Anyone with 1050 Engine Issues?

[bomber]

This conversation was repeated many times on Tiger 1050 -- oddly, with the same "you NA riders are a bunch of old people" tone from a poster from OZ (who, if memory serves, turned out to be attempting to tout the services of a particular performance shop).

Forming strong opinions on extremely limited data can lead to mistaken assumptions.

I know of two North American Tigers (riding buddies) that suffered the same piston problems, and both were ridden in a very enthusiastic manner, indeed . . .

I'm also familiar with Tiger owners from Greece, Norway, the UK and Brazil -- same enthusiastic riding, same piston failures . . .

Limited slang to spare YOU troubles.

[littlefield]

I'm on my third 1050. Other than the 07 Tiger using some oil (quart/3000 miles) they've been trouble free. For me, the experience of riding a 1050; sound, feel, response, fueling; is just awesome.

[Air_Bob1]

My '08 Sprint's center piston had a failure at 24K miles. but I don't know how long the piston had been broken. The dealer replaced the center piston, rings, and bore under warranty. I got it in there just before the warranty expired for another problem that led them to finding the broken piston. The bike was in the shop for 7 weeks during the summer. :-(

It gets ridden aggressivley and the oil was changed regularly using Mobil 1. It now rides quite strong with almost 40K miles on it. Uses very little oil.

[yotes65]

My '08 Sprint's center piston had a failure at 24K miles. but I don't know how long the piston had been broken. The dealer replaced the center piston, rings, and bore under warranty. I got it in there just before the warranty expired for another problem that led them to finding the broken piston. The bike was in the shop for 7 weeks during the summer. :-(

It gets ridden aggressively and the oil was changed regularly using Mobil 1. It now rides quite strong with almost 40K miles on it. Uses very little oil.

That's great news that it is still going strong.... my '08 ST is still sitting in the garage covered up waiting for me to find the time to work on it... looking like May 2013 before I can get to it.  

[sprint_st]

This conversation was repeated many times on Tiger 1050 -- oddly, with the same "you NA riders are a bunch of old people" tone from a poster from OZ (who, if memory serves, turned out to be attempting to tout the services of a particular performance shop).

I know of two North American Tigers (riding buddies) that suffered the same piston problems, and both were ridden in a very enthusiastic manner, indeed . . .

I'm also familiar with Tiger owners from Greece, Norway, the UK and Brazil -- same enthusiastic riding, same piston failures . . .

I'm with ya on this, Bomber. NA ride just as hard as any other region of the planet; however if you not only look at the posts on the piston issues, but combine them with information about ecu maps and gas you may come to the conclusion that I came to -- don't compare NA bikes to Brazil, OZ and SA.  There have been numerous discussions on octane and maps that are adjusted for alcohol.  What does that have to do with piston rings????   Detonation that's what and its affect on things like rings and pistons.  Detonation has been "one" of the possible events  associated with ring failure.  The boyz from Brazil, OZ and SA, if you read the posts, tend to complain about "ping" while running 87 octane.  Connect the dots.

[Stripes]

My friends '06 Sprint ST w/ 50,000+ miles on it had engine problems too. Now the only problem is getting the parts from his local Triumph dealer!

 

Good luck to you my friend.

[yotes65]

Well today I decided to pull the pistons to see if they were the reason my engine was smoking (again).

My Engine was rebuilt by GoAZ Motorcycles in Scottsdale, AZ in November 2010 with 39K miles on it. All 3 Pistons & Rings were shot. Thankfully the Engine was rebuilt under warranty.

11K miles later and the bike starts smoking again. I decided to park it in my garage until I could find the time to break the engine down with the help of a friend. Below are the photo's of the stock OEM Triumph Piston's. What a relief it was to see the same issue... all 3 Pistons & Rings were shot... freaking AWESOME!!!!  







Piston #1:


Piston #2:


Piston #3:


Who thinks I should replace these with another set of Triumph OEM Pistons.....

   Not I    

[SprintRSrider]

So did your original three pistons fail in exactly this manner?  We're the sleeves replaced with the pistons?  I looked through you post again and didn't see them listed as replaced.  So, you've got three pistons and they have failed in exactly the same manner.  Highly unlikely that the pistons are to blame here, this failure indicates that something is affecting all three cylinders equally.  Fuel quality and fueling would be the most likely suspect in my opinion.  Or the shop that did the work beat the shit out of them when they were installing the sleeves...  In reference to Stripes post, I just finished replacing the head gasket and cleaning a crapload of carbon out of the combustion chambers .  The engine runs great and is still as smooth and powerful as its ever been.  Hope you find the cause of the failure and your repair works out for you.

[sprint_st]

So did your original three pistons fail in exactly this manner?  We're the sleeves replaced with the pistons?  I looked through you post again and didn't see them listed as replaced.  So, you've got three pistons and they have failed in exactly the same manner.  Highly unlikely that the pistons are to blame here, this failure indicates that something is affecting all three cylinders equally.  Fuel quality and fueling would be the most likely suspect in my opinion.  Or the shop that did the work beat the shit out of them when they were installing the sleeves...  In reference to Stripes post, I just finished replacing the head gasket and cleaning a crapload of carbon out of the combustion chambers .  The engine runs great and is still as smooth and powerful as its ever been.  Hope you find the cause of the failure and your repair works out for you.

I think you are getting at the problem.  If I would have kept any of my triples, it was my plan to replace pistons, rings and sleeves at some point.  I've always had a funny feeling about how long those nikasil coated alloy sleeves.

[Windblown]

All three pistons toast. Ouch! With the piston tops carefully cleaned it should be possible to determine if detonation was the issue as pock marks on all three pistons should be evident. A professional engine builder (versus the average dealership wrench, no offense to them intended) should be able to determine the cause. If not detonation then perhaps insufficient end gap on the rings?  

I owned a 1050 Sprint from new and sold it with 12,xxx miles on it. Like most, I didn't have any engine issues with it during that short amount of time no should I have.

However... I know 4 other 1050 engine owners locally with higher miles. 1 has been gently ridden and I doubt it's ever seen the north side of 8000rpm. It's now over 60k and runs fine. The other three were ridden much harder and all three engines let go before the 50k mark.  Too small of a sampling to draw any hard conclusions from but enough to make me suspect these are not motors that can be seriously flogged regularly and be expected to go 100k.

[SprintRSrider]

I think you are getting at the problem.  If I would have kept any of my triples, it was my plan to replace pistons, rings and sleeves at some point.  I've always had a funny feeling about how long those nikasil coated alloy sleeves.

1050 engines didn't use nikasil coated sleeves.  They used standard steel sleeves like the non-Daytona 955, 885, 1200 engines previously did.  Only the TT600, D600/D650, D675, T595/D955 and oddly the R3 use a plated aluminum cylinder.  The Sleeve is cast aluminum and Gilnasil coated.  Gilnasil is essentially nikasil, but it's done by a guy named Gil and his company.  Same, same, but different.  I've seen a lot of these engines, gen 1 and 2 955i engines and 1050 engines go well over 50k+ with no engine problems whatsoever, and a few here and there that are problematic for no obvious reason.  Is it as simple and out of our control as 'luck of the draw'?  The Japanese, Germans and Italians have been using coated alloy sleeves with no consistent issues for years, I don't see them as being a problem overall.  Now on the other hand, if the fitting tolerances aren't correct, obviously it will cause all sorts of issue.  Why only 11k on the second set of pistons and rings?  I think the obvious answer is that something changed the running condition of the engine between purchase and the first 39k miles but what?  What do the bottoms/insides of the piston crowns look like?  Are the piston oil cooling jets clogged or not receiving oil?  Are the injectors clogged or sticking and loading the cylinders with raw un-atomized  fuel?, not likely i don't believe, but not impossible.

[DNA]

Ok time to chime in as i was invoked by the OP early on.

I had a 955 that consumed the over a quart of out in the forst 1000 miles.  AT 2000 miles and another quart of 2 the dealer rebuilt the top end - bike out for 6 weeks.  by 6000 miles and 6-8 more quarter of oil another dealer tore it down (still under warrenty) and replaced all 3 cylendard adn pistone as well.

I worked well and I used it for LD rallies and such for another 36000mi

An oil leal her and there adn a few other assorted issues until aound 50K mi - fog city.

If I recal correctly, Cyl #1 shot.  Sourced a replacement motor - swapped it out adn sld bike to new owner.

I  loved the sprint - but am convinced I had a lemon.  

It happens.

Would I get another one?

Yes - but used (silly depreciation)- carefully inspected and as a #2 or #3 bike.

[yotes65]

Here's an Update on my engine issues....

A few friends had referred me to CP-Carillo to have new pistons created for my Sprint ST. I had been speaking with them quite a bit and sent a complete history & photos of the issue to see what options I might have. One thing I liked about CP-Carillo is instead of just taking my money right away and selling me a new set of pistons, they wanted a shop that performed all of their Triumph work to take a look at my case to see if there was maybe a bigger problem with my engine than just faulty pistons.

I started working with Charlie of Triples Rule & Streetmaster. He had asked if I could send him a few parts so they could investigate the issue and offer an opinion of what the issue may be & how we should proceed. After I started to break down the engine I ended up battling Bronchitis for 3 weeks which delayed getting the parts shipped off. I shipped everything this past Saturday to Charlie. Here is the latest communication that I received yesterday:

Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 8:26 PM
To: martyn@s13.com
Subject: Re: Shipped Items....

Hello Marty,
The parts arrived today. We took a long close look at the pistons. We see no evidence of detonation which was our first concern. The long story short is that the pistons are defective. I have set up a meeting with CP on Tuesday of next week for their in depth opinion. We saw no problems caused by the rings. There is some evidence of scraping on the cylinder walls but, that would be expected with the broken rings. The cylinder head also show no evidence of detonation. The ports do look like they can be improved. We'll put the head on the flow bench either by Friday or the first of the week for a baseline. Next we'll take the head apart and check for excessive wear on the valve stems and guides. So, I'll keep you informed as we make progress and learn more.


Cheers
Charlie  

I guess it wasn't a detonation issue as so many had brought up here.  


I am getting closer to having my Sprint ST running and back on the road again. Although I have my Daytona 955i to ride, I can honestly say that I miss riding the Sprint. Finally getting the bike repaired & on the road again would be a wonderful x-mas gift to myself!  

[GRN]

I put 38K pretty spirited miles on an '06 1050, no problems, no noticeable oil consumption changing at 5K intervals. Sorry to hear of your problem, sux to have shit like that rock your confidence in a bike you like... been there. Good luck.