Re: Motus Pricing - starting at $31k

[Rincewind]

Good luck to them, but that's a heck of a lot of money for a sport-touring bike that will see a lot of miles.  I thought they had said it would be priced reasonably - I guess it's reasonably priced if you compare it to a EBR bike or a Bimota.  

[bomber]

^ yessiree -- another indication as to why there are not more startup motorcycle manufacturers . . . .if you want to grow your money quickly, charging a "reasonable" price for a bike (in this case, I'd call somewhere between 12 and 18K reasonable) isn't gonna do it, so you put your money elsewhere.

Charging 31 large will, if your sales plans works, do the same thing, but I can't see them selling enough at that price point to keep the lights on for long.

I hope I'm wrong, as competition really DOES improve things . . . . .

[Rincewind]

With their big nationwide tours, as well as the drawn-out development, I was expecting that they would have gotten more than eight dealers to sign up.  

[R Doug]

That's exactly the discussion we had on The Pace last week. James and I were both thinking $22k - $25k (with options) would be the sweet spot, if still a little high.I'd have tried really hard to get one in a year or two at that price. At $30k and up, it's priced completely out of my want/willing-to-work-for range by a huge margin.

I wish them the best, though; I want to see an American bike company building something other than cruisers do well.  

I 100% agree and would have HIGHLY considered this bike in that range.  

$31k is waaaaayyyyyy too much money for a bike.  I could buy a Norge and a Griso and would still have money left over for a dirt bike.

You tell me, what would make for a better garage?  Those three bikes or one Motus?

[Orson]

I read somewhere that the new Horex will be sold for 23,000 euros.

[X1Glider]

I'm due a $1000 refund now.  I'm out.  This is THE bike I would love to own.  Ninja 1000 and FXDX would be gone.  I'd have gone to $20k + options, but no more.  Still compared to an EBR, this is a fantastic deal.  Hell, there are even more dealers already.

[X1Glider]

^ yessiree -- another indication as to why there are not more startup motorcycle manufacturers . . . .if you want to grow your money quickly, charging a "reasonable" price for a bike (in this case, I'd call somewhere between 12 and 18K reasonable) isn't gonna do it, so you put your money elsewhere.

Fischer had to potential to succeed.  Their bike was akin to a CRT in the consumer world.  Buy an already engineered and proven SV drivetrain and build a chassis for it.  Prices were reasonable too even with options maxed out.

I think the part of their plan that is problematic is that they are trying to earn enough profit off each bike they build this first year so that the bills can be paid down quicker.  Now, depending on their financial backing and the faith they have in Motus, I would have thought it would be wiser to build the bike for a much more reasonable price, have minimal profit or even break even.  They could build a bigger fan base this way, potentially being able to increase the number they build the next year, therefore increasing their buying power/gaining bulk discounts and slowly increasing their profits through higher build numbers.  Or lowering the price even more, gaining more customers in the process.

I started buying Buells in the early 90s.  They weren't cheap and they weren't necessarily very good.  But with each year, they built more and the price came down, and so on and so on...

There's some expensive items on there and I'm sure Ohlins TTX, OZ wheels and Brembo Monoblocks added $10k in retail price.

I hope their first year works out for them.  I really do.  Espeially for parts and service.  And if they are still around 5 years from now (bugs worked out and improvements made) and the bike being sold for no more than a comparable premium Euro model, I'll be interested again.

[X1Glider]

I'm really confused by all the comparisons to the Buell on this bike.  

Lemme help you.  It's another American manufacturer building a highly specialized bike that starts at $40k but has absolutely no dealer network and is in the same situation.... starting from scratch, trying to succeed with a dream.

[Dan K]

Wow.  I hate to say it, but if they don't drop the price, or offer a cheaper model without the fancy bits (Ohlins, Brembo, etc.), these guys won't be at it for much longer...they clearly had big investment money to be in 'development' for so long, and if they were able to wait this long to get to market, they should have no problem lowering the price which would delay paying down debt, but would most definitely increase revenues...

How much is the BMW k1600?  If the Motus costs more than that bike, they're toast for sure.

Hope I'm wrong.  Would love to see them make it.

-Dan

[veefer800canuck]

All those high end suspension bits don't grow on trees. I knew it would be priced as a boutique bike.

I don't think the economy is enough to sustain growth of those models at that price point, even though I understand they are wonderful motorcycles and well finished.

You're looking at a different buyer for an ST rig. Confederate sells very expensive butt jewellery to people who hardly ride them and keep them in their houses, as art, and occasionally take them out for a spin. ST riders ride all year, all weather, all surfaces. Think a very filthy MultiStrada, or V-Strom and you're there. Those people tend to see the bike as a tool and one they are going to buy, wear out, and replace. It's more about the journey and the road, the people, places and things along the way. A lot of ST riders also camp while riding and rough it a bit. Those people are not going to be wowed by a 35k price tag for something they are going to get very wet and very dirty and mile the hell out of it, and park at the KOA for the night.

In my humble opinion of course.  

[veefer800canuck]

How much is the BMW k1600?  If the Motus costs more than that bike, they're toast for sure.
-Dan

$20.900 for the GT and $23,200 for the GTL.

The MultiStrada "Pike's Peak" edition is 22 grand and comes with Brembos and Ohlins.
Panniers and topbox and heated grips, GPS, etc etc for the Ducati aint gonna run ya another 10-13k that's for sure!

[Dan K]

$20.900 for the GT and $23,200 for the GTL.

Motus is not going to make it without some changes...really hope I'm wrong. For $10k less I can get proven bike with proven manufacturer with just as many fancy bits and pieces...can add another bike or two with the savings.  Too high.  Too short sighted.  Oh well.

_Dan

[jpaul]

I am a bit disappointed in the price, but not completely surprised.  I thought they would be doing good to bring it to market in the $25-30K range initially. I get the feeling that they're being a bit selective in choosing dealers, which could end up working for or against them. It's better, IMO, to have fewer dealers who are really able and willing to support the product, than to end up stuck with dealers who give the product a bad reputation because their interest in the customer ends when the check clears.

They plan on selling crated engines in addition to complete motorcycles; this could prove to be a key factor in their long term success. The engine would be a natural for application in some of the smaller auto racing classes. Not a lot of volume, but maybe enough to help amortize the manufacturing equipment.

[bomber]

Motus is not going to make it without some changes...really hope I'm wrong. For $10k less I can get proven bike with proven manufacturer with just as many fancy bits and pieces...can add another bike or two with the savings.  Too high.  Too short sighted.  Oh well.

_Dan

without enough dough cached to sustain operations for a couple of years, they GOTTA charge that much . . . witness the last few iterrations of Indian (pre-Polaris), and Henderson.

This is one of the reasons  why no new manufacturer has succeeded without deep pockets behind them . . . .

[Dan K]

without enough dough cached to sustain operations for a couple of years, they GOTTA charge that much . . . witness the last few iterrations of Indian (pre-Polaris), and Henderson.

This is one of the reasons  why no new manufacturer has succeeded without deep pockets behind them . . . .

They sure took their time to get the thing out.  Engine was done like, what, 2 years ago?  If they're running out of capital, shouldn't have taken their time.  Need to sell higher volume and get higher numbers of bikes out there as opposed to niche of $31k+ bikes.

REALLY want them to make it, really want to buy one and will if I win the lottery - but it's just too high a price.  Hey, anything's possible, but I just don't see it happening.

- Dan

[bomber]

They sure took their time to get the thing out.  Engine was done like, what, 2 years ago?  If they're running out of capital, shouldn't have taken their time.  Need to sell higher volume and get higher numbers of bikes out there as opposed to niche of $31k+ bikes.

EZ to say, tougher to do -- ground up design, fix the problems, beat on it to create bugs, fix them . . . . it all takes time, man -- creating stuff is not like creating software . . . . .

I'm betting this was ALWAYS gonna be a niche bike, but they were hoping more like HD pricing, not two-BMWs pricing ;-}

[Dan K]

EZ to say, tougher to do -- ground up design, fix the problems, beat on it to create bugs, fix them . . . . it all takes time, man -- creating stuff is not like creating software . . . . .

I'm betting this was ALWAYS gonna be a niche bike, but they were hoping more like HD pricing, not two-BMWs pricing ;-}

Not saying it's easy - just saying it doesn't look like they are taking a long term look at this bike.   Selling at a lower margin and slowing down return on investment would in my mind do more for the success of this bike than it's American made moniker and it's actual capabilities as a better than most bike.

Bikes are really good these days, and you can't expect to get away with high prices at high volumes like HD without having already built the mystique that seems to grab bikers from all walks of life.

Who knows.  Maybe they have the cash to weather the storm and figured this is where they WANT to be.  I'm speculating.  I was just really hoping this would be closer to affordable, as now, and I expect the same for many others, it won't be in my garage despite the fact that I was willing to figure out how to buy one one day.  Now it's out of reach.  

Significantly narrowed their customer base despite their wide fan base.  Bad idea in my book.

EVERYTHING I've said other than I won't be buying one is simplyopinion and speculation and I hope I'm wrong.

- Dan

[bomber]

Not saying it's easy - just saying it doesn't look like they are taking a long term look at this bike.   Selling at a lower margin and slowing down return on investment would in my mind do more for the success of this bike than it's American made moniker and it's actual capabilities as a better than most bike.

Dan I agree with your post -- I will simply add that I'm willing to bet that the money came from outside the company, and the owners of the money are much more concerned with recouping their investment and making a profit soon that they are making a motorcycle company.

Further, I'll bet a frosty beverage that the designers of the bike spent a lot of time trying to get cost OUT of it to allow a lower price point . . . .

Like you, I've got no dog in this hunt -- but I wish em well.

[atadaskew]

Let's cut to the chase.

The Motus is not a pretty bike.
And it needs to be gorgeous to sell at $35K.

Seriously just look at it.  if you did not know it was a Motus, nor who the mfg was, and was asked to guess the price..  Especially with bits like standard Givi luggage?
I'd say, not knowing the mfg, that I was looking at a $15K bike.  Tops.

[falcofred]

Let's cut to the chase.

The Motus is not a pretty bike.
And it needs to be gorgeous to sell at $35K.

+1, no one needs a bike, everyone wants a bike. You have to build bikes people want. For $35K, you have to build bikes people lust after. At that price you have to build bikes that the people who can afford it will buy it just to show it off. This bike is nothing to show off.

They have to charge a premiium for that hybrid rear sprocket with a lifetime warranty   Come on, hybrid sprocket, Ok, alumium carrier with a set of hardened steel teeth..........The chain is listed as good for 20,000 miles, I can believe that, but if you replace the chain and dont' replace the sprockets at 20,000 miles your dooming your new chain to a shorter life, that is just how it is.

Of course Honda is building bikes they feel people need, but no one wants and they're still in business  

[atadaskew]

The chain is listed as good for 20,000 miles

I've got over 25K miles on the original chain and sprockets on my Duc.

So this is not a big deal.

[Meemuh]

Yeah - disappointed, but not surprised...
Of course for me, 20K is the same as 36K.  Unobtainable.

[Max Wedge]

At $25k I would seriously look at one, even first model year stuff because I want them to succeed. But that was my max; $31-36k is just too much for me. I wish them luck.

[Snowbird]

I call toast.

[Orson]

The Motus is not a pretty bike.
And it needs to be gorgeous to sell at $35K.

put down the man purse.
 

it ain't about purdy...it's about torque

all ye sinners should prostrate yourselves at the altar of torque  

[Squidbuzz]

http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/LATEST+NEWS/Motus-Motorcycles-reveals-pricing-specs-initial-de/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/764885?contextCategoryId=48447

Man o Man...  $30K for the entry level bike.  I don't know about you, but they have priced themselves out of my market.  Too bad.

[UFO]

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,70588.0.html

[Justin]

put down the man purse.
 

it ain't about purdy...it's about torque

all ye sinners should prostrate yourselves at the altar of torque  

So what are the torque specs on their engines? If it's all about torque, why do they only list HP?

That is awful steep pricing for any bike, never mind a new manufacture that is unproven. Of course, from a business perspective it's always easier to lower a price for a product than raise it. And, it takes just as much effort to sell a $30k product as it does to sell a $30 product.

[Orson]

So what are the torque specs on their engines? If it's all about torque, why do they only list HP?

obviously, they are aware that publishing prodigious torque numbers could frighten the pipe & slippers crowd.

they have to proceed carefully.

[Motozeke]

Finally... a touring bike that makes me feel like my Multistrada 1200 is a real bargain!

Thanks, Motus!

[Kraz]

http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/LATEST+NEWS/Motus-Motorcycles-reveals-pricing-specs-initial-de/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/764885?contextCategoryId=48447

Man o Man...  $30K for the entry level bike.  I don't know about you, but they have priced themselves out of my market.  Too bad.

Too bad for me, but to be fair it happens to be the number everyone was throwing around.

Also - "entry level" for them has Ohlins forks, Sargent seat, Givi's, and some other stuff.  I'm not sayin' it's a bang for your buck, but I would still love to rock that thing.


185hp for the MST-R...  

[atadaskew]

put down the man purse.
 

it ain't about purdy...it's about torque

all ye sinners should prostrate yourselves at the altar of torque  

yer soundin' like a candidate for a CVO Harley...

[Kraz]

Well - I think they were planning selling a lot of these things anyway.  I still want one, and since I don't own a car, a 31k bike seems reasonable.  

I actually really like the way it looks.  I'm sure the torque will be there as well.

I do see that they dropped the direct injection.  Interesting...

[Squareman357]

put down the man purse.
 

it ain't about purdy...it's about torque

all ye sinners should prostrate yourselves at the altar of torque  

I do...113 Ft. Lbs of the stuff...    No one ever claimed my bike was purdy LOL!  I wish them luck as well, but at that price point I could buy myself a K13GT and still have enough left over for a new ZX-14 to play with as well.

[Flyer]

...$30K for the entry level bike.

See, this is why I always say "First I look at the purse (or saddle bags)".  

Other than Leno and Cruise, I don't know anyone else who can help them grow their company...

[stealth1]

The Motus is destined to be the two wheeled Delorean.
Buy one and put it in storage and 20 years from now it will bring a good return on your investment.

[Croak]

They have to charge a premiium for that hybrid rear sprocket with a lifetime warranty   C

That's in the ad copy just to appease the Cult of Shaft, which oddly enough, are the people most likely to have the money to buy a Motus, yet the people least likely to do so.  

[atadaskew]

Also - "entry level" for them has Ohlins forks, Sargent seat, Givi's, and some other stuff.

Sargent seat - $400 for any bike
Givis - just like on a $11K Suzuki Bandit

Yeah, it just does not seem 'special'.  Sure it has supposedly a nice motor, but now that the new ZX14 makes 200 rwhp and a metric butt load of torque, what is special about this motor?  Apart from being extremely ugly.

Get the new Zx14.  Put on the exact freakin' same Givi bags that the Motus uses.  Put on a Sargent seat.  Send the forks out to Traxxion Dynamics.  I bet you've got a bike that would do everything but more that the Motus does for about $20,000 less.
I also think the ZX14 looks better.

Well, at least the Motus has a shaft drive.  Oh wait...

[atadaskew]

How is the Motus better than the new ZX14?
ZX 14 has much more motor - dynoed at 200 rwhp.
You can get the same Sargent seat and Givi bags.
You can get the suspension re-done by numerous shops (Traxxion Dynamics etc)
The ZX14 looks better.
Both have chain drives.

One would be $20,000 less than the other.

[Orson]

inline four torque is served in delicate tea cups whereas V four torque is brandished in man-sized buckets.

[Playinthestreet]

The front end of that  bike makes a busa look good.

[Hardware]

They didn't even have Givi rebadge the hard cases.

The bike's uglier than a smacked pudding.

For 30K, the brunette better be included...

[PatM]

So what are the torque specs on their engines? If it's all about torque, why do they only list HP?

Ask and you shall get 
Minimum 161bhp @ 7800rpm; 165Nm (122lb-ft) @4500rpm; 8000rpm redline http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html

[PatM]

See, this is why I always say "First I look at the purse (or saddle bags)".  

Other than Leno and Cruise, I don't know anyone else who can help them grow their company...

Sargent seat - $400 for any bike
Givis - just like on a $11K Suzuki Bandit

Yeah, it just does not seem 'special'.  Sure it has supposedly a nice motor, but now that the new ZX14 makes 200 rwhp and a metric butt load of torque, what is special about this motor?  Apart from being extremely ugly.

Get the new Zx14.  Put on the exact freakin' same Givi bags that the Motus uses.  Put on a Sargent seat.  Send the forks out to Traxxion Dynamics.  I bet you've got a bike that would do everything but more that the Motus does for about $20,000 less.
I also think the ZX14 looks better.

Well, at least the Motus has a shaft drive.  Oh wait...

Get a C14 and you have the same power level, "factory" bags, shaft drive, and an electric windshield as a bonus for much, much less $$.
What you don't get is the exclusivity of ownership and the cute girl in the pic.  

[caddydaddy]

I'll keep my Sprint ST with "only" 130 HP, bags and all,  for a few more years!  

[McRider]

A lot of people pay that kind of money (or at least they used to) for a custom chopper, and at least this looks like a bike you could actually ride somewhere.  However, the kind of poeple who spend the money on custom choppers are probably not the kind of people who buy a bike to ride somewhere.  

[PatM]

A lot of people pay that kind of money (or at least they used to) for a custom chopper, and at least this looks like a bike you could actually ride somewhere.  However, the kind of poeple who spend the money on custom choppers are probably not the kind of people who buy a bike to ride somewhere.  

 

[Justin]

The front end of that  bike makes a busa look good.

Hey now!

Ask and you shall get  
Minimum 161bhp @ 7800rpm; 165Nm (122lb-ft) @4500rpm; 8000rpm redline http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html

OK, so it has 40 less HP and 10ish more Ft/lbs of torque at that crank stock than the Busa. The new zx-14 has like 60-70 more HP and more torque. I could go out and put Ohlins suspension and progressive shock etc on my current bike for a few grand, and the top of the line motus will still cost 3 times as much; for less performance.  Of course there is the lifetime rear sprocket to consider.

I'm sure they are going to sell these - just not to me. They are priced well out of my range. But there are many people out there that have the bucks, and will spend more for the novelty of it.

[Zixxerpilot]

My old GSXR 1100 was highly modded, and was putting out 120ft-lbs and 185hp atbth wheel. I can tell you, its nuts! As powerful as the Hayabusa is, it just felt sluggish in comparison.

That was on a 500lb SS bike, though.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Tapatalk

[atadaskew]

A lot of people pay that kind of money (or at least they used to) for a custom chopper

But the reason they did that was because the choppers stuck out and yelled 'hey look at me!'

The Motus has zero chance of doing that.  And people drop big coin for expensive bikes for the 'hey look at me!' factor.

Imagine if Ferrari made a sports car that looked like a Toyota Camry.  But charged Ferrari money for it.  Would it sell?  No.
But this is even more extreme because everyone has heard of Ferrari and still it would not sell if they did this.  Badge or not.
The Motus has zero brand recognition, and looks homely.  But is priced like it should look stunning.

This turkey is done.

[Orson]

This turkey is done.

Guzzi bashing by proxy reported to moderators.

[Kraz]

The Motus has zero brand recognition, and looks homely.  But is priced like it should look stunning.

This turkey is done.

Lotsa bikes out there with little to no brand recognition - to some, that's a good thing.  Guzzi is overpriced is you're only going off dyno numbers as well, and the look thing is subjective.

The way the bike looks with that motor sticking out like that is worth a lot in my book.

Saying you can pimp out a ZX14 with suspension and bags isn't much of an argument to me.  Most people who drop a lot of coin on a bike don't want to throw away a new set of mediocre shocks, go through the time and hassle of having it done, etc - they just want a bike with premium components to begin with.  One stop shopping is an easy sell (maybe not at this price); imagine how many touring bikes BMW would sell if they only showed a stipped down bike, but then tried to tell you that it's OK, b/c they can order you a bunch of farkles that the warranty won't cover.

It does seem a little stupid to me that heated grips are extra at that price point.


And I really like turkey too.

[Dewey]

inline four torque is served in delicate tea cups whereas V four torque is brandished in man-sized buckets.

That load of shit never gets old.  
Yeah, fours don't make any torque, you really gotta spin a Hayabuas or FJ1200 to get any power, they're soooo peaky.  (that was sarcasm btw)

[Kyle401]

Good to see that there's a dealer within 30 miles of me!  I might have to drop by to take a look.  If they'll give $15K on trade for my Uly, I might just buy one.  

I really hope that these guys make it.  It took a huge effort to get this far.

[Kraz]

No dealer on SoCal - or did I miss it?  Must be an emissions thing...

[ConPilot1]

I really hope that these guys make it.  It took a huge effort to get this far.

I hope so too. It'll be nice to see another American mfr. on the scene, and something different than the usual "American" howl amoungst the loyals, something more along the lines of a real bike.  

 However, the price point is definitely out of the question for this acehole. I could put three or four nice bikes on a floor for that entry ticket price.

It is a really nice looking package however.

[evilted]

Just noticed that European Motorsports/Riders' Hill in Dahlonega is one of Motus' eight US dealers.  They (and Aprilia and Moto Guzzi) have been pretty good about making demo bikes available -- I wonder/hope that will be the case with Motus as well?

And Dahlonega seems an unlikely location for Motus given the pricing, but I've heard that this dealership sells a great many bikes to buyers outside the US.  They claim to be the #2 and #3 US dealers for Moto Guzzi and Aprilia in 2011 respectively (I assume that's based on sales volume).

[Rincewind]

Pics from the Daytona press event for the expensive pony

@ https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.342222272480497.73763.135990566437003&type=1

[Roadscum]

Just noticed that European Motorsports/Riders' Hill in Dahlonega is one of Motus' eight US dealers.  They (and Aprilia and Moto Guzzi) have been pretty good about making demo bikes available -- I wonder/hope that will be the case with Motus as well?

And Dahlonega seems an unlikely location for Motus given the pricing, but I've heard that this dealership sells a great many bikes to buyers outside the US.  They claim to be the #2 and #3 US dealers for Moto Guzzi and Aprilia in 2011 respectively (I assume that's based on sales volume).

Dahlonega is a weekend retreat for the Atlanta folks, some with money, lot's of money! I'm sure Anthoney's got things under control at Ridershill, he's done a great job so far, the man's got great business skills.

Regards, Paul

[Dan K]

Those pictures only increase my frustration at the pricing.  Beautiful bike.  Too bad that the majority of those who desire one and who EXPECTED to be able to buy one (based on the so-called affordable price point Motus told us to expect) will not be able to.  Just from looking at it and checking out the stats, I want one.  Just too damn much cash for me.  Like someone said, I could buy 4-5 different bikes for the price of admission, let alone the R version.  Oh well.

- Dan

[Mookie]

$31k is just a marketing exercise to test pricing elasticity  

I think it's probably a great bike, aside from the headers being destroyed in a parking lot tip over.  According to their marketers, the engine is under-stressed by design meaning big improvements in HP/TQ are theoretically possible.  If they survive for a couple years we ought to be able to find them closer to the $20k price range which would be reasonable for a good, unique all-rounder that doesn't make you want to vomit just looking at it, like a Busa or ZX14.  

[Justin]

$31k is just a marketing exercise to test pricing elasticity  

+1

Like I said in an earlier post - it is MUCH easier to lower the price on something than it is to raise it. Business 101. I'm gonna have to wait till that happens though to get mine  

The looks are starting to grow on me, much like a guzzi with bigger jugs - and bigger is better right?

[Max Wedge]

What was the final weight? How does it compare to the 'ST.n Sport-Tourrer' we spec'd out?

[X1Glider]

The looks are starting to grow on me, much like a guzzi with bigger jugs - and bigger is better right?

Some people say "if it's more than a handful, it's too much."  I think the Motus' jugs are about right tho.

[R Doug]

I want this one.  

[JReazor]

I want this one.  

+1. I've always had a thing for red heads.

[Croak]

Rouge on the end of jugs used to be fashionable.  Though sometimes messy.

I'd love to own that MST-R in black, but if I were spending that much coin, I'd make them redo the hanger mounts so the straps didn't obscure the Akra logo...or go with smaller logos.  

And I really wish those pipes were thicker diameter just for aesthetics.  

[ConPilot1]

Gotta +1 about the drop comment destroying those headers. I could definitely see that being a very, very expensive drop, and it happens. I've done it myself, and I've seen others drop bikes.

The engine config is interesting, but they really should protect those pipes more.

And there's too much tubage going on in the framework. I don't like spider-webs of frame tubage from a design standpoint. I'm sure it's lightweight and functional but ugly as sin. Hide that shit with some nice plastic panels.  

Other than that and the price tag, I'ts quite lovely.  

The red heads are killer though, that should be a design trademark that stays. Those red heads would go great with a white or grey bike too.
Whoever thought to make those valve covers fire engine red should be given a bonus. That's a nice touch.

[coho]

It's like a half nekkid SuperNorge.  
With four big jugs.






But $30K is too many monies.  

[Baz]

31 k?  

[R Doug]

After four pages to date, I believe we can summarize the following thus far:

1)  We all agree the starting price is too rich for us.

2)  The price may come down over time.

3)  Some of us like the looks while others do not (I for one love the looks of it).

4)  The bike doesn't seem like it will crash well.


Any other STN talking points on this bike?

[R Doug]

It's like a half nekkid SuperNorge.  
With four big jugs.

Anyone else believe the Motus looks a little like the Duc ST3/4?

[atadaskew]

Anyone else believe the Motus looks a little like the Duc ST3/4?

Nah, the bags on the, much much cheaper, Duc are unique to that bike and properly blended in.  Not some GIVIS that are also used by the Suzuki Bandit...

If anything, the closest to the Motus lookwise is the Guzzi Norge, with similar cylinder shape.  But that bike also has a problem of being much cheaper, comes with a single sided shaft drive, has luggage uniquely designed for the bike, has standard heated grips and e-shield, anti lock brakes...

Really I don't see anything unique that the Motus brings to the table.  Want a V4?  I seriously find the Honda VFR12 more attractive than this, I'm betting it has the same powah, you too can get GIVI bags for it, it has a shaft drive, ABS brakes and you can now get them for $10,000 new!!!

If you think you are getting performance with the Motus, the new 200 at the rear wheel ZX14 puts an end to that...  Pretty sure you can get an Ohlins shock and GIVI bags for that too.

[atadaskew]

Some ducatis also use Givi OEM.

GIVI may make them, but in a shape unique for Ducati.  That actually matches the styling of the bike.

[Cablebandit]

Motus = too pricey for the masses, too cheap to be exclusive

[Justin]

Motus = too pricey for the masses, too cheap to be exclusive

Solution = raise the price to make it exclusive, and change the name to Motussi to make it have more character  

[atadaskew]

Motus = too pricey for the masses, too bland looking to be exclusive

FTFY
 

[Croak]

We wouldn't even be having this value discussion if it was made in Bologna instead of Birmingham, and the word Motus had a vowel on the end.

[X1Glider]

Spare parts?  Need an oil fiter or ignition coil?  OEM parts can be had at any GM dealer...or AutoZone for aftermarket.  I know for sure those 2 items are GM parts.  There may be more GM items in there.

[veefer800canuck]

Not many people consider spare parts as a purchasing decision for a BRAND NEW vehicle.

"Gee, when I break down, it will be real easy to fix!"

[X1Glider]

I work on my own so I consider the "total cost of ownership" when I make a purchase.  Lots of bikes are easy to bring home.  Keeping them running is when you realize you may get screwed.  Beemer parts are ridiculous.  So are parts for Triumph.  I've even dealt with some pretty pricey Honda parts.

Cheapest bike to own IMO is a HD.  Huge aftermarket and parts are cheap if you want to simply keep it going, not necessarily upgrade to something nicer.

[atadaskew]

I can get Guzzi filters at any auto store (they cross reference with a Bosch part).
I can get my Ducati filters from my local where they stock them.
Other bits too.

I can get anything else from the internet and have it in my hands within a few days thanks to the miracle of package delivery companies.

Seeing that there are only a handful of Motus dealers, and it is a new product, I'm pretty sure outside GM cross-referenced engine parts you'd be waiting a loooong time to get anything else.  Unless stuff like the mirrors are also used by other bikes.

[Orson]

If small chopper companies can stay in business, I don't see why Motus can't stay in business.

With the economy on an upswing, they may have got their timing just right.

I remember reading something about companies that got their start during economically depressing times and flourished.

[evilted]

+1

Motus' target market is no longer the vast majority of people reading this thread.  I'm sure they're as aware as anyone that they've priced themselves into a very small market.  They're interested in the 1500 people who bought Desmosedici RRs for $65-70k, maybe and the people who help Harley sell thousands of CVO bikes at $30k and up every year, and those chopper buyers you mentioned.  Plus choppers are so over, why not a sport tourer?

Motus will likely do just fine as a niche player until the motorcycle market improves offering an opening to go downmarket and start competing with brands like BMW & Ducati based on value -- at least I'm assuming that's their long term plan since that's where the real money is.

And I kinda' doubt the MST & MST-R are going to get any less expensive to buy unless Motus finds itself in dire straits and has a fire sale to pay off creditors.  Cutting the price significantly would dilute the brand's perceived exclusivity, and majorly piss off the very people whose money and social status Motus needed to make a go of things.  It would be much smarter for them to introduce new models at a lower price point in a year or two or three with significant styling and/or component material changes such that even if the newer machines are technically better than their predecessors (i.e., equipped with ABS, traction control, electronic suspension, GDI, etc.) and more suitable for direct competition with the likes of BMW or Ducati, and finding a clever and non-obvious way to canonize to the original models as classics (maybe brand iconography or merchandizing?).

If small chopper companies can stay in business, I don't see why Motus can't stay in business.

With the economy on an upswing, they may have got their timing just right.

I remember reading something about companies that got their start during economically depressing times and flourished.

[ConPilot1]

I work on my own so I consider the "total cost of ownership" when I make a purchase.  Lots of bikes are easy to bring home.  Keeping them running is when you realize you may get screwed.  Beemer parts are ridiculous.  So are parts for Triumph.  I've even dealt with some pretty pricey Honda parts.

Cheapest bike to own IMO is a HD.  Huge aftermarket and parts are cheap if you want to simply keep it going, not necessarily upgrade to something nicer.

BS. Cheapest bike to own is a Kaw. They don't break down. Oil, filters, brake pads, coolant, routine shit. That's it.

[Justin]

BS. Cheapest bike to own is a Kaw. They don't break down. Oil, filters, brake pads, coolant, routine shit. That's it.

Same with my current Suzuki. Same with my previous Honda(s).

[falcofred]

If small chopper companies can stay in business, I don't see why Motus can't stay in business.

Um, they aren't staying in business
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/04/05/big-dog-motorcycles-halts-production/

Big Dog Motorcycles is halting production and owner Sheldon Coleman will start a new business making parts for Big Dog owners and dealers. This story began circulating yesterday, but kept changing every time it appeared. The Wichita Business Journal, talked to Rick Fairless of Stokers Dallas who confirmed he had a conversation with Coleman who indicated the bank had shut down production for good.

[atadaskew]

If small chopper companies can stay in business, I don't see why Motus can't stay in business.

Most of them are long gone.
And the only way they were selling them was by offering 120 month financing.
I kid you not.

[JReazor]

Most of them are long gone.
And the only way they were selling them was by offering 120 month financing.
I kid you not.

Not only that but most of them were maybe bending a cradle frame, hammering out a tank and fenders and then bolting in an off-the-shelf S&S. I'm gonna guess that they don't have the same kind of investment in engineering and development that Motus does.

[evilted]

Yeah, no argument there.  I don't see $30k as being affordable myself, so I have to believe they ditched Plan A and went to Plan B as a result of whatever factors prompted them to revise their sales plans -- cost of components, small # of interested dealerships, or just revised projections regarding what the market would do in 2012.

As we discussed in Episode 106 of The Pace, the bigger issue is that Motus did a questionable job of managing expectations.

By saying "... affordable to a wide range of riders..." immediately prior to the Daytona public release of the information, then pricing the bike above $30,000 at the entry level... well, "mixed messages" is an understatement.  

I'm sure the bike needs to cost that (in early adoption) for investment recovery. But no matter how you slice it, 4 years after a MAJOR economic crash and seemingly permanent downward adjustment, and mired in a sea of far, far more accessibly priced competition, $31k is NOT "... affordable to a wide range of riders...". Not by any reasonable measure.

Sadly.

[atadaskew]

By saying "... affordable to a wide range of riders..."  

Investment bankers, doctors, athletes, rock stars, a-list actors..

That there IS a wide range of riders.

[Orson]

How many years wuz Big Dog in business?

I thought it wuz around 20 years.

They couldn't make it past the 2008 depression.

Maybe Motus can surf on the economic upswing and make it more than 20 years?

[R Doug]

I very much hope they make it.  I really want to see (hear) one in person.

I have to ask...

What makes this bike cost $10,000 more than say a Multistrada 1200 S Touring?  Here's a sport-touring bike that has a wonderful motor, electronically controllable Ohlins suspension, Brembo brakes, hard luggage, and more dealers.  

Based on the price the Multi, which is priced ~ $5,000 more than most ST bikes, I would be willing to pay a similar price for the Motus.  If I'm going to spend $30 big, I would rather have this Duc and a second bike (naked sport bike, high end 250-300 enduro bike, etc...).

In summary, my questions is, what warrants the $10,000 premium on the Motus?  I refuse the accept an answer of, "because it's different."  Or some attempt to compare this bike to the equivalent of a custom cruiser bike from Big Dog.  It's not that.  It's a sport-touring bike that has nothing more to offer than a the Duc Multi or a BMW K1300s (two higher end / priced ST bikes).  I want to know what makes up the dollar difference.

[veefer800canuck]

Um, they aren't staying in business
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/04/05/big-dog-motorcycles-halts-production/

Big Dog Motorcycles is halting production and owner Sheldon Coleman will start a new business making parts for Big Dog owners and dealers. This story began circulating yesterday, but kept changing every time it appeared. The Wichita Business Journal, talked to Rick Fairless of Stokers Dallas who confirmed he had a conversation with Coleman who indicated the bank had shut down production for good.

Funny, their website is up and running a year later like nothing had happened.  

[Orson]

I want to know what makes up the dollar difference.

I'm thinkin' start up costs would be a large chunk for Motus as compared to Ducati, who already has their R&D Department in place.

[R Doug]

I can certainly appreciate the economies of scale which larger, more established companies have in terms of R&D.  IMHO, a rational person isn't going to buy this bike by paying a premium for Motus' R&D.  Therefore, their only market at this point is the "more money than brains" client (not meaning to be blunt).  

I hope they reach those people and sell the hell out of them.  I would like to see a second hand bike which I could afford or the next gen version which the R&D to recoup per bike is less.

  

[Playinthestreet]

For me it simply comes down to I'm not spending $30k on a motorcycle regardless of nameplate/torque/horsepower/bags........whatever.

[shil]

It's just marketing.

Wait 'til it costs what you're willing to pay.

[R Doug]

It's just marketing.

Wait 'til it costs what you're willing to pay.

I don't doubt that may be the strategy.  The key issue with the strategy of price skimming is it only works when the product has an inelastic demand curve.  I highly believe ST bikes have a very elastic demand curve.  This isn't a necessity like gasoline or a perceived necessity like the next greatest home gaming system (e.g. Next Gen Sony Playstation).  

People buy high-end  or in-demand electronics all the time knowing the price is going to decrease over time.  People don't like buying motorcycles knowing the price (MSRP not resell) is going to decrease over time.  

[shil]

I imagine that Motus is looking for the guys who "need it now" right now.

[R Doug]

Shil, I can see you on one.  

You are getting sleepy.  You ned this bike Shil, you need this bike.  

[shil]

It's got two too many cylinders,and they're lined up the wrong way.  

[Rattlehead]

Never underestimate the cost of developing something as complex as a motorcycle COMPLETELY from scratch. Frankly, I’m surprised they got the price in the 30’s.  


Personally, if money weren’t an issue, I’d buy this over ANY Ducati, BMW, Guzzi or whatever.
-I like the fact that it was designed, and built here in the States. There is a serious shortage of real motorcycle mfg’s here. (Harley doesn’t count in my book). And I’d love to be able to support someone who’s willing to build a useable motorcycle (not a fashion accessory) here in the good ol’ US of A.
-I applaud those who are willing to risk everything to chase a dream  
-Their idea of a perfect bike is VERY much inline with my own. I like the thought of a lightweight ST bike with a killer engine.   600+lb tanks don’t appeal to me no matter how comfortable or capable they may be.
-I LOVE the longitudinally mounted V4 and the noise it makes, best I can tell from the vids, is pure audible ecstasy.   Add in that it makes a butt-load of torque, WAY more than enough HP (especially the “R”) is virtually maintenance free (pushrods) and is unlike anything else out there and it’s just about perfect in my book.
-The look, to me, is just right, especially in black with those red valve covers.  

If I won the lotto tomorrow they would be a MST-R in my garage the next day. Unfortunately, I won’t pay $31g+ for a car (that I can use in the snow and take my family places in) much less a motorcycle that I can only use, by myself, for 7-8mo out of the year.  
I sincerely hope they take off and I wish them the very best of luck.
 

[R Doug]

I agree with you 100%.

My rants are mostly derived from the fact I am not able to convince myself to buy it.  I want it, yes.  But not for that price.  If I won the lotto and had more money than I needed, I'd catch a flight to my closest dealer and put money down on one sight unseen.  

(black with red valve covers, of course)  

But, since my decision is based on my current reality, I can't justify anything more than a Multi Touring S and that's still a stretch.  

[atadaskew]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, except... why doesn't Harley count as a "real American motorcycle manufacturer"...?  

I don't like [insert brand of motorcycle here] therefore they are not real motorcycles.

[Orson]

IMHO, a rational person isn't going to buy this bike by paying a premium for Motus' R&D.  Therefore, their only market at this point is the "more money than brains" client (not meaning to be blunt).  

Some potential buyers may see themselves as a sort of benevolent venture capitalists...albeit with no return for their dollar, other than the desire to see a nascent concern succeed  

[Rattlehead]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, except... why doesn't Harley count as a "real American motorcycle manufacturer"...?  

I don't like their bikes (for the most part), I don't agree with their buiness practices, I find their "American Legend" opinion of themselves to be insulting (do a quick search on the history of Harley, it's not as glamorous as they would have you believe) and I despise their "lifestyle" marketing with every fiber of my being. To sum it up, I have no respect for Harley as a manufacturer.  

You are free to hold whatever opinion of them you chose to and I will think none the less of you for it. My personal opinion though I have no reservations about expressing.

It was not my intent to turn this into a Harley bashing thread. It's hard to mention "American motorcycle mfg" though without them coming up as they are pretty much the only game in town (Victory is still too small to make in dent in the grand scheme of things).

My point was, I think Motus may have built a bike that really could be something special. A good long test ride could confirm or rebuke this.

[Orson]

Well, I see in the latest Motorcyclist magazine that the new upstart motorcycle company Metisse is marketing  a $27,000 bike that is a basic parallel twin, so I think that puts some perspective on the price of the Motus.

[atadaskew]

Well, I see in the latest Motorcyclist magazine that the new upstart motorcycle company Metisse is marketing  a $27,000 bike that is a basic parallel twin, so I think that puts some perspective on the price of the Motus.

Good grief that thing is ugly.

[Orson]

Good grief that thing is ugly.

Rickman brothers bashing reported to moderators.

 

 

supposed to be based on the old Rickman Metisse Triumph scramblers although I think they missed the mark.

Here's an original:

[Kraz]

"Missed the mark" might be a good thing - that's even uglier than the 27 g Metisse.  

Motus sounds like a steal next to that.

[Kyle401]

"Since announcing the anticipated arrival of Motus we have had a tremendous response from customers interested in being some of the first to own this new American Motorcycle.  All bike orders will be filled in the order they are received.  If you would like to be added to our list of Future Motus Owners contact us today!"

From the local dealer's Motus page.  Still waiting to see one in person.

[ConPilot1]

I agree with Rattleheads' sentiments on this page x1000.

And again, I'd LOVE to see this take off and become successful. Same here, I'd be on a plane with a certified check if I hit the lotto.

I think the bike is beautiful and it's great to see an American made motorcycle in a platform that moreso fits in with the desires of this crowd other than the typical big heavy chrome plated V-twin pig with some
stupid ass mucho-macho name related to trains, billiard tables, or tools.  

[Dan K]

Love everything about it but the price.  Too high.  Period. Market is limited to the money no object crowd, and that ain't me.

Isn't the issue that they claimed it would be affordable to get us all interested in it? I felt like the rug was pulled out from under me when they announced the price, justified or not.

- Dan

[HipGnosis]

Motus is beginning certification  and are aiming at delivering dealers their first MSTs this summer.
And.. they'll have  demo rides at Motus dealers and several other events!
Plus,  they've released the price of the 'crate' engine;  $10,220

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=80c5f8f2088bf98bbbb1cd00b&id=a4ba604a2c&e=2546b78ba3

[Squareman357]

Motus is beginning certification  and are aiming at delivering dealers their first MSTs this summer.
And.. they'll have  demo rides at Motus dealers and several other events!
Plus,  they've released the price of the 'crate' engine;  $10,220

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=80c5f8f2088bf98bbbb1cd00b&id=a4ba604a2c&e=2546b78ba3

Seriously??  $10K just for the MOTOR???   I wish them all the luck in the world, the US can certainly use more local brands, but damn if they shouldn't have gotten some larger pockets to back them and get that price down.  For just a hair more than the motor I can buy a sport-tourer fully loaded from any number of makes.  Sheesh.

[Kraz]

A couple of those could make for an awesome 3.3L V8.    Anyone got an old Miata layin' around?  

[Zixxerpilot]

Seriously??  $10K just for the MOTOR???    I wish them all the luck in the world, the US can certainly use more local brands, but damn if they shouldn't have gotten some larger pockets to back them and get that price down.  For just a hair more than the motor I can buy a sport-tourer fully loaded from any number of makes.  Sheesh.

Price an S&S crate engine once. That's cheap! And S&S isn't nearly as good.


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