About the Harley thing---for just a moment, seriously...

[bluepoof]

Do a C14 or an SV and get back to me.  

Oh, whew, thank you, I feel better about myself now.

[Cablebandit]

Seriously?  I must be retarded, then, because adjusting the valves on my SV650S was a huge nightmare.
[/quote


Well I thought it was.  The rear was a little cramped, but it was very logical getting in there.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Well I thought it was.  The rear was a little cramped, but it was very logical getting in there.

"Logical" and "easy" are not the same thing

[Cablebandit]

They are to some of us.

[Carbonero]

Awesome. More shit for people to brag about on ST.N W00T!!!!

I still find it asinine that you have to open the engine on a modern machine. It's stupid.

[Cablebandit]

I still find it asinine that you have to open the engine on a modern machine. It's stupid.

I agree with that.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

They are to some of us.

Logically, it is possible to roll an 8,000lb boulder up the side of the Great Pyramid... I, however, would not wish to be the one doing so.

 

[Cablebandit]

You just need to find people to help.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

You just need to find people to help.

That would explain a lot of my Tech Days  

[ConPilot1]

That would explain a lot of my Tech Days  

And your "well sorted" machines.  

[Carbonero]

I went to one of Colleen's tech days. One of the items to address was a weeping oil drain plug. I looked at the bike, turned around to get some tools, rage, stuff I'd need, turned back around and she had the gas tank off, bike laying on its side, completely ready for surgery.

Funniest thing I'd seen like that.  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I looked at the bike, turned around to get some tools, rage, stuff I'd need...

oh c'mon - my bikes aren't that bad to work on!  

[Carbonero]

oh c'mon - my bikes aren't that bad to work on!  

It keeps me sharp, lets me suppress the fear, helps me keep focused.

[Carbonero]

I bring my own...

[Skee]

Since your looking for a serious discussion how about a few counter points on some of your opinions:

Quote from: SWriverstone on September 08, 2012, 11:28:17 AM

......

"BETTER" is a subjective term. Personally, I feel my Hayabusa is better than a Wee because it's more powerful, torquier, handles better, has a much better suspension, and it looks better.

 .......

I'm just catching up with this thread.  Just where do you get off saying something like that.    I'll still be riding my Wee with its 5.7 gallon gas tank long after you run out of gas and have to start pushing your Busa.   And maybe a little while later after that, I might even catch up with you...

   Sarahioush, yo're spot on.

I don't think most people can tell the difference between a cruiser and a sport bike when they are moving on the road unless they are sitting still beside one.  We are all the same to them, except maybe one of us is wearing a helmet and the other a headband.  I'm convinced that's about the only difference most folks can see.  

People ride what they know and like.  Harleys made a market out of that.   Kind of like Windows and Macs.  One might reasonably expect usage to be split 60/40 or 70/30.  But anyone who has used both knows which one is better.  Assuming they are both reliable user-friendly devices, why then does one have >95% of the market?

Personally, on a final note, I suspect I know what most people think when they see me on the road, and I don't think their jaw is dropping because my Wee is so ugly...

[Rattlehead]

I'm just catching up with this thread.  Just where do you get off saying something like that.    I'll still be riding my Wee with its 5.7 gallon gas tank long after you run out of gas and have to start pushing your Busa.   And maybe a little while later after that, I might even catch up with you...

You sure? My 2000 has a 5.8 gal tank (external pump= more tank capacity) and gets just over 50mpg on the open road. Even running 75mph it will peg the "MPG" gauge, which stops at 50 (I guess they figured no one would ever get that from a Busa   )  
Anyway, I have nothing against the Wee at all. It looks like a heck of a lot of fun to me.   I was merely pointing out that everyone has their own idea of "better (or best)" based on what they deem as important.
I'm quite happy with my big bulbous "ghetto bootied" bike and I hold nothing against anyone that likes their "ugly duckling" Wee.  

[Carbonero]

I still don't understand the people who complain that the 'Busa is ugly, or even that the 'Strom is ugly. I think they're both fine looking bikes, to the point of the 'busa being downright "good looking".

But in the aesthetics department, they've both got a LONG way to go...

ZZR1200 > FJR > Super Glide > everything else   (yes, I'm serious)

[Rampant]

Speaking as an ex FJR-1300 owner (awesome awesome bike), now an owner of an 08 dyna...

Beyond the common bits where some people ONLY do harley cause its a 'real bike', or the social aspect (which no other brand can touch by a long shot), there are some real reasons I like my harley, and cruisers in general, over sport touring or sport bikes.

1. Looks.  This is a personal thing, but while I liked the looks of the FJR, I never stopped lusting after the open, mechanical look of cruisers.  I like some naked bikes, but mainly the old 80s bikes.  Something is just 'cool' to me looking at all the parts and gears. Anything slathered in plastic is at best 'ok' looking and at worst hideous or boring. And I'm a younger guy, just 30, and I've been riding since I was 26.  So it isn't just cause 'that's what we had when we were younger'.  I seriously looked at the triumph bonneville but it was just way too small a bike for me.

2. Comfort.  And I don't just mean how my ass feels.  I actually like the ST peg placement more than forward controls on a cruiser, but I like both WAY more than pegs that are too rear set.  The other thing is weight distribution. My Harley weighs 650lbs but I don't feel it at all.  My FJR carried the weight MUCH higher (even the wee strom I rode briefly had the weight higher than my harley).  This just makes sport bike style bikes (of which most ST bikes are, being that they are built from engines/frames modified from race applications) feel unwieldy.  This was what made me eventually sell my FJR.  I hurt my back after I got it and if that thing started to tip.... I couldn't keep it from falling.  And there aren't 'crash bars' on most ST bikes.  Not like cruisers anyway. sliders aren't even close.  

And then there is the huge availability of different peg placements, floorboards, etc on cruisers, even backrests.  Stock I like the layout more on a ST bike but with a bit of $$ my harley is more comfy than anything I could get my FJR to.  And the shake?  Welcome to low frequency vibration that doesn't make my hands/feet go numb.  Every other bike I've owned that has been an issue.  Not on my Dyna.

3. Sound.  YOU may not care, but riding is an emotional experience.  Harley does a lot of the EXPERIENCE right even if you don't get the spec sheet.  The motor 'roars' to life. It vibrates and shakes.  It just feels neat, in a way my FJR and my metric cruisers never really did.  YOU might hate it  (ride a softtail), but clearly a lot of people love it.  It is part of what they enjoy in a motorcycle.  

4. Performance.  What? you say.  Ok, most people here would think "high" performance is good.  But on the STREET and not a track, and not some intense downhill slalom down a mountain, Harley performance is actually nice, if not excellent.  I'd like more power, but the delivery is just about perfect (for me).  If I weren't such a big dude, I'd probably be perfectly happy.  Harleys deliver a tremendous amount of off-idle torque.  If you aren't trying to jet around, this gives a feeling of 'effortless' power.  Remember, it is a CRUISER.  The joy comes from enjoying the ride, the feel of effortlessness, the shake, etc, is part of what makes it fun.  For ST people perhaps the fun of a bike is closer to the Sport of it, the performance, but most people (myself included) don't care - at all - about that.  We would buy a sportbike  I can enjoy my bike just loping down the highway feeling the breeze.  The big cruiser engine gives me enough power to do anything I need, easily, but not so much that I'll ever get myself into trouble or be tempted to do stupid shit like I was on my FJR.  

5. Customization.  Since bikes are about emotion for a lot of people, it shouldn't be surprising that customization & personalization is a big deal. Here Harleys just win. Nuff said.

6. The little things.  There are a lot of things that Harley just gets right.  If you don't ride a lot of cruisers, or just don't like them, then it is all wrong and you would never notice.  But from things like self canceling turn signals to the bar/peg/etc placement, sitting on most Harleys felt more comfy and 'right' than just about any metric cruiser I ever tried.  Even the ease of wrenching.  Some might say that "oh that just means they expect you to wrench on it a lot"... or it means that there is still a keepsake tradition, a shade-tree craftsman tradition in the bike that some appreciate.  I remember trying to do stuff to my metric cruisers and it was a pain in the ass.  The harley is easy.  It creates a different relationship to your bike.  And there is that emotion thing again...

The only thing that I don't like is that I DO miss the crazy power of my FJR. Never needed all of it though.  I think Victory actually has that sorted out, putting out about 80hp instead of mid 60s like the 96" Harleys do stock.  It isn't hard to boost a Harley to that level, but you shouldn't have to.  Then again, I've never really NEEDED more than the Harley gives me now only sometimes I have to downshift.


And once again there is the social aspect (which is huge, frankly) or the availability of parts everywhere.  Or that HD dealers wil move you to the front of the line IF something is wrong on a long trip, and that service stations for HD are even open on sundays on occasion (at least around here), etc.

[Carbonero]

That's a really good post.  

[DogBoy]

Much better than the one above it.