Harley goes Sparkly

[Rincewind]

Goodbye to those drab Dark Custom bikes - Harley is setting the time warp for the 1970's with the return of metal flake paint.    They call it the Hard Candy Custom line.  

There must be some big fans of Twilight in Milwaukee.  

[falconati]

I bet they'll sell a good number of them.  The paint quality looks great....just not a huge fan of the colors  

[Cablebandit]

Kinda looks like a bass boat paint job.

[black hills]

HD seems to have high quality paint jobs, I imagine they will sell. Like them or not they are the best MC company as far as marketing goes  rumor has it the 2013 1/2 models (out in feb. ) will have water cooled heads.

[sammyseaman]

HD seems to have high quality paint jobs,

Almost as good as the new VFR1200's .............................  

[Baz]

Kinda looks like a bass boat paint job.

 

[ConPilot1]

Like them or not they are the best MC company as far as marketing goes

Pretty easy to do considering the 5,000,000 brainwashed fanboi's out there who swallow everything Harrrrrrley says, does, or puts into production without question or further consideration
for anything else on the market.

[mxvet57]

Kinda looks like a bass boat paint job.

And weigh as much.

[black hills]

Pretty easy to do considering the 5,000,000 brainwashed fanboi's out there who swallow everything Harrrrrrley says, does, or puts into production without question or further consideration
for anything else on the market.

and they are only brainwashed because HD's marketing dept. brainwashed them.....pure genius!!

[falcofred]

 Like them or not they are the best MC company as far as marketing goes  

The best MC company as far as Marketing goes?
Really the best company period as far as marketing goes, only Apple and Coca Cola come close to HD in brand loyalty. They're marketing geniuses, just not my cup of tea.

[black hills]

The best MC company as far as Marketing goes?
Really the best company period as far as marketing goes, only Apple and Coca Cola come close to HD in brand loyalty. They're marketing geniuses, just not my cup of tea.

   thier former VP of public relations was a speaker at a conference I attended a few yeara ago, they do amazing things!

[Rattlehead]

HD seems to have high quality paint jobs, I imagine they will sell. Like them or not they are the best MC company as far as marketing goes  rumor has it the 2013 1/2 models (out in feb. ) will have water cooled heads.

I've seen custom bikes with paint that can't beat Harley's. Their finishes are second to none. Their bikes may or may not be your thing, which is fine, but ALL other MC companies could learn a thing or 2 from Harelys paint and finish department.

I've checked out the new Sportster "72" with the red "bass-boat" paint and I LOVE it. Man, what a looker! Problem is, it was pushin $12g at the dealer and no Sporty is worth $12g to me.

[Cricket1]

Yeah, nice paint.  

Harley does have amazing marketing skills, and has soooo many fanbois drinking the Kool Aid.

It's just too bad they ONLY market to the cruiser crowd. Think how much they could advance motorcycling into say the... hmmmm.. .. late 1980's if they branched out into other segments of the market.  Yeah, I know about Buell, etc.  


Its sad to think of all the Harley owners who will never in their lives experience what its like to ride a bike that handles, brakes and accelerates better than a 1956 DeSoto.  

(And yeah, I can hear Bubbles/ Chornbe/ whatever he's called now, going on about how his Sporty can run down CBR's etc. I don't doubt for a second he is right, but how many Harleys have had that type of work done on them to perform like that??  Me thinks not too many)

[UFO]

Pretty easy to do considering the 5,000,000 brainwashed fanboi's out there who swallow everything Harrrrrrley says, does, or puts into production without question or further consideration
for anything else on the market.

Sounds like deep down you pine for a Harley, but just can't afford one.


 

[ConPilot1]

Sounds like deep down you pine for a Harley, but just can't afford one.


 

Hardley. Even If I was Ableson.




Man, are you ever on an administrative level trolltheconpilot roll lately.

I think I'm going to start calling you Nealzilla.  

[spinalator]

I had an open face helmet for our three-wheeler that had sparkle paint like that. It was schmokin'! I have no idea where dad bought it...

[ConPilot1]

I had an open face helmet for our three-wheeler that had sparkle paint like that. It was schmokin'! I have no idea where dad bought it...

McCrorys. In 1973 or somewhere thereabouts. Behind the Leisure Suit section.

[UFO]

Hardley. Even If I was Ableson.




Man, are you ever on an administrative level trolltheconpilot roll lately.

I think I'm going to start calling you Nealzilla.  

Bud Fox (ConPilot1): Why do you need to troll me?
UFO (Gordon Gekko): Because you're TROLLABLE, all right? I took another look at it and I changed my mind!

 

[Skee]

They do make a good looking bike.  I wouldn't mind seeing one parked in my driveway.  


That's where it would spend most of it's time.  'Cause I wouldn't want to be riding it down to ESTN.


(And how different would that be from my Wee right now?  Zero miles in July, <150 in June.  I need to get out more.)

I had an open face helmet for our three-wheeler that had sparkle paint like that. It was schmokin'! I have no idea where dad bought it...

Did it have red & blue stripes with white stars?  Had one in the 70's.  It was so cool.  Wish I had kept it.  Be right in style now.

[ConPilot1]

They do make a good looking bike.  I wouldn't mind seeing one parked in my driveway.  

If I can swing the ESTN run, I'll be sure to bring the rattlecan of sparkly gold for your Wee-Strom.

I'll try to do the best masking job I can of the stuff not to be painted, bombed, and at 3:00 AM.  

[Rincewind]

I'm in favor of new and different colors - heck, my bike is the color of phlegm - but metal flake is something that should have gone the way of asbestos.  It's hard for me to take the sparkle scheme serious anymore now that we are in the age of vajazzling, glitter make-up, sparkly vampires and bejeweled cell phones.  

BTW - my first helmet as a kid had metal flake red flame job.  It sure was cool at the time...  in the 1970's - but so were corduroy bell-bottoms!

[black hills]

I'm in favor of new and different colors - heck, my bike is the color of phlegm - but metal flake is something that should have gone the way of asbestos.  It's hard for me to take the sparkle scheme serious anymore now that we are in the age of vajazzling, glitter make-up, sparkly vampires and bejeweled cell phones.  

BTW - my first helmet as a kid had metal flake red flame job.  It sure was cool at the time...  in the 1970's - but so were corduroy bell-bottoms!

fashion, like most things repeats itself

[Cablebandit]

Imagine if the marketing juggernauts of Harley and Apple combined forces.

The iHarley would rule the day.

Of course it wouldn't come with flashers and you'd need to use their branded fuel to make it do anything, but profits would be though the roof.

[DogBoy]

At least they didn't put tribal vinyl graphics on them. The metal flake looks cool on true customs but these aren't working for me. However, I really like the paint colors and graphics on most of the Sportster line. And HD does a quality job on their paint.  

[atadaskew]

Gorgeous.  Seriously.  And you'll see next model year run all the Japanese mfgs and Victory will copy Harley and offer these type of paints.  But just in much lower quality.
And if you don't like the hard candy, HD still offers regular colours.
Posted on: August 24, 2012, 10:55:39 AM

Almost as good as the new VFR1200's .............................  

Just don't touch the paint on the VFR.  It's as soft as a baby's bottom.
Just like the garbage paint on my Wing 1800.  The sides of the 'tank' cover would dull after one ride.

[ConPilot1]

Love the green.  

Gawd those colors are awful. Please kill the line now.

GIFSoup

[DogBoy]

Kawasaki had a few version of the Vulcan 2000 in deep Candy sparkle six or seven years ago.

[atadaskew]

Kawasaki had a few version of the Vulcan 2000 in deep Candy sparkle six or seven years ago.

Was it a real metal flake, or just called deep Candy sparkle and just a metallic paint job?

[DogBoy]

Its been six or seven years. I don't remember.  

Doesn't matter. The Vulcan 2000 was a showroom anchor and only sold with huge incentives from Kawaski. Not bad bikes, though.

[Rattlehead]

.......
Just don't touch the paint on the VFR.  It's as soft as a baby's bottom.
Just like the garbage paint on my Wing 1800.  The sides of the 'tank' cover would dull after one ride.

Suzuki isn’t any better.

I will probably be stripping down the Busa next year and spraying it with something that has better resistance to the elements than the magic marker they painted it with at the factory. The factory paint is something I would be ashamed of if I’d done it myself. There is an abundance of chips on the leading edge of the lower fairings now from riding in the rain and no matter how much you clean and polish it, the paint looks like it’s about 1/100 a micron deep.
Harleys have the depth and luster of a quality paint job and the Japanese have never figured it out, ESPECIALLY on their sportbikes. A good cleaning and polishing on that Sportster I had and you'd swear you could dip your finger into that paint.  

[Cablebandit]

Really?  A thirteen year old bike that's ridden should be covered in chips, etc.  

[Galo]

Really?  A thirteen year old bike that's ridden should be covered in chips, etc.  

But but but...therein lies the answer to why Harley paints last so long!
 

[black hills]

But but but...therein lies the answer to why Harley paints last so long!
 

THe HD guys I know all ride more than me

[ConPilot1]

Haha bitches my old Concours has endured rain, snow, ice, bird shit, spit, burning direct sun, coffee spills, cigarette ashes, and all wiped off with a leather glove and a little Plexus now and then.

And it's still the color of a Taco Bell napkin.  

[atadaskew]

Really?  A thirteen year old bike that's ridden should be covered in chips, etc.  

My 2003 Ducati looks flawless.  The paint on that is much harder/glossier than on any Japanese bike I've owned.
I use it for touring and canyon straffing and it has maybe 2 chips on it.  Bike still looks like new.

So don't use the excuse of a poor paint job as the result of being ridden.

[black hills]

My 2003 Ducati looks flawless.  The paint on that is much harder/glossier than on any Japanese bike I've owned.
I use it for touring and canyon straffing and it has maybe 2 chips on it.  Bike still looks like new.

So don't use the excuse of a poor paint job as the result of being ridden.

My '90 VFR and '03 CBR both had most of the paint missing from the leading edge of the lower fairing, of course I ride gravel occasionally so I'm sure the '04 CBR will look the same before too long.

[X1Glider]

[DogBoy]

Slightly more relevant were the gold metalflake Jordan Suzukis from a couple of years ago. These bikes looked good.

[jstark47]

Haha bitches my old Concours has endured rain, etc........... And it's still the color of a Taco Bell napkin. 1970's Steelcase filing cabinet.

FTFY

[Skee]

If I can swing the ESTN run, I'll be sure to bring the rattlecan of sparkly gold for your Wee-Strom.

I'll try to do the best masking job I can of the stuff not to be painted, bombed, and at 3:00 AM.  

Wowee flat black and gold glitter. Don't ferget yer razor blade.  

[veefer800canuck]

Is it really "custom" if anyone can buy one???  

[atadaskew]

Is it really "custom" if anyone can buy one???  

Yes.
Unless it is spelled "Kustom".

[stevent]

I like them, I liked candy apple back in the 70's and I think it looks great today. I'm glad they're moving on past the Oh So Hip flat black primer look. The Shovelhead chopper I built back then was black with purple mettleflake in it, looked pretty freakin cool I'll tell ya!  

[atadaskew]

Lezbee honest here.

All the doods complaining about the hard candy Harleys, would be complaining no matter what Harley did.
They just like to biatch about Harley.

I guess if that is what keeps you entertained.
 

[sammyseaman]

Lezbee honest here.

All the doods complaining about the hard candy Harleys, would be complaining no matter what Harley did.
They just like to biatch about Harley.

I guess if that is what keeps you entertained.
 

This ^^^^

[black hills]

Lezbee honest here.

All the doods complaining about the hard candy Harleys, would be complaining no matter what Harley did.
They just like to biatch about Harley.

I guess if that is what keeps you entertained.
 

pretty much covers it, maybe it's Harley envy

[Cricket1]

pretty much covers it, maybe it's Harley envy

Yup that must be it... everyone who doesn't like a Harley must really be jealous and wants one.   
(says the typical narcissistic Harley owner... And Atadaskew
What a complete crock of &$?!   

[black hills]

Yup that must be it... everyone who doesn't like a Harley must really be jealous and wants one.   
(says the typical narcissistic Harley owner... And Atadaskew
What a complete crock of &$?!   

maybe it's in the owners manual

[Cricket1]

maybe it's in the owners manual

Nah- They don't need the owners manual to tell them to be narcissists, it just comes naturally. 

[atadaskew]

Yup that must be it... everyone who doesn't like a Harley must really be jealous and wants one.   
(says the typical narcissistic Harley owner... And Atadaskew
What a complete crock of &$?!   

Just get one already.  

Sheesh.

[DogBoy]

Just get one already.  

Sheesh.

 

[FBRR]

They may have "sparkly gas tanks", BUTThey don't spread with E10!!

[Carbonero]

Yeah, nice paint.  

Harley does have amazing marketing skills, and has soooo many fanbois drinking the Kool Aid.

It's just too bad they ONLY market to the cruiser crowd. Think how much they could advance motorcycling into say the... hmmmm.. .. late 1980's if they branched out into other segments of the market.  Yeah, I know about Buell, etc.  


Its sad to think of all the Harley owners who will never in their lives experience what its like to ride a bike that handles, brakes and accelerates better than a 1956 DeSoto.  

(And yeah, I can hear Bubbles/ Chornbe/ whatever he's called now, going on about how his Sporty can run down CBR's etc. I don't doubt for a second he is right, but how many Harleys have had that type of work done on them to perform like that??  Me thinks not too many)

They make what sells.

They will never undo what they've done, they will never change. Why? They have unmatched success doing exactly what they do. Period. End of story.

They've tried to branch out a little here and there. People want Harleys to be Harleys. Nothing else. The three XR1200s that sold and the 19 VRods that sold are loved by those 22 people, but otherwise, they're just not ever going to break into other market segments. Why?

Would you pay $25,000 for a sport bike that the Japanese can build cheaper, in higher numbers and with 20, 30, 40 years of track legacy? There's no way Harley can touch "big four" pricing, and to do so as a new entry...? Well, we see how (relatively) few Buells sold over the years and they were "loss leader" priced.

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee for a "new" line of bikes from a company who has absolutely NO track record (pun) making bikes in that market segment?

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee for a bike built with something other than the tried-n-true I4, high-revving, anemically torqued engine by a company who's spent the last 100 years making engines that maximize torque and have leave the RPM wars to the race track?

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee for a bike whose manufacturer has spent over 100 years building tube cradle-frame bikes when even the Suzuki Bandit (a steel tube cradle-frame bike) is called antiquated and sells in numbers measuring a fraction of the more "advanced" bike styles?

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee to enter the world on a "Harley-Davidson" sport bike? The stigma alone from both sides of the Orange -n- Black fence would make you sell the thing in 20 minutes.

Everyone says "Harley should...." but no one would buy it, no one would be the early adopter ("I'll buy a used one in 3 or 4 years when the prices drop") and no one would ever go to bat in the market place.

Can we just give up on this silly argument now?

Harley doesn't make what the sport bike and ST crowd wants. They don't need to. They (likely) never will. And that's A-ok. You want all the pluses that Harley offers...? Buy a Harley. You don't want a Harley? That's ok too. You don't get those pluses.

And there are pluses. Many of them.

Harley, et al, ain't dumb.

[Carbonero]

Yup that must be it... everyone who doesn't like a Harley must really be jealous and wants one.   
(says the typical narcissistic Harley owner... And Atadaskew
What a complete crock of &$?!   

No, just the people who say they don't want one and endlessly bitch about them.

Let's see... I don't want a purple tuxedo. I have never discussed how awful purple tuxedos are.
I don't want a Ferrari pickup truck. I have never complained that Ferrari doesn't make pickup trucks.
I don't want a Bob's Big Boy statue in my front yard. I have never complained that I can't just go buy a Bob's Big Boy statue.

See how it works...?

No, no... don't thank me. I solve problems for a living.

[greywolf]

 I've always had a soft spot for Metal flake , it would look silly  on on a Sport Touring bike , but fit's HD's as they are inherently retro styled

[JReazor]

No, just the people who say they don't want one and endlessly bitch about them.

Let's see... I don't want a purple tuxedo. I have never discussed how awful purple tuxedos are.
I don't want a Ferrari pickup truck. I have never complained that Ferrari doesn't make pickup trucks.
I don't want a Bob's Big Boy statue in my front yard. I have never complained that I can't just go buy a Bob's Big Boy statue.

See how it works...?

No, no... don't thank me. I solve problems for a living.

A Ferrari pickup would be pretty bad ass.

[Cricket1]

They make what sells.

They will never undo what they've done, they will never change. Why? They have unmatched success doing exactly what they do. Period. End of story.

They've tried to branch out a little here and there. People want Harleys to be Harleys. Nothing else. The three XR1200s that sold and the 19 VRods that sold are loved by those 22 people, but otherwise, they're just not ever going to break into other market segments. Why?

Would you pay $25,000 for a sport bike that the Japanese can build cheaper, in higher numbers and with 20, 30, 40 years of track legacy? There's no way Harley can touch "big four" pricing, and to do so as a new entry...? Well, we see how (relatively) few Buells sold over the years and they were "loss leader" priced.

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee for a "new" line of bikes from a company who has absolutely NO track record (pun) making bikes in that market segment?

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee for a bike built with something other than the tried-n-true I4, high-revving, anemically torqued engine by a company who's spent the last 100 years making engines that maximize torque and have leave the RPM wars to the race track?

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee for a bike whose manufacturer has spent over 100 years building tube cradle-frame bikes when even the Suzuki Bandit (a steel tube cradle-frame bike) is called antiquated and sells in numbers measuring a fraction of the more "advanced" bike styles?

Would you pay *any* reasonable fee to enter the world on a "Harley-Davidson" sport bike? The stigma alone from both sides of the Orange -n- Black fence would make you sell the thing in 20 minutes.

Everyone says "Harley should...." but no one would buy it, no one would be the early adopter ("I'll buy a used one in 3 or 4 years when the prices drop") and no one would ever go to bat in the market place.

Can we just give up on this silly argument now?

Harley doesn't make what the sport bike and ST crowd wants. They don't need to. They (likely) never will. And that's A-ok. You want all the pluses that Harley offers...? Buy a Harley. You don't want a Harley? That's ok too. You don't get those pluses.

And there are pluses. Many of them.

Harley, et al, ain't dumb.

I guess you misunderstood what I was saying.  From a financial and marketing viewpoint, you are absolutely correct Harley does a fantastic job and more than likely, will never stray from the cruiser market.  What I was saying is that it would be great if they DID offer bikes that handled and accelerated better. IF they did, and "opened the eyes" of some of the "faithful", think how much better all of their bikes could become.

To me its sad that their own marketing has straight jacketed them sooooo much, that innovation is sneered at by the faithful.  (Yes, I know they make a ton of money doing what they do, they don't have to do any else, blah, blah, blah. )  Is everything ALLWAYS 110% about the money?  Or is there some excitement about true improvement over time?

[Cricket1]

No, just the people who say they don't want one and endlessly bitch about them.

Let's see... I don't want a purple tuxedo. I have never discussed how awful purple tuxedos are.
I don't want a Ferrari pickup truck. I have never complained that Ferrari doesn't make pickup trucks.
I don't want a Bob's Big Boy statue in my front yard. I have never complained that I can't just go buy a Bob's Big Boy statue.

See how it works...?

No, no... don't thank me. I solve problems for a living.

So, I guess you've never owned a "pretend" bike?  And been asked over and over again about when you are going to get a "real" bike??

Really?

Or when the Harley guys ask about my Triumph- calling it a rice grinder. 

It was funny how guys riding $15,000+ Harleys would get smoked when trying to keep up with my previous bike. A 1985 Yamaha Maxim 700. Purchased in 1999 for $1,700.  I guess they didn't have the metal flake paint??  

[atadaskew]

So, I guess you've never owned a "pretend" bike?  And been asked over and over again about when you are going to get a "real" bike??

Really?

Or when the Harley guys ask about my Triumph- calling it a rice grinder. 

It was funny how guys riding $15,000+ Harleys would get smoked when trying to keep up with my previous bike. A 1985 Yamaha Maxim 700. Purchased in 1999 for $1,700.  I guess they didn't have the metal flake paint??  

So the pain comes out.

We are here to listen.

[black hills]

Or when the Harley guys ask about my Triumph- calling it a rice grinder. 

I get that on the KTM as well, I tell them it is Austrian and they just look at me like I invented a new country??

I rode back to my hometown with 3 HD guys, one of them asked if my 990 would run 80mph? I tild him I didn't know??  one of the others offered to switch bikes (he has a '10 CVO streetglide) when we stopped to switch back he told the other guy "no way our HD'a will keep up with that thing!"    I liked the HD on the highway, probably not so much in the twisties.

[DogBoy]

I get that on the KTM as well, I tell them it is Austrian and they just look at me like I invented a new country??

     Did they ask about kangaroos?

[black hills]

     Did they ask about kangaroos?

LOL... occasioanlly I have to explain Austria, not Australia. and then I get the empty glare of an overloaded brain..

[Rincewind]

For 2013, it looks like HD axed the XR1200X and Nightster as well.  

I blame Prubert.  

[ConPilot1]

Sad, because the XR1200X would be the only Harley-Davidson I'd ever even be remotely interested in.

[Prubert]

For 2013, it looks like HD axed the XR1200X and Nightster as well.  

I blame Prubert.  

Yes!! my Diabolical plan to turn my XR into a collectors item worked....

...I hope this time it works, I'm still stinging from that 'Operation Rune'.  

[DogBoy]

Bummer about the Nightster and the XR.

[Cricket1]

Bummer about the Nightster and the XR.

And this is surprising because....???

Obviously they were not SELLING, so the ever omnicscient Harley dropped them.  Don't be surprised, remember, Harley is the MASTER at marketing and making money.

[atadaskew]

And this is surprising because....???

Obviously they were not SELLING, so the ever omnicscient Harley dropped them.  Don't be surprised, remember, Harley is the MASTER at marketing and making money.

They are a business.

Like every other bike mfg out there.

Is losing money your idea of running a business?

[DNA]

The best MC company as far as Marketing goes?
Really the best company period as far as marketing goes, only Apple and Coca Cola come close to HD in brand loyalty. They're marketing geniuses, just not my cup of tea.

How many Coca Cola and Apple tats do you see around?

Do you know any other Brand that people choose to permanently display on their bodies?

Those guys are fng awesome from a marketing perspective.  That they do that with a technically antiquated platform is even more amazing.

[Carbonero]

I guess you misunderstood what I was saying.  From a financial and marketing viewpoint, you are absolutely correct Harley does a fantastic job and more than likely, will never stray from the cruiser market.  What I was saying is that it would be great if they DID offer bikes that handled and accelerated better. IF they did, and "opened the eyes" of some of the "faithful", think how much better all of their bikes could become.

To me its sad that their own marketing has straight jacketed them sooooo much, that innovation is sneered at by the faithful.  (Yes, I know they make a ton of money doing what they do, they don't have to do any else, blah, blah, blah. )  Is everything ALLWAYS 110% about the money?  Or is there some excitement about true improvement over time?

I suppose I did misunderstand.

But I think every business - especially one as large and corporate as HD now is - reaches a point where the safety and stability of excelling at what they do best is more important and is the main focus of their earnings. Any publicly-traded company, sadly, owes their first responsibility to the share holders.

So, the answer in this case... yes. It's always about the money.

[Cricket1]

I suppose I did misunderstand.

But I think every business - especially one as large and corporate as HD now is - reaches a point where the safety and stability of excelling at what they do best is more important and is the main focus of their earnings. Any publicly-traded company, sadly, owes their first responsibility to the share holders.

So, the answer in this case... yes. It's always about the money.

But then you have brands like Ducati and Moto Guzzi, who still cling to v twin engine technology, but are in many ways far more innovative and cutting edge than Harley. (less so with MG)  From a business perspective though, ummm, not so much.  Neither of these have done well financially and have required "bail outs" from time to time. 

I've got an idea, Harley could maybe afford to innovate some, and maybe make slightly less money. Even if they got into trouble, I'd bet the free market manipulators in DC would love to offer them a bailout if needed in the future. 

[DogBoy]

And this is surprising because....???

Obviously they were not SELLING, so the ever omnicscient Harley dropped them.  Don't be surprised, remember, Harley is the MASTER at marketing and making money.

Where did I say I was surprised?

[Cricket1]

Ok, maybe you were disappointed vs surprised. Sorry for the misinterpretation.  

[DogBoy]

Ok, maybe you were disappointed vs surprised. Sorry for the misinterpretation.  

Tough one to misinterpret. "We're having a bummer party for Joe, so don't tell him or you'll ruin the bummer."  

 

[Carbonero]

But then you have brands like Ducati and Moto Guzzi, who still cling to v twin engine technology, but are in many ways far more innovative and cutting edge than Harley. (less so with MG)  From a business perspective though, ummm, not so much.  Neither of these have done well financially and have required "bail outs" from time to time. 

I've got an idea, Harley could maybe afford to innovate some, and maybe make slightly less money. Even if they got into trouble, I'd bet the free market manipulators in DC would love to offer them a bailout if needed in the future. 

You lost me. How is "clinging to a v-twin"...
1) relavent?
2) a bad thing?

It's just a choice of engine design. I don't think that they're necessarily "clinging" to it (if you're intending to make it sound like a bad thing... that's just how it came across.)

I happen to think that a lower or milder-revving twin or thumper is *far* more practical on the street than any of the buzzy, high-revving smaller I4 engines... at least for my tastes and likes. You have to employ a rather large, big-bore I4 to get that same feeling of all the torque, all the time that you get with a much smaller twin.  The AMOUNT of torque isn't the thing; it's the feeling that you can tap it at point in the rev range and count on it. You can't do with that with smaller I4s, so in that way, twins are superior ($.02/YMMV/IMHO).

The Ducati mill is quite nice. The Guzzi mill has charm and is ridiculously simple. Neither of them can touch, say, the Strom or SV engine for the combination of practicality, simplicity, durability and price.

And in all that, I fail to see any resemblance to Harley who employs a CENTURY-proven design of high torque, low-revving, understressed powerplants in their bikes that people buy 10, 20 and 100-to-1 over other brands.

Where, exactly, are they failing, and why, exactly, should they change?

And as far as modernizing, what exactly isn't modern about a current-model Harley? Please, seriously, what is "ancient" about them? I want to know.

...

I think what people are missing is that Harley (the brand) is synonymous with Harley (the style of bike). Show me one other successful marque that has that strong distinction...?

Ducati? ok, but as you said, they're not exactly laying around in FU money, plus they just released a cruiser (the Diavel).
Aprilia? They build some kick as high-po bikes... and scooters.
Moto Guzzi? They build some nice retro standards... and a dual sport and a sport tourer.

Harley builds cruisers and cruiser-styled bikes. Period. End of story. And they rock it.

Harley the brand and Harley the style are rather unique in the market place as a fairly unified entity... and they're far more successful than any other motorcycle company - most would argue - BECAUSE of that dedication to their branded style.

Bottom line for me, I guess, is I simply fail to understand why so many people think Harley needs to change.

I also hold my point that not one single one of you guys claiming they need to build something more to your liking would drop your hard-earned cash on it, so.... moot point...? I think so.

[spd2918]

Does AMF own them again?

[ConPilot1]

You lost me. How is "clinging to a v-twin"...
1) relavent?
2) a bad thing?

snip snip snip:

Chris is feeling better again I see.    

[stevent]

Well I like them. I buy a new one every few years and enjoy putting as many miles as I can on them.

Most of the people I know ride Harley's and most of them either have another bike like a sport bike or dirt bike or grew up riding sport bikes and/or dirt bikes. granted there's a percentage of Harley riders that don't even know other motorcycles exist, but the stereotypical Harley Only pirate is for the most part just that, a stereotype.