Brake Pads (plus another topic for the Pace...)

[Dan K]

Can someone explain the current varieties of brake pads available? Scintered?  What does that mean? Organic? Ceramic? Steel?

I am clueless but ready to replace the front pads in my Sprint and would like to know about them rather than just blindly accepting recommendations from those in the know.

Chris and James - this would be a nice topic...I'll hit you both up with feedbback.

- Dan

[Kneescrubber]

I keep my calipers clean and fresh fluid in the lines. Unless you're a beast on the brakes and have some kind of beef with how your Sprint stops, OEM should satisfy your needs.

Organic pads are generally softer and thus quieter, but they don't last long. They bed in quickly and work very well for a while.
Ceramic pads are made of much harder material and very light. They're also very expensive. They dissipate heat very well and are good for repeated hard braking from speed and/or weight.
Steel pads, I'm guessing you're talking about metallic pads. These are what most of us use. They're heavy but cover a large range of applications.
Sintered is just another term for metallic.

Save your money and relax your mind.


Unless you're a sticker whore.  

[Dan K]

Thanks! Function over form here.  What's HH?

- Dan

[Kraz]

I think the "HH" signifies that the pads have the most grip - like grippy tire though, they don't last as long.

I always go for HH, despite typically having a higher cost.  I like EBC and Galfer branded pads.

[Cablebandit]

Just buy the EBC HH pads and call it a day.

Now you don't have to blindly accept the recommendation of some random podcast.  

[bomber]

Like most everything, brake pads are a compromise (as has been pointed out on this thread) -- grippier, better feel almost always equals faster wear . . . . .

OEM are really live at a good place between long lasting and high performance . . . .

That said, I've been very happy with the EBC HH in my Tiger . . .

[Cablebandit]

Like most everything, brake pads are a compromise (as has been pointed out on this thread) -- grippier, better feel almost always equals faster wear . . . . .

OEM are really live at a good place between long lasting and high performance . . . .

That said, I've been very happy with the EBC HH in my Tiger . . .

And many stock pads are EBC HH pads anyway.

[Cablebandit]

I think some of those wacky Triumphs also used sintered pads up front and organic in the rear.  They may it harder to "lay it down" that way.

[SLK50]

I think some of those wacky Triumphs also used sintered pads up front and organic in the rear.  They may it harder to "lay it down" that way.

  On one of my bikes I use Kevlar rear pads. The lower initial "bite"
when cold reduces the occurrence of rear wheel lockup during hard stops.

[Cablebandit]

  On one of my bikes I use Kevlar rear pads. The lower initial "bite"
when cold reduces the occurrence of rear wheel lockup during hard stops.

Mine does the same using ABS.  


 

[SLK50]

Mine does the same using ABS.  


 

Some of my bikes are older than the guy who designed your ABS.  

[PatM]

I think the "HH" signifies that the pads have the most grip - like grippy tire though, they don't last as long.

I always go for HH, despite typically having a higher cost.  I like EBC and Galfer branded pads.

It's there ability to resist fade. HH being the highest.

http://www.shotimes.com/brakes/survey/brakes5.html

[PatM]

Well, not exactly. It's a friction rating and measures hot and cold friction. It's a standards-based rating system.

Well I stand corrected.

This two letter edge code mandated by the DOT, and painted on all street legal brake pads, will give you some indication of their ability to resist fade.

[Dan K]

See, this is why I posted it.  I am close to going out and buying the EBC HH pads, because I would rather have better stopping power than worry about when I have to replace them.

Starting to understand.

Seems ceramic are likely more suited to track days/racing, as they will keep the heat from the brake fluid so the brakes don't fade.

Or does the friction coefficient drop when the pads are hot too, causing fade?

- Dan

[Cablebandit]

I don't buy that the primary factor of brake fade is boiling brake fluid.  It's definitely a factor but by the time you get to that point other factors have already come into play.  Mainly heat in the pad/rotor.

Your ceramic pads can withstand temperatures that would cause metal pads and rotors to be well on their way to melting.

[Dan K]

I've seen pics of racers' rotors glowing red hot.  Very cool, but scary.

- Dan

[Kneescrubber]

   It's a compositing and bonding process.

True. Of metal brake materials.

What is sintering???

This is the fusing together under heat and pressure of metallic particles and in the case of brakes it blends various other elements to enhance friction properties and wear life.

Sintered Brakes have become a standard on 99% of Motorcycles and ATVs from the OE Builders and they also form a large percentage of the aftermarket for bikes and ATV’s.

Sintered brakes last longer and generally speaking handle the heat of heavy braking better. In Road Race use we have to admit that there are almost NO organic pads that come close to Sintered compounds but that does not hold true in streetbike use where EBC Organic compounds in terms of performance are almost undetectable from sintered. Proof of this is that EBC Brakes was the first and probably still is the only Brake manufacturer with EC E R 90 brake safety approval of both its sintered Brakes and its Organic brakes on Motorcycle for public highway use.

Although attempts were made by the OEMs a few years ago to cut costs of Sintered brakes by using sintered IRON, that was deemed a failure and these days the base material is copper.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/sintered_brake_pads/index.shtml

[tomek]

" I'd suggest that rotor heat is a problem before brake pad material is a problem, because of the way the metal will polish and burnish under extreme heat and pressure. In that case, yes, mechanical 'fade' (which is poorly named) will be an issue.

I have to disagree with that . Brake pads are the heat related issue loooooooooooong before rotors come into a play . As a matter matter of fact I would say rotors are pretty good on modern sport bikes .

Going back to the pads , OEM pads will - soon or later -   fade on the race track . If you don`t  experience that you are - I`m sorry - not fast enough .  Those pads are compromise so all  that is understandable but if you upgrade to proper race pads your brakes won`t fade on the track even on the stock rotors as long as they are in the good shape .

EBC HH is a relatively good pad but it is an old design and there are better alternatives out there . The one aspect  I`ve never liked about this particular pad was the initial bite and not very progressive feel . I personally prefer OEM pad on my Blackbird , both are sintered .  

EBC EPFA and Versah RJL - I can honestly recommend those two . Technically Versah is a race pad but it works very well on the street too .
 

[X1Glider]

I have to add something for the OP, as he has a bike with ABS.

ABS kicks in when the ECM determines that the rate of deceleration is unrealistic.  These pre-programmed threshholds are there to help prevent lock-up or doing a face plant.  ABS does not have sensors that determine if your wheel actually locked up during use.  The system has no way of knowing if you are locked up or simply sitting still waiting for a light to change.

So, since the ABS threshhold is pre-programmed, it really doesn't do much good to seek out pads that are grippier than stock.  the only thing that will happen is that you will hit that pre-programmed threshhold more quickly and the ABS will kick in anyway.  This was the case with my BMW R bikes and the EBC HH pads over the stock Brembos.  The Sprint ST ABS probably isn't any better.

Now, I feel that EBC HH pads have more initial bite.  If this is what you are looking for, great.  If not, stock pads tend to have more gradual force, interpreted as feel in mild to medium braking needs.

If you had a non-ABS setup, I would say go for the grippiest pads you can find if you're good enough at modulating it yourself.

With race bikes this makes sense, since slicks are so grippy and track surfaces are generally more consistent, that the tire easily overcomes the force on the brake pads, so you need better pads to find that threshhold.

On a road bike, especially the typical ST, the roads we're on have oil spilled on them and stuff and STs usually have harder, longer lasting tires with 1/2 the grip of a race tire.  Bad ass pads will over come a tire's grip far too easily.

[CanadianBird]

EBC HH pads, Motul 5.1 Hydraulic fluid, Galfer wave rotors, Goodridge steel lines. So far so good in the braking dept.