Turning Safely and Comfortably

[Rattlehead]

The whole “leaning to turn” thing is very unnatural and terrifying to a lot of people.    My wife struggled with it quite a bit. With time and practice though, it becomes more natural and the fear subsides.  

Some suggestions:
-If you don’t understand the concept of counter steering, you need to read up on it and practice it in a safe environment (open parking lot, deserted curvy road). This is a fundamental concept to riding and you really need to be able to do it without thinking. Most people who struggle with it are simply over-thinking it. It’s not a difficult skill and it will feel very natural once you become comfortable leaning the bike to turn at speed.

-Relax.   The connection between bike/rider is 1,000,000 more pronounced than in a car. If you’re tense, the bike will feel tense. If you’re relaxed, the bike will just “flow” with you. I know it sounds kinda “hokey” but a bike will “sense” its rider mood/ condition. If you find yourself getting tense or scared, pull over, take a walk, sit down and chill, whatever it takes to clear your mind and then hop back on and continue your riding. You’re not doing yourself any favors by continuing on when your whole body is a tensed up, stressed out wreck.

-Trust your bike. lean it over and trust that it will stick (within reason of course, going 100mph around that 30mph curve is going to require a MASSIVE amount of skill and not just trust.   ). Even the worst handling bikes out there can generally run the posted speed through a curve. Aside from a whole road being covered in loose sand and oil slicks your tires will have no problems sticking to the pavement at the normal pace of traffic. Remember, most bikes have more capabilities than the riders on them, so trust it and let it do its thing.

-get comfortable with leaning. If you are traveling any speed over a jogging pace you will not just “fall over”. The real risk of falling over is generally when you’re going so slow you haven’t even put your feet up on the pegs yet. Most motorcycles are comfortable with VERY high amounts of lean angle, most new riders are not. The more you ride the less worrisome it will be to lean the bike. In fact, in time you will probably become comfortable enough that some bikes will run out of available lean angle before you become uncomfortable. THATS an interesting experiance the 1st time it happens.  

-Lastly, Be patient. Learning to ride takes time and learning to really ride takes quite a bit more. You won’t have it mastered by the end of the week so just set it in your mind that it’s a learning process and it’s going to take time. Just relax and try to enjoy the ride.
 good luck  

[retro]

I can relate to this. My main fear was that the tires would lose traction. My brain refused to believe that such a small contact patch would hold me on the road. My first fast (for me) curves were a leap of faith but I watched other riders leaned over way further than I ever did. So trust your tires.

The other thing that has helped was reading in one of the books mentioned, I can't remember which, as you begin to enter the curve, turn your chest in the direction you want to go, not just your head. And shift your weight to the inside peg. Not sure why but that helped a lot.

And practice. Lots of practice.

[bikerfish1100]

the reason turning your chest helped with the turn is that it automatically puts pressure on your turn-side grip (try it, just sitting in your chair, arms extended in a riding position- see what your arms do), beginning a counter-steering procedure.

[HipGnosis]

gyro effect is not what makes the bike turn (in case you were thinking in that direction), it's what keeps it rolling upright.

in other words: The gyro effect stabilizes the bike.

[Jeets]

My biggest advice is for you to find a good mentor and or friend that rides.  I not only walked but rode in your shoes.  I get it!  I hated down hill turns as much as flies like sh$$!  Sorry, that was the best comparison I could come up with at the spur of the moment.

You got 3 pages of good advice but for now its too much for you to think about.  It will succeed to make yiu slower.  What does it mean to point your chest this way or weight this peg or spin around on your seat lol when you're scared as hell?

My advice is to get out and ride preferrably with the mentor I suggested above.  It's going to take time.  For now get out and ride.  Find some roads you've never been on or some scenery that's new to you.  Don't worry if your friend takes off through the twisty parts he will wait for you at the next turn.  Hell I loved watching good riders ride.  That's the plus for being in the back.

After some time has passed then what you read here will begin to make sense.


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[medjen]

I'm glad I came across this thread.

Had a VERY scary experience in traffic yesterday and wound up in a ditch the wrong side of the road due to not leaning with the bike into an off-camber right handed turn. I'm glad I'm alive to be able to look back and realize my mistake and my bike is none the worse for wear. Last night I had convinced myself that I just wasn't cut out to ride a bike and was ready to quit, but maybe what I need is a big slice of humble pie and more parking lot practice. It's not easy admitting that you're not as good at something as you thought...

[M.Brane]

I'm glad I came across this thread.

Had a VERY scary experience in traffic yesterday and wound up in a ditch the wrong side of the road due to not leaning with the bike into an off-camber right handed turn. I'm glad I'm alive to be able to look back and realize my mistake and my bike is none the worse for wear. Last night I had convinced myself that I just wasn't cut out to ride a bike and was ready to quit, but maybe what I need is a big slice of humble pie and more parking lot practice. It's not easy admitting that you're not as good at something as you thought...

 In an off camber turn you want to lean more than the bike. Get your ass off the seat, and kiss that mirror.

[medjen]

 In an off camber turn you want to lean more than the bike. Get your ass off the seat, and kiss that mirror.

Yeah. I did the opposite of that.  

But, I spent two hours doing parking lot practice this morning, so all is not lost.

[coucours grad]

With all of the advise your gonna recieve I only want to stress one thing......





    Ride your ride at your pace. Do alot of riding and I mean ALOT....You'll get good at it with time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8M_7fBR63Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFm3honeTQo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLgmlZQg2XM&feature=related

Take your time, ride YOUR ride....Avoid traffic for awhile and it will come too you.

[Fun Dog]

I wouldn't worry about it.  I think your fear is perfectly normal.  Think about it.  You're about 2 feet off the ground with virtually no crash protection and no seat belt moving at 30 to 70 mph.  Who wouldn't be scared?

I'm not trying to be funny.  I'm serious.  Motorcycling can be a scary business.  I still get worried when I approach a corner at speed and I've been riding for 7 years now.  It's natural.

It's not people like you who worry me.  It's people without fear who tend to push the limits and eventually get hurt.  You will progress at your own pace and everything will turn out fine.  You may one day be comfortable at speed through corners.

You may never be.

It doesn't really matter.

[Fun Dog]

The other thing that has helped was reading in one of the books mentioned, I can't remember which, as you begin to enter the curve, turn your chest in the direction you want to go, not just your head. And shift your weight to the inside peg. Not sure why but that helped a lot.

If you're looking for technique, this one tip also made everything much easier for me...particularly turning my torso towards the turn.

[highside]

Proficient Motorcycling has really good break down of how to turn, and why.  It helped me out alot when I was getting started.

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Motorcycling-Ultimate-Guide-Riding/dp/1933958359/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335797917&sr=1-1

A big +1 to that. This book does a great job of clarifying concepts for someone who has completed the MSF (very) BRC. There are some fantastic drills that will make it all seem pretty easy once you get it dialed it.

[allwedrrider]

I have a very difficult time turning at anywhere approaching speed . . . I nearly failed the MSF basic course due to the 'fast curve' portion of the test

Even now after a couple months turns still seem definitely scary and bad for my health unless I slow down to about 10mph below the 'speed recommended by the yellow warning signs', which means I go through turns on 2 wheels even slower than I go through them on 4 wheels (I usually find my 'this is safe and not traumatic' threshhold about 5 mph below the speed on the sign when driving my truck)

Anyway, I know motorcycles can actually turn at speeds . . . . so what is the proper way to go about getting better at turning (and going through curves in the roads also, even if are not turns)

a slightly different perspective. i think thats perfectly fine and faaaaar better than being uncomfortable and risking it. as you put on miles, the confidence will come! go half a mile or just one mile over your comfort zone a few times. then increase that over time. confidence will come. just ride safe and within your limits - no need to feel pressured to ride faster

[highside]

I just want to emphasize the importance of learning proper technique at this point in your riding career. Lots of guys will tell you to rely on your instincts, but human evolution does not provide you with natural motorcycle riding instincts. Your instincts are what cause target-fixation and panic response, probably the two greatest causes a motorcycle crashes in the world. You need to train proper technique so that it OVERRIDES your instincts and feels natural.

A LOT of riders make the mistake of getting past the hurdles of BASIC riding and assume that some ingrained natural skill will take over from there. This is where bad habits become practice and where a lot of riding myths come from (like layin' her down).

This point in your learning is MORE important than the total noob stage because now you have just enough confidence to get yourself killed instead of just having harmless parking lot drops. I urge you to attend a track school or at least read a good technique manual like twist of the wrist or proficient motorcycling, and PRACTICE the drills until they are boring and then keep doing them every now and then to keep them fresh.  

[scotteroni]

Borrow a bicycle, small traffic cones and practice doing figure eights in a big parking lot till u get real good at doing it fast and in tight circles.  Then borrow a dirt bike and do the same thing experimenting with how the bike reacts to braking, slipping the clutch and giving it throttle or letting off.  work up to doing it on your bike.  It may be your bike is too big or heavy for you to feel comfortable on right now.

Things to remember:

Reduce speed before entering corners, avoid abrupt braking ,downshifting and throttle in a corner. All your inputs need to be smooth and sychronized.
Increase throttle half way out of corner. If your bike feels like it going too slow and fall into the corner, increase throttle gradually and the bike will straighten up.
make sure your rpms are high enough and your in a low enough gear to give you enough power thru the curve. unless your riding a v twin your rpms should be above 3k. Keep practicing and youll be successful.

[scotteroni]

Borrow a bicycle, small traffic cones and practice doing figure eights in a big parking lot till u get real good at doing it fast and in tight circles.  Then borrow a dirt bike and do the same thing experimenting with how the bike reacts to braking, slipping the clutch and giving it throttle or letting off.  work up to doing it on your bike.  It may be your bike is too big or heavy for you to feel comfortable on right now.

Things to remember:

Reduce speed before entering corners, avoid abrupt braking ,downshifting and throttle in a corner. All your inputs need to be smooth and sychronized.
Increase throttle half way out of corner. If your bike feels like it going too slow and fall into the corner, increase throttle gradually and the bike will straighten up.
make sure your rpms are high enough and your in a low enough gear to give you enough power thru the curve. unless your riding a v twin your rpms should be above 3k. Keep practicing and youll be successful.

[Cablebandit]

 . . . I nearly failed the MSF basic course due to the 'fast curve' portion of the test

I'm always amused by these type of statements.  One portion of the test will not fail you.  Not even close, unless you drop the bike.