A new start to promoting General Aviation

[rgbeard]

I saw my first Skycatcher at the airport yesterday while getting in a C172 for the afternoon.

Not a bad looking little bird.  Contemporary replacement for the C152 perhaps?

http://www.kansas.com/2012/06/21/2382480/cessna-pilots-to-promote-skycatcher.html

"Cessna Aircraft is promoting flying and its light sport aircraft, the Skycatcher, in a program called Discover Flying Challenge.

The company has hired eight graduates from university aviation programs to fly the Skycatcher around the country, and a ninth graduate to act as dispatcher.

The pilots, who are also certified flight instructors, were in Wichita this week for training.

“It’s a program we developed to get people interested in the 162,” said Cessna spokesman Andy Woodward.

..............................."

[GTS_Rider]

I'm waiting for the FlyNano  

http://www.gizmag.com/flynano-first-flight-video/22968/

[satxbonneville]

Nice little bird but at a base price of 112K I think it's still out of the reach of most folks who dream about owning an airplane, unless you're talking about a fractional ownership deal or a lease-back arrangement. The cost of flying ownership is far beyond the purchase price - I have much better ways to spend my unspoken for cash than on avgas, hanger or tie-down space, annuals, etc.

This is a great pickup for flight schools as the entry level training aircraft but I don't see a big market beyond that pool.  

I do like that glass cockpit, it's sure a lot less busy than the panel in the AA-1A I learned in.  

[rgbeard]

Nice little bird but at a base price of 112K I think it's still out of the reach of most folks who dream about owning an airplane, unless you're talking about a fractional ownership deal or a lease-back arrangement. The cost of flying ownership is far beyond the purchase price - I have much better ways to spend my unspoken for cash than on avgas, hanger or tie-down space, annuals, etc.

This is a great pickup for flight schools as the entry level training aircraft but I don't see a big market beyond that pool.  

I do like that glass cockpit, it's sure a lot less busy than the panel in the AA-1A I learned in.  

At $112k, it's well within the reach of a flight club to have five or more of them sitting on a line, and taking reservations to rent.

Earn your license?  Check.
Go have fun?  Check.
Not spend a ton o'dough?  Check.

[Fourstring]

At $112k... (snip)

Not spend a ton o'dough?  Check.

Citation needed.

[HipGnosis]

Citation needed.

If you need a Cessna Citation, then the Cessna Skycatcher won't have any appeal to you...

[bomber]

Back during the post-War (2) era, and in the 1950s, the plan was for every county in the country to have a general aviation field -- some counties, more than 1.

Insurance got invovled, and the price of aircraft went through the roof (highly over-simplified, I know) . . . until General Aviation can make a powered, more-than-an-ultralight aircraft, it will remain the providence of rich (and, according to the news that reports each and every small craft crash) old white guy.

That's sad.

I do salute this manufacturer in trying to change this reality . . .

[Rogue]

If you need a Cessna Citation, then the Cessna Skycatcher won't have any appeal to you...

On the contrary, flying a Citation is going to be almost all IFR.  Flying a Skycatcher low and slow sounds like a lot more fun.  A Citation is for going to far away places at the fastest time possible at high altitudes burning thousands of gallons of fuel per hour.  

[919]

On the contrary, flying a Citation is going to be almost all IFR.  Flying a Skycatcher low and slow sounds like a lot more fun.  A Citation is for going to far away places at the fastest time possible at high altitudes burning thousands of gallons of fuel per hour.  

I had a Chevy Citation II once, it didn't fly very high and broke when it landed.......  True story.

[tjhess74]

ga manufacturers need to come up with profitable, inexpensive birds such as this (ok, maybe not so great on the inexpensive side).  as was mentioned, the average ga pilot is OLD and only getting older.  as that generation dies off there will be a flood of used planes, dropping plane values considerably.  while that price drop may be good for the younger buyer, the drop in volume and prices will have a huge negative impact on the ga industry.  mix the soon to be change in ga pilot demographics in with the current (and continuing) economic issues, ga as we know it will change forever.

a very good friend of mine lives in fla and has a '46 luscombe.  he is not rich by any means and every free penny and minute he has gets put in to flying.  he is hoping the real estate crisis in fla along with the sun birds dying off will allow him to get a good foothold on aviation property in the future.

[dm_gsxr]

We were checking out the Aviation show here in town last year and reading the bulletin board. The maintenance costs are pretty high too since all the parts used have to be certified for safety reasons.

Carl

[TwoWhldTerror]

Nice little bird but at a base price of 112K I think it's still out of the reach of most folks who dream about owning an airplane, unless you're talking about a fractional ownership deal or a lease-back arrangement. The cost of flying ownership is far beyond the purchase price - I have much better ways to spend my unspoken for cash than on avgas, hanger or tie-down space, annuals, etc.

This is a great pickup for flight schools as the entry level training aircraft but I don't see a big market beyond that pool.  

I do like that glass cockpit, it's sure a lot less busy than the panel in the AA-1A I learned in.  

Actually not, most aircraft loans can be amortized over 20 years. Truthfully that is a little over double what many spend on a luxury car or SUV. Stretch the payments to 20 years and it is quite affordable.

Now as to the latter part of our statement, oh do I agree! As much as I love flying (hell I live on a runway in a fly-in community!) I could not justify the operating expenses for my 182 thus I sold it 1.5 years ago. Still miss it a lot, do NOT miss the costs.  

[spd2918]

General aviation is near dead.  The costs have exceeded what a normal person can afford, unless it is their only priority.  Everyone I know that flew for fun is no longer flying, citing cost as their only reason.  Getting your license is one thing; maintaining it is another.  This excludes rich folks that still fly but not often enough to be good pilots (think JFK Jr).

The Civil Air Patrol is one less expensive way to keep your license.

I grew up flying with my part-time commercial pilot dad in the early 70's.  He had access to his boss's planes in exchange for flying him around.  Fuel was cheap and pops was not responsible for insurance and maintenance.  We'd scout fishing spots or fly down to see my grandfolks all the time.  I got a lot of stick time long before I was old enough to drive a car.  The good old days....

[Rogue]

The cost of fully certified GA airplanes are high due to the low production numbers and the cost to certify, plus the insurance liability required to sell them.  Back in the late ‘70’s and early 80’s, a series of lawsuits against the large aircraft manufacturers pretty much guaranteed they are responsible if their airplane is found “lacking” or “defective” in some way and caused an accident to occur.  Those were dark days and many aircraft makers stopped making lots of GA aircraft and others just went bankrupt.  Today, no certified aircraft is allowed to fly unless (it seems) every part of it is certified by the FAA or some other governing body.  You think it’s expensive to put a new motorcycle out to market?  It’s so much more for any new airplane.  I’m thinking about $30M-$50M to come out with an all new model but that’s just a rough guess.  

OTOH, full certification is good because you know your aircraft’s performance parameters are well documented.  We don’t want airplanes crashing into people’s homes on a regular basis.  So the regulations are very strict, not only for aircraft but for pilots.  Just like the argument for more riders, be careful what you wish for.  Do you really want that large a segment of the population operating a flying machine with varying skills and/or decision making process?  I’m sure the pilots here will agree that even more so than a motorcycle, operating an airplane requires even more technical skill and continued practice and re-training to be safe and capable.  I’m glad it’s difficult to get a pilot’s license because I want those who can fly to be much more skilled and committed than the average car or motorcycle rider.

[black hills]

 We'd scout fishing spots or fly down to see my grandfolks all the time.  I got a lot of stick time long before I was old enough to drive a car.  The good old days....

   some of my best memories as a kid were my brother and I crammed in the rear seat of a J-3...

[HipGnosis]

At $112k, it's....

Not spend a ton o'dough?  Check.

What's the next (or previous?) cheapest airplane on the market going for?

[Rogue]

Most LSA class aircraft cost around $100k or close to it.  Add more advanced avionics and the price goes up.  The Cessna is as good as it gets in this class.

If you want maximum bang for the buck, buying used is the best way to go.  There are many used GA airplanes under $100k and many have low time or have had upgraded avionics, paint, interiors, etc.  These will have way more performance than an LSA.  But then again, if you just want to fly a fun airplane, that's one of the reasons the LSA class was created for--recreational pilots.

[JReazor]

I had a Chevy Citation II once, it didn't fly very high and broke when it landed.......  True story.

Me too! With the funky, sideways stereo and the worst suspension of any car I've ever driven. That probably explains the rough landings.

[satxbonneville]

Most LSA class aircraft cost around $100k or close to it.  Add more advanced avionics and the price goes up.  The Cessna is as good as it gets in this class.

If you want maximum bang for the buck, buying used is the best way to go.  There are many used GA airplanes under $100k and many have low time or have had upgraded avionics, paint, interiors, etc.  These will have way more performance than an LSA.  But then again, if you just want to fly a fun airplane, that's one of the reasons the LSA class was created for--recreational pilots.

The rub buying used comes in the certification of the aircraft. If it's not LSA then you have to spend significantly more on getting your ticket to be able to fly that used bird.

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/media/ExistingModels.pdf

GA is largely a rich man's game if you want to own and are unwilling to drop every spare dime you have into a flying back hole. As someone pointed out in an earlier post, an aircraft can be bought with a 20 year note but that's just not a realistic option for most middle-class folks. It's like having 2 house payments. Add in the required expenditures to house, supply and maintain that aircraft and it's quickly unsupportable unless you have a pretty good chunk of throw-away cash coming into your bank account.

As someone else pointed out, flying is a high risk, high attention requirement undertaking. Even so, there are plenty of stories to fill Peter Garrison's Aftermath column every month for many years so even in a self-selected population of individuals who have gone through the proper training there is a population of folks who are unable to manage risk by making proper choices. Imagine the skies filled with the idiots who drive SUV's with wanton abandon. Help me, Mr. Wizard!

[rgbeard]

Our flying club operates two LSA Aircraft, Tecnam Bravos.  $110/hr.

http://www.pcflyers.org/index.php?page=3&aircraft=N153TB

For a fuel-inclusive price (as most all aircraft rentals are.  people seem surprised at that.) it's a reasonably economical time up and about.

Our C-150 goes for $89/hr.  That's pretty darn inexpensive, and when it's just you in the plane, those little guys move quite nicely.