THE UTTER FAILURE OF THE POLICE

[klavdy]

THE UTTER FAILURE OF THE POLICE

How do feel when you suddenly, apropos of nothing, see a cop car in your mirrors? Do you immediately breathe a sigh of relief that your safety is assured? Are you comforted in the knowledge that the police are protecting you from evil-doers and that their presence behind you is a reassuring example of their abiding love for the citizens they are sworn to serve and protect? Or do you start hyperventilating and wondering what idiotic nuance of the Motor Traffic Act you might have inadvertently failed to observe in the last five kays as you strove not to be crushed under the wheels of some iPhone-wielding retard in a car?
“Yes,” bleat the omniscient motorcycle-owning cardigans who pollute our roads with their refusal to take responsibility for their riding. “If you have done nothing wrong, then you’ve got nothing to worry about.”

If only that were true. But it’s not.
Motorcycle riders must ride faster than the flow of traffic in order to survive. That is a simple fact. If you are riding with the flow of traffic you will come to grief. It’s a no-brainer.
But since these beige-hued mugwumps aren’t actually riders, I do not expect them to understand this. Owning a motorcycle does not make you a rider any more than owning a gun makes you a criminal.

For the most part, when a rider sees a cop car in his mirrors, he understands that in all likelihood he will be pulled up for a licence check, a not-so-random breath test and a healthy dose of rudeness, disdain and contempt by the armed Mensa-aspirant in a uniform. And that is the best-case scenario. The worst-case scenario is that the rider will be subjected to an entire barrage of fascist crap about his (subjectively) excessive speed, followed by some half-informed bullshit about his tail-tidy/cylindrical rego holder/aftermarket pipe, while car after car motors past with virtually every driver fixated by his on-board GPS or texting on his phone.
This is wrong on so many levels.

But why do we instantly feel like we’ve done something wrong (even if we haven’t) whenever a police vehicle looms in our mirrors?
It’s because that is how the police want you to feel. And their entire demeanour and attitude is geared to perpetuating the feeling that you’re certainly guilty of something – even if you’re not.

If you need a better example of how the police have failed in their duty to the citizenry, then you also need professional counselling. The question that goes begging in our supposedly free western democracy is why do the police feel the need to cultivate such a sentiment among us? Do they imagine this is a positive thing? Are they deluded enough to believe that such fear breeds respect? Do they think that their endless howls for “More power!” to combat crime and the miniscule road toll are actually supported by the very citizens they harass and intimidate?

I think they do, and that is what scares the shit out of me.
But let us look objectively at this organisation of armed law enforcers and see if they are actually worthy of serving us as their mandate directs.
In recent times the police have piled failure upon failure and sold it to us, via their media unit, as a lack of “power”.
Sydney’s western suburbs are a free-fire zone each day, with drive-by after drive-by. The cops, unable to persuade anyone into speaking to them about anything (no doubt because the public loves, respects and trusts them so much), have now handed this problem to the NSW Crime Commission, an organisation not encumbered by the pesky legal constraints placed on the cops when it comes to making you talk. The police would like nothing more than to have the same frightfully coercive powers, but thus far the government has denied them these powers – and for this small mercy I am grateful.

But every day and in every way, the police shriek at the government to grant them more powers to coerce and intimidate the very people they are meant to ward from harm. They seek to ride roughshod over a person’s right to silence. They seek to dictate how society should behave, rather than just dealing with how it actually does behave – as if we were stupid naughty children in dire need of their armed quasi-parental governance.

Their dealings with motorcyclists by the side of the road are nothing but exercises in debasement and intimidation that do nothing but promote contempt for them. A polite Highway Patrol officer is by far the exception, rather than the rule – and I simply cannot understand why they think that is a positive thing.
In simple terms, so that even the glass-tasters can grasp it, it’s like this: The police are not (yet) empowered to re-engineer our society in a way that pleases them. They are there to police the society they are given. Play the bloody hand you’re dealt, gentlemen, not the hand you wish you had.
Or go and get another job.


The above was penned by Mr Boris Mihailovic and first appeared in Australian Motorcycle News, March 2012.
It is specific to Sydney, Australia but applies to many other parts of the world.
Boris kindly gave his permission to reproduce it here.

[bdhszy1]

Well said. The only driver/rider that doesn't feel anything when they see a police car behind them is an off duty cop.

[BBB]

Looks like Boris has a degree in talking bollocks

[st2sam]

WHOA - I'm sure glad it's not that bad (yet) in the good old US of A.......

I always start hyperventilating when I see a cop in my mirrors, because I never ride with the flow of traffic.    

[slvrsprint]

"But why do we instantly feel like we’ve done something wrong (even if we haven’t) whenever a police vehicle looms in our mirrors?"

It sounds to me like you don't ride without doing something wrong - speeding, modified exhaust, other altered equipment.

My motorcycle is legal in NYS.  I have never been stopped without being observed breaking the law - exceeding the posted speed limit by more than a little.  More times than not, I am let off after a discussion about my violation.  

I don't see the utter failure your subject title indicates.

[spd2918]

Looks like Mr. Fancypants got a ticket.  

[Hunter]

"How do feel when you suddenly, apropos of nothing, see a cop car in your mirrors?"

I don't feel anything. I do, however, wonder if he got close enough to get my tag number.

[HipGnosis]

I stopped reading after the third exagerated catch phrase...
I am the master my my domain.

[county]

Fucking cops...

[black hills]

the only time I ever see a cop in my mirrors is with his lights on wanting to talk to me?? it usually goes just fine, I don't see the problem. I break the law, I know it, they know it, yet I usually just get a semi-friendly discussion and I go along my merry little way. What is there to be afraid of

[Frontrunner76]

I stopped reading after the third exaggerated catch phrase...

I stopped after the second. I don't feel anything when police are behind me. If you don't break the law, what's there to feel uncomfortable about?

[GTS_Rider]

... If you don't break the law, what's there to feel uncomfortable about what fun is that?

ftfy

[jay547]

I don't feel anything when police are behind me. If you don't break the law, what's there to feel uncomfortable about?

so you've never been pulled over for some made-up violation or bogus accusation? i have, although none have been while on a motorcycle.

[Rogue]

so you've never been pulled over for some made-up violation or bogus accusation? i have, although none have been while on a motorcycle.

Yup.  I'm with you.  Both times it was California's Finest.  Even when I was doing the speed limit (one mph below) I still got a ticket for 15 over!  

So yeah.  It's hard for me to trust cops nowadays.

[cbsnbiker]

"But why do we instantly feel like we’ve done something wrong (even if we haven’t) whenever a police vehicle looms in our mirrors?"

It sounds to me like you don't ride without doing something wrong - speeding, modified exhaust, other altered equipment.

My motorcycle is legal in NYS.  I have never been stopped without being observed breaking the law - exceeding the posted speed limit by more than a little.  More times than not, I am let off after a discussion about my violation.  

I don't see the utter failure your subject title indicates.

I have been pulled over multiple times when I was not committing any infraction, and have been ticketed on phantom -- or possibly fradulent -- charges.

I've also been pulled over to be messed with.

The first time I ever heard of "DWB" was after a colleague was subject to it.

There is also the issue that traffic codes are structured in such a way as to make it a challenge *not* to commit any infractions.


That said, there is material to disagree with in that article, even beyond its hyperbolic tone. Here's one example:

Motorcycle riders must ride faster than the flow of traffic in order to survive. That is a simple fact. If you are riding with the flow of traffic you will come to grief. It’s a no-brainer.

No, it is an opinion.

If this be a fact, I'd love to see a study that has proved this putative fact. Or I'd like to see some statistics that support this opinion.

Furthermore, the author's implicit admission that he rides that way undermines his point, since he implicitly admits speeding.

[TBone]

the only time I ever see a cop in my mirrors is with his lights on wanting to talk to me?? it usually goes just fine, I don't see the problem. I break the law, I know it, they know it, yet I usually just get a semi-friendly discussion and I go along my merry little way. What is there to be afraid of

I stopped after the second. I don't feel anything when police are behind me. If you don't break the law, what's there to feel uncomfortable about?

The OP is from Australia, things may be different there.

[Rogue]

I've been riding in SoCal all my life.

If you ride with the flow of traffic, you will be surrounded by SUV's, pick ups, minivans, commercial trucks, trucks carrying shit on their beds, distracted Mom's, Old Drivers who can't decide, tailgated, cut off, etc.

Do I really want to be next to all these kinds of people while on a motorcycle?

NOT!  

So no I don't ride with the flow unless I have plenty of room around me and have no vehicles cruising next to me to cut me off.  Yes, I've had that happen.  If I have a three second gap in front of me, as sure as the sun sets in the West, someone will cut in front me and occupy that lane.  But I don't ride at 10 mph over everyone else.  I just position myself to be in front of or well behind of anything else out there.  That's survival 101 in one of the most congested urban areas in the country.

[Royal Tiger]

Are there awards given around here for the most over blown, the sky is falling, bullshit thread titles?  And in all caps too.  

[boogeyman]

I stopped after the second. I don't feel anything when police are behind me. If you don't break the law, what's there to feel uncomfortable about?

The tickets I've receved from the police have been deserved.  I didn't like them, but whose fault was it?  Some were technically crap, but they were all that they could get me on.    I've gotten out of my fair share of tickets as well by just being honest.  Personally I feel more uncomfortable when they are in front of me.  They tend to make quick u-turns with little announcement, cause others to drive like knuckleheads, generally muck up traffic.

[Biking Sailor]

"Motorcycle riders must ride faster than the flow of traffic in order to survive. That is a simple fact. If you are riding with the flow of traffic you will come to grief. It’s a no-brainer."

While this being a "fact" could be argued, I do feel much safer when I am riding slightly faster than traffic, so I am not being tailgated, I am not getting caught in traffic bunches where my escape routes are being cut off,  I don't have to worry so much about stuff falling out of trucks in front of me,  I get to pick the time and space I ride in instead of the guy overtaking me, and at speed wind buffeting is less in clear air so control is increased.

[Papa Lazarou]

This isn't just about motorcycles.

Usually law abiding car drivers only ever come into contact with the police when they are stopped for (usually) minor traffic law infringements. Are motorcyclists more likely to be stopped? I don't think so-except for that time in Wales when an unmarked police car drove so far up my arse I had to go faster to get away from him-then he stopped me for speeding. Arsehole.

Do I trust the (UK) police? yes. They are mostly not corrupt and they are mostly fair. Yes, there is the odd tosser.

This article comes over as more whingeing by a biker. We are NOT simply victims-I utterly reject that pessimistic viewpoint that the author takes.

[DredheadV2.0]

Looks like Mr. Fancypants got a ticket.  

 

I've been riding for a quarter century now (holy crap) and I've never been stopped for any illegitimate reason.  This despite my appearance, which in many places would make me seem like everything I do is illegitimate (though moreso in the 80's).  The only non-speeding stops - once for a broken taillight (you should get that fixed right away; some guy speeding won't see you til it's too late!) and once for having no M-class license (kid, I'm happy to see you have insurance, and so I'm going to let you go with this warning: Your insurance is actually invalid unless you have the motorcycle endorsement) were actually quite helpful in maintaining my personal health and safety.

Yes, I've been stopped for speeding.  Because I was speeding.  I've gotten some warnings there too, and paid fines otherwise.  When I ride in traffic, I DO ride faster than some cars, but also slower than others, maintaining my presense in as many drivers' distracted minds as possible.  Going 20+ the flow of traffic isn't necessary to maintain safety, and if you're doing it with the conviction that it IS you're only one step removed from the Loud Pipes acolytes IMHO

[Mookie]

  I'm always speeding or otherwise being pulled over for good-ish reason, but I don't worry because I have a good lawyer.  

[Dan K]

THE UTTER FAILURE OF THE POLICE

...

For the most part, when a rider sees a cop car in his mirrors, he understands that in all likelihood he will be pulled up for a licence check, a not-so-random breath test and a healthy dose of rudeness, disdain and contempt by the armed Mensa-aspirant in a uniform. And that is the best-case scenario. The worst-case scenario is that the rider will be subjected to an entire barrage of fascist crap about his (subjectively) excessive speed, followed by some half-informed bullshit about his tail-tidy/cylindrical rego holder/aftermarket pipe, while car after car motors past with virtually every driver fixated by his on-board GPS or texting on his phone.
This is wrong on so many levels.

...

Wrong because not true, at least in CHicago.  I wave at almost every cop I see and 9 of 10 wave back.  Glad I don't live in Sydney.

- Dan

[ambientboy]

Certainly not an issue here in KC.  I see the cops regularly and have never been hassled, in fact, I usually give them a nod as I ride by.  Usually, I get a nod in response.  I have no problem with cops.

[Fourstring]

Wrong because not true, at least in CHicago.  I wave at almost every cop I see and 9 of 10 wave back.  Glad I don't live in Sydney.

- Dan

This.  In Illinois, they're just thrilled I'm wearing a helmet.

[Spanky]

I have been riding on the street for almost 30 years   mostly in Pennsylvania and I have only been pulled over one time that was bogus. I had a new bike with less than 500 miles on it and I was pulled over for an out of date inspection sticker - not. The police officer quickly admitted the mistake and I was on my way, no harm, no foul. There were many more times that I was pulled over for a legitimate reason and was given a ticket for less than I deserved. I may be lucky, but so far I am way ahead in terms of fines paid vs. fines deserved. I think your attitude and how you talk to the officer may play a large part in how they write the ticket - not every time, but most of the time in my experience. Be polite, be honest, it pays off in the long run.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

so you've never been pulled over for some made-up violation or bogus accusation? i have, although none have been while on a motorcycle.

Nope.  And I'm in my 50's.  

[bubba zanetti]

Nope.  And I'm in my 50's.  

Cop hat in the rear window ?

[Scratch33]

What's this thread about...?  

FTP, in so many words.

[Justin]

THE UDDER FAILURE OF THE COWS

How do feel when you suddenly, apropos of nothing, see a cow in your mirrors? Do you immediately breathe a sigh of relief knowing you will enjoy a glass of milk later? Are you comforted in the knowledge that the cows are ensuring a steady flow of milk and beef? Or do you start hyperventilating and wondering why there is f**king cow following you on the road? ...

 

[Mookie]

Nope.  And I'm in my 50's.  

I did all the time back when I lived in NC, not so much on the West coast.  Those cops were great at profiling yet really bad at actually preventing crimes.  

[ambientboy]

This.  In Illinois, they're just thrilled I'm wearing a helmet.

Same thing when I cut through the Kansas side...I'm the only guy with a helmet on.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

Cop hat in the rear window ?

Nope.  No FOP stickers, tags or anything marking me as a former cop.  

[Hardware]

Blah, blah, fucking blah...


The above was penned by Mr Boris Mihailovic and first appeared in Australian Motorcycle News, March 2012.
It is specific to Sydney, Australia but applies to many other parts of the world.
Boris kindly gave his permission to reproduce it here.

Nice broad sweeping generalizations there.  I'll use the same BS style of rationale to conclude that all Aussies are fucking retards.

[viffergyrl]

Well you know... some people just have a 'way' with cops....

Edit: If you have been unjustly pulled over and harassed I hope you fought it and won.  

[Rogue]

I did.

Won one.  Took the other to traffic school (better to have a sure thing than lose).  

[cbsnbiker]

Well you know... some people just have a 'way' with cops....

Edit: If you have been unjustly pulled over and harassed I hope you fought it and won.  

On a few occasions, yes.

Other times, my lawyer said that I was going to be found guilty no matter the facts, so I might as well just plead it down and be done with it.

And I definitely do *not* "just have a 'way' with cops." I know that that wasn't directed at me, but I do want to emphasize that point. I am always polite and courteous.

[viffergyrl]

On a few occasions, yes.

Other times, my lawyer said that I was going to be found guilty no matter the facts, so I might as well just plead it down and be done with it.

And I definitely do *not* "just have a 'way' with cops." I know that that wasn't directed at me, but I do want to emphasize that point. I am always polite and courteous.

Correct - I was thinking of the attitude projected by the man being quoted in the OP and of several people I've run into in my lifetime. Like others here I've not had these instances where I felt that I was stopped without cause.

But it's not a perfect world and this is why the Internet is so powerful - information gets shared that can widen your view on a particular issue or topic.  

[GTS_Rider]

The OP is from Australia, things may be different there.

^^^ This!

From all I've heard, admittedly via interwebs, speed enforcement is over the top oppressive in kangaroo lands...

I don't know why everyone is giving him such a hard time. He's an oppressed brother of the moto-sect. How about a little support/compassion  here?

For sure, I know, he knows, the free-range opportunities of a well planned tour of California 'back-roads'. Eh, I've seen his videos...  

Sucks that he can't 'ride his own ride' in his own homeland without fear of license suspension or being thown in jail...

Any-case, I'd really like to do a moto tour in Australia, but I'm out. From all I've heard, the police are really hard-core on speed-enforcement there. Much easier to stick to homelands where one can still speed on empty minor roads without much fear of harsh fines and/or  license suspension...

 

[viffergyrl]

^^Good point - we have others from the land of Oz on this forum - I'd like to hear more about this situation.

[X1Glider]

This isn't just about motorcycles.

Usually law abiding car drivers only ever come into contact with the police when they are stopped for (usually) minor traffic law infringements. Are motorcyclists more likely to be stopped? I don't think so-except for that time in Wales when an unmarked police car drove so far up my arse I had to go faster to get away from him-then he stopped me for speeding. Arsehole.

Do I trust the (UK) police? yes. They are mostly not corrupt and they are mostly fair. Yes, there is the odd tosser.

This article comes over as more whingeing by a biker. We are NOT simply victims-I utterly reject that pessimistic viewpoint that the author takes.

You really trust the UK police?  So you've never been pulled over for no reason than other to have your plate and numbers measured by someone who thinks you're automatically doing something illegal?  You also trust them because drivers are easy targets as opposed to people that commit actual crimes against others?  Which is why they do not make an effort to pursue them?  Ever had your bike nicked and try to get it back?  Even if you knew where it was and who had it?  Coppers tell you to get it yourself. UK cops are a waste of financial resources becuase they do little for the public good, just harrassment of innocent taxpayers.

Not saying USA cops are the geatest on earth, but I've never been pulled over and ticketed for something I didn't do wrong or pulled over for suspicion just because I'm on a bike.  Gotta pay to play.

[ambientboy]

Do I trust the (UK) police? yes. They are mostly not corrupt and they are mostly fair. Yes, there is the odd tosser.

This article comes over as more whingeing by a biker. We are NOT simply victims-I utterly reject that pessimistic viewpoint that the author takes.

I'm gonna get your back on this one.  I've had great experiences with the cops all across England.  ...come to think of it, the only place I've ever had issues with over-zealous cops has been in New Jersey.

[cbsnbiker]

Valid points are being made by many people in this thread.

Here's one of my experiences, as counterpoint to my own point.

Quite a few years ago, I was pulled over in my car. As is often the case when I am pulled over, I was doing nothing wrong, so I wondered what was going on this time.

The officer told me that a car matching my description had been involved in some sort of incident, but I did not match the description of the person in question. He apologized for pulling me over, or said some other similar pleasantry, then let me go.

I do *not* count this in what I have written in this thread about being pulled over when I did nothing wrong, since I was treated well and did not receive a ticket or other legal action.

I can list several other similar examples.

[st2sam]

"Motorcycle riders must ride faster than the flow of traffic in order to survive. That is a simple fact. If you are riding with the flow of traffic you will come to grief. It’s a no-brainer."

While this being a "fact" could be argued, I do feel much safer when I am riding SLIGHTLY faster than traffic, so I am not being tailgated, I am not getting caught in traffic bunches where my escape routes are being cut off,  I don't have to worry so much about stuff falling out of trucks in front of me,  I get to pick the time and space I ride in instead of the guy overtaking me, and at speed wind buffeting is less in clear air so control is increased.

^^^^this and I'm 100% in agreement...
I'll bet most cops that ride motorcycles would also be in agreement.

The only time I was pulled over for no good reason was way back in 1979. It was on I -84 in PA. I was riding my brand new Honda CBX, the first one in the area. A Pennsylvania State Police officer just wanted to look at it and ask questions about the new bike.  

Thank God he didn't clock me!

[Royal Tiger]

Valid points are being made by many people in this thread.

Here's one of my experiences, as counterpoint to my own point.

Quite a few years ago, I was pulled over in my car. As is often the case when I am pulled over, I was doing nothing wrong, so I wondered what was going on this time.

The officer told me that a car matching my description had been involved in some sort of incident, but I did not match the description of the person in question. He apologized for pulling me over, or said some other similar pleasantry, then let me go.

I do *not* count this in what I have written in this thread about being pulled over when I did nothing wrong, since I was treated well and did not receive a ticket or other legal action.

I can list several other similar examples.

That's exactly how it is supposed to happen.  Good for him to treat you like you deserved and sent you on your way with a thank you and an apology.  Not all of us are jack asses, and I enjoy hearing positive stories since they are often never repeated.

[RangerG]

I ride a bike. The cops have never, ever caught me!  



I abide by the rules of the road..............most of the time, so they've never had a reason to stop me.  Got stopped 30 years ago by a Yellowstone Park Ranger.  He gave me a warning for having too much fun on twisty roads.  Actually he said that he had been following me for several miles but I was having too much fun to look in my mirror.  

[BBB]

You really trust the UK police?  So you've never been pulled over for no reason than other to have your plate and numbers measured by someone who thinks you're automatically doing something illegal?  You also trust them because drivers are easy targets as opposed to people that commit actual crimes against others?  Which is why they do not make an effort to pursue them?  Ever had your bike nicked and try to get it back?  Even if you knew where it was and who had it?  Coppers tell you to get it yourself. UK cops are a waste of financial resources becuase they do little for the public good, just harrassment of innocent taxpayers.

Not saying USA cops are the geatest on earth, but I've never been pulled over and ticketed for something I didn't do wrong or pulled over for suspicion just because I'm on a bike.  Gotta pay to play.

Now there speaks someone who doesn't really know what he is talking about.

[Tango59]

Blah Blah Blah Blah.. got a ticket... Blah Blah Blah...fucking cops...Blah Blah Blah... drank too much...Blah Blah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[clyde]

I stopped reading after the third exagerated catch phrase...
I am the master my my domain.

 

[misanthropist]

I ride a streetfightered gsxr and under my helmet you can't see my grey hair.  I don't make any particular effort not to enjoy my bike.

When police have pulled up behind me, as a general rule, it hasn't made me feel anything.  I have received ONE ticket, ever.  And I suspect it was never filed, as when I went to pay it, it wasn't there.  It was in a national park in California, and I was doing 70 in a 60 zone, I guess.  But the officer was perfectly polite despite the fact that he had to follow me for miles before I pulled over, as my side mirror was gone.  Yes, I only had one, and somebody broke it off.  I explained why I hadn't seen him right away and he was quite understanding.

The last time I was pulled over, the guy came up and said, in a friendly way, "May I see your license and your insurance, please?  You have expired stickers on your plates, but I think you just forgot to put the stickers on for this year."

I got out my insurance stuff and sure enough, there was a little envelope with a month and a day sticker inside.  

I put the stickers on and off we both went.

I'll admit that I'm white, employed, and overall pretty normal looking.  However I think that would be extremely hard to discern while I'm on a bike or in a car - particularly my usual vehicle, which has a fairly dark tint to all the rear glass.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that I'm a combination of A) not inclined to act like the particular type of idiot that really deserves police attention, and B) fairly trusting in the generally positive intentions of the local police.  Although I have also generally been treated well by police elsewhere.

[X1Glider]

Now there speaks someone who doesn't really know what he is talking about.

Really BBB?  Elaborate on what I don't know then, otherwise your comment has zero credibility.

Having lived in Gerrards Cross, Bucks for 4 years, commuting to Marathon Oil on Marlybone gives me a little insight to life inthe UK.  Not to mention all the other miles I've put on touring the country and the continent.  It's a safe bet, that as someone who wasn't born and raised in the UK, I was more inclined to see more of the country than those that have lived there their whole lives and typically never venture outside the county.  So, I got around.  I remember better days in the UK.  Plenty of good memories but I'd never live there again.

[BBB]

Really BBB?  Elaborate on what I don't know then, otherwise your comment has zero credibility.

With pleasure. Let's start off with this

" UK cops are a waste of financial resources becuase they do little for the public good, just harrassment of innocent taxpayers."

Nothing more than an opinion which is not backed up by any hard evidence. In fact, to describe it as an opinion gives the impression that it is a valid opinion, when in fact it is nothing more than an ill informed rant.

Or this

"You really trust the UK police?  So you've never been pulled over for no reason than other to have your plate and numbers measured by someone who thinks you're automatically doing something illegal?"

Asking a question doesn't provide any proof. By all means, back up your rant with some evidence but don't be surprised if you are called out for bullshit when you don't.

And this

  "You also trust them because drivers are easy targets as opposed to people that commit actual crimes against others?  Which is why they do not make an effort to pursue them?  Ever had your bike nicked and try to get it back?  Even if you knew where it was and who had it?  Coppers tell you to get it yourself."

More unsubstantiated bullshit.

Having lived in Gerrards Cross, Bucks for 4 years, commuting to Marathon Oil on Marlybone gives me a little insight to life inthe UK.  Not to mention all the other miles I've put on touring the country and the continent.  It's a safe bet, that as someone who wasn't born and raised in the UK, I was more inclined to see more of the country than those that have lived there their whole lives and typically never venture outside the county.  So, I got around.  I remember better days in the UK.  Plenty of good memories but I'd never live there again.

You say yourself you have "a little insight" and your postings on the subject show that is all you have. If you have had encounters with the police in the UK then judging by your attitude here I can fully understand why you appear to have had conflict with them.

I stand by my original comment that you don't know what you are talking about.

[X1Glider]

With pleasure. Let's start off with this

" UK cops are a waste of financial resources becuase they do little for the public good, just harrassment of innocent taxpayers."

Nothing more than an opinion which is not backed up by any hard evidence. In fact, to describe it as an opinion gives the impression that it is a valid opinion, when in fact it is nothing more than an ill informed rant.

Or this

"You really trust the UK police?  So you've never been pulled over for no reason than other to have your plate and numbers measured by someone who thinks you're automatically doing something illegal?"

Asking a question doesn't provide any proof. By all means, back up your rant with some evidence but don't be surprised if you are called out for bullshit when you don't.

And this

  "You also trust them because drivers are easy targets as opposed to people that commit actual crimes against others?  Which is why they do not make an effort to pursue them?  Ever had your bike nicked and try to get it back?  Even if you knew where it was and who had it?  Coppers tell you to get it yourself."

More unsubstantiated bullshit.



You say yourself you have "a little insight" and your postings on the subject show that is all you have. If you have had encounters with the police in the UK then judging by your attitude here I can fully understand why you appear to have had conflict with them.

I stand by my original comment that you don't know what you are talking about.

BBB, do you not realize that, in all your typing, you have only stated that you disagree with my opinion of UK police and not actually stated why?  Why did you bother?  Ask for evidence all you want, but who has the time and resources to dig up official documents because a twat like you disagrees with someones opinion?  Where's your hard evidence to discount me? It works both way, you know.  My opinion is based on 4 years of observations while living there and reading and hearing about UK police only picking easy targets for revenue generation while steering clear of true crime.  And the only time I've had run ins with the plod is them randomly checking plate measurements and tax discs and pretending they are qualified for roadside MOTs, not because I actually did something.  Unwarranted and unprovoked.

[BBB]

It doesn't say much for your argument that in reply you feel the need to resort to personal abuse. It's usually the sign that you had nothing to say in the first place.

[Mr.Black]

Is this the basic context of this thread?.

Opening post (cleansing rant).....

followed by........................

I have never been to the UK or Australia but you had better believe that I KNOW what is right and what is wrong with their politics, society and law enforcement.

poke jab.... poke jab....... you suck?


Ah, Sport Touring Dot Net.

I do love it here.


A friend of mine on Facebook posted last week about the State Trooper that was following him too closely was an ass and probably just late for coffee and some other jabs.


He's a cop, you are not. Accept it and move on or run for office and change stuff.

[Papa Lazarou]

BBB, do you not realize that, in all your typing, you have only stated that you disagree with my opinion of UK police and not actually stated why?  Why did you bother?  Ask for evidence all you want, but who has the time and resources to dig up official documents because a twat like you disagrees with someones opinion?  Where's your hard evidence to discount me? It works both way, you know.  My opinion is based on 4 years of observations while living there and reading and hearing about UK police only picking easy targets for revenue generation while steering clear of true crime.  And the only time I've had run ins with the plod is them randomly checking plate measurements and tax discs and pretending they are qualified for roadside MOTs, not because I actually did something.  Unwarranted and unprovoked.

I'll wade back in.

There is some merit to X1Glider's argument that the police pick on motorists-and it's not just bikers but all motorists-as an easy hit. As to whether it is a source of revenue generation, that is unlikely-it costs too much to provide much revenue-parking tickets, issued by civilian traffic wardens, do raise revenue.

I say there is some merit, because the largely middle class, law abiding Brit only comes into contact with the p;olice over traffic offences. Before the motor vehicle, the middle class didn't have this sort of contact. These law abiding citizens then started to complain that the police ought to out catching real criminals (which they do, BTW).

So, why do the police pick on motorists? They are an easier hit-expired tax, speeding, small numberplate, whatever. Because it's on display and on the national computer. But look at our accident rates, road death rates etc. They would be a lot higher without the police doing what they do. Accident rates have come down, particularly those linked to drink driving. No, I don't like getting a ticket for speeding, which I did last year, and, no, speeding is not the main cause of accidents (although it is related to fatal accidents), but it it is easily measurable, making it easier to police.

If you break a traffic law without good cause, you get fined. If they pull you over to check your bike is legal, fair enough. They tend to be polite. What's the problem?

[Orson]

I've been to Blackpool.

[Hardware]

We all bitch incessantly about bad drivers, how they kill & maim motorcyclists and small children while texting and driving drunk, yet when police make a traffic stop, they're jackbooted revenue collectors infringing on your rights.

[Papa Lazarou]

I've been to Blackpool.

So have I. I like the old fairground rides there. The town itself stinks.

[county]

I'll wade back in.

There is some merit to X1Glider's argument that the police pick on motorists-and it's not just bikers but all motorists-as an easy hit.

Fucking cops...

[Mr.Black]

Fucking cops...

You forgot this

 

[sprk_sprd]

Must all motorcycle forums eventually turn into gixxer.com?  

[Papa Lazarou]

Must all motorcycle forums eventually turn into gixxer.com?  

Well, at least nobody has called anyone a Nazi or mentioned the Nazis.....whoops.

[BBB]

Well, at least nobody has called anyone a Nazi or mentioned the Nazis.....whoops.

Does mention of the Nazi's mean that Godwin's law has been invoked or does it have to involve the specific mention of Hitler??

[Papa Lazarou]

Does mention of the Nazi's mean that Godwin's law has been invoked or does it have to involve the specific mention of Hitler??

Yes.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

We all bitch incessantly about bad drivers, how they kill & maim motorcyclists and small children while texting and driving drunk, yet when police make a traffic stop, they're jackbooted revenue collectors infringing on your rights.

Please quit with the factual posts.  It doesn't fit here.

[02Tac]

I stopped after the second. I don't feel anything when police are behind me. If you don't break the law, what's there to feel uncomfortable about?

That sums it up right there.

[Windblown]

My daughter and I had this conversation the other day. We're going down the road and she suddenly blurts out "Crap, there's a cop behind me!" I asked "So?" She says "I don't want to get a ticket."  I ask "Are you speeding?" She says "No." I say "Well then don't worry about it. Pay attention to what's in front of you." Of course in her defense she's been with me a few times when I've been pulled over. LOL

Right, wrong, or indifferent, I think most folks tend to worry a bit when a cop is on their six.  The list of reasons that one might get pulled over is lengthy if they're on the prowl. Hell I get a bit nervous too sometimes. I don't always come to a full stop, though I always carefully scan since I have no interest in becoming a road pizza.  I don't always follow the speed limit exactly though 99.5 percent of the time I travel at what I consider a safe and reasonable speed for the conditions and my lack of accidents backs up that claim pretty damn well.  I don't always have a current inspection sticker (I go over my vehicles both 2 wheeled and 4 wheeled better than the inspection guy does).  But all that sure doesn't stop a cop half my age and driving experience from writing me a ticket because it's "The Law".

I don't blame them, it's their job and all and they're nice to have around when actually needed. I'd just prefer to pay more in taxes so their bosses wouldn't feel the need to send them out to jump folks for chicken shyt stuff.

Edit: BTW, I've gotten tickets I fully admit I deserved as well. Those I grudgingly pay because I know in my heart they were warranted. It's the little BS stuff that annoys me, and makes me nervous when smoky is behind me.

[Mookie]

Please quit with the factual posts.  It doesn't fit here.

That was more of an observance than a fact.  It fits.  

[Karmak]

Fucking cops...

Not so, I have never been pulled over while on the FJR....

[rollnhot]

I have been pulled over on the FJR, fuckin' cops. I hear smokin' the weed makes folks a little paranoid.

[Royal Tiger]

Cops always mess with FJR's.  It's one of the few bikes that can't run away.



 

[Testcase]

I've never been messed with by cops on the bike. Back when I was driving a lowered Mustang with limo-tinted windows, I did. Even had a cop ask to search my car after pulling me over for the tint. *shrug* Last week, a cop pulled up on my stranded in snow storm bike after seeing me dump it and ragged me out for being a safety hazard, but it was clearly more general frustration with everything going on around us than just me. In both cases, I wasn't cited (not even for the tint).

I pretty much completely disagree with the writer of the article. Of course, I'm not in Australia and all I know about driving there I learned from Mad Max movies, so maybe if I was being chased by leather-clad shotgun-wiedling crippled mental cops in hotrods on a daily basis, I'd feel differently.

[BIWOZ]

Boris does tend to provoke people with his writing; it's his stock in trade.

However, in some Australian states (and he lives in one of them), there is a definite anti-motorcyclists culture within the government and police. Indeed, it has been said to the editor of one of our more respected motorcycling journals, by a Federal politician who'd had a "couple of sherries", that "If we could find a way to crush all those f***ing things you ride, we'd have them off the roads in a week".

Motorcycle riders are targeted. For example, at the recent Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix at Phillip Island, reportedly (I wasn't there) every single motorcycle being ridden to and from the circuit was stopped by police for a full roadworthiness and registration check, and riders' licences also checked. Literally thousands of motorcycle were stopped and the delays were horrendous; I read up to four hours wasn't unusual. The same did not happen to motor vehicles.

One state forces motorcycle riders to pay an extra levy on their rego and CTP because they are "unsafe"; I think it's about $65 a year. The money is supposed to help improve safety; it doesn't. It is used in anti-motorcycle television propaganda campaigns, among other things.

Most states' road and traffic bureaucracies regard motorcycle riders as just two steps above drug dealers and one step above firearms owners.

Restrictions are for our "own good". Currently being "discussed" (discussed = legislation being written in secret) is mandatory "approved" safety clothing (jacket, trousers, gloves, boots and reflective vest!) ... helmets are already mandatory; forcing "returning" bike owners to undergo approved "retraining" (despite the fact they have a valid licence) OR cancelling your rider's licence if you don't have a bike registered in your name for XX years; mandatory unswitchable ABS; phasing-in of traction control; increasingly restrictive "endorsements" for MC licences (e.g. say for 250, then 500, then 1000, then >1000, separate offroad endorsement, pillion endorsement ... and so on).

We are not liked. I rarely do anything "wrong" on the bike (if anyone's around  ) so I don't stress too much about coppers.

But there is antipathy in Australia between riders and most police. It's a shame, because it needn't be like that.

(Disclaimer: Never been booked for ANY traffic offence in 44 years of driving/riding. I'm not a goody two-shoes; I just object to giving the government any more of my hard-earned!   Although I have had a parking fine ...)

[cbsnbiker]

Wow.

Is there an equivalent to the AMA in Australia?

[BIWOZ]

Wow.

Is there an equivalent to the AMA in Australia?

Nearest national body would be MRAA ... Motorcycle Riders Association of Australia; it has state affiliates. Trouble is, it's like firearms owners ... too many splinter groups, too much infighting, too much solidarity being frittered away. Meantime the legislators and bureaucrats do whatever the hell they like.

I ride AND own firearms ... I am the lowest of the low  

[BIWOZ]

Hmmm, was just involved in a conversation with a rider from the east coast. In that state (to remain nameless), if you have a solo motorcycle accident (e.g. oil on the road, gravel, cut off by someone resulting in a fall), the rider will still be charged with "Careless driving" and be required to face a court.

Oh ... nice!!  

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

Hmmm, was just involved in a conversation with a rider from the east coast. In that state (to remain nameless), if you have a solo motorcycle accident (e.g. oil on the road, gravel, cut off by someone resulting in a fall), the rider will still be charged with "Careless driving" and be required to face a court.

Oh ... nice!!  

Besides this coming from a rider from the right coast I'd like to see confirmation of this because I doubt it is at all true.

[TBone]

PSA:

The OP is an Australian, writing from Australia about Australian situations and policies.

If:

(1) you have not had a problem with the police here in the US or Canada, or
(2) you have had a problem with the police here in the US or Canada

Then:

It has nothing to do with the OP.


Thank you.

( and Australia has states too. )  

[PatM]

Boris does tend to provoke people with his writing; it's his stock in trade.

However, in some Australian states (and he lives in one of them), there is a definite anti-motorcyclists culture within the government and police. Indeed, it has been said to the editor of one of our more respected motorcycling journals, by a Federal politician who'd had a "couple of sherries", that "If we could find a way to crush all those f***ing things you ride, we'd have them off the roads in a week".

Motorcycle riders are targeted. For example, at the recent Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix at Phillip Island, reportedly (I wasn't there) every single motorcycle being ridden to and from the circuit was stopped by police for a full roadworthiness and registration check, and riders' licences also checked. Literally thousands of motorcycle were stopped and the delays were horrendous; I read up to four hours wasn't unusual. The same did not happen to motor vehicles.

One state forces motorcycle riders to pay an extra levy on their rego and CTP because they are "unsafe"; I think it's about $65 a year. The money is supposed to help improve safety; it doesn't. It is used in anti-motorcycle television propaganda campaigns, among other things.

Most states' road and traffic bureaucracies regard motorcycle riders as just two steps above drug dealers and one step above firearms owners.

Restrictions are for our "own good". Currently being "discussed" (discussed = legislation being written in secret) is mandatory "approved" safety clothing (jacket, trousers, gloves, boots and reflective vest!) ... helmets are already mandatory; forcing "returning" bike owners to undergo approved "retraining" (despite the fact they have a valid licence) OR cancelling your rider's licence if you don't have a bike registered in your name for XX years; mandatory unswitchable ABS; phasing-in of traction control; increasingly restrictive "endorsements" for MC licences (e.g. say for 250, then 500, then 1000, then >1000, separate offroad endorsement, pillion endorsement ... and so on).

We are not liked. I rarely do anything "wrong" on the bike (if anyone's around  ) so I don't stress too much about coppers.

But there is antipathy in Australia between riders and most police. It's a shame, because it needn't be like that.

(Disclaimer: Never been booked for ANY traffic offence in 44 years of driving/riding. I'm not a goody two-shoes; I just object to giving the government any more of my hard-earned!   Although I have had a parking fine ...)

Europe is going that way too. Not the targeting but the safety, ABS, clothing thing.

[wibornz]

Never been pulled over by a cop while riding.  I have had them turn on their overhead lights point at me and motion to me to slow down when doing a ton plus, but never pulled over.

[Papa Lazarou]

Europe is going that way too. Not the targeting but the safety, ABS, clothing thing.

It is a real worry.

[Hardware]

Cops always mess with FJR's.  It's one of the few bikes that can't run away.



 

Sock puppet.  Gotta' be...

[Royal Tiger]

Besides this coming from a rider from the right coast I'd like to see confirmation of this because I doubt it is at all true.

I have seen it in the US too, unfortunately.  As I said before in the other thread, I refuse for the most part to cite in just about all single vehicle collisions, as it seems like "piling it on" to me.

[Royal Tiger]

Sock puppet.  Gotta' be...

My apologies if you have one.

I was teasing County as I know him from when he was a regular on SBN.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

I have seen it in the US too, unfortunately.  As I said before in the other thread, I refuse for the most part to cite in just about all single vehicle collisions, as it seems like "piling it on" to me.

My comment was based on this:

"Hmmm, was just involved in a conversation with a rider from the east coast. In that state (to remain nameless), if you have a solo motorcycle accident (e.g. oil on the road, gravel, cut off by someone resulting in a fall), the rider will still be charged with "Careless driving" and be required to face a court."

I don't believe for a minute that any east coast state does this as a matter of routine.  Can a single officer or even agency do this?  Hope not but possible.  But it most certainly is not a big problem.

[Royal Tiger]

A good Trooper friend of mine (I work in a city) told me the Pennsylvania State Police are strongly encouraged to cite in ALL reportable crashes.

[ianbh]

My comment was based on this:

"Hmmm, was just involved in a conversation with a rider from the east coast. In that state (to remain nameless), if you have a solo motorcycle accident (e.g. oil on the road, gravel, cut off by someone resulting in a fall), the rider will still be charged with "Careless driving" and be required to face a court."

I don't believe for a minute that any east coast state does this as a matter of routine.  Can a single officer or even agency do this?  Hope not but possible.  But it most certainly is not a big problem.

Let's run this by you one more time.  You're in VA, he's in Australia.  Ian, Iowa

[spd2918]

A good Trooper friend of mine (I work in a city) told me the Pennsylvania State Police are strongly encouraged to cite in ALL reportable crashes.

.....when it is clear that there was a violation.

[Royal Tiger]

.....when it is clear that there was a violation.

There is almost ALWAYS a violation.  Careless fits for anytime you do not properly control your vehicle, be it 2 wheels or 4.  My own father got a ticket by PSP for failure to control his vehicle when his car slid on the Interstate in an oil slick and hit nothing but the center median.  No other parties involved.

[TBone]

Let's run this by you one more time.  You're in VA, he's in Australia.  Ian, Iowa

I've tried twice, nobody pays attention.  

Unless it's because of the ignores...  

[spd2918]

There is almost ALWAYS a violation.  Careless fits for anytime you do not properly control your vehicle, be it 2 wheels or 4.  My own father got a ticket by PSP for failure to control his vehicle when his car slid on the Interstate in an oil slick and hit nothing but the center median.  No other parties involved.

Sounds like he didn't have control.  

[Royal Tiger]

Sounds like he didn't have control.  

Which backs my point versus yours.  You can just about always find a violation, but my opinion is it's not necessary to cite in a single vehicle crash unless there is impairment (DUI).

[spd2918]

Which backs my point versus yours.  You can just about always find a violation, but my opinion is it's not necessary to cite in a single vehicle crash unless there is impairment (DUI).

He was lucky he hit a curb instead of a motorcyclist.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

Let's run this by you one more time.  You're in VA, he's in Australia.  Ian, Iowa

   I'm in VA. Australia.


   Yeah.  Guess I ASSUmed when I saw east coast and states.  My bad.  And no Dan, no ignores here except Ratfly.

[Royal Tiger]

He was lucky he hit a curb instead of a motorcyclist.

Yeah that is relevant to the conversation about citing in single vehicle crashes.  It's good he hit the median and not the Space Shuttle too.

My point is still unless there is some over riding factor, citing a bike (or car) that crashes without damaging anything else, or private property, seems over the top.  Having a policy (even if it's an "unwritten" one) that pressures or encourages officers to do that reeks of income generation to me.  That's all.

[Papa Lazarou]

  It's good he hit the median and not the Space Shuttle too.

Not the space shuttle!  

[Hardware]

Yeah that is relevant to the conversation about citing in single vehicle crashes.  It's good he hit the median and not the Space Shuttle too.

My point is still unless there is some over riding factor, citing a bike (or car) that crashes without damaging anything else, or private property, seems over the top.  Having a policy (even if it's an "unwritten" one) that pressures or encourages officers to do that reeks of income generation to me.  That's all.

Well, maybe people need to start paying attention and stop crashing with such frequency.  We've gotten out of the habit of referring to motor vehicle collisions and/or crashes as "accidents" because only a tiny (arguably negligible) percentage are not due to some from of driver error.  Over 30,000 people died on US roads in 2010.  

It's time for people to smarten the fuck up.

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

Yeah that is relevant to the conversation about citing in single vehicle crashes.  It's good he hit the median and not the Space Shuttle too.

My point is still unless there is some over riding factor, citing a bike (or car) that crashes without damaging anything else, or private property, seems over the top.  Having a policy (even if it's an "unwritten" one) that pressures or encourages officers to do that reeks of income generation to me.  That's all.

Come on RT.  Income generation?  From charging at single vehicle accidents?  You don't really believe this do you?  My former agency back in the 70's had this same policy and it was the feeling of the administration that if there is a crash (not accident) then someone did something wrong.  Not saying I agreed with that all the time but there is a lot of truth to this.  The problem with this though is it can be difficult to convict without witness testimony or an admission from the person at fault.  Luckily we moved away from this policy over time but it never had anything to do with income generation.  If an agency can make decent income over single vehicle crashes then I'd hate to see the stats there for crashes.  

[Royal Tiger]

Come on RT.  Income generation?  From charging at single vehicle accidents?  You don't really believe this do you?  My former agency back in the 70's had this same policy and it was the feeling of the administration that if there is a crash (not accident) then someone did something wrong.  Not saying I agreed with that all the time but there is a lot of truth to this.  The problem with this though is it can be difficult to convict without witness testimony or an admission from the person at fault.  Luckily we moved away from this policy over time but it never had anything to do with income generation.  If an agency can make decent income over single vehicle crashes then I'd hate to see the stats there for crashes.  

I can agree, but what purpose is served in citing a driver or rider in a single vehicle crash?  If you come across a motorcycle that low sided due to gravel in the roadway, the guy has already had a banged up bike, crashed gear, and probably needs a new helmet.  What does a ticket for careless driving do for him or his perception of the police?  That's why I said "reeks of income generation" as it is unnecessary.

[county]

Well, maybe people need to start paying attention and stop crashing with such frequency.  

Yeah, I support that....

[PatM]

I can agree, but what purpose is served in citing a driver or rider in a single vehicle crash?  If you come across a motorcycle that low sided due to gravel in the roadway, the guy has already had a banged up bike, crashed gear, and probably needs a new helmet.  What does a ticket for careless driving do for him or his perception of the police?  That's why I said "reeks of income generation" as it is unnecessary.

Like FKB says, I doubt if that would generate anything worthwhile. It may not be revenue generation but maybe preempting lawsuits? 

[Formerly Known as Bigfoot]

I can agree, but what purpose is served in citing a driver or rider in a single vehicle crash?  If you come across a motorcycle that low sided due to gravel in the roadway, the guy has already had a banged up bike, crashed gear, and probably needs a new helmet.  What does a ticket for careless driving do for him or his perception of the police?  That's why I said "reeks of income generation" as it is unnecessary.

I agree that LE does not need to cite in every case.  I think it's more dumbass policy makers instead of income generation.  

[tomek]

I`ve personalty started couple cop bashing threads but this one is extremely lame . OP was ridiculous .

As far as ticketing drivers in single vehicle accidents with property damage , I can compare it to punching someone who has already been knock down .

Friend , sort of ,  low sided , oil on the pavement , blah , blah , he was not going fast by any means . He is a good rider , ATGATT , etc .
 Bruised ego , scratched fairings , broken clip on . Bike not ridable but just barely . He calls for towing but while he waits cop shows up and gives him a ticket   .

He lives in Madison WI , it happened not far form his home although I`m not sure what agency gave him a citation .    

[spd2918]

He lives in Madison WI , it happened not far form his home although I`m not sure what agency gave him a citation .    

Prolly da State Patrol.




My ex-father-in-law owns and drives a flatbed semi hauling steel tubing.  He keeps his equipment in top shape and he is a careful driver.  He had an idiot in Michigan try to pass him on a slick road.  The idiot spun into his drive wheels and forced a jackknife.  The Michigan Trooper cited my father-in-law for not securing his load because the tubing shifted when he totaled his truck and trailer.  That was some bullshit there and I'd tell the trooper that to his face.  That's the shit that makes people prejudice against cops.  

I agree that LE does not need to cite in every case.  I think it's more dumbass policy makers instead of income generation.  

This, though I am not convinced they are strongly encouraged to deny themselves common sense.  The dumbass policy Bigfoot is talking 'bout is this:
Sergeants want to show their officers are doing more under their watch while captains want to impress their bosses.  When it happens it is BS and leads to unnecessary tickets.  I get yelled at about once a month to write more, but it is not about income.  We don't see a dime; in fact it costs my department money for court.  I won't write one more ticket than I think I should and here's why:

Nice people that work, pay their taxes, and try to do the right thing end up getting tickets that are not necessary (i.e. speeding cites in an area where there are no accidents).  They generally pay the fine because they are good people and don't want / can't to miss work to fight it.

Dipshits that don't have licenses, drive drunk often, don't have insurance, and will flee after hitting your wife in her Toyota will never pay the fines on the tickets you write them.  They are the same pukes that beat their girlfriends and don't pay for their babies.

So if I were to go out and hammer traffic (to make my boss think I am not lazy) then nice people will get screwed with fines and the dipshits will continue to not have any consequence.

[Royal Tiger]

Again people I never said that was the purpose, I have said "reeks" of income generation, which means that the people that don't deserve to be cited feel target for the purpose of making money over safety.  It's all a part of the negative public image that gets perpetuated by this kind of nonsense, and what spd said in his opening paragraph above this post.  There are times when you shouldn't cite.  That was my point.  

[sisurider]

I guess I can't speak for the cops in anyone else's region, but in my not-so-humble experience in Northern MN and the Upper Peninsula of MI, the cops have been pretty reasonable. They don't bat an eye at 10-15 over in low traffic areas, and once when I was parked at a local river to chase some trout I had a state trooper pull over just to talk about fishing for a few minutes. I figure if they see fit to give me a ticket, I probably earned it.

This excludes college/university public safety officers though, who in my experience have always been overly eager to pull everyone over. Of course, if I had to keep watch over a bunch of college students I'd probably not be the friendliest guy either.

[ZenMoto]

I figured this would be a multi-pager when I saw the thread title!  lol

I love people who say one person's perspective is BS because it's not like that *where they live* with no experience whatsoever of that person's region.  For instance, here in SoCal the tickets are retarded ...on every level.  I've been cited twice in the past 3 years during my commute to/from work.  Both times in my truck, both times driving no faster than the traffic around me.  ...just a random "road tax" pull over; it's just how it works around here, and it is complete BS!  I don't speed excessively (I say that, because around here, traffic generally moves, when it moves, at about 75mph in a 65 zone).  So I don't speed *excessively* just move with traffic, get to work, go home, etc..

Strangely, I almost never get pulled over on the bike, because the cops who patrol the canyons aren't out there to write the statistically desired number of citations per review period (it's not a quota, but you'd better not be far off the average).  ...the cops in the canyons are looking for ass-hats, and that's who they pull over and cite. ...I don't ride / drive like a squid, and when I do haul ass, it's in an out of the way area, where I'm no danger to anyone and highly unlikely to see many other vehicles, let alone cops.

So I've had those 2 tickets ...in my truck.  Both were, miraculously, for 81 in a 65.  In both cases, as confirmed by my GPS, I was doing between 72 - 76 mph, and there were faster vehicles to my left.  The cost of these tickets, all said and done, NOT counting traffic school, was in the range of $300 each!  ...add another $25 for traffic school, and you get the idea.  ...RETARDED!!!

Conversely, riding from NY to LA via the northern states, I got pulled over just outside of Rapid City, SD, and I was doing probably 75-80 in a 65.  ...short chat with the Statey, he let me go with a verbal warning.  FFWD to the next day, middle of Wyoming, Hwy 16 between Ten Sleep and Worland I got tagged doing 80ish coming over the crest of a big rolling hill; that earned me a ticket.  ...$75 (NOT RETARDED).  I earned the ticket, and the cost was reasonable to the offense.  ...I mean, let's be fair, if you've ever ridden across SD or WY you know just how freakin' empty it is.  ...but I paid that ticket with a smile.

This is what kills the reputation for the police in some areas, random enforcement (which I think is kinda' the OP's point, though poorly stated), and ridiculous fees (in some areas).  Growing up in Illinois was about the same as SD and WY; a basic moving violation cost about $75, and I never got pulled over in Illinois where I wasn't actually breaking the law ...in an obvious way!  lol  

Here in SoCal, it's just the luck of the draw!  

...and to be fair, I know several cops in LA (really all over, many of my old Marine Corps buddies are now police officers somewhere).  Some are dicks, most are cool, ...but you remember the dicks (and you're more likely to meet them).  As someone who has "protected and served" in the Marines it does get under my skin any time I meet someone in any uniform who behaves in an unprofessional manner, or who is clearly abusing their authority; luckily those kinds are generally the exception!

[Hardware]

...I love people who say one person's perspective is BS because it's not like that *where they live* with no experience whatsoever of that person's region...

It's just as asinine for someone to say that because a cop treated them badly in Buttfuck, Alabama, or Broken Bone, Manitoba it's clear that all cops everywhere are corrupt and that all traffic stops are simply revenue collection exercises.

[ZenMoto]

It's just as asinine for someone to say that because a cop treated them badly in Buttfuck, Alabama, or Broken Bone, Manitoba it's clear that all cops everywhere are corrupt and that all traffic stops are simply revenue collection exercises.

That's basically what I'm saying.  ...and that argument goes both ways!