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Topic: Set up fees....what a load of *&^%  (Read 5091 times)

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xsrider
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« on: March 11, 2012, 12:26:58 AM »

My 2003 Kawasaki ZR-7S is getting old, so I'm looking to buy a new bike.  A local dealer was advertising a 2011 Suzuki GSX1250fa for $9899.  I went over ready to buy.  But the dealer wanted a $960 set up and handling fee.  I didn't even bother to counter his offer, instead I walked out.  It's bait and switch advertising as far as I'm concerned.  I will not pay a high set up fee.  Heck, the bike on the sales floor was already set up.   Am I just being too picky?

I'll keep looking.  
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 12:37:47 AM by xsrider » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 12:51:32 AM »

I agree with you on the setup fee.  Esp if you aren't paying cash in full, they'll be making it up in finance anyway.  Find the bike you like, and the KBB price.  Say you'll take it today at that price out the door.  Maybe haggle for them to throw in some free service (oil change, tire mounting, etc?).  See how hungry they are....
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 01:01:04 AM »

Don't worry about the set up fees. You should be able to buy any new bike (except the exotics) in the SF Bay Area for MSRP out the door or very close. Every dealer will mention set-up and freight. There is some cost but its only about 10% of what you were quoted. Buying a bike is a negotiation. Always make a counter offer.
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 01:05:16 AM »

You're in the bay area.  Shop around and you'll be able to get a 1250fa otd for under $10k.  If you are buying cash, let them know that is what you are willing to spend that day.  When I was recently shopping for my next new bike the sales guys on the phone/floor varied by as much as $1k otd.  After talking to the owners/managers the difference was within $200 at the same shops.  Money talks when you are talking to the guy who pays the bills.
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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2012, 01:10:54 AM »

Yup.  Set up fees are BS fees.

I would NEVER pay it.  The bike comes out of a box.  They wipe it down, clean it up, properly inflate the tires, make sure the battery is charged, and it's ready to go.  Dealers who charge set up fees are price gougers.

I have never paid for any set up fees.  I had this one dealer try to talk me into it and explain to me why they want to charge me a whopping 1,200 for set up fees.  I walked out.  A day later they called me up and they gave up their set up fee BS.  
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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2012, 01:48:07 AM »

I hate the "document fee".    Thumbsdown   Car dealerships try to fleece you with this one.

I mean, the secretary is sitting in the office all day anyhow, and she gets paid the same whether or not she moves my papers from pile "A" to pile "B" or not.

I see that as being the dealership's problem as to how they will pay her. It's not like they called her in from home especially to fill out my documents.   Twofinger
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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2012, 03:09:50 AM »

The setup fees are paid by the idiot sheep of people.

You know you need the ZX-10R anyway.

I reviewed the 2005, and it has much gotten better in sequential years.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/First-rides-tests/2010/May/may2810-Guest-road-test-Shervin-reviews-the-Kawasaki-ZX-10R-/
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2012, 04:52:12 AM »

Give some thought to finding a late model used bike in like new condition. I read a article on the new Honda VFR. If you buy it loaded it runs $21K. After you drive it home, it is worth 11K I can't justify that kind of loss.
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 11:15:17 AM »

Take all the stress out of it.

Know what you are willing to pay out the door and tell them, "I'm willing to buy this bike today for $X out the door, yes or no?"

If they say no, don't get mad, just say thanks and leave.

I know this second part is going to raise some hackles around here, but unless the bike is primary transportation, this should be a cash deal.  Do not finance toys, save until you have the cash.
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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2012, 01:24:50 PM »

Not too picky at all.  If more people walked out when they do this, maybe the dealers would think twice before attempting to add fees to a negotiated price...
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 03:47:47 PM »

All what matters is the out of the door price . I`ve  always used that as a base for the negotiation . I was never interested what they put on the stupid bill , final price is what matters .

Poor accountants had to do the bill of sale backwards . LOL .  
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« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 07:37:11 PM »


Take all the stress out of it.

Know what you are willing to pay out the door and tell them, "I'm willing to buy this bike today for $X out the door, yes or no?"

If they say no, don't get mad, just say thanks and leave.

I know this second part is going to raise some hackles around here, but unless the bike is primary transportation, this should be a cash deal.  Do not finance toys, save until you have the cash.



+1 on all counts (including the cash part).  As far as negotiating with dealers, when they try to add a fee you can always counter.  Nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't have to be emotional.  It's all business.  But if you're one who doesn't like negotiations (and there are many people who do not), there is nothing wrong with walking out if you feel the salesperson isn't going to at least entertain your reasonable offer.  And after you've purchased the bike from another dealer, you owe it to yourself to ride to the first place, park your brand new bike in their lot and let them see the deal they missed just because they wanted to stick you with a bloated setup fee.    Razz
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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 09:01:45 PM »

What pisses me off when dealers charge set up fees is that it is nothing more than a scam.  

The MSRP is an agreed upon price "suggested" by the manufacturer to give them a profit margin that is sustainable for the dealership business.  If a dealership feels that margin is not good enough, then they should not be selling bikes.  Period.

Do NOT ever pay for set up fees.  The moment a dealership tries to justify this charge to you, shut them down.  
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« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2012, 09:07:19 PM »


What pisses me off when dealers charge set up fees is that it is nothing more than a scam.  

The MSRP is an agreed upon price "suggested" by the manufacturer to give them a profit margin that is sustainable for the dealership business.  If a dealership feels that margin is not good enough, then they should not be selling bikes.  Period.

Do NOT ever pay for set up fees.  The moment a dealership tries to justify this charge to you, shut them down.  


Agreed upon with who? Do you think motorcycle dealerships have any input on MSRP?
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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2012, 10:13:21 PM »

What are you trying to say?  MSRP is NOT enough?

Dealers also get hold back.  So on top of the maybe, $500 (depends on bike) or more margin built into the MSRP, plus the hold back, dealers should get more?  

If dealers had any say on price, they would say get the highest price possible.  That is what those set up fees are for.  It's adding more money on top of the MSRP.  So yes, many dealers have spoken very clearly.  To me that is dishonesty and it's what creates the distrust between buyers and dealers.
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« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2012, 10:24:14 PM »

Although I'm not defending outrageous set up fees, I know every new  bike I've purchased from my Triumph dealer has never had the problems others on Triumph forums allude to.  In the case of my  05 Sprint the off-road tune was put in with the stock can as the mechanic knew the factory tune was too lean as supplied by Triumph.  I've seen my bikes come out of the crate and the front wheels were not attached, bags and hardware for same needed some assembly, TPS checked and reset, throttle cables adjusted...

17-20% gross profit doesn't leave much net.

A guy on Triumphrat.net was bitchin about a $600 first service on his new Speed Triple and compared it to the fact that the first oil change on his new Audi RS8 was free.....  right.
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2012, 12:38:11 AM »


What are you trying to say?  MSRP is NOT enough?

Dealers also get hold back.  So on top of the maybe, $500 (depends on bike) or more margin built into the MSRP, plus the hold back, dealers should get more?  

If dealers had any say on price, they would say get the highest price possible.  That is what those set up fees are for.  It's adding more money on top of the MSRP.  So yes, many dealers have spoken very clearly.  To me that is dishonesty and it's what creates the distrust between buyers and dealers.


Quit projecting. I didn't say or imply any of that.

I'm just trying to find out what you mean by "agreed upon" and who you think is involved in agreeing upon the figure represented by MSRP.
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2012, 12:53:31 AM »

Tell the dealer you want to negotiate an out the door price.  However they want to justify that price, tax, license, freight, setup, whatever, you don't pay a penny more than the price you and the dealer agree on.  Generally this means you'll be paying right at MSRP out the door unless you manage to swing a special deal somehow.  
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2012, 12:54:08 AM »


All what matters is the out of the door price . I`ve  always used that as a base for the negotiation . I was never interested what they put on the stupid bill , final price is what matters .

Poor accountants had to do the bill of sale backwards . LOL .  


This.

They tried to explain to me when I bought my Ninja why the bill of sale read like it did. I told them I knew why, I just didn't care. The OTD price worked for me and that's all I cared about.

If you have a trade though suggesting some juggling to them may help you and not hurt them. For instance, the more you get for your trade the less tax you pay on the purchase. That saves you $ and costs them nothing.
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xsrider
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2012, 01:25:34 AM »

This has all been interesting reading for me.  I haven't bought a new motorcycle since 1984.  I've bought used bikes ever since.  I am one of those guys that doesn't like to hassle with dealers.  I'm OK dealing with guys on craigslist.  I'm still on the fence regarding the GSX1250 I mentioned in my OP.  I'm now thinking of getting a pre-owned BMW.  (Aren't fancy bikes like BMW's and Guzzi's pre-owned, rather than used like the old Kawasaki I own.)
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