About the Harley thing---for just a moment, seriously...

[SWriverstone]

Yes, yes, YES! The Harley-bashing is worn-out...a dead horse.  

But let's just pause a moment and ask ourselves: why does it never end? I'm neither a psychologist nor sociologist...but one thing is clear: we enjoy being around like-minded people. It's fun, we learn from others how to better enjoy OUR form of the sport, and it's validation.

So it's perfectly natural for any member of a group to be puzzled and somewhat disappointed when they see a far, FAR greater number of people participating in the OTHER group. Does this suggest we're all cows, longing to be with the herd? As hard as it is to admit it, yes---we have some herding instinct inside.

So back to Harleys: I try to avoid bashing them, but of course don't always succeed. And I bash them for the same reasons most others here do: they're obnoxiously loud, and they handle like sh*t compared to most of our bikes. (Even if they were 100% reliable---they're still obnoxiously loud and handle like sh*t.) Even the metric cruisers handle like sh*t (even though they might not be as loud). I just rode a coworker's Honda Shadow yesterday---brand new, 650cc. It was a freaking tank, and the handling was HORRENDOUS. I've ridden the giant Harley dressers too...and they also handle like sh*t.

Now to the point of my post (I know, I know)...doesn't everyone else here wonder (at least occasionally) why for 90% of the population in the USA (don't know about Canada) the very DEFINITION of "motorcycle" is "Harley?" Though Harley has a world-class marketing machine (I know because I'm in the business of marketing)...I don't think it can just be written off to good marketing.

Doesn't anyone else wonder why---when there are FAR BETTER ALTERNATIVES that are FAR CHEAPER---people still continue to buy Harleys (and metric cruisers) in vastly greater numbers than the kinds of bikes we ride? Other possible reasons include...

• most people are stupid
• people just imitate their friends w/o considering anything else
• people just want to be perceived as badasses
• people are pu$$ies and really don't want to go fast (although you don't HAVE to go fast on a better bike)
• [fill in more reasons here]

The one reason that doesn't hold water for me (in spite of HD marketing) is that people want to be rebels. This reason is utterly bankrupt from the start, because riding an HD is the ultimate act of CONFORMITY. There is NOTHING "rebellious" about riding a Harley. Zilch. Nothing. Nada. Riding a Harley instantly makes you a member of one of the largest user groups on the planet---behind only such user groups as "users of electricity" or "users of food."

Finally...perhaps a better question to ask (and I'm serious here)...what does the vast majority of the population see as a NEGATIVE about sport-touring bikes and adventure bikes? What is it about our bikes that most people don't like? (Or at least don't like enough to want to ride one.)

When one of us glides quietly by on our bike...wearing ATGATT, with hardcases and a GPS...WHAT DO PEOPLE THINK? Sure, some might think "what a geek!" But here's my theory---I believe the majority of people---when they see one of us go by---think ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Their eyes simply stare at us---the lights are on, but nobody's home. They don't know what to think.

And THAT is the point of my post. Why don't people know what to think of us?

Scott

PS - It's pouring rain here in West Virginia today...so yes, I have PLENTY of time on my hands on this Saturday (so no cracks about haven't I got anything better to do!)  

[JeffMorse]

Well, here's my take on it. This is from watching my father for years, who is a Harley guy. He's a corporate guy who as a rebellious teen got into some trouble, joined the military and straightened up. He's been in the corporate world forever, every day in a suit and tie. He's spent the last 40 years showing up at 7am, leaving at 6 like all the other drones out there (myself included). On weekends when it's time to go riding he puts on his denim jacket and his headscarf and instantly he's transported back to the days when life didn't have him by the balls. He's now a carefree guy thumbing his nose at the world with his loud pipes. He's surrounded by other accountants, doctors, engineers and other drones who all feel the same way.

I could be completely off, but that's how I see it.

[kwb377]

If you just need validation that you're smarter than someone else for choosing whatever type bike you did, then I'll go ahead and give it to you...

You're the greatest!  


 


But...

I've had Harleys, and will probably have more Harleys...I've also owned bikes from Honda, Suzuki, BMW, Kawasaki, Ducati, and KTM (and will own more of them too).

I didn't buy into the "biker" image, but neither do I buy into the "Aerostitch" image that alot of ADV/sport-tourer riders buy into.

The biggest group of "mindless sheep" and "bought into the image" riders I encountered? BMW owners.  My K1200LT was the biggest POS bike I've owned.

Reliabilty? Every bike I've owned has left me standing on the side of the road/in the woods...except the Road King. Zero problems with it in the 25k miles put on it. Honda? It ate R/R's. Ducati? misc. electrical issues. BMW? electrical issues, oil leaks, broken shifter linkage, trim/body pieces falling off/breaking, etc. Suzuki? electrical problems, oil leaks. My current '08 ZX14? 8k miles on it, and it's pouring oil from the cam cover. Harley? I had to replace a passing lamp bulb once...

Obnoxiously loud? My VFR, ST4, and ZX are louder than my Road King was.

Horrendous handling? How many miles/how much time did you put on the "giant Harley dresser" you rode? Mine handled fine, for what it was...a touring bike. And it was a helluva lot more comfortable for the wife for two-up, long distance touring.

a NEGATIVE about sport-touring bikes and adventure bikes? What is it about our bikes that most people don't like?

The holier-than-thou attitude of alot of their riders. Good thing most wear a full-face helmet, or they'd drown when it rains due to their noses being pointed so high in the air.

It's funny...the people I rode with when I had my Road King who also have Harleys...I still ride with, and I still frequent misc. HD based forums. They have no problem with me riding an ST bike. In fact, I don't ever remember any "sport-touring" bashing threads or comments.  But here, I guess some people are insecure with what others are buying and enjoying. Why? Does it affect you're enjoyment of the sport that much?

But if you need you're daily "I'm smarter because I'm an ST/ADV rider!" affirmations...go ahead.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY

[Rattlehead]

Since your looking for a serious discussion how about a few counter points on some of your opinions:

......
So back to Harleys: I try to avoid bashing them, but of course don't always succeed. And I bash them for the same reasons most others here do: they're obnoxiously loud, and they handle like sh*t compared to most of our bikes. (Even if they were 100% reliable---they're still obnoxiously loud and handle like sh*t.) Even the metric cruisers handle like sh*t (even though they might not be as loud). I just rode a coworker's Honda Shadow yesterday---brand new, 650cc. It was a freaking tank, and the handling was HORRENDOUS. I've ridden the giant Harley dressers too...and they also handle like sh*t.

They handle adequately for their intended purpose and when compared to their peers. Would you buy an F150 and then complain that it doesn't handle like a Corvette? When looked at in their class (cruisers) Harleys handle as well, or better than, probably 80% of all cruisers out there (there are a few exceptions). There are a few cruisers that do handle much better but Harleys right in there as far as the "Status-Quo" The poor handling is a Cruiser trait, not just a Harley trait.
I just took out a Dyna and although I would rate its handling as "limited" it was by no means "poor". I was more than capable of breaking the speed limit through the corners.

The noise is an owner issue, not a Harley issue. As they come from the factory Harley's are pretty quiet. It's the owners that make them loud. Unfortunately, since Harley owns the lions share of the motorcycle market, they are over-represented in the "obnoxious owner" category.

......

Doesn't anyone else wonder why---when there are FAR BETTER ALTERNATIVES that are FAR CHEAPER---people still continue to buy Harleys (and metric cruisers) in vastly greater numbers than the kinds of bikes we ride? Other possible reasons include...

"BETTER" is a subjective term. Personally, I feel my Hayabusa is better than a Wee because it's more powerful, torquier, handles better, has a much better suspension, and it looks better. That doesn't mean that you bought the wrong bike or that either one of us didn't get the best bike for ourselves based on our priorities. The same goes for Harleys. Sure, there are better handling bikes out there but what if you live in an area where the majority of roads are straight and curves have to be searched out, handling might not be such a priority? Not everyone has the same priorities and often with motorcycles, emotion is just a big of a criteria for buying. I would not buy a bike I didn't "click" emotionally with no matter how capable it was as I simply wouldn't enjoy riding it as much.


• most people are stupid
• people just imitate their friends w/o considering anything else
• people just want to be perceived as badasses
• people are pu$$ies and really don't want to go fast (although you don't HAVE to go fast on a better bike)
• [fill in more reasons here]

All possibly valid points


The one reason that doesn't hold water for me (in spite of HD marketing) is that people want to be rebels. This reason is utterly bankrupt from the start, because riding an HD is the ultimate act of CONFORMITY. There is NOTHING "rebellious" about riding a Harley. Zilch. Nothing. Nada. Riding a Harley instantly makes you a member of one of the largest user groups on the planet---behind only such user groups as "users of electricity" or "users of food."

I agree 100% True "rebels" don't buy into what's popular and walk their own way no matter what the opinion of others is. It's had to be a "rebel" on a Harley when you're bound to pass 100 other bikes exactly like yours on any given ride.


Finally...perhaps a better question to ask (and I'm serious here)...what does the vast majority of the population see as a NEGATIVE about sport-touring bikes and adventure bikes? What is it about our bikes that most people don't like? (Or at least don't like enough to want to ride one.)

Like I said, motorcycles tend to be an emotional purchase. A lot of people don't "click" with the style of a sport-tourer. The Harley crowd often describes them as "boring" and "souless".
 .......

[JeffMorse]

Some good points there for sure.

We all like what we like. Some of us are better than others at appreciating the fact that other people like other stuff, and it's okay.

I went on a ride with Dad's Harley group one day, and I got a lot of good natured ribbing about my CBR1000F. All nice guys though, and frankly after watching how some of the squids passed us on blind corners, etc.. I can see why they think sport bike guys are turds. I think the guys with loud pipes that blast em every chance they get are turds. Chances are we're both right some of the time.

But I think it's more of a 'If you're not with us, you're one of them.' kind of things.  Would be nice if we just appreciated the fact that we're all enjoying the same thing, just in different ways.

[SLK50]

H-D builds an awesome motorcycle. Fit and finish
are beyond reproach. They incorporate style into
every single part.
They simply don't fit well with how I like to ride, for now.

Harley owners on the other hand: well, where I live
Harleys are like opinions, every as*hole has one.

I appreciate the bikes. I can't buy into the "lifestyle".

[Magnarider]

They handle adequately for their intended purpose and when compared to their peers. Would you buy an F150 and then complain that it doesn't handle like a Corvette? When looked at in their class (cruisers) Harleys handle as well, or better than, probably 80% of all cruisers out there (there are a few exceptions). There are a few cruisers that do handle much better but Harleys right in there as far as the "Status-Quo" The poor handling is a Cruiser trait, not just a Harley trait.
I just took out a Dyna and although I would rate its handling as "limited" it was by no means "poor". I was more than capable of breaking the speed limit through the corners.

The noise is an owner issue, not a Harley issue. As they come from the factory Harley's are pretty quiet. It's the owners that make them loud. Unfortunately, since Harley owns the lions share of the motorcycle market, they are over-represented in the "obnoxious owner" category.

These are all VERY valid points. And speaking of handling, in some ways, the suspension on HDs is better sorted out than other options out there. Take a look at the 1800 Goldwing for example. It has the most worthless suspension setup in the world, it hardly works properly from the factory, and in some cases is assembled incorrectly from the factory. Don't want to get into too many details here but talk to any Traxxion Suspension installer and they'll know what I'm getting at. The forks are even two different lengths for Pete's sake! But does HD do things like this with their Electraglide or Ultraglide? No. They just work for their intended purpose.  

Now don't get me wrong, the last thing I want right now is a Harley because I'd wear through the pegs in 3 seasons (why I sold my Magna), but they work for what they're designed to do.

My $.02  

[SWriverstone]

Good points all! And I should point out that we've all seen so many "I'm better than you and my bike is better than yours" threads that we reflexively assume anyone who mentions/questions Harleys and/or cruisers is saying they're better. I'm not saying that at all---I have plenty of good friends who ride cruisers.

I did wonder (in my original post) why people buy Harleys when there are better and cheaper alternatives. I shouldn't have said that---sorry. (I fell into the "Im better than you" trap.) I should have qualified that by saying "better for ME." So in any of my posts, just assume that.

And one other aside: it's entirely okay to simply ask questions about the world because you want to know, period. Asking something like "Why does someone ride a cruiser" isn't analogous to saying "I rule and you suck." Wanting to know doesn't imply you think you're superior. (Sure, it might with some people, but not with me---I'm just curious, plain and simple.)

ANYWAY, one of my main questions---which nobody has adequately answered yet (not that anyone MUST answer)...is very simple: of all motorcycles sold and ridden in the US, why are there so many more cruisers? What is it about cruisers (and by extension Harleys) that so many find compelling?

As we've pointed out, owning a cruiser is the ultimate act of conformity. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Is that why so many people buy and ride cruisers? Because they want to conform?

And yes---I totally agree: the handling of a cruiser is fine for its intended purpose. So perhaps it makes more sense for me to frame the question differently...

I'm someone who wants my bike to have the broadest capabilities possible in a single bike. I want to go fast...and I want to go slow. I want to effortlessly carve the twisties...and I want to cruise in a straight line. I want to ride on pavement...and I want to ride on dirt/gravel roads. I want to carry tons of gear...and I want to carry none. And I want a riding position that---for me---let's me ride all day in comfort, which means balanced ergonomics---not leaning too far back, not leaning too far forward, not too much weight on my hands and arms, not too little weight on my hands an arms.

So I seek motorcycles that offer me all these characteristics. And they do exist (and not just mine)...but I think most people would agree that a cruiser doesn't offer the broadest range of capabilities (though I'm sure there are people who'd suggest otherwise, but we're talking about MOST people here...not those few brave souls who offroad on their cruisers).

So from my perspective...even if someone thinks they would never want to ride on a dirt road...or never want to carry lots of gear...or never want to carve the twisties at a sport pace...if a bike exists that will at least make all those things possible should they ever decide they'd like to try those things...then why not get it? Why buy and ride a bike with a very narrowly defined set of capabilities? To me that's like buying a stove with just one burner...or a house with only a front door...or a toothbrush that only works on your molars.

Yes, I know---now I'm venturing into philosophical territory regarding "the right tool for the job" versus the Swiss army knife. Somewhat. Except here's the rub---I don't think anyone could argue that a Harley softail can ride down a flat, straight road at 35mph any better than my V-Strom can. (But does it look better? I guess if you like rolling chrome Barcaloungers, then sure.)

But I digress (again). When all is said, I keep coming back to the same questions: what's "wrong" with a GS1200 or a VFR or a Sprint or a V-Strom? If your answer is "nothing," then I'd say the numbers suggest you're wrong---because VASTLY more people ride cruisers than all of those bikes combined.

So WHY?  

Scott

[SWriverstone]

Reliabilty? Every bike I've owned has left me standing on the side of the road/in the woods...except the Road King. Zero problems with it in the 25k miles put on it. Honda? It ate R/R's. Ducati? misc. electrical issues. BMW? electrical issues, oil leaks, broken shifter linkage, trim/body pieces falling off/breaking, etc. Suzuki? electrical problems, oil leaks. My current '08 ZX14? 8k miles on it, and it's pouring oil from the cam cover. Harley? I had to replace a passing lamp bulb once...

Man, it sounds like you've had some unusually bad luck with non-cruiser bikes!   Each of the 3 bikes I've owned has never left me standing beside the road once (in 75K miles or more, which granted, may just be a fraction of the miles you've ridden). My KLR, VFR, and V-Strom have all been flawlessly reliable on everything from 5,000-mile trips to 3-mile commutes every day.

I'd like to think that generally speaking, Japanese bikes are the most trouble-free...but I know that's a whole 'nother religious war, so we'll forget I said it.  

Scott

[veefer800canuck]

It's human nature. Everyone in front of you on the road is a retard. Everyone behind you is a moron, and everyone that passes you is an asshole.

So that just leaves you, all alone, as the sole cool guy with good judgement and skill.

(you = plural)

[Mr.Black]

[county]

When I started riding back in the early 70's it was a choice between Harley and Triumph and I wanted not only to go fast but also to corner fast so I went with Triumph...I sorta like Harley's for the looks of most of their bikes but I started bashing Harley's when they leaked oil in the old days and found I enjoyed it....I continue to enjoy bashing them....

[Moto Morphin Power Ranger]

I have no problem with HD. I don't like them because I have over the years had many bad and one scary dealings with the riders. I know not all the HD riders are not like that but it left a VERY bad taste in my mouth.

[Poweranger]

Most of my buddies that ride Harleys always mention how tall my Sprint is.  They say, "I like to flat foot it". So maybe cruisers are just easier to ride for most?

[DRam]

Interesting discussion.  Here's my opinion, for what its worth.

  I was 64 when I bought my CBR1000F (I turn 69 today - happy birthday to me!) and the most frequent comment I got from people of all ages was "what's someone your age doing on that.  You should have bought a Harley."  One woman actually expressed disdain for the CBR, saying that a real rider my age would have bought a Harley, not one of those crotch rockets the kids ride.  To totally accurate, she said "a real bike", but she meant Harley Davidson.

So there seems to be an attitude that 'old' people belong on Harleys, or at least on a cruiser.  Since most (and I emphasize most) of the people around here on Harleys are in the fourth decade of life and up it makes me wonder if the 'old people ride Harleys" attitude affects purchase decisions.

Then there is the purpose of owning a bike.  To take short, slow rides on warm summer evening with the wife riding pillion as opposed to a high energy assault on twisty roads.  Or, for a good many Harley riders, a long distance tour on a bike that is stable, comfortable, and can carry more than a week's worth of luggage at a reasonable pace.  That is a big Harley's forte, its purpose in life.

It may be also that Harleys remind us old farts of our youth.  After all, until the sixties it was Harley, Brit bikes, or in my extreme youth - Indian.  That look is what many consider the proper look of a motorcycle, and what they see themselves riding.  It must be admitted that to me the Harley Sportster is what a motorcycle should look like.

Last, and this isn't meant as a bash, it's merely an observation made after talking to a good many Harley riders.  Many Harley owners display ignorance about bikes in general.   A few years ago one gentleman who told that the new Harley that put out 100 hp was, as he put it, so powerful it was dangerous to ride.  No ordinary mortal could handle that much power.  One recently told me that with modifications he could bump his horse power to 120, but at that level it most likely be impossible to keep the front wheel down.  Others have echoed that opinion, have indicated that their Harley would out perform and out handle any bike on the road.  They apparently never have looked at the specs from anything but Harley.

Last, but not least, is public perception of sport bikes and their riders.  For the most part Harley riders are viewed as mature, responsible adults who ride safely and respect other occupants of the road.  Sadly, that can't be said of the  'crotch rocket' rider. I have heard Harleys with obnoxiously loud pipes, but I've never seen one doing a wheely down main street.   I've never had one blow by me from behind doing well into triple digits.  And I've never seen a you tube video of Harley riders stunting their way through traffic on a freeway (although I have seen a video of some Harley riders doing hilarious things on the Dragon's Tail).  I believe it is a small percentage of sport bikers who do those things, but they garner a great deal of attention.

So when the accountant or dentist or business owner decides to ride he or she, being somewhat careful of their reputation in society, will choose a bike that says "my rider is a mature, sensible, responsible person.  And they visit their local Harley dealer.

I don't give a rat's tail what people think, put comfort, handling and performance ahead of image, and ride a sport bike.  Well, in 1991 when my CBR was built it was a sport bike.  Now it's just like me - still darned good looking, fairly fast and competent, but kind of old and not quite up to running with the fast guys.   It's now a spot tourer.

[Kneescrubber]

Even though I have many close friends that own Harleys, I never miss the chance to say to them; Harleys suck.

[SWriverstone]

Interesting discussion.  Here's my opinion, for what its worth.

So there seems to be an attitude that 'old' people belong on Harleys, or at least on a cruiser.  Since most (and I emphasize most) of the people around here on Harleys are in the fourth decade of life and up it makes me wonder if the 'old people ride Harleys" attitude affects purchase decisions.

That's a good point. I rarely see anyone under 40 on a Harley (maybe see more under-40 types on metric cruisers?).

Then there is the purpose of owning a bike.  To take short, slow rides on warm summer evening with the wife riding pillion as opposed to a high energy assault on twisty roads.  Or, for a good many Harley riders, a long distance tour on a bike that is stable, comfortable, and can carry more than a week's worth of luggage at a reasonable pace.  That is a big Harley's forte, its purpose in life.

That's certainly true...though it's not like you can't do the same thing on an FJR.

It may be also that Harleys remind us old farts of our youth.  After all, until the sixties it was Harley, Brit bikes, or in my extreme youth - Indian.  That look is what many consider the proper look of a motorcycle, and what they see themselves riding.  It must be admitted that to me the Harley Sportster is what a motorcycle should look like.

Really good point---I'd never thought of that. I wondered for a minute if old-timers in the year 2030 will look back fondly on fully-faired bikes...but I realized, no---they'll still look back at Harleys (since they're still dominant today).

Last, and this isn't meant as a bash, it's merely an observation made after talking to a good many Harley riders.  Many Harley owners display ignorance about bikes in general.   A few years ago one gentleman who told that the new Harley that put out 100 hp was, as he put it, so powerful it was dangerous to ride.  No ordinary mortal could handle that much power.  One recently told me that with modifications he could bump his horse power to 120, but at that level it most likely be impossible to keep the front wheel down.  Others have echoed that opinion, have indicated that their Harley would out perform and out handle any bike on the road.  They apparently never have looked at the specs from anything but Harley.

I've noticed this as well. Yes, we're generalizing---of course there are HD owners who are VERY knowledgeable about motorcycles...but I've heard the EXACT same thing ("Check it out---I got the SCREAMIN' EAGLE kit for my Harley---ain't NOTHIN' gonna be as fast on the highway now---hehe!")

Last, but not least, is public perception of sport bikes and their riders.  For the most part Harley riders are viewed as mature, responsible adults who ride safely and respect other occupants of the road.  Sadly, that can't be said of the  'crotch rocket' rider. I have heard Harleys with obnoxiously loud pipes, but I've never seen one doing a wheely down main street.   I've never had one blow by me from behind doing well into triple digits.  And I've never seen a you tube video of Harley riders stunting their way through traffic on a freeway (although I have seen a video of some Harley riders doing hilarious things on the Dragon's Tail).  I believe it is a small percentage of sport bikers who do those things, but they garner a great deal of attention.

Can't argue with this either. I hate squids on sportbikes, and I hate the chainsaw-scream (very high-pitched and effeminate) of those bikes even worse than the BRAAAP! of a Harley. And this feeds into my central question, which is why nobody ever seems to be even cognizant of the fact that there are alternatives to both cruisers AND sportbikes (hence my earlier point about people who see a V-Strom go by...have no idea what to think---I wonder if they even recognize it as a motorcycle?).

On a related note, how many people here who ride sport-touring bikes or adventure bikes ever PROMOTE these kinds of bikes to others? Not that we must...I just wonder if there is a consistent sort of denial (or cognitive dissonance) on the part of cruiser-lovers that sport-touring bikes and adventure bikes even exist? Or are sport-tourers and adventure bikers in the minority simply because we choose to be (because nobody ever says "Hey---you really ought to be riding one of these!")

Scott

[Kneescrubber]

That's a good point. I rarely see anyone under 40 on a Harley (maybe see more under-40 types on metric cruisers?).

That's certainly true...though it's not like you can't do the same thing on an FJR.


Really good point---I'd never thought of that. I wondered for a minute if old-timers in the year 2030 will look back fondly on fully-faired bikes...but I realized, no---they'll still look back at Harleys (since they're still dominant today).


I've noticed this as well. Yes, we're generalizing---of course there are HD owners who are VERY knowledgeable about motorcycles...but I've heard the EXACT same thing ("Check it out---I got the SCREAMIN' EAGLE kit for my Harley---ain't NOTHIN' gonna be as fast on the highway now---hehe!")


Can't argue with this either. I hate squids on sportbikes, and I hate the chainsaw-scream (very high-pitched and effeminate) of those bikes even worse than the BRAAAP! of a Harley. And this feeds into my central question, which is why nobody ever seems to be even cognizant of the fact that there are alternatives to both cruisers AND sportbikes (hence my earlier point about people who see a V-Strom go by...have no idea what to think---I wonder if they even recognize it as a motorcycle?).

On a related note, how many people here who ride sport-touring bikes or adventure bikes ever PROMOTE these kinds of bikes to others? Not that we must...I just wonder if there is a consistent sort of denial (or cognitive dissonance) on the part of cruiser-lovers that sport-touring bikes and adventure bikes even exist? Or are sport-tourers and adventure bikers in the minority simply because we choose to be (because nobody ever says "Hey---you really ought to be riding one of these!")

Scott

Here's hoping the rain ends in WV really really soon.

[02Tac]

More so now than 20+ years ago; HD is is not a motorcycle you buy -  it is an image you buy. Can anyone say "Wild Hogs"

Here is a link to a good article on the issue
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01639620802050098#preview

The HD bikes, in and of themselves, are no better or worse than any other of the same type/style. They are however a bit over priced. Is a sticker on the tank to tell you the brand really worth the added cost? Only if you buy into the mind set.

[misanthropist]

As we've pointed out, owning a cruiser is the ultimate act of conformity. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

I definitely disagree with that.  Owning a cruiser may be a conformist act, a non-conformist act, or it may be totally neutral.

Not everybody is particularly inclined to use "motorcyclists of North America" as a baseline for assessing their own behaviour.

You might use "motorcyclists in my area", for example, or "my non-motorcycling family", or "other people my age".

If I used the first, it would be neutral...cruisers make up roughly a third of the bikes here.

If I used the second or third, it would be non-conformist...nobody in my family rides but me, and they don't distinguish between types of bike.  And cruisers are not really trendy for people my age.

Furthermore, it may simply be that a lot of people aren't that interested in performance riding on the street.  Cruisers are nice bikes...to cruise on.  Today I took my bike to the beach with my wife.  We never exceeded 40mph.  A cruiser would have been at least as comfortable as the bike we took, if not more.

They're the answer to a question that a lot of people HERE may not have.  But they may be the answer to a popular question for the general build and frankly I think they are a pretty good answer for that.

And, in case anyone would like me to really spell it out, I would say the question is this:

"What would a cool bike be to ride around on, that I would feel cool on, that I wouldn't kill myself on five minutes after buying it?"

Answer: a laid back cruiser.  You can look like a classic biker, enjoy the wind and the whole motorcycle mystique, and it's not going to launch you at a frenzied pace into a stationary object.  And if you buy a Harley, not only do you get to experience riding a motorcycling, you also get the exclusivity of the HD brand, PLUS you get to cast aside your regular image and temporarily adopt a bit of badass.

If you think about it, most of the people choosing Harleys are probably making an excellent choice.  Motorcycling is about different things for different people.  Harleys do what they do very well.


Sent from my brain using my hands