Bikes involved in a flood.

[white26golf]

Ok, so here is the current situation. Me and my wife dropped our bikes off for tires and servicing.  That day the dealership flooded due to nature's wrath.  My wife's Ninja 500 is ok, it was on a lift getting the tires changed when the flooding happened. The Versys however was under water just below the top of the gas tank for about 12-24 hours. The store called me today, to tell me nothing was wrong with the V, they had drained, and flushed all fluids (read: changed the oil). I called my insurance company, and they are going to send an adjuster out to take a look at it, as everything is ok with the bike now, but who knows what kind of long term damage was done that isn't obvious at the moment. My insurance also says that due to the flood being of natural causes, that the stores insurance most likely will not cover anything, so it will be all on my insurance if any "damage" is found. I went by the store today, and took a look at the bike, and nothing is physically wrong with it and it was running. I could see that water was inside the blinker housings, due the the murky looking insides. Right now, I don't know what to think, I am a little worried that the overall reliability of the bike is now diminished and I should take it if the insurance guys say it is fine, and trade it in on something else as soon as possible. What do you guys think on the validity that there is nothing wrong? And what would be some of your actions if you were in this situation? On a side note, when they flushed the engine oil, they replaced it with regular oil, however, I have been running synthetic. I know in a car you shouldn't switch back to dyno oil after going synthetic, and I had a heated discussion with the stores mechanic with 20 yrs experience about it, what are your takes on the switching of oil?

[phaze5]

why do they tell you on the bottle not to go back then? take it back to the dealer and let him read it for himself.

what about the air filter take it apart and look for mud scum whatever show that to the adjuster, how long will your motor run sucking in junk, i'd change my oil a couple times if it was me. so maybe cheap dino oil is good to flush the system.

its never their fault is it god dam dealers,

[white26golf]

Actually, I don't know why they even flushed the oil, it's the insurance company's money, not theirs.  I told the owner that I wish they didn't do anything to it until the adjuster came to take a look at it.  I am sure however, that they checked/ cleaned the air filter as well.  

[West]

Honestly if you are not super attached to the bike, I would push your insurance company to total it if possible.  I know with cars that if any water whatsoever gets inside of the cabin, then it is totaled.  At least that is what the insurance companies did at a concert that had about 1200 cars parked in a overflow flood pond area for a river that flooded during the concert.  

Right now may look like there is no damage, but the water has probably already taken its toll on things like the bearings and wiring which you will see down the road.  My fiance's car was in that concert flood and about a year her radio lights turn off when she turns her headlights on which they never even used to dim in the past and her AC compressor pulley bearing went bad cuz it sat in the water. (It sounded like the car was supercharged, but was still slow)

[wibornz]

I say not that big of a deal with it being a bike.  It is made to get wet.  Hell ride that dam thing in a rain storm for 10 hours.  It will still run fine.  The inside of a car is not ..... not meant to get wet.  

Change the oil and air filter and ride.  I am sure you can go on Youtube and find bikes dam near with water to the top of the tank and still running through the water.

ride it ride it.

[white26golf]

I say not that big of a deal with it being a bike.  It is made to get wet.  Hell ride that dam thing in a rain storm for 10 hours.  It will still run fine.  The inside of a car is not ..... not meant to get wet.  

Change the oil and air filter and ride.  I am sure you can go on Youtube and find bikes dam near with water to the top of the tank and still running through the water.

ride it ride it.

I haven't made a decision yet, but you are telling me that if your Versys sat under water up to the top of the tank for 12-24 hrs, you would be fine with changing the air filter, and oil and riding it?  I am not talking about just riding through a stream for 1-2 mins.

[et]

Personally I would not trust the bike; or the dealer.
Did they repack all bearings; such as wheel, shock linkage, steering, etc ..;  that were submerged during that time ??? I doubt it.

As much as motorcycles can be ridden in the rain with no ill effects.
That is totally different than being submerged for hours.
I bet you will eventually have electrical and bearings problems down the road.

[Kneescrubber]

Switching back and forth between synth and dino is not an issue. Even in cars. Not sure where you got that idea.  

...My insurance also says that due to the flood being of natural causes, that the stores insurance most likely will not cover anything...

Why are you even talking to your insurance? The dealership's insurance is who you should be talking to.

Honestly if you are not super attached to the bike, I would push your insurance company to total it if possible.

I agree with West. It needs to be totaled and you need to move on. Water and copper don't mix very well.

[CLAY]

Honestly if you are not super attached to the bike, I would push your insurance company to total it if possible.  I know with cars that if any water whatsoever gets inside of the cabin, then it is totaled.  At least that is what the insurance companies did at a concert that had about 1200 cars parked in a overflow flood pond area for a river that flooded during the concert.  

You from Michigan?  That happened just east of me a ways.  Ionia.  

For the OP- I guess I'd clean it up and ride it.  I would think once you start riding any water in the bearings would rapidly be gone.  

[West]

You from Michigan?  That happened just east of me a ways.  Ionia.

Yeppers, the bad ol' B93 birthday bash.  Haven't been back to that concert since and boycotted the station because they flat-out lied.  Now the concert is almost literally in my backyard only about a mile away and I still won't go.

[falconati]

Wow, what a bum rap.  Sorry, I know this is probably really frustrating for you.

I would be talking with the dealer's insurance, and I would push them to total the motorcycle.

[white26golf]

Well I should know what the appraiser has to say either today or tomorrow.  I think regardless of that outcome a new bike is in the works.  Either they total it, or I trade it in and make it someone elses possible problem.

[Cablebandit]

The warehouse that all our MSF bikes were stored was flooded last year.  All the bikes that were under water were totaled and sent to auction.

FYI.

[OmegaSix]

Three thoughts:

1.   Is the Versys engine/tranny assembly the standard affair?   I.E.  wet clutch?      If so, you shouldn't be using synth oil at all.   Don't trust me - look it up yourself.

2.   I agree with those who believe the bike is fine.   Do double check the air filter - but the rest of the bike should be good to go.   Do a couple of preventative oil changes just to be sure, but there is no reason for the bearings at the wheels to have been hurt.  

3.   If you are going to sell it and "make it somebody else's problem"...    Shit, son, give me a call - I'm not afraid of it - sounds like I might get a really nice bike for a really nice price.

(Seriously - is there anything really wrong with it?   Electrical failures, electronic issues, appearance, or maybe even mildew smells? - If the answer is no - time to go for a nice, long ride, and stop being fussy)

[kyzrex]

Wow, what a bum rap.  Sorry, I know this is probably really frustrating for you.

I would be talking with the dealer's insurance, and I would push them to total the motorcycle.

+1

Would not trust the bike anymore.  Electronics, submerged in water for any period of time, should not be trusted.  Bikes are made waterproof from rain by covering up much of the wiring and contols, but soaking them for hours is a different story.  Ditto with the bearings and brake assemblies.  Would also have a big problem trusting the inside of the engine, they may have changed the oil, but if they do not split the cases and inspect the inside, now do they know they got all the residue from the dirty water out?  Cooling passages are probably clogged with mud....did they clean those out?

Talk to a lawyer before you accept anything.

[falconati]

But that

Well I should know what the appraiser has to say either today or tomorrow.  I think regardless of that outcome a new bike is in the works.  Either they total it, or I trade it in and make it someone elses possible problem.

I really wouldn't go that second route - it's really unfair unless you disclose it during the sale.  If they total it, then the bike can go to one of those auctions for salvage titles (where maybe somebody okay with the condition of the bike can get a great deal, then everybody wins).  Regardless of what your insurer says, I would ask them to hold off on taking action until you can deal with the dealership's insurance.  They should be responsible for this damage, not you.  It might take longer to get worked out (so that might be a consideration for you), but ultimately that's the right party to pay for the damage.  If you have your insurer pay you out, you may end up paying higher premiums in the future (whether you realize it or not).

[HipGnosis]

I can see both sides of this.  
But I don't see how it's not the dealers responsibility because it's "an act of nature".  The bike was in their 'care', so it's their responsibility.
There is no way the dealer got rid of all the water/damage.  Bearings and electrical connections ARE going to corrode on that bike WAY faster now.
Since they're not making you 'whole', it is your insurance's responsibility.   I've heard multiple times that any bike getting submerged is automatic total.
Since the dealer says it's "fine", have him/them buy it from you for book value (but don't hold your breath waiting for them to count out the cash).

[Papa Lazarou]

a drowned bike is a total write off. it's the dealer's problem-get them to buy it off you.

[FJRmgm]

Personally I would not trust the bike; or the dealer.
Did they repack all bearings; such as wheel, shock linkage, steering, etc ..;  that were submerged during that time ??? I doubt it.

As much as motorcycles can be ridden in the rain with no ill effects.
That is totally different than being submerged for hours.
I bet you will eventually have electrical and bearings problems down the road.

+1 to all of the above. No telling why kind of gremlins will crawl out of this unit later.
This bike should belong to the insurance company now.

[Cablebandit]

Three thoughts:

1.   Is the Versys engine/tranny assembly the standard affair?   I.E.  wet clutch?      If so, you shouldn't be using synth oil at all.   Don't trust me - look it up yourself.

..........

I couldn't get past item one without  

[white26golf]

I couldn't get past item one without  

I did look it up prior to using, but don't take my word for it, here is what Amsoil, and Mobil 1 engineers have to say......unless you know more than them?

AMSOIL:

"Many people have the perception that since synthetics are more slippery than petroleum oils (which simple don't reduce friction as well), that wet clutch packs in either their automotive automatic transmission or motorcycle transmission will slip when using "super slippery synthetics". AMSOIL Synthetic Oils are no more "slippery" than petroleum oil. AMSOIL Synthetic Oils simply have a more uniform molecular structure which reduces frictional resistance better than the irregular shape and size molecular structure of a petroleum oil.

Look at it this way. Wet sandpaper removes paint as well as dry sandpaper does. The slipperiness of the water does not impede the sandpaper's ability to function. The same applies to the "slipperiness" of synthetic lubes in wet clutches.

If used dry, the sandpaper is soon filled with paint and no longer works- it slips across the surface without grasping the surface. If kept clean and free of paint, it continues to work. The lubricating/cleaning solution used can be water, soap, oil or any other liquid. The liquid's slipperiness does not affect the performance of the sandpaper.

It is simply not an issue. However, just as rinsing the sandpaper keeps it cleaner longer so it functions better longer, so the AMSOIL Synthetic Oils keeps wet clutch plates cleaner longer so they function better.

AMSOIL Synthetic Oils will prevent deposit buildup on clutch plates, therefore keeping the face clean and able to do its job in preventing slippage.

And, since synthetics are superior cooling agents to conventional petroleum lubes, using synthetics will help wet clutches last longer, too.

Petroleum oils have low resistance to heat and allow varnish and glaze to form on clutch plates, which eventually leads to slippage and increased heat generation and eventually failure of the clutch pack.

Also, AMSOIL motorcycle oils are specifically formulated without any friction modifiers for compatibility with wet clutch packs. AMSOIL ATF lubricants are also designed with specific coefficient of friction values to meet the requirements of each and every specification that it not only meets, but far exceeds.

Now you know the facts. The next time your buddy mentions using AMSOIL Synthetic Oils and Wet Clutches as a potential issue, you can explain to him exactly why it is simply not an issue."

MOBIL 1:

   
Question:
Using Mobil 1 Synthetic Motorcycle Oils in Bikes with Wet Clutches
Can your Mobil synthetic be used in a motorcycle engine with a wet clutch? My oil service intervals are scheduled at 6000 miles in the manual, but I have been changing it at 3000 miles with a conventional oil.
-- Ed Balas, Irwin, PA
Answer:
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 motorcycle oils provide superb protection for the engine, transmission and wet clutch primaries, even under the most grueling racing conditions. These products have been formulated especially for motorcycles.

[et]

Almost sounds like some of you are confusing "synthetic" with "energy" conserving.
Wet clutches can take synthetic with no problems.
It's the "energy conserving" part of motor oils designed for cars that should not be used with motorcycle wet clutches.

[white26golf]

Almost sounds like some of you are confusing "synthetic" with "energy" conserving.
Wet clutches can take synthetic with no problems.
It's the "energy conserving" part of motor oils designed for cars that should not be used with motorcycle wet clutches.

+1  You need to ensure you are not using car synthetic which is almost always "energy conserving".  Race, or Motorcycle synthetic is what should be used.

[PatM]

This thread went from flooded bike to totalled to an oil thread within two pages.
How about the tires? 

[et]

This thread went from flooded bike to totalled to an oil thread within two pages.
How about the tires? 

Keeping 'em filled with some water has the same effect as those Dyna Beads.  

[Cablebandit]

I prefer a couple ounces of alcohol.  It gets cold in these parts.

Blue washer fluid works well.

[Mr.Black]

Bingo.

Synth and dino oil are fundamentally identical in what they do. Jeezuz, why is this even a discussion?  

Because we are not all as f*cking brilliant as you.

[white26golf]

My insurance company agent told me that a vehicle in a flood is 99% assuredly a total-out without ever seeing shop time.

Let's hope I am not the 1%! The tires are fine, thanks for asking. The discussion went that way due to my original post being a two question post.

[Kneescrubber]

Because we are not all as f*cking brilliant as you.

Speak for yourself.  

[white26golf]

 

3.   If you are going to sell it and "make it somebody else's problem"...    Shit, son, give me a call - I'm not afraid of it - sounds like I might get a really nice bike for a really nice price.

It's yours for $4000 come and get it!

Ad reads:  2008 Kawasaki Versys for Sale.  Been in flood up to top of gas tank for up to 24hrs.  Bike runs like new, you won't have any issues......or so some people tell me!

[scottzilla]

If you had Nitrogen in the tires the thing would have floated away.



Seriously, Call the ins company.  I suspect years of odd electrical gremlins may be coming your way.

[Cablebandit]

  I suspect years of odd electrical gremlins may be coming your way.

You could just buy a Guzzi if you wanted that.

[Bounce]

If I were looking at a used [vehicle], a "flooder" would see me turn on my heel and walk away. Far too many potential long-term issues (just electrical corrosion alone for example) for me to want to bother. Modern bikes also have EFI, ABS, and other computer modules that don't like being soaked for a long time.

Bummer as your in for a fight... either with your adjuster now or with your bike later.

[Papa Lazarou]

Sitting submerged will fuck your bike. Bottom line. The amount of teardown to PROPERLY clean, dry, re-lube, inspect and reassemble - at regular shop rates - will end up costing twice what the insurance would pay out. Sitting submerged is VASTLY different from riding in even the absolute worst storm. You're talking about replacing every bearing. Bearing seals are *not* waterproof; they are dust and dirt resistant. You're talking about replacing the entire wiring harness. Water sitting in there (and believe me, they will NEVER get it all out) will - over time - harden all the insulation, vaporize and corrode wires and connections, etc. You're talking about - properly - completely tearing down the engine and using a water displacement compound inside the whole thing. You're talking about fully tearing down the frame and ensuring no water got inside of it. You're talking about inspecting every square millimeter of painted items to ensure there's no rust spots.

For the record, my former career was as an ASE-certified auto mechanic with inspection, performance and reconstruction specialties. I have some experience here, is my point.

Honestly, and no offense, I wouldn't buy your bike for anything more than $500 at this point.

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but that bike is reasonably trashed and your insurance company needs to agree to that. More importantly, your DEALER'S insurance company should also see it that way.

This

[atadaskew]

 My insurance also says that due to the flood being of natural causes, that the stores insurance most likely will not cover anything, so it will be all on my insurance if any "damage" is found.

That makes no sense.  Why would your insurance cover it but not the store's?
This is the responsibility of the store.
No matter what they claim, your bike is f-cked.
If their insurance does not pay up, and if they do not want to buy it off you at real market value, take them to court.  They will lose, and be also responsible for your time and costs.

[falconati]

^^^^^^^^^

[X1Glider]

My 1150GS was flooded back in 2003.  On my way home, exited the freeway, stuck in traffic, all blocked up as everyone was trying to get out, as the water kept rising until I was swallowed up, sitting on top of a U-boat.  Here's what I learned:

(Touratech panniers are truly waterproof!  They float!)

Water made it's way into everything.

-engine was filled up
-starter, alternator and accessory drive were filled
-All electrical connectors (all not waterproof) were soaked
-ECM soaked
-air box filled up
-gas tank filled up
-after draining, refiling and starting up, bike died after running for 30 seconds.  Turns out that water molecules will not pass through fuel filter media)
-injectors ruined
-seat padding soaked
-dry clutch tranny filled (clutch friction material and water are a disaster)
-electric dash and guages were filled
-headlamps were filled
-tail light and signals were filled
-all bearings were saturated
-shaft housing was filled
-switch housings were soaked
-exhaust system including muff and cat were filled up

For a competent and caring shop to completely disassemble the whole bike, dry it completely, and reassemble it with new lubes, dielectric greases and replace all electric components would have been triple the price of a new bike.

Nothing good will come of a flooded bike coming back in your possession.

Any shop that says your bike is ok is filled with idiots and the shop's name should be made public so no one else goes to them.  They are untrustworthy.

The shop's insurance should cover this, not yours.  It should be totalled.  Accept nothing less.

[Dan K]

The bike is toast.  You don't want it anymore.

1. Dealer's insurance is responsible. Bike was in their possession.  

2. If they are telling you its OK, tell them they should take it on trade and give you fair market value for it right now, before insurance companies get involved any further.

Take the advice given here as to what it takes to repair a submerged bike (all of the cleaning/replacing etc. listed above) and make sure the adjuster includes it on his estimate before he leaves the bike.  Ask him if he included replacing and repacking all bearings, checking frame for water, all of that stuff that happened to the GS, etc.  And if he says no, ask him why not.

- Dan

[JTM]

The bike is toast.  You don't want it anymore.

1. Dealer's insurance is responsible. Bike was in their possession.  

I'm not sure how it is up there, but down here a dealership's insurance does not cover damage by rising water (flooding) unless they have a specific flood policy.

[atadaskew]

I'm not sure how it is up there, but down here a dealership's insurance does not cover damage by rising water (flooding) unless they have a specific flood policy.

Then the dealership has to pay for the bike out of pocket.

[et]

I'm not sure how it is up there, but down here a dealership's insurance does not cover damage by rising water (flooding) unless they have a specific flood policy.

BUT that does not mean they are not responsible or liable.

[Dan K]

If that's the case, and their insurance really is off the hook, let your insurance company go after the dealer and get the bike replaced.

- Dan

[PatM]

Insurance policies don't normally cover flooding unless it's the sewers backing up.
Your policy may cover it though. And they may be a good ally to get resolution from the dealer.
+1 on not taking it back. I wouldn't.

[county]

Well, if it was an FJR that got flooded I would say not to worry, any other bike you need a replacement....

[PatM]

FJR would have prevented the flood.  

[garry]

Dirt bikes regularly get submerged under water (while running) and survive after being dragged to shore, turned upside down to drain out the water, change the oil and go. That's not quite the same as being submerged for most of day, but in some ways (the bike is running) is worse.

Is YOUR bike OK? Who knows without a lengthy teardown. My wild speculation is that it's probably OK after a few oil changes and some maintenance. But since it wasn't your fault the bike went swimming, get insurance to write it off (why take a chance).

[white26golf]

Insurance policies don't normally cover flooding unless it's the sewers backing up.
Your policy may cover it though. And they may be a good ally to get resolution from the dealer.
+1 on not taking it back. I wouldn't.

This is the exact reason my insurance says that the business insurance probably won't cover it.  If it had been due to faulty pipes or something, then that is the businesses responsibility.  Since it was an act of nature out of control of the business, then they more than likely are not liable.  I am dreading the inevitable fight with my insurance adjuster on this matter.  I concur with all of you that say the damage unseen is the problem, and I don't want to have to pay to get something fixed every few months from now due to the damage that this might have caused.  I will be pushing for replacement value of the bike, but it's a waiting game right now.  I am waiting to here what the adjuster has to say, and building my rebuttal case with your guys insightful questions of what they checked.

[kyzrex]

Then the dealership has to pay for the bike out of pocket.

This......

Having run auto repair shops that were self insured, I can tell you that this is absolutely the truth.

 Once again, if the dealership refuses to pay, don't get angry.....get a lawyers opinion, then take them to court, you will win.

[PatM]

I'm not sure up if the shop can be held responsible for the flooding. We don't have enough details for that. (I know, this is the internet and we're all EOE after all.  )
I've been reading up on this and it really isn't clear who is responsible. If they attempt to fix it, then they may have a responsibility but for the fixing part.
If you have comprehensive coverage on your insurance, you should be covered. If the bike has a loan against it, you may also be in luck. Also if the bike isn't declared totalled by your insurance, you should ask for a written warranty from your insurer and the repair shop (the one that fixes it) for the time that you will own it. You will however loose when you sell it eventually IMO.
http://www.ehow.com/info_7825137_car-insurance-cover-flooded-vehicle.html

[stevent]

 Once again, if the dealership refuses to pay, don't get angry.....get a lawyers opinion, then take them to court, you will win.

This right here. Don't get angry, take notes including names and dates of everyone you talked to, document everything. Insist they buy the bike off you for fair market value, If not give a copy of your notes to a lawyer and take them to court. The bike was in their care when it happened, they should step up and make it good.

[Bounce]

BUT that does not mean they are not responsible or liable.

their failure to buy flood insurance isn't YOUR problem or liability.

[JTM]

I can tell who doesn't live in a flood region, the court's oppinion of the creek rising is "too bad". You will have to file this on your insurance and they will go after the shop's insurance if they have flood coverage.  Rising Water (flooding) falls under the "Act of clause" where no one is considered to be at fault.

The shop kind of screwed you by changing the fluids before you could inspect it, but at the same time if they had waited for you to inspect it it have cause more harm to to the internals.

Dirt bikes regularly get submerged under water (while running) and survive after being dragged to shore, turned upside down to drain out the water, change the oil and go. That's not quite the same as being submerged for most of day, but in some ways (the bike is running) is worse.

You are using a bad example. Most dirt bikes don't have ECUs, sensors, or lights. Then you need to look at the maintenance schedule of a dirt bike and you will notice that you are supposed to replace your piston and rings every 15-60hr depending on model, some models require complete top end in that time frame, valve checks every 5-30hrs.

[white26golf]

 If the bike has a loan against it, you may also be in luck. Also if the bike isn't declared totalled by your insurance, you should ask for a written warranty from your insurer

Can you explain this to me, especially how if I have a lien on it I may be in luck?

[white26golf]

The shop kind of screwed you by changing the fluids before you could inspect it, but at the same time if they had waited for you to inspect it it have cause more harm to to the internals.

Actually since I have comprehensive coverage, this is exactly how they may have screwed me.  More harm would not have hurt me in the least.  It is the "appearance" that the bike may be ok and possibly an inexperienced insurance adjuster is what will screw me in the long run.

[county]

Actually since I have comprehensive coverage, this is exactly how they may have screwed me.  More harm would not have hurt me in the least.  It is the "appearance" that the bike may be ok and possibly an inexperienced insurance adjuster is what will screw me in the long run.

Only if you allow it....

[white26golf]

Don't get me wrong, I will fight it if they try to do anything but total the bike.  However in the end, short of a legal battle which I am not financially prepared for, it comes down to what "they" are willing to do.  So if you could explain how I may be able to not allow myself to be possibly screwed on this, it would be welcome.  Oh and good to see someone else from M-town.

[county]

I would be demanding some sort of guarantee if they do not want to do anything....of course they won't provide any such thing but it is a starting point for negotiations...

But I expect they will see your point and buy the bike....

I hope you keep us up to date on this interesting situation....is the shop in Memphis?

[white26golf]

No the shop is not in Memphis, can't remember the last time even Mud Island was under water. I am in the Army, and am currently stationed at Ft Polk, LA.

[white26golf]

That is a good point though, I will ask the insurance company if they will provide some sort of written warranty that will protect me against water damage to components that might go bad because of this for the next 3 years without paying a deductible.  When they say no, they would have proved all of our points that who knows what damage this could cause in the long run.

[kyzrex]

Value of bike under 5000?   If so, go to Small Claims court, usually cost under 50.00 to file a claim.  Let a local judge decide.  You can get free legal advice in most communities for this type of case if you need it.  Legal Aid Society.

If the dealership is a Better Business member you can see if the dealership has any complaints on record, and the BBB will mediate in most cases, if you desire this, at no cost to you.  

Dealership was flooded, right?  How are they handling the other bikes that were in for service, or where on the showroom floor?  replacing?  Repairing?  

If they plan to sell the flooded new bikes....let the state attorney General's office know, along with the division of consumer affairs.  I'm pretty sure they will have an opinion on the case as well.

Bottom line.....the more people you can get to contact the dealership, the better.  They don't want the bad publicity nor will they want the consumer action groups breathing down their necks.  They might just agree to pay you off just to get you to go away.  And.....none of this should cost you any money other than your time, phone calls, letters, and possibly some gas.

[PatM]

Can you explain this to me, especially how if I have a lien on it I may be in luck?

When you insure a vehicle, you in fact insure the lender from loss of said vehicle. They, not you, will be paid first. This is why most lenders will require proof of insurance. The bank will, up to a point, be on your side.

[white26golf]

When you insure a vehicle, you in fact insure the lender from loss of said vehicle. They, not you, will be paid first. This is why most lenders will require proof of insurance. The bank will, up to a point, be on your side.

Yeah, all of this I understand, and I do have comprehensive coverage on all my bikes anyways.  For the last part, are you saying if they don't total it to get the bank involved to see if they will pressure the insurance company?  I am also in talks with several dealerships for a 2012 Vstrom should I need to trade the bike in to get rid of it, and there ballparks on the trade would more than cover the remaining loan amount.

[white26golf]

Value of bike under 5000?   If so, go to Small Claims court, usually cost under 50.00 to file a claim.  Let a local judge decide.  You can get free legal advice in most communities for this type of case if you need it.  Legal Aid Society.

If the dealership is a Better Business member you can see if the dealership has any complaints on record, and the BBB will mediate in most cases, if you desire this, at no cost to you.  

Dealership was flooded, right?  How are they handling the other bikes that were in for service, or where on the showroom floor?  replacing?  Repairing?  

If they plan to sell the flooded new bikes....let the state attorney General's office know, along with the division of consumer affairs.  I'm pretty sure they will have an opinion on the case as well.

Bottom line.....the more people you can get to contact the dealership, the better.  They don't want the bad publicity nor will they want the consumer action groups breathing down their necks.  They might just agree to pay you off just to get you to go away.  And.....none of this should cost you any money other than your time, phone calls, letters, and possibly some gas.

I thought about what they were doing with their new bikes as well, and if they were totaling them to use that as evidence in regards to the claim.  And if they were still going to sell them to "pressure" them under the guise of bad publicity to buy my bike from me.  The pressuring is a last result though, cause I really don't like to do that sort of thing, but in the end it's me against the world i guess.

[white26golf]

http://www.bbb.org/lakecharles/business-reviews/motorcycles-dealers/motion-cyclesports-in-deridder-la-5000023

Here is the link to their BBB page, looks like someone else filed a complaint 2 days after the flooding happened.  Wish I could get in touch with them to find out what their issue is.

[PatM]

Yeah, all of this I understand, and I do have comprehensive coverage on all my bikes anyways.  For the last part, are you saying if they don't total it to get the bank involved to see if they will pressure the insurance company?  I am also in talks with several dealerships for a 2012 Vstrom should I need to trade the bike in to get rid of it, and there ballparks on the trade would more than cover the remaining loan amount.

It depends, they may do that if they stand to loose.
If you trade it in, don't you have to declare it was flooded? I know that up here you have to, but laws differ.

[white26golf]

It depends, they may do that if they stand to loose.
If you trade it in, don't you have to declare it was flooded? I know that up here you have to, but laws differ.

I believe only if the bike requires a salvage title after it is all said and done.  However it only gets a salvage title if the repair cost is 75-90% of the value of the vehicle, then in that case it would also be grounds for a total loss.

[JTM]

Actually since I have comprehensive coverage, this is exactly how they may have screwed me.  More harm would not have hurt me in the least.  It is the "appearance" that the bike may be ok and possibly an inexperienced insurance adjuster is what will screw me in the long run.

Maybe, maybe not, most of the adjusters I have meet will look at what they did as an attemp to hide damage and will be more likely to total the bike.  The guys I know work for Farmers and State Farm, granted they also told me if the ecu was submerge it is totaled.


If they don't total it, I wouldn't accept any offer that didn't include a 3 year (unlimited mileage) $0 deductible warranty, an overhaul of the transmission by the shop of your choice, replacement of all axle bearings, a new chain, main wiring harness, and a new ECU.

You really needed to see the oil they drained and get some picture before they clean it up to present to the adjuster.

[white26golf]

Maybe, maybe not, most of the adjusters I have meet will look at what they did as an attemp to hide damage and will be more likely to total the bike.  The guys I know work for Farmers and State Farm, granted they also told me if the ecu was submerge it is totaled.


If they don't total it, I wouldn't accept any offer that didn't include a 3 year (unlimited mileage) $0 deductible warranty, an overhaul of the transmission by the shop of your choice, replacement of all axle bearings, a new chain, main wiring harness, and a new ECU.

You really needed to see the oil they drained and get some picture before they clean it up to present to the adjuster.

Good advice!  I am definitely glad I joined THIS forum!

[Kneescrubber]

Honestly, I still don't understand why you're dicking around with your insurance. If you make a claim on your insurance, I can guarantee you you're rates will go up. Your attention needs to be focused on the the shop that had your bike and what their insurance is willing to offer. If their offer is insufficient, then you talk to your insurance to make up the difference. Believe me, they'll work it out and hand you a monetary compensation for what your bike was worth at the time of the flood.

[white26golf]

Well, I am not exactly dicking around with my insurance.  They are getting my bike appraised, and meanwhile I am waiting (for one day) to get the business contact info for their insurance so I can find out from them what they will do.  Trust me, all of your guys advice is not falling on deaf ears.  I am using bits of everyone's advice in a timely order to garner the best results.  Sorry, I will keep you guys better informed from now on  

[RedCBRRider]

Almost sounds like some of you are confusing "synthetic" with "energy" conserving.
Wet clutches can take synthetic with no problems.
It's the "energy conserving" part of motor oils designed for cars that should not be used with motorcycle wet clutches.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

I have used Mobil 1 in my bikes for years with no problem at all.

[rgbeard]

You have insurance.

Have YOUR insurance company total the bike.  They sue the dealer.  Done.

[X1Glider]

You have insurance.

Have YOUR insurance company total the bike.  They sue the dealer.  Done.

Insurance companies are too lazy to do that.  Rather than get the lawyers involved on a case by case business, the different carriers just pay up out of their own pockets for the time being, then each quarter decide what other carrier is owed money, the a big check is cut.  Much easier for them to write one check every quarter.

[X1Glider]

As the OP's bike is likely not the only bike that was submerged, I would think that their insurance is covering something.  Even if they do not have flood insurance for covering "rising water", they can still be taken to civil court as the bike is in their possession and they have the obligation to return it to you at least in the condition it was brought in.  If they don't, the court will either make the shop bring it up to that condition or pay out if the cost would exceed the bike's value.

If the shop plans on selling bikes that were submerged, they could be looking a fraud for selling bikes in that state if they do not state that to the customer, who thinks they are buying a new/undamaged bike.  This is where the press can work in your favor.  A reporter might like a story of a shop trying to pull one over on the customers.  Holding that over the shop's head may make them change their tune about buying your bike for what it's worth or even replacement cost in order to shut your mouth.

It's not personal, just business.

[white26golf]

Ok, so here is the latest.  My insurance company has assigned the bike as a total loss, so now I should know in about 24-48 hrs what they value the bike at.  Thanks for all the advice guys.  I will keep you posted.

[atadaskew]

Ok, so here is the latest.  My insurance company has assigned the bike as a total loss, so now I should know in about 24-48 hrs what they value the bike at.  Thanks for all the advice guys.  I will keep you posted.

Excellent!  Goes against the shop's claim...

The store called me today, to tell me nothing was wrong with the V, they had drained, and flushed all fluids (read: changed the oil).

[white26golf]

Excellent news!  

Last time (well, only time) I had a bike totaled, they gave me markedly more than blue book value on it, and far more than I paid. Keep us apprised.  

Hey, don't jinx me!  Looking at a 2012 Vstrom for my next ride.

[white26golf]

So the end of the story is my Bank/ Insurance is paying me 4300 for the bike.  Not exactly more than it's worth, actually it's exactly what I valued it at after doing some research.  So it does look like a 2012 Vstrom is in my future!  Oh and if you guys meet the criteria, I highly recommend USAA for your banking and insurance needs!

[Kneescrubber]

So the end of the story is my Bank/ Insurance is paying me 4300 for the bike.  Not exactly more than it's worth, actually it's exactly what I valued it at after doing some research.  So it does look like a 2012 Vstrom is in my future!  Oh and if you guys meet the criteria, I highly recommend USAA for your banking and insurance needs!

I didn't realize USAA did banking. I'll have to look into that.  

Congratulations on the equitable outcome.

[veefer800canuck]

All's well that ends well.  


Now about that synthetic oil........

[Joey Stalin]

So the end of the story is my Bank/ Insurance is paying me 4300 for the bike.  Not exactly more than it's worth, actually it's exactly what I valued it at after doing some research.  So it does look like a 2012 Vstrom is in my future!  Oh and if you guys meet the criteria, I highly recommend USAA for your banking and insurance needs!

So does that mean the dealer gets off scott-free? If your rates now go up, you've lost.

If it were me, I'd buy the bike for the totaled value (assuming it's in the $500 range) and part it out. Lots of parts can be salvaged that were unharmed by the water but can easily fetch more than $500 after parting out. Have you seen ebay prices for bike fairings??

[white26golf]

Well, actually my rates are not going to go up, I already have a quote for a new Vstrom.  And honestly, I just want to move on and get another bike, and get back to riding.

[rgbeard]

Well, actually my rates are not going to go up, I already have a quote for a new Vstrom.  And honestly, I just want to move on and get another bike, and get back to riding.

+1 - something to be said about moving on.

[atadaskew]

Well, actually my rates are not going to go up, I already have a quote for a new Vstrom.  And honestly, I just want to move on and get another bike, and get back to riding.

It seems that once you get bored with the Vstrom and are looking for the next bike, a visit to this dealer for an oil change during rainy season may be a good idea....

[3banger]

Dirt bikes regularly get submerged under water (while running) and survive after being dragged to shore, turned upside down to drain out the water, change the oil and go. That's not quite the same as being submerged for most of day, but in some ways (the bike is running) is worse.

I had her up and running in about an hour, though this was a two stroke mind you.  Road the remainder of weekend Moab trip with no issue.  Later when I drained the gear box oil it looked like a milk shake.  I’m still running on the same wheel bearings.  It sat in water about 5 to 10 min before we got it out.



In your case I would have pushed to have the bike totaled but it I had the opportunity to buy back cheap I would.  Ride and get it good and warm, change the oil a few more times and ride piss out of it.