Finished MSF and Riding My Bike!!

[CrookedHalos]

So I completed the MSF this weekend. What a fun experience that was!! The instructors were awesome and they did the lesson that was mandated by Tx but also threw in their actual real world experience. I entered the class never even ridden a bike before and came out with enough confidence to ride my own bike thats been sitting in the living room for the last couple of months lol.
I was the only one in full riding gear taking the lessons.. Everyone else was in jeans and long sleeve sweaters. So I felt kind of silly decked out in full Dainese gear, but I'm glad I was because it gave me the confidence to ride the curves and emergency stops harder. I only dumped the bike once, I locked my front wheel and fell to the side -.-  That was nothing compared to the poor girl who locked the front wheel during a swerve and flew over the handle bars..

But today I put on all my gear and took my 2008 Ninja 500R out around the block.. We have a middle school and a large ditch next to each other and it makes the streets into a figure 8 type, with curves and a lot of stops so I practiced like that. I took a spill after getting to 50mph, tried to take a curve, couldnt slow down fast enough and too afraid to lean aggressively. Even though I got the bike to nearly a stop, the curb got to close and I had to ditch the bike. Surprisingly no scratches other then the ones that were already there from the owner before, it wasn't too bad. But after that I went in circles around the block for an hour or two.

I tend to hold the clutch a lot.. probably more then I should but I don't really know. It was a neighborhood with a lot of turns and stops so is that expected? What gear should I take turns in? Also what angle should i go up or down steep driveway ramps?

[sfalexi]

Excellent! Take your time learning.  Taking a few weeks to learn YOUR bike and get comfortable at parking lot speeds translates to a lot more confidence on the rod and riding better than some other riders who have ridden years.

I sometimes hold the clutch in partially, but mostly parking lot speeds.

As far as gear to take turns in, essentially never go to 1st gear unless youre coming to a stop or riding in a very slow parking lot.  Other than that, the gear is not as important as having a steady throttle and slowly accelerating through the turn.  You dont want to coast into a turn cause theres a chance when you hit the throttle itll be a little snatchy and upset your line/traction.  Just slow down for the turn, pick a speed that you know you can complete the turn in, and maintain the throttle.  And just make sure your gear isnt so low that it chugs or wants to stall (once again, a chug will upset the line of the turn, center of gravity, and make it that much more likely to get dumped)

As for steep driveways, as perpandicular as possible.  No angle.

Enjoy, take your time, and try 40mph around that curve next time till you get used to leaning!

Alexi

[white26golf]

Not to contradict what you are saying, but it sounds like he is misjudging the speed he needs to be at for the maneuvers he is making.  As a fresh beginner, I would just keep it around the neighborhood, and don't go over 40 for about a week or two of total riding time to help you learn your bike.  Also for you and keeping with the neighborhood theme, I would slow down and take all your actual turns in first gear and start learning how to use your clutch and throttle together in a turn, once that is mastered, you will be able to make most turns in 2nd if not from a complete stop.  Remember, you just learned the theory of the basics, now it's time to use that knowledge and build off it.  A 500 is still a powerful machine in a beginner's hands, master that bike at the slower speeds, and everything else will come with experience.

[CrookedHalos]

Thank you both for the reply. And the bucking you refered to while taking the turn is exactly what Im afraid of. Is the proper way to get into second, pull the clutch and work it with the throttle? Or should it be no clutch during the turn? Also is it okay to take off in 2nd gear from a stop? We did that a lot in the lessons but is it improper and damaging to the bike? Also I read that you could up shift without using the clutch, what's your thoughts on that? So many questions! Clutch control is completely new to me so I'm still learning how to control it. I'm pretty smooth with it do far ( thank you video games. )

[white26golf]

Thank you both for the reply. And the bucking you refered to while taking the turn is exactly what Im afraid of. Is the proper way to get into second, pull the clutch and work it with the throttle? Or should it be no clutch during the turn? Also is it okay to take off in 2nd gear from a stop? We did that a lot in the lessons but is it improper and damaging to the bike? Also I read that you could up shift without using the clutch, what's your thoughts on that? So many questions! Clutch control is completely new to me so I'm still learning how to control it. I'm pretty smooth with it do far ( thank you video games. )

Ok, I will try to hit each point here in order.  The bucking you are concerned with is easily remedied with proper clutch and throttle usage.  As far as taking off in second gear, and the instructor's having you do that in the course is absolutely wrong.  At every stop you should be in first gear ready to take off or get yourself out of the way from being rear ended.....they should have taught you that every time you stop you should be in 1st, not Neutral or 2nd.  You "can" upshift without clutch, however only experienced riders that know how to do it without damaging the bike should do it.  A caveat to that is you should not be doing it, it is an advanced technique, and actually unless you are racing isn't needed.  With proper shifting technique, you are still faster off the line than 99% of the cars in EP.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Let's see if I can add some more information to the bucket!

- I found that the lower the gear I'm in when cornering, the more stability and instant response I'll have when it's time to pull out of the corner.

- I generally never pull in the clutch when cornering unless I'm crawling into it. I rely on low gears and throttle control.

- I suggest that you keep your speeds below 40mph until you get more familiar with your bike. Remember: any idiot can go fast. Only a good rider can ride slow  

- Always start off in 1st gear. I have issues that the MSF taught you otherwise  

- Upshifting (IMHO) without the clutch is just lazy and not a good habit

- Keep at it! Having an empty lot like that is fantastic for letting you focus on YOU and the BIKE. Not cars, not potholes... those will come later    Maybe find some cones or markers to set up your own course. Practice tight, slow corners, fast braking and other MSF things that you were introduced to. And have fun!  

[Cablebandit]

- Always start off in 1st gear. I have issues that the MSF taught you otherwise  

That's not in the curriculum.  You should always start in first.  In fact you'll lose points if you don't downshift to first upon stopping.

[ninetysix-ex-jay]

Congrats dude!

I agree with everyone above me.  Take it SLOW, it never hurts to go at a slow pace.  

What I used to do was practice emergency stopping and some maneuvers in the parking lot of my local high school.  You would be supprised on how much you can improve stopping distance and muscle memory.

Pick up a copy of Total Control.  They have a lot of parking lot exercises that really let you hone your skills.  From my experience though, they don't like it if you put spray paint on the parking lot for reference marks  

[Cablebandit]

24 colors!!

[white26golf]

- I suggest that you keep your speeds below 40mph until you get more familiar with your bike. Remember: any idiot can go fast. Only a good rider can ride slow  

Sad, but I still haven't mastered the figure 8 box!  U-turn on a 2 lane is fine, but still difficult for me to do in a single lane......practice, practice, practice!

[Cablebandit]

Sad, but I still haven't mastered the figure 8 box!  U-turn on a 2 lane is fine, but still difficult for me to do in a single lane......practice, practice, practice!

Every time I get to the MSF range I take a couple spins around the u-turn box on the C14.  Like you said.  Practice practice practice.

[taximan62]

Go onto youtube and look for Twist of the Wrist II

Watch all of it.  It is in multiple parts on youtube.  Teaches you proper cornering techniques.

[white26golf]

Every time I get to the MSF range I take a couple spins around the u-turn box on the C14.  

Show off

[Cablebandit]

That's what I ride.  I should at least be able to demo on it.  

[CrookedHalos]

You all answered my questions perfectly! Today was day 2 of my practice and I had my friend join me. She had been waiting for me to get my bike to practice with me. So we are both beginners. I am riding a 2008 Ninja 500R while she rides a 2010 Ninja 250.
As you all suggested I didn't take my speed past the speed limits in the area, so nothing above 35. My cornering improved! I bring the bike into 2nd gear, get my speed to 15 before the turn. Then without using the clutch I power out of it. It's much more easy when you don't have to worry about clutch control during a corner. I tried to practice also by letting go of the clutch more often. So during the school zone I would cruise in 2nd maintaining just a steady throttle. This bike was well maintained. I'd kick myself if I destroyed the transmission. Oh I also practice my turned singles and learned it much easier to flip the switch before you begin the turning process >.<
Another thing.. My partner was following me around the street course, but I was constantly worried about her. Her bike isn't loud so I can't hear her and as a result I always looked behind me. Is there any budget gadgets so we can maintain communication? This did help me work on multitasking and awareness, also my rear view mirrors suck!!

[sfalexi]

You all answered my questions perfectly! Today was day 2 of my practice and I had my friend join me. She had been waiting for me to get my bike to practice with me. So we are both beginners. I am riding a 2008 Ninja 500R while she rides a 2010 Ninja 250.

Awesome.  Always nice to have someone else to learn with ya.  Good choices on bikes too (opinion, I know, but it's hard to fault a tried and tested bike)

As you all suggested I didn't take my speed past the speed limits in the area, so nothing above 35. My cornering improved! I bring the bike into 2nd gear, get my speed to 15 before the turn. Then without using the clutch I power out of it. It's much more easy when you don't have to worry about clutch control during a corner.

I tried to practice also by letting go of the clutch more often. So during the school zone I would cruise in 2nd maintaining just a steady throttle. This bike was well maintained. I'd kick myself if I destroyed the transmission.

You're not gonna destroy anything by keeping a steady speed without the clutch pulled in.  You just found the gear that worked well at the speed, and maintained a steady throttle.  Exactly what you're supposed to do.

Oh I also practice my turned singles and learned it much easier to flip the switch before you begin the turning process >.<
Another thing.. My partner was following me around the street course, but I was constantly worried about her. Her bike isn't loud so I can't hear her and as a result I always looked behind me. Is there any budget gadgets so we can maintain communication? This did help me work on multitasking and awareness, also my rear view mirrors suck!!

I have the SENA SMH10 headsets.  I got a sale where I got the set for 250 bucks.  A good price for two.  The chatterbox systems sell very well, but I've heard mixed reviews which for some reason steered me away, plus I like all the features of the SMH10.  SENA just released an SMH-5 unit.  Essentially does everything the SMH10 does, but with less battery life, and less range between units before they lose connection.  And apparantly the motorcycle dealer we bought our bike from in Greenville SC is the leading seller of chatterbox, so probably has decent prices if you decide to go that route.

Alexi

[bbh]

Congratulations! Take it slow and steady and, with luck, you'll have a lifetime of riding ahead of you.

[JavaD]

Congrats on passing.  Welcome to the ride.

[Kootenanny]

Let's see if I can add some more information to the bucket!

- I found that the lower the gear I'm in when cornering, the more stability and instant response I'll have when it's time to pull out of the corner.

- I generally never pull in the clutch when cornering unless I'm crawling into it. I rely on low gears and throttle control.

- I suggest that you keep your speeds below 40mph until you get more familiar with your bike. Remember: any idiot can go fast. Only a good rider can ride slow  

- Always start off in 1st gear. I have issues that the MSF taught you otherwise  

- Upshifting (IMHO) without the clutch is just lazy and not a good habit

- Keep at it! Having an empty lot like that is fantastic for letting you focus on YOU and the BIKE. Not cars, not potholes... those will come later    Maybe find some cones or markers to set up your own course. Practice tight, slow corners, fast braking and other MSF things that you were introduced to. And have fun!  

This is most excellent advice!

In reference to: "But today I put on all my gear and took my 2008 Ninja 500R out around the block.. We have a middle school and a large ditch next to each other and it makes the streets into a figure 8 type, with curves and a lot of stops so I practiced like that. I took a spill after getting to 50mph, tried to take a curve, couldnt slow down fast enough and too afraid to lean aggressively."  I'm really glad that you understand the situation--you were too afraid to lean hard enough!  (Many riders will insist, "The bike just wouldn't turn!")  The confidence to lean a bike aggressively is something that takes time to develop--and indeed, many never do.  You have a head-start in that you know it can be done, and you know the limitation is you, not the bike.  Don't push it too hard, but...do practice leaning the bike, using steady forward pressure on the "inside" grip (the grip to the inside of the corner).  You can do this in a parking lot, at relatively low speeds--but the real joy is in doing it at speed.  The ability to lean the bike over is what makes motorcycling fun IMO, and I believe it's important to learn HOW to do it with precision and accuracy.

With experience will come confidence in your abilities and trust in the bike (which WILL lean further--much further--than you think it can!).

[cbsnbiker]

Congrats!

You're getting some pretty good input.

I recommend that you go back to your Student Guide. As you re-read it, think about the questions you've been asking here (and the responses). Is the content helpful? How does it jibe with what you've been experiencing?

As others have pointed out, nowhere in the MSF course does it say to start off from a stop in anything other than first gear. I'm not clear if you were saying that someone said to do so, or just that it was a common boo-boo that novices were making. The latter is perfectly understandable; the former is incorrect advice.

Finally, consider taking the BRCII (formerly known as ERC) on your bike. Now that you have some real world experience, you may find it both helpful and fun.

[miles]

So I completed the MSF this weekend. What a fun experience that was!! The instructors were awesome and they did the lesson that was mandated by Tx but also threw in their actual real world experience. I entered the class never even ridden a bike before and came out with enough confidence to ride my own bike thats been sitting in the living room for the last couple of months lol.
I was the only one in full riding gear taking the lessons.. Everyone else was in jeans and long sleeve sweaters. So I felt kind of silly decked out in full Dainese gear, but I'm glad I was because it gave me the confidence to ride the curves and emergency stops harder. I only dumped the bike once, I locked my front wheel and fell to the side -.-  That was nothing compared to the poor girl who locked the front wheel during a swerve and flew over the handle bars..

But today I put on all my gear and took my 2008 Ninja 500R out around the block.. We have a middle school and a large ditch next to each other and it makes the streets into a figure 8 type, with curves and a lot of stops so I practiced like that. I took a spill after getting to 50mph, tried to take a curve, couldnt slow down fast enough and too afraid to lean aggressively. Even though I got the bike to nearly a stop, the curb got to close and I had t

o ditch the bike. Surprisingly no scratches other then the ones that were already there from the owner before, it wasn't too bad. But after that I went in circles around the block for an hour or two.

I tend to hold the clutch a lot.. probably more then I should but I don't really know. I
t was a neighborhood with a lot of turns and stops so is that expected? What gear should I take turns in? Also what angle should i go up or down steep driveway ramps?

So- my two cents worth. Always start in first gear. I understand it's easy to forget to downshift all the way, so make it part of your slowing down procedure. As you're approaching a stop, keep shifting down as your speed decreases, until you shift to first at less than 5 mph.

this serves two important functions. The first is to put you in the correct gear when you start up again. The second is that it keeps the bike in the proper rev range to accelerate if need be. An example might be coming to a red light that turns green before you stop fully. If you'd just pulled in the clutch as you slowed, toy wouldn't be able to roll the throttle on and go- you'd have to find the correct gear, and maybe stall out or something embarrassing like that. If you're already in the right gear, it's all smiles.

Do the same approaching a corner. Downshift as you slow on approach, then roll through the turn in second or third (or whatever gear is appropriate) and elope through the turn itself without touching the clutch. The only time you really want to be working the clutch mid-turn is very slow maneuvers like U-turns. The clutch upsets the stability of the bike, which is not desirable when turning.

Motorcycling is a bit like skiing in that you have to have some speed to learn how to control things, but speed is frightening at first. The fact you're keeping it close to the speed limit is perfect for now. 25 to 45 mph is plenty fast enough to learn all you need to for now. Keep it cool and don't let the thrill of speed get you in trouble.

As suggested above, communications systems like the SENA or the chatterbox can be a great aid. I've been very pleased with the SENA, and enjoy how it let's
me communicate with others while riding. Of course, we mainly use it to heckle each other...

The main piece of advice I can give is never stop trying to improve your skills. There s no motorcyclist anywhere who couldn't stand to get better. I consider skills better than most, but I try to work on my techniques with every single ride.

[bomber]

The main piece of advice I can give is never stop trying to improve your skills. There s no motorcyclist anywhere who couldn't stand to get better. I consider skills better than most, but I try to work on my techniques with every single ride.

ANd this is one of the things that makes motorcycling such an engaging thing . . . . you can ALWAYS learn more, always improve -- this keeps me curious and alert, and willing to sharpen my skills . . . . .

Congrats!

[bassjones]

Whatever else you do, if you find yourself in a corner going faster than you're comfortable with, do NOT touch the front brake or release the throttle. Brake and you'll probably (almost certainly) low side. Release the throttle and you'll stand up and end up in the oncoming lane. Just force your eyes to a point beyond the curve, keep steady throttle and press a little harder on the inside bar. Most (mine was, as are most others I know) first crashes are a direct result of panicking in a curve and locking up the front brake. Of course, the best thing to do is not get into a corner too fast, but it happens and when it does, try and ride it out. You'll probably find out your bike can turn a lot better than you thought it could then pull over, breathe for a minute, say a prayer, and clean out your boxer shorts... Get back on and keep riding.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Most (mine was, as are most others I know) first crashes are a direct result of panicking in a curve and locking up the front brake. Of course, the best thing to do is not get into a corner too fast, but it happens and when it does, try and ride it out. You'll probably find out your bike can turn a lot better than you thought it could then pull over, breathe for a minute, say a prayer, and clean out your boxer shorts... Get back on and keep riding.

That being said, my first lowside was because the tires lost traction    

I could see the corner tightening up and as I leaned the bike more and said to myself over and over "Trust your tires. Trust your tires." A few minutes later I was sliding along the road and the bike did a nice little belly flop into the dirt  

But bassjones has made some valid points and you should pay attention. Naturally, the best thing to do is not to get into one of these situations in the first place  

[Kootenanny]

I could see the corner tightening up and as I leaned the bike more and said to myself over and over "Trust your tires. Trust your tires." A few minutes later I was sliding along the road and the bike did a nice little belly flop into the dirt  

I distinctly recall riding around a curve, which seemed to be getting tighter and tighter.  I kept trying to get the bike to turn, but it just wouldn't...and I rode right off the outside of the shoulder and into the ditch.  I can't recall if I used the brake or not, but my tires never lost traction...until I was off the pavement.  

BTW, this incident occurred long before I ever took any training or heard the word, "countersteering..."  

[bassjones]

I distinctly recall riding around a curve, which seemed to be getting tighter and tighter.  I kept trying to get the bike to turn, but it just wouldn't...and I rode right off the outside of the shoulder and into the ditch.  I can't recall if I used the brake or not, but my tires never lost traction...until I was off the pavement.  

BTW, this incident occurred long before I ever took any training or heard the word, "countersteering..."  

Target fixation?

[Kootenanny]

Target fixation?

Simple lack of skill...

[bassjones]

Simple lack of skill...

 

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Simple lack of skill...

 


mine could have been one or more of the following:
 - loss of traction due to lack of too small of a contact patch with the pavement
 - loss of traction due to pine needles/debris near the edge of the road
 - loss of traction due to levering up on the footpeg (I'd scraped the peg on the previous turn)

Whatever it was, it was an eye-open for me, and I'm glad that I was able to walk/ride away from it  

[Kneescrubber]

As you begin to gain confidence you'll want to increase your speed thru a corner. Whether it's very slow or very fast the key issue you'll be dealing with is center of gravity (cog) and the effect it has relative to the angle of lean. Other than hard braking or acceleration, the cog of the bike will never change. That means you are the variable. This understanding; this feeling will only come with practice. Whether you realize it or not, you're already doing that at a slow speed. And I applaud you for that. I wish every new rider took the same approach you're taking.

[Kootenanny]

 


mine could have been one or more of the following:
 - loss of traction due to lack of too small of a contact patch with the pavement
 - loss of traction due to pine needles/debris near the edge of the road
 - loss of traction due to levering up on the footpeg (I'd scraped the peg on the previous turn)

Whatever it was, it was an eye-open for me, and I'm glad that I was able to walk/ride away from it  

No, I simply rode wide, right off the road.  That time, anyway...there were others.

[02Tac]

Every time I get to the MSF range I take a couple spins around the u-turn box on the C14.  Like you said.  Practice practice practice.

+1  I am lucky in that the place I work at has a rarely used (and recently repaved) parking lot that doubles as an MSF range with all the lesson lines painted on.