Turning Safely and Comfortably

[alexj]

I have a very difficult time turning at anywhere approaching speed . . . I nearly failed the MSF basic course due to the 'fast curve' portion of the test

Even now after a couple months turns still seem definitely scary and bad for my health unless I slow down to about 10mph below the 'speed recommended by the yellow warning signs', which means I go through turns on 2 wheels even slower than I go through them on 4 wheels (I usually find my 'this is safe and not traumatic' threshhold about 5 mph below the speed on the sign when driving my truck)

Anyway, I know motorcycles can actually turn at speeds . . . . so what is the proper way to go about getting better at turning (and going through curves in the roads also, even if are not turns)

[evilted]

I'm assuming that you're trying to navigate turns on your motorcycle the way you'd drive them in your car  -- don't.  Cars can brake deep into turns without standing up or lowsiding.  

"Slow, Look, Lean, Roll" works for me and there are plenty of references on the web for you to look at.

Find a good place to practice SLLR and I'm sure you'll see rapid improvement in your cornering ability.

I have a very difficult time turning at anywhere approaching speed . . . I nearly failed the MSF basic course due to the 'fast curve' portion of the test

Even now after a couple months turns still seem definitely scary and bad for my health unless I slow down to about 10mph below the 'speed recommended by the yellow warning signs', which means I go through turns on 2 wheels even slower than I go through them on 4 wheels (I usually find my 'this is safe and not traumatic' threshhold about 5 mph below the speed on the sign when driving my truck)

Anyway, I know motorcycles can actually turn at speeds . . . . so what is the proper way to go about getting better at turning (and going through curves in the roads also, even if are not turns)

[CanadianBird]

I encourage you to take/re-take the MCSC. I'm assuming b/c of your "anxiety" you aren't relaxed but rather you are tense. This makes the bike heavy and difficult to turn. You need to look in the direction you want your bike to go. Push on the bar of the direction you want to go. Are you counter balancing on slow tight turns? You should be able to take most corners quite abit over the posted speed. I'm not advocating that but I'm saying it's possible. Are you gearing down to keep the torque up and speed up for that corner? It's easy to ride at speed in a straight line but that's not where the fun is. The fun is in the twisties. Set up some cones in a vacant lot and practice riding through the cones. Where you look is where you go. Riding slow is much more of a challenge than riding fast. It's in the clutch/throttle control, relaxation, and counter balancing yourself in the saddle. Good Luck

[cbsnbiker]

Alexj, I'm going to assume that your bike is in proper working order: everything from properly-functioning suspension pieces to properly-inflated tires. (If not, fix it or get it fixed.)

I recommend that you take a BRCII (formerly known as ERC) course. The coaches can help coach you to improve how you negotiate turns. Make a point of mentioning this concern to them, so they can focus on helping you with your turning skills.

Best wishes!

[M.Brane]

 Look where you want to go.

 Shift your weight to that side of the bike, and slightly forward using the pegs not the bars.

 Roll on the throttle as early as possible.

 Enjoy.

 

[sfalexi]

Have you tried weaving while riding down the road?  Just slightly pushing left, right, left, right on the bars while keeping a steady throttle to initiate a slow and gentle weave?  It gets you used to leaning and countersteering.  Essentially, a turn at speed on a bike is a weave, just in one direction.  Instead of pushing left, right, left, right to continually weave, you push left.  And that's it.  Keep it there, and you turn.  When the turn is DONE, push right to get yourself back up.

Alexi

[Yankee Dog]

Have you tried weaving while riding down the road?  Just slightly pushing left, right, left, right on the bars while keeping a steady throttle to initiate a slow and gentle weave?  It gets you used to leaning and countersteering.  Essentially, a turn at speed on a bike is a weave, just in one direction.  Instead of pushing left, right, left, right to continually weave, you push left.  And that's it.  Keep it there, and you turn.  When the turn is DONE, push right to get yourself back up.

Alexi

Try doing this in a big open parking lot. At slow speed. As you gain confidence, you can increase your speed. you just have to overcome your fear factor.  Dont worry it will come with time and practice.

[Cablebandit]

Try doing this in a big open parking lot. At slow speed. As you gain confidence, you can increase your speed. you just have to overcome your fear factor.  Dont worry it will come with time and practice.

Slow speed being above about 12 ish MPH.  Below that the bike won't have the gyroscopic effect.

[bomber]

 Roll on the throttle as early as possible.

This is an often overlooked item (many folks do it without thinking, so they don't talk about it).

You'll likely be much more comfortable through the turn if you stay on teh throttle throughout (which means slowing to the right speed before turn in) . . . . .

On the throttle doesn't mean WFO, btw, but just slightly more gas than is needed to maintain your speed . . . .

[bikerfish1100]

Slow speed being above about 12 ish MPH. Below that the bike won't have the gyroscopic effect.

yes, it will. just more strongly pronounced.
however, gyro effect is not what makes the bike turn (in case you were thinking in that direction), it's what keeps it rolling upright.

[bikerfish1100]

how far ahead of yourself are you looking? just gonna take a WAG here, and suggest that your eyes, and thus your brain, are way too close to you and your bike.

[CosmicCowboy]

how far ahead of yourself are you looking? just gonna take a WAG here, and suggest that your eyes, and thus your brain, are way too close to you and your bike.

This is what I was going to suggest. Keep your focal distance far enough ahead on your course.

[cbsnbiker]

It also would not surprise me if you are having difficulty with countersteering, Alexj, whether the concept of it or doing it in practice (or both). I especially suspect this since you mentioned having had difficulty with this issue in the cornering part of the BRC as well as in the real world.

Ergo my recommendation for a BRCII course: to have the coaches help you diagnose the issues and help you learn how to improve your cornering skills.  

BTW, in the meantime, slowing way down for turns is a good idea, if you're still hesitant about all of this stuff. Better that you take a corner successfully at a cautiously slow pace than blow a curve at speed.

[taximan62]

I recommend you get this:  Twist of The Wrist II (The cornering bible)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPp4zyJXM28

[Windblown]

"Trouble turning" is a pretty broad description. What scares you most when you're turning at speed?

1) Leaning the bike and losing traction?
2) Leaning the bike and losing balance?
3) Other?

What happens when you feel you are entering a turn too hot? Do you find yourself looking where you are scared you'll end up? Does the bike suddenly feel like it won't turn enough to keep you on the road?

The mind is a powerful thing, just knowing "how" to turn a motorcycle is not enough once fear overwhelms the thought process.  

[pete620]

Proficient Motorcycling has really good break down of how to turn, and why.  It helped me out alot when I was getting started.

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1933958359/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335797917&sr=1-1

[Bellboy1]

Another good book, regardless fo what you ride is Sport Riding Techniques.  Whereas Proficinet Motorcycling gets into the what happens to the motoecycle by countersteering at the handlebars, Nick presents an alternative viewpoint where you concentrate on eyes, head and chest leading into the curve which results in your hands automatically countersteering properly.  I found that even at low speeds, by concentrating on those areas, the turns got easier and easier for me.  It doesn't take much, and you are not "hanging off the bike", just enough to work with the bike as it goes through the curve rather than fighting it.  Once you get the technique down the speeds start coming up over time because you gain much more confidence that the bike will not suddenly do something unexpected.

Whatever you do, work up to it slowly.  Do NOT feel pressured to take those curves any faster.  That is where a lot of people get into trouble riding over their head.  Speed will come with time, practice and confidence.  

[Corbeau]

The idea behind rolling on the throttle is that when the bike is leaned, which it needs to be to turn, the circumference of the part of the tire is smaller than when upright. So you need to increase the RPMs to even things out.
Very nice graphic in Profficient Motorcycling. Or just ponder that next time you eat a donut.

[bikerfish1100]

The idea behind rolling on the throttle is that when the bike is leaned, which it needs to be to turn, the circumference of the part of the tire is smaller than when upright. So you need to increase the RPMs to even things out.
Very nice graphic in Profficient Motorcycling. Or just ponder that next time you eat a donut.

Besides counteracting the slowing of the bike caused by the lean, adding throttle also "sets" ("stabilizes" in MSF's terminology, "extends" in practical application) the suspension, making the bike ride taut, not wallowy.

[caasland]

I had a friend with a similar problem. Turns out she was counteracting her countersteering, i.e. when she pushed on the left handlebar to go left, she also pushed on the right handlebar. Her solution was to left go of the outside handlebar completely and kept her hand hovering about an inch over it until she convinced herself what she was doing wrong.

So ... are you SURE you're not countering your counter-steering?