Tossing the cruiser

[Jalen]

I'm glad to have found an active forum where members who share a common interest help one another.

I'm a 18 year old rider in Atlanta. I've been on a v-star 650 for 8 months now and am tired of being on a cruiser so i'm getting ready to sell it. The bikes i am currently looking at are the yamaha fz6, suzuki sv650, suzuki gsx650, ninja 650r, or the yzf600(i hope i spelled all those right). I'm pretty low on cash so i'm looking for something 3500 or below after i sell the v-star.

I just have a couple of concerns

I'd like to get a bike that i can learn how to work on. I have very few mechanical skills developed. All i can do is change the oil and filter. But i'm beginning to aquire a few tools(A kobalt wrench set and some allen keys thus far) and hope to be able to save some money by doing my own work. Therefore i'd like the bike i buy to be very user friendly in this regard. I understand most of the bikes with a more recent model are fuel injected so i don't know how easy it is to get in to the engine or add aftermarket parts with this. So i'm hoping some one can enlighten me on if i should go fuel injected or carburated

Also i am wondering since the ninja and sv650 only contain 2 cylinders, if they are simpler to adjust the valves and install new spark plugs. Simple things like this are affecting my decision about a bike. But really it will mostly come down to price.



I'm hoping someone can help me with this.
THanks!

[Skee]

Also i am wondering since the ninja and sv650 only contain 2 cylinders, if they are simpler...

Can't say for sure how much less complicated they are, but 2 cylinders strikes me as less "work" (and parts $s) than 4.

Plus you get more engine braking from a two.  Good choice for a starter.


PS Are you sure you meant STN when you said "I'm glad to have found an active forum where members who share a common interest help one another."?  Stick around for awhile.  And welcome to the club.

[Jalen]

And i've been reading inline 4s have less vibration but a 2 cylinder can have as much torque as a 4 cylinder. This doesn't make sense to me. I would think since there are more pistons driving the crankshaft, there would be more torque.

But anyhow its not all about power for me right now. I just need another set of two wheels and maintenance costs and time are important to me. I spoke to a dealer and asked about an sv650 and he told me it would generate just about as much power as my vstar 650. I walked out of there disappointed. I'm not sure if he was talking about the earlier models or the late models. Not sure if the engineering has changed at all. The ninja 650r has an inline 2 but i cant find a lightly used one for less than 4,000$.


And i didn't mean to come here just to drop a question and leave if thats what you meant. I'd like to learn as much as possible and eventually share some experiences on two wheels.


Jalen

[Fourstring]

The Ninja 650 has a paralell twin, so it's only one set of heads. Easy.

I've found it to be a gem of a bike and almost work-free, even after some major get-offs.  It'll cruise all day long smoothly at 85 if that's important to you.

Welcome to the club!

[Jalen]

The Ninja 650 has a paralell twin, so it's only one set of heads. Easy.

I've found it to be a gem of a bike and almost work-free, even after some major get-offs.  It'll cruise all day long smoothly at 85 if that's important to you.

Welcome to the club!

Thank you friend. I like the style of the ninja even though it is not a naked bike. I am only disappointed in the price. The cheapest i have found was one for around 3500 and it had scratches on the side of the fairings from being dropped.  Can somebody enlighten me on how a fuel injected bike takes to being tampered with. For some reason i have the notion that there are sensors in every part of the intake and exhaust system of the bike therefore you can't change pipes,mufflers,or whatever i may find without upsetting the computer in the injection system. Please excuse my ignorance. The only resource i have had for understanding engines and motorcycles is theb book Modern Motorcycle Technology by Massimo Clarke. IT is a good reference but i am still confused on certain parts of the engine. Especially transmission and fuel injection

[falcofred]

Your dealer is wrong on thr power between you cruisier and an SV650. The SV will run circles around that cruiser of yours.
Both the Ninja 650 and newer SV650's are fuel injected. I had a 99 SV that was carborated. I think the SV went fuel injection in 04.
With fuel injection some exhast modifications will require fuel injection tweaking to the fuel injection as exhasut modifications will make the bike run leaner than stock exhaust. This is true with fuel injection or carborated bikes.
The new bikes are set up to run very lean in order to meet EPA emission requirments. Many install O2 sensor devices to fool the fuel injection or Power Comanders or othe fuel injection devices to enrichen the fuel mixture.
Both the Ninja and SV 650s are good bikes. The addition of a a slip on exhaust canister to make the bike sound a little better probably won't require any modification to the fuel injection.
The book you are reading is good, but is aimed at motorcyclists trying to get the very best performance and most power from their motorcycles.
As you stated you are just beginning into motorcycles, you are making a positive move getting off that cruiser. You'll be happy with either the Ninja or the SV 650. The SV has  been in production a little longer so they'll be more and cheaper used ones available.
A good source for either bike is to find the internet owners group for each model. I was a member of  http://www.svrider.com/forum/ while I ownened my SV, ther is an other site for the Ninja Im sure each site will have a load of information on both models and a  market place section for used bikes.

[JavaD]

If you're technology literate, there's scan and diagnostic software you can get.  Just google motorcycle ecu tuning software and there's plenty to choose from.  But it is a "buyer-beware" environment so you gotta educate yourself on the software and what it does/does not do.

[birdrunner]

Me thinks you worry too much.

All the bikes you've mentioned can be considered extremely reliable.   I double you'll have to do anything but change the filters, oil, and perhaps adjust valves.   All considered normal maintenance.   (BTW, at 55,000 miles my bike didn't neet  any valve adjustment)

The odds that you'd have to crack the engine are very low.  Suspension work is more likely  (seals etc), or perhaps a clutch.  These things are basic, and there aren't any differences between the models you're looking at.

BTW,   good choice on bike models,  you'll love any of them.

Just find a bike that hasn't been abused,  and has been well maintained.   This type of machine can easily got 100,000 miles before they need real work.  (There's someone on this forum with an CBR600f3 with 200,000 miles on it,   never cracked the case.

[Jalen]

I think i am worrying too much as well. I guess that comes with being very under educated on these things. I'm glad to know all these bikes i have listed are reliable machines and i will choose one depending on price and body style(I particularly like the naked bikes like the sv650). Since i narrowed it down and am going to choose from one I just wanted to know if there is anything wrong with buying a bike model of 2000-2004 with around 20,000 miles on it?

This is off topic but i'd like to know. Falcofred says that the suzuki sv650 will run circles around the vstar 650. As i said i am a complete novice when it comes to understanding engines. Both bikes have an engine size of 650 cubic centimeters and are both designed with a v-twin engine. The sv is clearly lighter but what gives the suzuki more power than the vstar. And i'm referring to the early model sv650 that had a carburetor if that makes a difference.

[Cricket1]

Jalen-

Welcome to STN!

The reason the Ninja 650's twin engine makes more power than the V-Stars 650 twin engine comes down to a couple of reasons.

1. The Ninja has a 4 valve head vs 2 valves for the V-Star. More valves allows more air into the engine, so that makes more power.
2. The Ninja has a lighter crankshaft and other internal engine parts, allowing a much higher max rpm. Combined with the 4 valve head, gives more horsepower.
3. The Ninja is liquid cooled, vs aircooled for the V-Star. This allows tighter engine tolerances, which allows the engine to be "higher tuned" with higher compression, etc = more power.

Fuel Injection vs. carb has very little to do with the power output, more for emissions than anything else. (easier starting in cold weather with the FI)

[Jalen]

Hey thanks! And that would also apply to the sv650 i imagine since it has 8 valves and is liquid cooled. Thanks for the information. I overlooked this. I've already got a few people interested in buying my vstar so the quicker i sell it the quicker i can get on with a new bike. I think I've limited it down to the sv650. The gsxr and ninja are a bit too pricey for me(4000$ and up) and i really like the naked bike look. The fz6 is an inline 4 and for whatever reason i'm very against spending too much time and money on maintenance costs and 4 cylinders as opposed to two seems like overkill for my riding. Also the exhaust pipes under the seat have kind of turned me off. That probably doesn't make sense to anyone but me...but..
 
Looking for something with 15000 miles or less really and is mostly stock. What year(s) should i be looking at?I'm really just worried about trouble finding parts and maintenance costs for earlier models. I'm not looking to spend more than 3500 though.  Having some trouble finding a lot of them though. I guess people don't really like selling them. Especially here in Birmingham. I might have to travel back to Atlanta to get one.

[falcofred]

You'll be happy with an SV650, on the plus side, naked bikes are cheaper to insure than bikes with body work/fairings.

[JReazor]

A first gen SV (99-02) will do the job and leave you with change in your pocket. As an added bonus, when you decide to move on, you'll probably be able to turn it over at little or no loss.

[Cricket1]

A first gen SV (99-02) will do the job and leave you with change in your pocket. As an added bonus, when you decide to move on, you'll probably be able to turn it over at little or no loss.

Excellent recommendation. Make sure to get the plain/ naked SV, NOT the S model. It has a fairing and very low clip ons and high pegs. Not any where as good a bike for you as the more upright naked.

[Hambonee]

The Ninja 650 has a paralell twin, so it's only one set of heads. Easy.

I've found it to be a gem of a bike and almost work-free, even after some major get-offs.  It'll cruise all day long smoothly at 85 if that's important to you.

Welcome to the club!

God I loved my 650r and the 2012 version looks like they really put some effort into the bike.

Trust me when I say the little 650 can plain get up and go...It's manageable power for sure but it's way more than a cruiser like your V-star.

All I can say about mine was it was dead reliable, narrow and handled the twisties like nothing else, and had plenty of power. The only issue I had with it was being 6 foot 4. Yeah..bit of a tight squeeze on long rides but not overly bad.

The only issues with working on it is if you need to remove the fairings. To be safe that's a 2 person job so you don't ding up the plastics and it has no center stand so you need to buy a portable stand for it for chain maintenance or one or those tire rollers. Other than that easy maintenance.

Welcome to the club BTW

[garry]

Just a note about the SV650: it switched from carbs to fuel injection in 2003. That's the same year the frame tubes became angular instead of round. I don't recall what else was changed in the 2003 update.

[JReazor]

Just a note about the SV650: it switched from carbs to fuel injection in 2003. That's the same year the frame tubes became angular instead of round. I don't recall what else was changed in the 2003 update.

They added an oil cooler, changed the cam and added ABS as an option. I think that's about it other than cosmetic changes.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Pretty soon I can just move this entire thread to the Suzuki forum  

[Jalen]

I did a search on google. "Are suzuki sv650s rare" Found a thread at svforums. There are absolutely no sv650s for sale in my area.....Then i also read that they were discontinued after 2009. Hmmm maybe this should be moved to the suzuki forum  


On another note though. I was 17 when i got the vstar 650 and therefore it is in my moms name since she bought it for me. Now i'm 18 and trying to sell it myself although its under her name and she is in Atlanta while im here in Birmingham...... So im wondering what do i do? Sign it for her??

[kyzrex]

I have a FZ6, and love it, but ALL the bikes you listed would be good choices. All of them are fairly easy to work on and fairly cheap to buy and maintain.  But let me make a couple of recommendations.....

1st......wait until later this year to make the switch.  This is the worst time of year to buy a bike because of the higher demand and smaller number of bikes on the market.  When you get past mid- August people start thinking about selling and the later in the year it gets, the prices seem to come down

2nd.....if you are concerned about repair costs....simpler equals cheaper.  An air cooled or oil/air cooled bike may make less power, but no water pump, thermostat, radiator, and fan to worry about.  When comparing bikes, don't forget to check out valve adjustment interval requirements.  For example, the FZ6 recommendation is 26,000 miles, most bikes are much lower than that.  Also check out HOW the valves are adjusted.....shim over bucket type are much more complex, DOHC 4 cyl is going to more complex ( harder and more expensive) than a 2 cyl or SOHC engine.  Fuel injection is nice, but all the sensors and electronics on newer bikes would be more expensive to repair IF they break.

3rd....for ease of ownership and low price, check out a Honda Nighthawk from 1997-2005 or so, they are all the same bike during all those years.  Not the fasted, nor the best handling, but they are bulletproof bikes, with NO valve adjustments to do......hydraulic valves!  Oil/air cooled, basically just change the oil every 3000 miles and change the plugs at regular intervals as factory recommends, keep the chain adjusted and lubed, and go ride.

Good luck and welcome!

[Jalen]

kyzrex thank you for the reply. I've been told to wait till winter and late fall to buy a bike as it is cheaper to buy then. I am eager to get off this cruiser and also i will be leaving for army basic training sometime in the winter months. I think i will try hard just to find a good deal.

In regards to the nighthawk. I believe i have looked at this bike before. Is this referring to the cb750 or the nighthawk. I was thinking these names are used interchangeably. Also if i'm correct, i thought the bike was discontinued in 2002. I get worried about buying older models because of the difficulty in finding parts for the bike both aftermarket and stock in case something needs replacing. Should i be concerned with this?

[kyzrex]

The last generation nighthawk 750 which did have a model designation of cb750, made from 1996 to 2008, all as the same model.  They were not a big seller because everyone wanted a racer replica bike, so they can be hard to find.  However, when you do find one they usually are low mileage and well taken care of.  Earlier "nighthawks" were a different bike made in 650 and 700cc versions, and maybe even 450 and 550, i forget.

They also had a 250 nighthawk that was a single cyl and used quite a bit by MSF beginner rider courses.  

I bought one new in 1997 ( first new bike I ever had ) and would buy another one, just a great all-rounder IMO.

[Rattlehead]

..... I get worried about buying older models because of the difficulty in finding parts for the bike both aftermarket and stock in case something needs replacing. Should i be concerned with this?

In a word, no.
All of the bike mentioned in this thread have enjoyed LONG production runs and parts are readily available. Between the dealership, online retailers, and e-bay there is an ABUNDANT source of parts for older bikes out there.

Also, the SV650 has a bit of a cult following because it's not only a great streetbike, it's also is widely used in racing. Anything you could ever want is out there for it. It would be an excellent choice for a "next step up" bike. Careful though, twist the grip and it'll make your V-Star feel like it was dragging an anchor in comparison (your dealer was WAY off the mark on this).  

[jesse v]

I'm glad to have found an active forum where members who share a common interest help one another.

I'm a 18 year old rider in Atlanta. I've been on a v-star 650 for 8 months now and am tired of being on a cruiser so i'm getting ready to sell it. The bikes i am currently looking at are the yamaha fz6, suzuki sv650, suzuki gsx650, ninja 650r, or the yzf600(i hope i spelled all those right). I'm pretty low on cash so i'm looking for something 3500 or below after i sell the v-star.

I just have a couple of concerns

I'd like to get a bike that i can learn how to work on. I have very few mechanical skills developed. All i can do is change the oil and filter. But i'm beginning to aquire a few tools(A kobalt wrench set and some allen keys thus far) and hope to be able to save some money by doing my own work. Therefore i'd like the bike i buy to be very user friendly in this regard. I understand most of the bikes with a more recent model are fuel injected so i don't know how easy it is to get in to the engine or add aftermarket parts with this. So i'm hoping some one can enlighten me on if i should go fuel injected or carburated

Also i am wondering since the ninja and sv650 only contain 2 cylinders, if they are simpler to adjust the valves and install new spark plugs. Simple things like this are affecting my decision about a bike. But really it will mostly come down to price.



I'm hoping someone can help me with this.
THanks!

I have a similar "motorcycle testimony" to yours.  My first bike was a Suzuki Marauder 800 (cruiser), which I happily rode for 2.5 years.  But I soon found myself maxed out on the bike's limits, and I began to realize that (for me) motorcycling is a sport, not a "kick back and relax" kinda thing.  (And I'm defiantly not a "sporty" or jocky kinda guy... I'm a church music leader by profession.)

The fun (and art) of motorcycling is in turning, and a sport/naked/standard bike can turn better than a cruiser.

So, just over a year ago, I got an SV1000.  Love it love it love it.

Regarding the comparison between your Vstar 650 and the sv650... When looking at cruisers vs. sport/naked/standard bikes, the measuring stick is totally different.  A 250cc sporty will be far more capable than a 750 (or larger!) cruiser in terms of power, not to mention cornering capability.  That doesn't mean you should be scared of sport bikes, however.  A 650 twin is perfect for a beginner OR experienced rider, and won't get boring if you develop a desire for performance.

Regarding the twin vs I4 issue... This is quite dumbed down, but basically the engine size generates torque (acceleration), and the number of cylinders determines horsepower (top speed).  So, for example, when comparing a 1000cc twin such as my SV1000, with a 600cc I4 such as a GSXR600RR, the SV will accelerate faster but the GSXR will have a higher top speed.  (Over simplified, I know.)

So anyway... Welcome to the "sport" of motorcycling!  Cruisers?  Yeah, they make you look cool...

[Jalen]

Hey jesse man, thanks you explained that well. I havent sold the vstar yet. I guess no one wants a cruiser right now haha. But i've been looking. Here are a couple of ads i've been looking at. Any feedback would be great. I want a carburated bike because of maintenance costs but im open to EFI too.

http://bham.craigslist.org/mcd/3102178684.html

http://bham.craigslist.org/mcy/3101222798.html  Thats a badass looking bike to me. Low mileage too. If i could talk him down to 3200 i'd be good.

http://bham.craigslist.org/mcy/3092532238.html    This bike is like a 487 twin engine. How would it compare in performance with my vstar 650??


Thanks guys.

[Cricket1]

Jalen-

I'd pass on the Ninja 650- the rebuilt title will always haunt it. The SV650 looks to be the best of the three you listed. (ALso, notice the neighborhood its in)

The 500 is a decent bike and the price is reasonable, but the SV650 is much better and with more aftermarket support, it would be worth spending the money on the SV.  Now, if you could get the 500 for say $1,800, then maybe but at $2,400, nah I'd pass.

BTW all three would toast your Vstar, although the 500 would be the slowest of the three.

[jesse v]

I don't know what "rebuilt title" means, but the Ninja 650 and SV650 both look sweet, especially the SV.  The GS500 *MIGHT* get a little boring after a while, but I've never ridden one.  (Well, I test drove a '90 GS500 once, but it was in baaaaad shape.)  Still, you have 3 excellent options here.

[UHOH]

Son started w/ naked SV and became very skillful rider over 30K miles.  
Easy to work on and they don't break.  Post photos when you get one.

If miss one, another w/ pop up in time.

[nater]

Skip the GS500.  I had one as my first bike.  It's a good choice for a first bike--not a second.  

[Jalen]

thanks for the heads up on the gs500 guys. My sister is looking for her first bike, i recommended it to her. I'll let it pass by me though. Im having a tough time selling this 2009 vstar. Can't get a bike till i sell it. I'd hop on any sv650, nighthawk 750, or ninja right now if i had the money.

[ConPilot1]

They also had a 250 nighthawk that was a single cyl and used quite a bit by MSF beginner rider courses.  

Nein. It was a parallel twin. I have a pristine 3k miles '99 sitting 250 NH twin sitting in the C10 house.

[Jalen]

I'm looking at a 1991 Honda Nighthawk. I offered 1400 and he said he'd think about it.

http://bham.craigslist.org/mcy/3116479323.html


I kinda don't like that its shaft driven. Then again less maintenance but more $$ if something goes wrong.

Still havent sold that vstar but my dad would spot me 1400 until i sold it.

Any thoughts?

[Cricket1]

Jalen-

That Nighthawk looks like a great deal. Even at $1,600 or so.  (It is chain drive)

I started on a 1985 Yamaha Maxim 700, which is very similar- except the Maxim was shaft drive. I realize this isn't your first bike, but would be a step up from the V-Star.

[ConPilot1]

I'm looking at a 1991 Honda Nighthawk. I offered 1400 and he said he'd think about it.

http://bham.craigslist.org/mcy/3116479323.html


I kinda don't like that its shaft driven. Then again less maintenance but more $$ if something goes wrong.

Solid bikes. I wouldn't worry about it. That one looks pretty nice. Used, but not abused and obviously garage kept.

[falcofred]

I'm looking at a 1991 Honda Nighthawk. I offered 1400 and he said he'd think about it.

http://bham.craigslist.org/mcy/3116479323.html

I kinda don't like that its shaft driven.
Any thoughts?

One thought, you should read the ad, it states "new chain and sprockets" that means it is not shaft driven. A second thought, if you thought it was shaft, have you even seen the bike in person prior to making an offer?

[ConPilot1]

Damn it is a chain isn't it.  
Somehow I thought they were shafties too....

[falcofred]

Damn it is a chain isn't it.  
Somehow
 I thought they were shafties too....

I had an 84 Nighthawk "S"  it was shaft, 700cc bike, they manufactured them for three or four years, then dropped them. Early 90s' replaced with Nighthawk 750, chain.
The Nighthawk "S" was a great low maintenance bike, as it had shaft drive, hydraulic lifters, was air cooled. Pretty much just change the oil once and a while and put gas it it.

[Jalen]

Damn it is a chain isn't it.  
Somehow I thought they were shafties too....

Hell i cant believe i totally overlooked that. I had been told by someone else most of them were shaft driven. I didnt even notice he said that in the post. I guess i had been reading over so many of them, i just passed right by it. He said he'd be willing to take 1500 if i came today or tomorrow. I'm going to go check it out. Anything i should be aware of with this model when checking it out?
Posted on: July 03, 2012, 04:48:13 PMwent tonight and test rode the bike. Stalled it about 4 times  . Totally different from the cruiser. I didn't get to take it up to speeds as i was riding around downtown. Everything felt different, from the riding position to the shifting and braking. I noticed the clutch and front brake levers were both much....tighter than my vstar. Had to apply much more pressure. Also the rear brake appeared a little weaker than the vstar. don't know, maybe cause i didn't use the rear brake as much. I didn't really inspect the bike much as it was pretty dark and all i was thinking about was the test ride. I will probably inspect the chain and cables more closely as well as ask a few more questions about his maintenance of the bike. Overall i was impressed but will have to adjust to riding this bike for sure. settled a price at 1500.


Edit...also he said the tachometer would sometimes be a bit...."floppy"..err the dial would move too much or something like that. I didn't pay attention to it as i have never had a tachometer on a bike before. But how difficult/expensive would this be to replace/repair myself?

[Jalen]

  got it. $1500 24k miles. Chain is dirty and there is a bit of rust everywhere but carbs were definitely set right, bike runs like a champ. Well pleased.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

[2RR2NV]

 

good solid bike. didn't hardly do anything to it and it always ran. the only things i ever did was change oil, tires, chain, fork seal. kinda miss it cause it got dang good MPG. my highest was 72 and the lowest was 39 (only because it was windy as FECK that week - grr), but normally i got in the 50's. rode it for 2 years before i moved up.

CONGRATS! and Enjoy.