Harley goes Sparkly

[DogBoy]

I get that on the KTM as well, I tell them it is Austrian and they just look at me like I invented a new country??

     Did they ask about kangaroos?

[black hills]

     Did they ask about kangaroos?

LOL... occasioanlly I have to explain Austria, not Australia. and then I get the empty glare of an overloaded brain..

[Rincewind]

For 2013, it looks like HD axed the XR1200X and Nightster as well.  

I blame Prubert.  

[ConPilot1]

Sad, because the XR1200X would be the only Harley-Davidson I'd ever even be remotely interested in.

[Prubert]

For 2013, it looks like HD axed the XR1200X and Nightster as well.  

I blame Prubert.  

Yes!! my Diabolical plan to turn my XR into a collectors item worked....

...I hope this time it works, I'm still stinging from that 'Operation Rune'.  

[DogBoy]

Bummer about the Nightster and the XR.

[Cricket1]

Bummer about the Nightster and the XR.

And this is surprising because....???

Obviously they were not SELLING, so the ever omnicscient Harley dropped them.  Don't be surprised, remember, Harley is the MASTER at marketing and making money.

[atadaskew]

And this is surprising because....???

Obviously they were not SELLING, so the ever omnicscient Harley dropped them.  Don't be surprised, remember, Harley is the MASTER at marketing and making money.

They are a business.

Like every other bike mfg out there.

Is losing money your idea of running a business?

[DNA]

The best MC company as far as Marketing goes?
Really the best company period as far as marketing goes, only Apple and Coca Cola come close to HD in brand loyalty. They're marketing geniuses, just not my cup of tea.

How many Coca Cola and Apple tats do you see around?

Do you know any other Brand that people choose to permanently display on their bodies?

Those guys are fng awesome from a marketing perspective.  That they do that with a technically antiquated platform is even more amazing.

[Carbonero]

I guess you misunderstood what I was saying.  From a financial and marketing viewpoint, you are absolutely correct Harley does a fantastic job and more than likely, will never stray from the cruiser market.  What I was saying is that it would be great if they DID offer bikes that handled and accelerated better. IF they did, and "opened the eyes" of some of the "faithful", think how much better all of their bikes could become.

To me its sad that their own marketing has straight jacketed them sooooo much, that innovation is sneered at by the faithful.  (Yes, I know they make a ton of money doing what they do, they don't have to do any else, blah, blah, blah. )  Is everything ALLWAYS 110% about the money?  Or is there some excitement about true improvement over time?

I suppose I did misunderstand.

But I think every business - especially one as large and corporate as HD now is - reaches a point where the safety and stability of excelling at what they do best is more important and is the main focus of their earnings. Any publicly-traded company, sadly, owes their first responsibility to the share holders.

So, the answer in this case... yes. It's always about the money.

[Cricket1]

I suppose I did misunderstand.

But I think every business - especially one as large and corporate as HD now is - reaches a point where the safety and stability of excelling at what they do best is more important and is the main focus of their earnings. Any publicly-traded company, sadly, owes their first responsibility to the share holders.

So, the answer in this case... yes. It's always about the money.

But then you have brands like Ducati and Moto Guzzi, who still cling to v twin engine technology, but are in many ways far more innovative and cutting edge than Harley. (less so with MG)  From a business perspective though, ummm, not so much.  Neither of these have done well financially and have required "bail outs" from time to time. 

I've got an idea, Harley could maybe afford to innovate some, and maybe make slightly less money. Even if they got into trouble, I'd bet the free market manipulators in DC would love to offer them a bailout if needed in the future. 

[DogBoy]

And this is surprising because....???

Obviously they were not SELLING, so the ever omnicscient Harley dropped them.  Don't be surprised, remember, Harley is the MASTER at marketing and making money.

Where did I say I was surprised?

[Cricket1]

Ok, maybe you were disappointed vs surprised. Sorry for the misinterpretation.  

[DogBoy]

Ok, maybe you were disappointed vs surprised. Sorry for the misinterpretation.  

Tough one to misinterpret. "We're having a bummer party for Joe, so don't tell him or you'll ruin the bummer."  

 

[Carbonero]

But then you have brands like Ducati and Moto Guzzi, who still cling to v twin engine technology, but are in many ways far more innovative and cutting edge than Harley. (less so with MG)  From a business perspective though, ummm, not so much.  Neither of these have done well financially and have required "bail outs" from time to time. 

I've got an idea, Harley could maybe afford to innovate some, and maybe make slightly less money. Even if they got into trouble, I'd bet the free market manipulators in DC would love to offer them a bailout if needed in the future. 

You lost me. How is "clinging to a v-twin"...
1) relavent?
2) a bad thing?

It's just a choice of engine design. I don't think that they're necessarily "clinging" to it (if you're intending to make it sound like a bad thing... that's just how it came across.)

I happen to think that a lower or milder-revving twin or thumper is *far* more practical on the street than any of the buzzy, high-revving smaller I4 engines... at least for my tastes and likes. You have to employ a rather large, big-bore I4 to get that same feeling of all the torque, all the time that you get with a much smaller twin.  The AMOUNT of torque isn't the thing; it's the feeling that you can tap it at point in the rev range and count on it. You can't do with that with smaller I4s, so in that way, twins are superior ($.02/YMMV/IMHO).

The Ducati mill is quite nice. The Guzzi mill has charm and is ridiculously simple. Neither of them can touch, say, the Strom or SV engine for the combination of practicality, simplicity, durability and price.

And in all that, I fail to see any resemblance to Harley who employs a CENTURY-proven design of high torque, low-revving, understressed powerplants in their bikes that people buy 10, 20 and 100-to-1 over other brands.

Where, exactly, are they failing, and why, exactly, should they change?

And as far as modernizing, what exactly isn't modern about a current-model Harley? Please, seriously, what is "ancient" about them? I want to know.

...

I think what people are missing is that Harley (the brand) is synonymous with Harley (the style of bike). Show me one other successful marque that has that strong distinction...?

Ducati? ok, but as you said, they're not exactly laying around in FU money, plus they just released a cruiser (the Diavel).
Aprilia? They build some kick as high-po bikes... and scooters.
Moto Guzzi? They build some nice retro standards... and a dual sport and a sport tourer.

Harley builds cruisers and cruiser-styled bikes. Period. End of story. And they rock it.

Harley the brand and Harley the style are rather unique in the market place as a fairly unified entity... and they're far more successful than any other motorcycle company - most would argue - BECAUSE of that dedication to their branded style.

Bottom line for me, I guess, is I simply fail to understand why so many people think Harley needs to change.

I also hold my point that not one single one of you guys claiming they need to build something more to your liking would drop your hard-earned cash on it, so.... moot point...? I think so.

[spd2918]

Does AMF own them again?

[ConPilot1]

You lost me. How is "clinging to a v-twin"...
1) relavent?
2) a bad thing?

snip snip snip:

Chris is feeling better again I see.    

[stevent]

Well I like them. I buy a new one every few years and enjoy putting as many miles as I can on them.

Most of the people I know ride Harley's and most of them either have another bike like a sport bike or dirt bike or grew up riding sport bikes and/or dirt bikes. granted there's a percentage of Harley riders that don't even know other motorcycles exist, but the stereotypical Harley Only pirate is for the most part just that, a stereotype.