though their bikes are ostensibly "faster."  That said, I've also ridden with guys who are MUCH faster than I am, and I'm sure some of them would leave me in the dust on an SV650 (or a Ninja 250)...the thing is, it's not the bike, it's the rider.  

[scottzilla]

I can't believe that anyone who's ridden both a Buell XB and an SV650 would think the performance was "on par."  I was strongly advised to get an SV650 rather than a Buell, on the grounds that the performance was similar but the SV would be more reliable--am I ever glad I ignored that advice and got the Buell anyway.  I've ridden SVs, both 650s and 1000s--indeed, near the end of shopping my short list included only the SV1000S and the XB9R--and the Buell is a more capable bike IMO.  The engine has far more grunt at lower revs (where I prefer to keep it) than the SV650--and although the SV1000 definitely has "more engine," I found the XB to be a better balanced bike with a more capable chassis.  (Plus the XB's engine "character" adds a lot to the riding experience as well, which is a bonus IMO.)

Now, I do like the SV650...a few years ago, a friend was shopping for a bike and I recommended he look at an SV650S that was available.  I went along when he test rode it, and we swapped for a bit (I wanted to sample the SV650S).  Afterwards he was amazed with the Buell--his comments were along the lines of he was surprised with the power, because he'd heard that Buells were so anemic.  The difference here is, of course, the Buell has power at pretty low revs, which means you're generally already in the powerband when you twist the throttle; the SV, while perhaps torquey compared to an I4, just doesn't compare.  You gotta get into the revs (and even there, it's still short on power compared to the XB).

I think there is a prevalence among American riders to buy far more bike than they need.  I have a buddy with an SV1000S, and he doesn't keep up to me on my Buell in the twisties...I've ridden with guys on GSX-R1000s and BMW K1300s who struggle to keep up, even though their bikes are ostensibly "faster."  That said, I've also ridden with guys who are MUCH faster than I am, and I'm sure some of them would leave me in the dust on an SV650 (or a Ninja 250)...the thing is, it's not the bike, it's the rider.  

The point is neither the Buell XB series or mid sized Japanese bikes stand a chance against a fast bike.
You're not that good, believe me.  Keeping up with squids on a Buell is easy.  A capable rider on an R6 will beat you, wether you care to admit it or not.