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« on: May 05, 2012, 01:30:47 AM »

Anyone out there having issues with their 1050 Engine, whether it's a Sprint, Speed Triple, or Tiger.

I remember once upon a time reading about DNA having issues... don't remember if it was with a 1050 or 955 engine.

I'm having one issue again for the second time... however before I unload, I wanted to see what others are experiencing.
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 06:28:44 AM »

Whats the issue? My 08' Sprint was rock solid and the only issue for me was the sticking clutch plates that was easily solved.
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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 07:37:25 AM »

I've found the triples to be great-what's the problem?
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2012, 08:40:59 AM »

I had an '08 Sprint ST for 11000 miles, and currently a Speed Triple for 5000 miles. No major issues, engine or otherwise, with either of them.
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2012, 08:59:56 AM »

Not a 1050, but I've had a 2003 Sprint St 955 since 2006 and had zero problems in over 20,000 miles.
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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2012, 03:28:40 PM »

those are some low miles....

My 2008 Sprint ST had all 3 Pistons & Rings fail @ 39K Miles. The bike was in the shop like clockwork for all of the preventative schedule maintenance. Every time I'd picked it up I would ask if there was any issues discovered that I should be aware of. The reply was nope, all looks great. That shop went out of business right around the 32K mile mark. I did my next schedule oil change @ 36K miles. 3K miles later the bike is smoking worse the anyone’s house on fire.  

I took the bike into another local Triumph Dealer since the bike was still under warranty. They repaired & broke it in on the Dyno for me. I started checking the oil every other week to find it burning 1 Qt every 1000 Miles. 11K miles later the bike starts smoking again. I have yet to find the time to break down the engine to repair. Pulled the plugs to find 1 all black with oil, the 2nd only half covered, the 3rd looked corroded.

Went back to the dealer to verify the work that was performed. The reply was we only replaced the Pistons & Rings for they were covered under warranty. I asked if they bothered to find out why they were shot. Reply: “Nope, Compression & Leak Test found one bad piston. Once we pulled the parts discovered the other two were shot as well, so we replaced them and that’s all.”

I asked wouldn’t it had made sense to try to figure out what was causing the issue. Their reply was it was not covered under warranty to figure that out. Needless to say I will not be taking the Sprint back to them for repair.

A buddy of mine is going to help me rebuild the engine. I can guarantee you I will not be using Triumph’s Pistons & Rings this time around. My buddy has recommended doing a complete rebuild. I’d looked online for possible purchasing a used engine. But then I would not know what I am getting. If the engine goes again after this rebuild I will be having s Sprint BBQ.

I know of a few other riders here locally that are having the 1 qt of oil per 1000 miles or worse issue as well, guys that I ride with. I have read online about the Tiger 1050’s having the same issue, all being engines with 35K miles are more on the clock. Sure I use to be one of those guys that thought my Sprint was rocked solid… however at that time I was one of the guys will low miles on the clock.

 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 03:31:44 PM by yotes65 » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 06:22:07 PM »

Shame. I have had only three triples. Not one failed and the highest mileage was over 100k
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 03:39:59 AM »

What octane fuel are you in the habit of using?

I too have seen internerd reports of similar failures in Tiger 1050's, but only from the USA & only from owners in the habit of using lower octane fuel than Triumph USA stipulates. It is worth keeping in mind that US fuel has a reputation for variable quality and a unique octane rating system, like for every other form of measurement   so Triumph USA's fuel octane recommendations are the ones to follow. http://hondaswap.com/reference-materials/us-octane-vs-other-countries-octane-ratings-59435/

From what I remember the damage comes from detonation, as opposed to the odd bout of "pinging," damaging piston rings, with subsequent damage to both pistons & cylinder walls. Your symptoms of the engine being healthy, then burning oil heavily with compression loss plus the replacement of pistons and rings not fixing the oil burning issue fits the pattern.

It is worth noting that Motorrad Magazine in Germany does complete stripdown tests on its long term bikes at 50,000km, about 32,000 of your funny feudal distance measures.  Their 2006 Sprint St 1050 came through with flying colours with the least engine wear of all their long term bikes, including that years BMW testbike.

Goodluck, but it sounds like a re-bore or new cylinders to me..
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« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 10:09:04 AM »

WHile octane could be a consideration, the US equivalent that matches Triumphs requirement is 89 octane, not 91 or 92.

Triumph did have a known batch of bad pistons in 2008-2009, so its entirely possible your bike would fall within that VIN range.
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« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 10:20:08 AM »

my Tiger 1050 (close to 100K miles) has been a brick, but I HAVE heard of the pistons/rings issues some had, as well as a large number of folks who had detonation problems (which seemed to be unaffected by fuel choice) . . .

if the rings and pistons were replaced, at the very least, the cylinder (liners) shoulda been miked . . . .. .

the only wide spread issue I know of is the piston/ring deal . . . . not much help, I know . . . .
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« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 04:12:16 PM »


While octane could be a consideration, the US equivalent that matches Triumphs requirement is 89 octane, not 91 or 92.

Triumph did have a known batch of bad pistons in 2008-2009, so its entirely possible your bike would fall within that VIN range.


Do you happen to know the site where I can check my VIN? I wonder if it is possible that the shop replaced bad Pistons/Rings with another set of bad Pistons/Rings...  
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 08:06:54 PM »


WHile octane could be a consideration, the US equivalent that matches Triumphs requirement is 89 octane, not 91 or 92.

Triumph did have a known batch of bad pistons in 2008-2009, so its entirely possible your bike would fall within that VIN range.


What does the USA spec owners manual or those funny stickers on the tank recommend. It may be possible that with a different fuel map tune for USA emissions standards the fuel required is something different than what is a direct translation of the UK spec manual octane rating. Worth checking I would have thought but I do not have a USA version of the owners handbook.
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 08:11:02 PM »




Do you happen to know the site where I can check my VIN? I wonder if it is possible that the shop replaced bad Pistons/Rings with another set of bad Pistons/Rings...  


Clutching at straws here I think... If the rings cracked/snapped the first time around scoring the cylinders & fritzing the pistons then if they put in good or bad pistons it would make no difference.

Any answer on which octane fuel you are in the habit of using?
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2012, 03:16:59 AM »




Clutching at straws here I think... If the rings cracked/snapped the first time around scoring the cylinders & fritzing the pistons then if they put in good or bad pistons it would make no difference.

Any answer on which octane fuel you are in the habit of using?


I use 92 Octane where I can get it which is 98% of the gas stations I stop at....
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 11:12:32 PM »

33k miles so far and the only major problem I've had was the crankshaft position sensor going bad at around 25k miles.  Otherwise, it's been perfect.
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2012, 01:02:34 PM »

My riding bud's '08 Sprint ST has 78,000 and some odd miles on it now since new. No problems with the motor, I've ridden it and it's a sweet little bike.
Only problems he's had were a few electrical gremlins here and there, a burned up rectifier/VR. He loves the bike.

Electrical system seems to be pretty sensitive on the bike.
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2012, 01:54:08 PM »


my Tiger 1050 (close to 100K miles) has been a brick, but I HAVE heard of the pistons/rings issues some had, as well as a large number of folks who had detonation problems (which seemed to be unaffected by fuel choice) . . .

if the rings and pistons were replaced, at the very least, the cylinder (liners) shoulda been miked . . . .. .

the only wide spread issue I know of is the piston/ring deal . . . . not much help, I know . . . .

I heard the same thing over on the Tiger1050 site and maybe the TriumphRat site.  IIRC there was a lot of talk about detonation, but I didn't buy most of what was being said.  What I did think was valid was that Triumph got a bad batch of rings which failed.
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2012, 09:08:26 PM »



I heard the same thing over on the Tiger1050 site and maybe the TriumphRat site.  IIRC there was a lot of talk about detonation, but I didn't buy most of what was being said.  What I did think was valid was that Triumph got a bad batch of rings which failed.


"Didn't buy" means disagree or postponed buying a 1050? I doubt it is as simple as a "bad batch" as the issue seems primarily restricted to tiger 1050's sold in North America. The engines themselves are not built in batches specific to end markets so the spec differences between markets are primarily in the EMS & fuel injection, if it was just a "bad-batch of rings" this would show as a universal trend, not just NA bikes. Why this cluster effect of similar failures among NA Tiger 1050 owners? Allow me to speculate, if you please.

- NA has unique emissions regulations requiring unique EMS & FI settings. This can be easily seen by the preponderance of "NA tunes" separate from the "UK, Europe & Australia tunes" available through tuneboy & dealer codes.
- NA has unique fuel standards compared to UK/Europe.

Nothing new here you may say & you would be right. It is my opinion that Triumph had to push the NA tune for the 1050 into a very lean & marginal situation to meet NA regulations. Possibly they should have done more to adapt the to the US market. Why didn't they? Cost. By world standards the USA has impossibly cheap bike prices.  2012 Tiger 1050SE MRSP in US dollars - US = $13,400 UK $14,400 Germany (big tiger 1050 market) $16,500 Australia $ 16,900. The flip side of cheap prices combined with unique regs is corner cutting by OEM's for NA specs & Triumph are not alone in this.

Now for the fun bit. firedevil Why would this issue affect in the great part Tiger 1050 owners in NA given that 1050 engine is in the lowest state of tune in this application & all the above points are common to the Speed Triple, Sprint ST & the Tiger 1050.  I put it down to the type of rider who are attracted to each bike.  In very broad brush strokes Speed triple owners are likely to have a "performance exhaust & tune for power not economy" mindset & ride accordingly. Even though the street fighter mindset may not on the surface be the best for long term reliability such mods take the 1050 away from the lean & mean edge of the OEM tune.

 Again in broad brushstrokes Tiger riders seem attracted to the promise of extra comfort of a "broomstick up the freckle" riding position & from my experience on Tiger1050.com spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing about screens, peg lowering kits & bar risers in an effort to create the ultimate 2-wheeled orthopaedic lounge. I suspect this type of rider has an unhealthy (for the engine) obsession with low-end torque & low-rev roll on power coupled with a surprisingly obstinate desire to run the cheapest fuel available.This last point was surprisingly apparent when the broken ring debates were in full swing on that forum.

Time to put the glass of red down & head off to bed. couch Hope this was food for thought.    

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« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2012, 09:26:21 AM »




"Didn't buy" means disagree or postponed buying a 1050? I doubt it is as simple as a "bad batch" as the issue seems primarily restricted to tiger 1050's sold in North America. The engines themselves are not built in batches specific to end markets so the spec differences between markets are primarily in the EMS & fuel injection, if it was just a "bad-batch of rings" this would show as a universal trend, not just NA bikes. Why this cluster effect of similar failures among NA Tiger 1050 owners? Allow me to speculate, if you please.

- NA has unique emissions regulations requiring unique EMS & FI settings. This can be easily seen by the preponderance of "NA tunes" separate from the "UK, Europe & Australia tunes" available through tuneboy & dealer codes.
- NA has unique fuel standards compared to UK/Europe.

Nothing new here you may say & you would be right. It is my opinion that Triumph had to push the NA tune for the 1050 into a very lean & marginal situation to meet NA regulations. Possibly they should have done more to adapt the to the US market. Why didn't they? Cost. By world standards the USA has impossibly cheap bike prices.  2012 Tiger 1050SE MRSP in US dollars - US = $13,400 UK $14,400 Germany (big tiger 1050 market) $16,500 Australia $ 16,900. The flip side of cheap prices combined with unique regs is corner cutting by OEM's for NA specs & Triumph are not alone in this.

Now for the fun bit. firedevil Why would this issue affect in the great part Tiger 1050 owners in NA given that 1050 engine is in the lowest state of tune in this application & all the above points are common to the Speed Triple, Sprint ST & the Tiger 1050.  I put it down to the type of rider who are attracted to each bike.  In very broad brush strokes Speed triple owners are likely to have a "performance exhaust & tune for power not economy" mindset & ride accordingly. Even though the street fighter mindset may not on the surface be the best for long term reliability such mods take the 1050 away from the lean & mean edge of the OEM tune.

 Again in broad brushstrokes Tiger riders seem attracted to the promise of extra comfort of a "broomstick up the freckle" riding position & from my experience on Tiger1050.com spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing about screens, peg lowering kits & bar risers in an effort to create the ultimate 2-wheeled orthopaedic lounge. I suspect this type of rider has an unhealthy (for the engine) obsession with low-end torque & low-rev roll on power coupled with a surprisingly obstinate desire to run the cheapest fuel available.This last point was surprisingly apparent when the broken ring debates were in full swing on that forum.

Time to put the glass of red down & head off to bed. couch Hope this was food for thought.    

Did not buy means that I did not believe a bunch speculators on several websites attributing a problem they had absolutely no knowledge about.  Clear enough????   In those threads and you can go to those sites and research it yourself, a couple of Triumph service managers responded and narrowed the problem to certain years or even VIN's IIRC.  Oh, and by the by, those guys you are talking about running cheap ass fuel during the pistons problems were primarily in OZ and South Africa, not the US.   I know because I conversed with them quite a bit on that exact topic.  They kept trying to eliminate knock (detonation) while running grades far lower than what Triumph recommended.  That is a totally different subject than the ring issue.   As far as your speculation on batches, this would not be the first time Triumph bought bad batches of components.  I refer you to the first brake MC's on 1050 ST's or caliper pistons on 675's.

Now for you last search for fire.  Motorcyclists have been personalizing their bikes since Fred and Barnie rolled down to quarry.  It AIN'T just Tigers.  Same with that chase for the bleeding edge of every possible bit of power or performance.  It's like complaining about the sun rising in the East.
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 12:31:58 AM »



Did not buy means that I did not believe a bunch speculators on several websites attributing a problem they had absolutely no knowledge about.  Clear enough????  

Actually it wasn't, that's why I asked. Thats the problem with colloquial expressions on the world wide web, what may be clear to you may be ambiguous to others.

 
In those threads and you can go to those sites and research it yourself, a couple of Triumph service managers responded and narrowed the problem to certain years or even VIN's IIRC.  Oh, and by the by, those guys you are talking about running cheap ass fuel during the pistons problems were primarily in OZ and South Africa, not the US.   I know because I conversed with them quite a bit on that exact topic.  They kept trying to eliminate knock (detonation) while running grades far lower than what Triumph recommended.  That is a totally different subject than the ring issue.   As far as your speculation on batches, this would not be the first time Triumph bought bad batches of components.  I refer you to the first brake MC's on 1050 ST's or caliper pistons on 675's.

Now for you last search for fire.  Motorcyclists have been personalizing their bikes since Fred and Barnie rolled down to quarry.  It AIN'T just Tigers.  Same with that chase for the bleeding edge of every possible bit of power or performance.  It's like complaining about the sun rising in the East.


Yeah I am familiar with those threads on those sites... as I mentioned.  Our respective assessment of the contents differs, that's all.  The most unfortunate part of all this is that when the OP had his first episode of ring/piston failure the shop had an attack of the jobsworths (there's a return colloquialism for your troubles) and failed to check the condition of the barrels. If I was him I would be mighty annoyed at that workshop.

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